Spinoff...not being angry?

[MarynMunchkins]

A question for the reformed among us...

I know that all the "experts" say you should never spank in anger. I never figured out how to do this. I might not be angry with my child, but I *was* angry that they had disobeyed or ignored directions and I was having to correct them. And frankly, I still feel that way a lot of the time. Tonight Ana about eating dinner. I was that she was pitching a fit over dinner (which was leftovers and she ate and LIKED last time! ) It was insulting and incredibly annoying. Now, I didn't spank her - I sent her to bed early, and she fell asleep by 7:00. But I was certainly angry over the behavior.

If I feel that way now, wouldn't I have felt that way when spanking? And wouldn't I have used the spanking as an outlet for my anger? I just don't see how you can separate those things. :/ Does it have to do with the idea that certain emotions are "bad" and shouldn't be felt? Like I shouldn't have been angry in the first place? I dunno...the whole thing just confuses me...

All right...help me figure it out...

ETA: I just reread this and wanted to clarify. I didn't send Ana to bed because she didn't want to eat. She was clearly tired and it was making it difficult for her to function. I sent her to bed because she was tired.

[ArmsOfLove]

This is from my article on the history of spanking

The first time the idea was put forth that spankings are never to be given in anger but rather in love it was as the advertising pitch for the book “Spencer Spanking Plan” that put forth the instructions for spankings of husbands and wives within marriage for the increasing of marital harmony.

I, personally, find it very icky that this tag line has come to be spoken of spanking children

"Be ye angry and sin not" -- sounds like that's what you did. I still get angry at a lot of the stupid and annoying and rude things my kids do -- a lot. But, when I still spanked, I called it "righteous anger" and "being angry at the sin the child committed" and I was able to vent by spanking whichever child. I don't care WHO it is, Dobson, Pearl, whoever, I am convinced that unless you are seriously deranged, you cannot hit anyone or anything without feeling at least the smidgen of the emotion of anger. Or, more twisted yet, an aroused emotion. Because when I *did* allow myself time to cool off, I could not hit. I actually handled the situation in a more GBD manner. Also, anger feeds on itself. You don't spend your anger after a spanking -- it simmers still.

I really think that people do feel anger when they spank -- they just call it what you and I did --- anger at the sin.

[CelticJourney]

I think the 'do not spank in anger' line sums up the problem with spanking. If you're not angry, you can most likely clearly see a better way to deal with the problem than spanking.

I actually think it is possible to spank without the anger, but there is a cost. In some cases, you have to detach yourself and "turn off" part of your emotional self. In some cases you are trying so hard to be "in control" or act a certain way that you are less than honest with your children about your real feelings regarding an incident. This cheats them out of seeing that you FEEL, too, and seeing an example of how to express and deal productively with negative emotions. In a lot of cases, it just sets parents up for exploding anger or harsh, reactive punishing down the line, IMO. There will, almost certainly, come a time when your efforts to repress your own emotions will fall short, and you will find yourself meting out punishments with the powerful wind of your anger/hurt blowing behind them.

In some ways, I find it just as disturbing when parents continually issue physical punishments without expressing any upset... what does this teach children about physical violence and physical force/dominance? That's it's perfectly fine to do it as long as you are calm and pleasant? We, as a society, take a harsher view of criminals who commit violence in a calculating, premediated way... why is it just the opposite for parenting? (spanking or swatting occasionally out of frustration is condemned by all camps of parenting, but consistent, "controlled", calculated hitting is taught and encouraged in punitive camps.. :/ )

Also just want to point out that the whole "don't spank (or punish) in anger" has some other inherent flaws... like the fact that young children aren't going to make the connection between a deed and a punishment unless they come pretty close together. That doesn't allow for parents to follow the advice (which is typically given by punitive experts) to calm down or pray or collect themselves before they punish. And even for older children who understand what they are "waiting for" it is a really weird thing to teach... "Just go to your room and wait until I'm calm enough to hit you...!!!" huh? Spanking, and--IMO--punishing in general, takes away from the lesson that could be learned b/c the child is either dreading what is to come, or stewing/crying/hurting about what has just happened. Most people who were spanked have many memories of the actual act, and very few memories of the "lesson" that was supposedly being taught by it.

If I feel that way now, wouldn't I have felt that way when spanking? And wouldn't I have used the spanking as an outlet for my anger?

My guess would be yes and yes.

Does it have to do with the idea that certain emotions are "bad" and shouldn't be felt? Like I shouldn't have been angry in the first place?

YES. At least in my experience, this is exactly what it is about.. Christians are only allowed to "feel" angry about the sinfulness of the world. All other angry feelings are wrong and should be suppressed, gotten rid of, and preferrably not felt to begin with. :/ Some people take this in the direction of "it's ok to be angry at your children b/c they are sinning..." but of course we as parents are still admonished not to let our anger affect our actions/reactions toward our kids. Our options are to feel it and let it out in the form of fully justified (but "controlled") spanking/punishment, to feel it and stuff it b/c it's wrong to express or ACT on the anger, or not to feel it at all. Is there not a more honest yet emotionally healthy option??

And we wonder why so many adult Christians struggle to have balanced, emotionally healthy relationships with other adults??

Originally Posted by elcollins

I think the 'do not spank in anger' line sums up the problem with spanking. If you're not angry, you can most likely clearly see a better way to deal with the problem than spanking.

My thoughts exactly!

I remember times when I spanked my daughter and didn't *feel* angry with her but I spanked b/c she had disobeyed and I thought that's what I had to do to ensure that she wouldn't do it again and that she would grow up to be a good Christian person. The hard part for me was it became a slippery slope - I found it more and more difficult to ONLY spank when not angry, b/c let's face it, kids make you mad! Looking back, I realize that I was trying to detach my angry feelings at what my child had done, in order to be able to punish her "not in anger". And also looking back(didn't realize this at the time), as I grew more detached emotionally from my *daughter*, it was harder and harder to NOT be angry with her and spank in anger. It truly caused a vicious cycle within me.

Amanda

[Mother of Sons]

I have only seen one person spank without being angry. It was on the Mary Tyler Moore show. Ted took his son into the office and spanked him for some disobedience. I remember thinking "Oh! That's how it's supposed to be done!"

Although I can honestly say that I have spanked without being angry. It was when I was tomato staking (thought I invented it) Long before i'd been on the internet. Anyhoo, I would wait for the tiniest tiniest infractions and I'd spank. I wasn't mad because the disobedience was so incredibly minor but I thought I was doing the right thing

I would say that most parents do not spank without anger and the ones who do on a regular basis are scarily detached.

[TulipMama]

I started out spanking the "right" way. Never in anger. Always controlled. Always with the love and right things said before/after/whatever. Consistently.

And it was still wrong.

I am at a place in my life where I can be a lot more honest with myself than I could even just a year or two ago. Calm and consistent spankings with my very determined toddler (yes, doing it the "right" way) was extremely unhealthy for him and for me.

And over time, you know what? The adversarial nature of the relationship with my children grew. My children whom I loved deeply and for whom I would make any sacrifice, were stirring up more and more anger in me.

It got to the point where I felt like my primary tool was spanking. I can see that the spanking (Christian spanking, remember, done "right"--> I was the poster child for that!) led to so much anger in me, building up. And then post-partum depression hit, and my calm, controlled, collected self was completely stretched to the limit.

And I was unprepared for it. And my anger was coming out. The children triggered that anger so easily. And, yes, I spanked in anger. THAT was one of the keys to me stopping spanking before I came to the point of seeing it inconsistent with the Bible and God's grace.

This is one of faults I find with punitive parenting teachers.

They are teaching something that is taking a loving parent/child relationship and injecting an action that breeds antagonism in that relationship. They are persuading parents that they must control and physically cause pain in order to be a good parent. They are giving the parent an outlet for anger. And while that anger may not be there initially, it will be there eventually because of the dynamic they are creating.

And if should a parent be less than perfect? If a parent struggles with depression or health issues or *gasp* sin? These teachers have set the parent up for spanking in anger, losing any self-control, and leading a loving parent to a high-risk abuse situation.

I believe all teachers/parents who promote spanking should read this article, Avoiding Millstones.

And at the least, if someone is going to advocate spanking as discipline, it should only be within the context of a close, personal, discipleship relationship--never through tv, a book or the internet.

They are teaching something that is taking a loving parent/child relationship and injecting an action that breeds antagonism in that relationship. They are persuading parents that they must control and physically cause pain in order to be a good parent. They are giving the parent an outlet for anger. And while that anger may not be there initially, it will be there eventually because of the dynamic they are creating.
And if should a parent be less than perfect? If a parent struggles with depression or health issues or *gasp* sin? These teachers have set the parent up for spanking in anger, losing any self-control, and leading a loving parent to a high-risk abuse situation.

TulipMama,

You hit it! That is exactly how I have seen things happen, too, and those are my 2 biggest issues with punitive parenting teachings. ( the adversarial philosophy which actually LEADS to more punishment and power struggle, and the guilt complex it lays on parents... blaming every parenting problem on the fact that we are sinners, too. ) The anger actually grows out of the spanking and from the frustration of trying to control and not being completely able to. I think the idea that we are SUPPOSED to control and the effort we put into making that happen is one of the key things that starts the downhill slide. We "deserve" their obedience and compliance--it's our right to be in control. This is the dynamic that's so hard to get rid of. It still creeps back into my mindset--even though I'm not spanking anymore--and the old irritability starts rising to the surface. Of course, it displays itself in different ways now rather than spanking, but it's still damaging to both me and my sons.