Gentle Christian Mothers Community
 
Random Quotes from Wise Mamas

~* Please help keep GCM free by using our
Amazon.com affiliate link. Thank you! *~


Go Back   Gentle Christian Mothers Community > Specific Issues > Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public*
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
A public forum.
Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:

23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2005, 12:09 PM   #1
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

After much prayer and contemplation, I feel that God is calling me to speak out amongst the women in my MOPs group about the laud and magnification they have been giving Michael and Debi Pearl's writings. It greatly concerns me that a number of women in the group use TTUAC methods on their children (such as switches and spraying children in the face with a hose) beginning at only a few months old. After last week's moms night out, even more concern about Help Meet advice to women who could end up in abusive relationships and think that God advocates them staying and putting up with that.
Please help me with this letter... I don't want to push them away, I want to draw them to scripture in its correct form and God's real intention for our marriages and children:
am approaching you because I know you best out of the group of the women who routinely discuss books by Michael and Debi Pearl. It greatly disturbs me that their writings are being promoted in MOPs, when so many of their teachings are founded on manipulation and ignorance of scripture.
On their website, Debi Pearl quotes a number of things which I find to be extremely damaging and not at all supportive of a true Christian relationship in a desire to serve God. For instance, in on section a woman writes that her husband is verbally and emotionally abusive, has had numerous affairs, and is hurting her daughter, yet Debi Pearl states that the woman needs to stay with her husband because God hates all divorce. To the contrary, while God hates divorce, he also states that infidelity is a reason for divorce in the bible. Debi manipulates scripture to say that God will not save the woman's child if she leaves her husband.... how audacious to declare that God, who created the earth, will not save a CHILD if her mother leaves her abusive husband! As a child of an abusive home, I can testify that in time abuse often turns towards the children as well which I am sure that is not God's pleasure. In addition, it says that the husband is an unbeliever. While Debi declares that the woman must stay with her husband because it is God's will, God in scripture says that he wishes for believers to not be yoked with unbelievers, but if they are, they should remain only if the unbeliever is willing. If the unbeliever is abusive and having extramarital affairs, what show of desire is there to remain yoked with the believer? She goes on to say that if you get divorced and remarry, God will not be in your marriage. How ignorant is she to proclaim that God will no longer love the woman and bless her life because she has left an abusive home?
Later in the answer to the letter, Michael Pearl chimes in saying that it is only abuse if the husband hits his child and a red mark remains for at least two hours. TWO HOURS. Let's say it only remains for an hour and a half... oops not abuse. I honestly think not, especially having been a victim of abuse I can assure you the emotional effects of abuse last long beyond the physical implications. He then says to send your husband to jail (something that is not likely to happen... physical abuse of a spouse or child rarely resorts to imprisonment), and to spend the time he is in jail writing love letters and having steamy phone calls. Honestly, if you have had need to send your husband to jail for beating you and your child, how does one think that God would desire you to stay with that person? He also says "If your abusing husband fully understands that you have the power of the law behind you, he will learn to keep his hands in his pockets" which is exactly the opposite... those who have been convicted of abuse in the past are the most often repeat offenders!
One of the most horrifying recommendations the Pearls make I believe is this:
"But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, "What if he doesn’t repent even then?" Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce—always, forever, regardless, without exception." First off, the average stay of a person who has raped a child in jail is THREE YEARS. That's it. THREE YEARS. Pedophiles are also extremely highly likely to be repeat offenders. And how would accepting that man back into your life benefit you or your children? How would you ever trust your husband? How would forcing your child to face their rapist daily be good for them? I think it would be the exact opposite... The Lord says he HATES those who commit offenses such as rape, so why do the Pearls know "better" than the Lord?

It also disturbs me that repeatedly Debi refers to her husband as righteous when in the bible, God is who is referred to as righteous, not people. No person is righteous without sin in this world, especially her husband.

When it comes to children, there are many things about their idea of "training" children (which is bibically unsound and distorts scripture from it's original text meaning).... one of their comments on their site makes me physically ill:
"Please give me a description of the switch or rod of which you so often speak. I wish you could send me one so I could see it.
The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for "¼ inch supply line." They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos."

This information is found under BABIES. Hitting your BABY or CHILD with SUPPLY LINE is abuse. Cut and dry abuse. In another article regarding children, he goes on to say that if you don't "discipline" your child the way that he states, not only will you have unruly whiny children who hate you, but they will not love God or be saved.

While spanking your child and she cries and is upset about it (very obviously if you are hitting your child with supply line, they are going to be in pain and not happy about it), Michael Pearl says this:

" When she screams or flees, calmly follow through by physically subduing her. Sit on her, if you have to, and slowly explain that you will not tolerate this resistance. Explain in a normal tone (She will eventually stop screaming and listen) that you are going to give her, say, five licks for the original offense and an additional two licks for the fit. Slowly apply the five licks, counting out loud. When I say slowly, I mean with a thirty second gap between each lick and a calm explanation to the screaming child that you are not the least impressed except that you are going to spank harder and she still gets the additional two licks plus one more for her ongoing screaming. When you have finally arrived at five well- anticipated and carefully counted licks, say, “OK, your spanking is over; that is the five licks you got for hitting your brother, but now I must give you two more for trying to run away.” Give her one lick and say, “Now, that is one of the licks for running away; you have one more coming.” Give the second lick, and then calmly and slowly explain that all her licks are over now, except for the one additional lick she incurred for continuing to scream during the spanking. After you have finished, tell her that you are going to let her up now, if she stops screaming, otherwise you are going to give her one additional lick. If she stops, or at least makes a great effort to, then you have won. You may never have to go through this horrible time again. But, if she is continuing to scream in defiance, you have the option of continuing to warn and spank, or of ceasing here with a parting warning: “Next time you better not run and throw a fit; for if you do, you will only get more licks and harder ones.” "

So now it goes beyond their idea of "discipline" to punishing your child for not liking being punished! Abuse compounding abuse does not make any child happier or more willing to receive the abuse, it just further breaks their will given to them by God.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 12:19 PM   #2
Sanveann
Rose Trellis
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,861
Sanveann is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

I think your letter sounds great!
__________________
~ Alexis, mom to Matthew, 4, Eli, 2, and Natalie Rose-Thérèse, due July 14
Sanveann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 03:50 PM   #3
Tulip_Plus_3
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

I'm glad you're doing this!

In the section about welcoming an abuser back to your home, please mention that you know a woman (me) who's grandfather sexually molested her. Any woman who welcomes her abusive husband back to her home is only opening the door to having her grandchildren abused.

Also, my folks would give us kids extra hits if we resisted when we were spanked. This did not cause us to love our parents more, it didn't cause us to love God more, it did not make us more Godly or save our souls. It made us hate our parents. It DEFINITELY provoked us to wrath, albeit a silent wrath because we learned we dared not express any emotion in our home other than happiness. I do not recall all the reasons why I was spanked. I do recall hating my parents because of it, and can still feel the hatred festering within me because of it. No, I don't hate them now, I've forgiven them (to myself, they won't discuss it), but I do recall how it felt to hate that much.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 04:27 PM   #4
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

While growing up in a non-Christian home, my mom felt it was best to not divorce my dad for "the kids sake".... well... what it led to was me witnessing my dad abuse his wife (my mom)... to the point where she would have bruises over her entire body and be crying but then denying it to everyone else even though everyone knew what was going on, and as I became older (by junior high), he started coming after me and because my mom's will was so broken by that point, she started siding with him rather than defending me to avoid him beating her as well... I ended up beaten repeatedly, emotionally and verbally abused almost daily, and to this day, I have held onto the bad aspects of seeing a poor relationship and struggle with my relationship with my husband and repeating the tendancies of my parents! On top of that, my parents were so prone to anger while I was growing up that I was "spanked" for every infraction they thought of... almost always with a leather belt with a metal belt buckle on bare skin. I have tried talking to my parents about it but my mom just defends herself by saying she knows it was wrong, but it was necessary. She also now blames me for my dad abusing me saying if I had been a "good enough" daughter it wouldn't have happened. The Pearl's philosophy tries to instill that "not good enough" mentality in all women in children IMO.... setting them up for abuse and poor self esteem for their entire life.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 06:55 PM   #5
TulipMama
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,800
TulipMama is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

A stylistic thing. . . More paragraph breaks will make it more readable and less likely for people to skim over it. . . *hug* Good job.
TulipMama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 07:16 PM   #6
Korabeth
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

That is a great letter. My advice, which you can take or leave, would be to add why LOVE is what God has called us to do. Quoting some scripture. Not that you have to convice them in this letter, but i know that a very convicing argument for me was that children are called to obey their parents, but not to idolize them. Sometimes I think that is what the Pearls have done. They have idolized what the role of parents should be.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 07:32 PM   #7
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Korabeth, I agree.... I need some scripture to add to the paragraphs to back up what I am saying in rebuttle to the Pearls advice.

Do you know of some verses I should add? I have verses in my head, but I can't remember where they're found.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 09:34 PM   #8
CelticJourney
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,354
CelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

One thing that I always found helpful at the Ezzo debate board is to point out that many mothers read this type of writing with a 'mother filter' on. I can't tell you how many time someone had come to that board supporting Ezzo only to be shocked at the parts they had read over and mentally discarded. Because they have filtered out and forgotten the worst of the garbage, they feel free to recommend the book to others
__________________
Elizabeth

"Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep

Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19
CelticJourney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2005, 11:48 PM   #9
at home momma
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 38
at home momma is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinzluvsGJ
such as switches and spraying children in the face with a hose
[/quote


kind of off topic here. i know the pearls recommend the hose thing to spray off a child's bottom when they don't potty train when the parent would like. where do they recommend spraying in the face with a hose. that is the first i had heard of that one. thanks!

at home momma
at home momma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 12:02 AM   #10
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

I don't know.... the woman (the leader of our mops group) may have adapted it from the recommendation to spray the bottom... she said she got the info from the TTUAC and sprayed her son in the FACE whenever he wet his pants.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 12:51 PM   #11
Soliloquy
Administrator
 
And then there's the roses ...
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the mountains
Posts: 41,636
Soliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korabeth
That is a great letter. My advice, which you can take or leave, would be to add why LOVE is what God has called us to do. Quoting some scripture. Not that you have to convice them in this letter, but i know that a very convicing argument for me was that children are called to obey their parents, but not to idolize them. Sometimes I think that is what the Pearls have done. They have idolized what the role of parents should be.


I agree. I also applaud you for writing this letter. I had no idea that the rest of the Pearls' writing was so horrendous, as well as TTUAC!!
__________________
Lisa, 44. Married to My Hero for 20 years! Survivor of very severe aplastic anemia. Living with PNH

Firmly Planted.
"Since you have accepted Christ Jesus as Lord, live in union with him. Keep your roots deep in him, build your lives on him, and become stronger in your faith, as you were taught. And be filled with thanksgiving." Col 2:6-7

Moderator in Theological & Doctrinal Issues, Drawing Closer, Bible Study, & Educating Our Children

Mom to 5 wonderful kids!
G - 13 , S - 11 ,
F - 9 , J - 7
Surprise Baby L - 1
Soliloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 01:16 PM   #12
at home momma
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 38
at home momma is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinzluvsGJ
I don't know.... the woman (the leader of our mops group) may have adapted it from the recommendation to spray the bottom... she said she got the info from the TTUAC and sprayed her son in the FACE whenever he wet his pants.



yeah, that isn't what they recommend. they actually recommend that you tell the child 'you are too big to get wiped up like a baby, so from now on we will wash you off with a hose." or wash them off in the shower(cold i am sure). they do say that it shouldn't be presented as a punishment but as a 'you are big now, so......." personally i just wait til they are ready. how in the world is her kid going to associate being sprayed in the face with wettin himself?

at home momma
at home momma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 02:08 PM   #13
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Okay.... here are the changes I have made so far-- feedback please!

Leah,
I am approaching you because I know you best out of the group of the women who routinely discuss books by Michael and Debi Pearl. It greatly disturbs me that their writings are being promoted in MOPs, when so many of their teachings are founded on manipulation and ignorance of scripture. It can be so easy to read through something with "mom glasses" on and glaze over things that we may not agree with and forget they are even there if we find something in it that "makes sense". However then advocating that information as a whole w/o recognizing it is there could cause serious problems.

On their website, Debi Pearl quotes a number of things which I find to be extremely damaging and not at all supportive of a true Christian relationship in a desire to serve God. For instance, in on section a woman writes that her husband is verbally and emotionally abusive, has had numerous affairs, and is hurting her daughter, yet Debi Pearl states that the woman needs to stay with her husband because God hates all divorce. To the contrary, while God hates divorce, he also states that infidelity is a reason for divorce in the bible (Matthew 5, Matthew 19). Debi manipulates scripture to say that God will not save the woman's child if she leaves her husband.... how audacious to declare that God, who created the earth, will not save a CHILD if her mother leaves her abusive husband! As a child of an abusive home, I can testify that in time abuse often turns towards the children as well which I am sure that is not God's pleasure. In addition, it says that the husband is an unbeliever. While Debi declares that the woman must stay with her husband because it is God's will, God in scripture says that he wishes for believers to not be yoked with unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6), but if they are, they should remain only if the unbeliever is willing. If the unbeliever is abusive and having extramarital affairs, what show of desire is there to remain yoked with the believer? (1 Corinthians 7:15-16) She goes on to say that if you get divorced and remarry, God will not be in your marriage. How ignorant is she to proclaim that God will no longer love the woman and bless her life because she has left an abusive home? (Romans 8- Nothing can seperate us from the love of Christ)

Later in the answer to the letter, Michael Pearl chimes in saying that it is only abuse if the husband hits his child and a red mark remains for at least two hours. TWO HOURS. Let's say it only remains for an hour and a half... oops not abuse. I honestly think not, especially having been a victim of abuse I can assure you the emotional effects of abuse last long beyond the physical implications. He then says to send your husband to jail (something that is not likely to happen... physical abuse of a spouse or child rarely resorts to imprisonment), and to spend the time he is in jail writing love letters and having steamy phone calls. Honestly, if you have had need to send your husband to jail for beating you and your child, how does one think that God would desire you to stay with that person? He also says "If your abusing husband fully understands that you have the power of the law behind you, he will learn to keep his hands in his pockets" which is exactly the opposite... those who have been convicted of abuse in the past are the most often repeat offenders!

One of the most horrifying recommendations the Pearls make I believe is this:
"But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, "What if he doesn’t repent even then?" Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce—always, forever, regardless, without exception."

First off, the average stay of a person who has raped a child in jail is THREE YEARS. That's it. THREE YEARS. Pedophiles are also extremely highly likely to be repeat offenders. I know another Christian woman whose grandmother welcomed her husband back into her life after he had raped his children, and in repeat, he raped her (his granddaughter). Even if you would be lucky enough to keep the man out of your life while your children grew up, welcoming him back would open up your grandchildren to the abuse! And how would accepting that man back into your life benefit you or your children? How would you ever trust your husband? How would forcing your child to face their rapist daily be good for them? I think it would be the exact opposite... The Lord says he HATES those who commit offenses such as rape, so why do the Pearls know "better" than the Lord? (Galatians 5 says those who commit acts such as rape will not inherit the kingdom of God)

It also disturbs me that repeatedly Debi refers to her husband as righteous when in the bible, God is who is referred to as righteous, not people. No person is righteous without sin in this world, especially her husband. God's righteousness covers us through His gift of grace as we follow Him, but that does not make us without sin or Righteous in God's eyes by our own actions. (Romans 3:10-12, 6:23)

When it comes to children, there are many things about their idea of "training" children (which is bibically unsound and distorts scripture from it's original text meaning).... one of their comments on their site makes me physically ill:
"Please give me a description of the switch or rod of which you so often speak. I wish you could send me one so I could see it.
The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for "¼ inch supply line." They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It’s a real attention-getter. Michael demonstrates its use in our new Seminar videos."
This information is found under BABIES. Hitting your BABY or CHILD with SUPPLY LINE is abuse. Cut and dry abuse. In another article regarding children, he goes on to say that if you don't "discipline" your child the way that he states, not only will you have unruly whiny children who hate you, but they will not love God or be saved. I assure you, no where in God's plan of salvation does it say you must have been hit as a child in order to become a saint in His kingdom and experience his salvation. Rather God says to love our neighbor as ourselves (Luke 10) and whatever we do to the least of these we do also to Him (Matthew 25). Puts things into perspective... lead our child in grace and love to the Lord showing them forgiveness and gentle guidance to what they can do right, or whipping them mirroring as our Lord was crucified and despised. I doubt any adult would wish to be whipped if they did something displeasing to another person, nor do I doubt any God-honoring Christian would seek to whip our Lord.

While spanking your child and she cries and is upset about it (very obviously if you are hitting your child with supply line, they are going to be in pain and not happy about it), Michael Pearl says this:

" When she screams or flees, calmly follow through by physically subduing her. Sit on her, if you have to, and slowly explain that you will not tolerate this resistance. Explain in a normal tone (She will eventually stop screaming and listen) that you are going to give her, say, five licks for the original offense and an additional two licks for the fit. Slowly apply the five licks, counting out loud. When I say slowly, I mean with a thirty second gap between each lick and a calm explanation to the screaming child that you are not the least impressed except that you are going to spank harder and she still gets the additional two licks plus one more for her ongoing screaming. When you have finally arrived at five well- anticipated and carefully counted licks, say, “OK, your spanking is over; that is the five licks you got for hitting your brother, but now I must give you two more for trying to run away.” Give her one lick and say, “Now, that is one of the licks for running away; you have one more coming.” Give the second lick, and then calmly and slowly explain that all her licks are over now, except for the one additional lick she incurred for continuing to scream during the spanking. After you have finished, tell her that you are going to let her up now, if she stops screaming, otherwise you are going to give her one additional lick. If she stops, or at least makes a great effort to, then you have won. You may never have to go through this horrible time again. But, if she is continuing to scream in defiance, you have the option of continuing to warn and spank, or of ceasing here with a parting warning: “Next time you better not run and throw a fit; for if you do, you will only get more licks and harder ones.” "

So now it goes beyond their idea of "discipline" to punishing your child for not liking being punished! Abuse compounding abuse does not make any child happier or more willing to receive the abuse, it just further breaks their will given to them by God. (Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. ) I assure you, I did not like a moment of being beat as a child and I protested every moment of it. It did not make me so that I would love my parents or God more, it physically and emotionally scarred me. It made me hate my parents... as I became a teenager I made every effort possible to be at home as little as possible to avoid the beatings.

You may say "well I read the book and took the good and left the bad/what I didn't agree with/what didn't make sense," and that's fine, however recommending it to another new mother, she may then go and read it, and take what you thought to be bad about it! When recommending a book that claims to be Christian yet is so poorly in ignorance and opposite of scripture's true meaning is setting someone up for spiritual damage not only possibly for themselves, but also for their family. While you may not agree with all aspects of my style of parenting, there is a distinct line between advocating a different manner of parenting/relationships and advocating the potential for abuse.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 07:27 PM   #14
CelticJourney
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,354
CelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond reputeCelticJourney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

I think you need to introduce the materials a little more in the opening. 'I am concerned about their condoning of physical, emotional and sexual abuse, their advocating methods that most consider child abuse and their drastic misuse of scripture to support their views' I would even give each section a heading to keep it straight, at least until you are ready to send.
__________________
Elizabeth

"Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep

Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19
CelticJourney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2005, 11:35 PM   #15
Treenahurricane
Rose Trellis
 
Struggling with life
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the grass grows green
Posts: 1,972
Treenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond reputeTreenahurricane has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Drafting a letter to my MOPs group about Pearls

Okay...
I changed the sentance in the first paragraph to read:
Quote:
It greatly disturbs me that their writings are being promoted in MOPs, when so many of their teachings condone physical, emotional and sexual abuse, they advocate methods that most consider child abuse and they drastically misuse scripture to support their views.
And added this to the end of the letter:
Quote:
Please believe me that I am not accusing you or any other mom in our MOPs group of abusing her children or allowing such horrible things to happen in their marital relationship, however my concern over the promotion of the Pearls teachings has never left my mind lately especially when thinking of the fact that it *could* lead to a bad situation with any family in our group unintentionally.
__________________
Mom to Dinosaur Girl 12; Princess 10; Buddy 8; Squeakers 6; & Mr Man 4, Stepmom to Cowgirl 6!
One in the arms of Jesus 9/18/12 and a second January 2013


Treenahurricane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07 AM.


A variety of opinions and ideas are shared on GCM. Personal experiences, suggestions, and tips found here are in no way intended to substitute for medical counsel from a healthcare professional. Always use your own good judgement and seek professional advice when in doubt about a health concern.

Amazon.com affiliate link

Copyright 1997-2017 by Gentle Christian Mothers™
An alternative-minded, evangelical Christian community supporting attachment parenting and natural living.

Do not post content elsewhere.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/

Some smilies created and copyrighted by Mazeguy.
Some smilies and avatars created and copyrighted by flowermama and children -- do not use elsewhere.

Soli Deo Gloria
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ~ Romans 16:27 (KJV)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.