Basic questions

[TenderLovingWillow]

Hello all!

I have been reading through a lot of these topics with a lot of interest. I dont want to be understood by being mean, I just dont really know much about the mindset of GBD.

Here are some questions that I have..

When I was little, we were told that punishments were to teach us that in life, there were consequences for your actions, and that it would cost you something. We got grounded a lot, lost privilages, stood in the corner.. ect. In real life, when you do something wrong, it has nasty consequences. How do you teach this, without punishing?

Also, I was a very defiant child, and I remember doing things, intentionally, to yank my moms chain. I was rebelious, and strong willed by nature. My folks tried showing me grace, but I intetionally took advantage of that.. Tried to milk it for all it was worth. How do you parent a child like that. I have a 4 month old, that I think will be strong willed, and I am at a loss as how to properly handle him. He has so much drive already, and I want to channel that into godly ways.. But I have no idea how.

As I have read through a lot of the threads here, I see an ideal, but its hard to grasp how it would work in day to day life. I am really interested in hearing the replys.

And just in case I have not been clear.. I am not trying to question because I disagree, just am really new to it, and praying through it as I do more reading on it.

Thank you!

[CapeTownMommy]

First of all WELCOME!! I'm glad you found us!

In terms of punishments as "teaching" - I do not agree that the spankings I received as a child (and there were MANY) taught me about consequences. They taught me about getting caught.

I do impose consequences with my child, but they're not intended to make her feel bad. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that a child needs to feel bad before they'll learn anything. So for example, if my daughter draws on the walls with crayons, she helps me clean up (I do most of it because she's not even 3 yet, but she learns that messes need to be cleaned up) and I may put away the crayons for a day or so because she has proven she can't play with them responsibly. I don't mean to make her feel bad - she has many many other toys to play with and she's welcome to avail herself of any of them.

There are always consequences for actions, whether I punish her or not. That's part of life, and I can't protect her from it even if I wanted to. If she is rude to a friend, the friend may not want to play with her anymore. If she pulls on my hair while I hold her, she gets put down because it's no fun for me to have my hair pulled. If she spills food on herself, we have to wash her clothes and dress her in something else.

Don't really have advice for you on the strong willed child issue, but many here will. Hope this helps a bit! Feel free to ask as many questions as you want!

[Sparrow]

I was thinking about how I was going to explain this exact thing to inquiring (and criticizing) minds

[Codi]

I agree with Linda.

LIFE has it's own harsh consequences without us imposing ones to make them (our children) feel even worse.

Think, dont wanna wear your coat in the rain? Your cold and wet. (But we bring a coat for them because we know they will realize what a mistake not wearing it was. ) As we get older, the consequences of our actions get harder with the more serious decisions we have to make. We learn how to accept those as we get older. Kid's don't need such harsh consequences. Being cold is bad enough, who wants to go in time out because of it too? Kwim?

And I really dont have advice on the strong willed thing. But I would look at my 4 month old through different lenses. Try not to assign negative intent to such a young babe. I find that when we put labels on them, we often are creating their destiny in a way.

[TenderLovingWillow]

I have never associated "strong willed" as a bad thing.. Think of how much God could use a person who just wont give up? But at the same time, they need to be taught, and guided how to channel all that energy and drive into a good direction. My parrents did use punishments with me, but I felt never that I was unloved, picked on, or abused. When I was spanked it was never out of anger. And I was only punished severly when I was unwilling to submit, or repent. On the occasions that I learned my lesson, my punishment was either reduced, (a small pat on the bottom) or I just didnt get one.

Here is how it worked in my house, and if I ever used spanking, (still undecided) I would try to do the same.

We would have an automatic 10 min cooldown. That way mom and dad were not mad, and I had time to think about what i had done. Then, my mom and dad would come in, and explain what I had done wrong, and why consequences were needed. Me, being quite rebelious, usually argued with them, so I would get a spanking, and then my mom would hold me on her lap, and tell her that the only reason she punished me was because my character was to important for her not to, because she loved me to much.

So, maybe they had some of the ideas of GBD, but incorperated punishments?

They also redirected a lot. Repeated instructions in case we did not hear them the first time instead of jumping right to punishment. They made sure they did not punish us out of anger, and many times we would get into trouble, know we had a spanking coming, and my dad would tell us about how all of us deserve punishment for our sin, but Jesus came to show us grace, and he would not spank us and show us grace. That really helped me understand the true meaning of grace.

Some of the lessons I learned from being punished were ones I really value, but I dont want my son to feel like every time he makes a mistake he is guilt tripped, or beaten down. I really want him to understand and live grace. I am praying through the responses I have already recieved. I do think that this (GBD) is a valid parenting philosophy, and I am trying to explain it to dh.. Thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions. I think you are all great mommies!

Oh yeah, one last thing that I like about this method... It must require a ton of self control! To be frustrated with your kids, and still try to positively reinforce learning, instead of punishing out of pure frustration.

[Tengokujin]

Yes, GBD does mean that as the parents, we need to be in control of ourselves. Actually, learning and working toward practicing GBD will most likely help you grow spiritually as a parent, as you examine presuppositions and ingrained responses. It's overwhelming at times, but I feel that through what I have learned and struggled to put into practice in my home, I have a deeper grasp of the father love that God has for me.

I appreciate so much that you have posted your honest thoughts and questions. I hope you can search around here and ask more questions until things make sense for you.

Also, it sounds like you have done a great job with your baby so far if you are getting inklings that he is a determined little guy! He's letting you know what he needs and hasn't become passive due to being ignored/not responded to. Good for you!

[katiekind]

Welcome!

I think you're asking good questions and you're on the right track! Also it sounds like you had great parents, which will help you a lot. I did too. Even though my parents did spank, they didn't fly off the handle. They just were in a culture where it was considered part of good parenting. As they got older they questioned whether it was necessary and stopped spanking. The nice thing for me is that since I'm the oldest of 6 kids, I saw lots of gentle parenting.

Loving guidance of children includes lots of teaching. And teaching includes judicious application of consequences.

there were consequences for your actions, and that it would cost you something.

This is definitely a dynamic that comes into play even with loving guidance and grace-based discipline.

[TenderLovingWillow]

Part of the reason I have been asking, is because I really agree with a lot of the ideas of AP such as babywearing, extended breastfeeding, homebirth, (though my son was born at a hospital) cosleeping ect.. I also dont vax my son, and try to make the best informed decision possible.

Judah is not determined at this point in a bad way.. He is only 4 months old, so right now when he screams, it is because something is wrong, and I cant figure out what it is. But I know that I was intentionally defiant when I was a child, and looking back with a parrenting mindset, I think my parrents did their best for me. I now wonder how hard it was for them to take 10 min and calm down before coming to deal with me. I am sure it would have been easier to just beat their frustrations out. But they never did, that I can remember.

Another thing, was that spanking was something that was used when we were under the age of 8. About that time, a child starts to have the maturity to understand real life consequences. Some things when we were little, we couldnt see the real consequences, and sometimes it would have put us in danger.

One rule I never obeyed, and got spanked for disobeying, was not playing in the mud puddle out in front of our house. I did not realize how dangerous it was until a driver ran into that spot in the middle of the day, and drove right through that puddle. And the whole time I was sure my mom was out to get me.

I guess if I do use it, I would not want to use it at all after the age of 4, maybe 5 at the latest.. I do not want my kids to feel like my love is conditional on good behaviour, and I also dont want them to be so scared of "getting in trouble" that they feel like they are hiding their misdeeds from me. I want to have an open trusting relationship, and it sounds like that is the purpose of GBD.

Thank you all for taking the time to share your views with me!

[katiekind]

How I handled the issue of danger around streets was that until I could trust them to be safe around streets, I didn't let them play unsupervised in the front yard. I always kept close enough so I could physically stop them from dashing out in the street if I had ANY suspicion that they might not obey me when I alerted them that they were straying too close to the street.

I would also take advantage of teachable moments. For example when the kids were little we lived in a mountain community and there came a point when the children would notice and be sad about the occasional roadkill squirrels that we see on the road past our house.

Without being TOO heavy handed I would explain with great sadness that the squirrel had run out into the road and a car had run over it. "And that is why we ALWAYS hold mommy's hand when we are close to the road and why we must NEVER run into the road."

[TenderLovingWillow]

That is an awesome idea! I know we were always told not to run in the street, but we were not ever given a tangeble reason.. (you might get hit by a car is pretty hard to understand at 5..)

[dulce de leche]

You've gotten great responses already. For me, the goal of discipline is discipling and teaching. There is a lot of research now that shows that fear and anxiety inhibit the brain's ability to learn. So trying to teach children through pain is somewhat counter-productive.

I've also found that my children are learning to make the right choices because they want to do what is right, not because of a self-centered fear of punishment. So choosing not to hit the baby is because it would hurt her--not because we would hit them back harder, or do something else unpleasant to them.

[ArmsOfLove]

Another thing, was that spanking was something that was used when we were under the age of 8. About that time, a child starts to have the maturity to understand real life consequences.

So many of the obstacles you're expressing and the beliefs you have held to were taught to you--but they aren't really rooted in reality Like this one, for instance. Children are just developing pre-logic around age 8, they have logic at 10, and don't have reason until age 14. So spanking a young child is really just hitting a child who lacks understanding.

I am also amazed at how much children learn without pain. It's not required for learning And when we impose a punishment on a child who has been through an experience we actually take away from the inherent lessons in that experience. It's called piggybacking and makes the child less likely to learn anything.

I invite you to spend some time at my site www.aolff.org and especially check the Quick Reference section for practical ideas.

It's mostly helpful to learn about how God designed children to learn and what they're going through at each age and stage. It doesn't make it okay, but it does make it understandable, and helps with making a plan for addressing it

[Tuesdayschild]

Originally Posted by *Mrs_Chris*

1. Another thing, was that spanking was something that was used when we were under the age of 8. About that time, a child starts to have the maturity to understand real life consequences. Some things when we were little, we couldnt see the real consequences, and sometimes it would have put us in danger.

2. One rule I never obeyed, and got spanked for disobeying, was not playing in the mud puddle out in front of our house. It was kindof a blind spot for people driving on the road, and was almost in the road. I didnt realize how dangerous it was until a drunk driver ran into our fence in the middle of the day, and drove right through that puddle. And the whole time I was sure my mom was out to get me.

First of all,

The journey into GBD is a wonderful one - I hope you have fun learning and that you find it a wonderful enrichment to your relationship with your son It sounds like you had lovely and loving parents, who have given you a great base from which to build. What a blessing ITA that you should check out aolff.com and maybe also http://goybparenting.com/

In relation to the 2 points above:

1. I kind see what you're getting at, but spanking isn't a real life consequence, is it? If there isn't a real life bad consequence to what the kid is doing, why impose one? And if there is (like getting run over by a car) why set them up to be in a dangerous situation? As a committed GBD-ing parent I *would* say this, but I don't believe that a spanking teaches a consequence any better than a consequence does (how do they learn real life consequences? By experiencing them!). It is our job to keep our children safe - by stopping them doing the things that are dangerous proactively, rather than reactively, kwim?

2. I think that the fact that you needed more than one spanking kind of proves the point that it doesn't work And when did you learn? When you saw the real life consequence. See what I mean?

Maybe you also see yourself as having been 'defiant' and 'rebellious' because those were labels you were given as a justification for punishment Maybe you were simply behaving in age-expected ways. Just a thought.

Hi there - I'm reading this thread with interest because I'm also new to this and wanting to learn. I don't come from a Christian background so feel like I'm guessing my way along at the moment, and would like to be a bit better 'armed'.

I'm wondering how people handle outright disobedience? I'm thinking for example:

- Miss Four was told not to go behind church where there are no adults, and then not long after went around there.....

- Miss Two is asked to come and put her nappy on, and runs away

Just a couple of basic examples from my everyday life! Is there a consistent method people use to deal with this or is it case-by-case, child-by-child? I just feel quite lost and never sure what to do or how to react, and then get too angry.

[Tuesdayschild]

to you too!

yes, there are ways to handle that, will ahve to BBL though as the school run calls...

Again though - check out those websites listed above in the meantime. And try to think of GBD as both a mindset and a toolbox