Random Quotes from Wise Mamas |
br>
|
Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-28-2005, 06:29 AM | #1 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
It is heartbreaking
It was my turn for bathroom duty last night during our 3 - 4 yo Children's programs, in which I am a leader. I had 2 little guys to take to the bathroom (we usually go as pairs, but we were short leaders and I left the door open and didn't go all the way in). There is this little boy, who is a really nice little kid. He does not act like a stepford child (which, really, is almost weird for our church), and he's pretty outspoken (again, kind of different for our church) and smart and just plain a good boy. So, I never expected . . . . .well, he pulled down his pants to use the urinal last night, and I saw a deep, circular bruise (SO obviously the mark of a paddle), which must have been at least a few days old. It was clear from across the room. It must have been a doozy when it was "fresh". I've seen bruises like that on my children who have really hurt themselves and gotten one of those deep, horrible purple and blue bruises, and a bruise like that would have looked like his after about a week (you know, that deep brownish color with yellow, etc.).
Now, I'm pretty sure that everyone in our church spanks. According to the teaching, it's expected and demanded of by God. They even cite "the blueness of the wound" verse as proving that you NEED to leave bruises; that a spanking should HURT, otherwise, what's the point? And good behaviour is SO very important to these parents. I know that the mom has been carrying around a book by Lisa Whelchel, and is a fan of Dobson (kinda like the rest of the church). But, still, I never expected this. . . . . There is nothing I can do. I saw a child as young as 2 with one of those real deep blue and purple bruises, once when I was changing her diaper. That one was not as apparent as to the source of the hurt, and I thought to myself that surely she must have fallen or something. It must have been. No one could do that to a child (and this was back when I thought I had to spank my children *shudder*)! I don't know what's happening. I know these parents love their children, I know they want the best for them. But, how can one SEE something like that, and feel good about it? My mom came to visit us after one of our children was born. She actually went to church with us. Now, I'm not a big fan of my mother (um, well, we have issues), but even she remarked that the kids (mostly the older ones she saw) were "weird, like little robots." She said they even talked "funny and stiff". You know, I think I would rather have all the problems in the world with a little smart-*ss, than have my kids be "little robots". (where's that huffy "hmmph" emoticon?) Ok. Ramble time over. . . . . |
04-28-2005, 06:44 AM | #2 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,941
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
That really is so very sad. Just a couple of comments (my 2Cents worth):
1) Are you SURE it was from a spanking? Lately, my ds has been so rough and now that he's running, falls and gets hurt ALOT. And many times I think "sheesh, if someone saw this bruise on his bottom/leg/back, they would call dss on me!" and the bruises are only from him falling (he falls onto his bottom) onto a block or a car, or falling off his little chair or something. Now granted, they are small and not as "gruesome" as you described, but, for the benefit of the doubt, could it have been where he got hit with a ball or fell? 2) If you are sure it was from a spanking, in some states, if you are in a position where a child is in your care (ie: teacher, doctor/nurse, child care provider, etc.) you are REQUIRED by law to report signs of abuse. But there is such a fine line....I mean, would you really be considered a "caregiver" if you were helping out as church; would you want this family investigated for abuse, especially if it could have just been an injury. I am so sorry you had to see that...and so sorry for that little boy, for whatever reason he got the bruise. Also, it makes me that people would twist scripture to mean that bruising their child is "God's will". I'm sure that makes God very sad. just give that precious boy lots of encouragement and love and pray that his parents will change. That's all I really know for sure.
__________________
Kristen<br />Wife to David<br />Mom to ds (8-17-03) and dd (12-21-04)<br />Jesus is my bail-out. The Holy Spirit is my stimulus package. His blessings of family and friends are my recovery acts. "Those who have been required to memorize the world as it is will never create the world as it might be." ~Judith Groch |
04-28-2005, 06:54 AM | #3 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
Quote:
|
|
04-28-2005, 07:17 AM | #4 |
Deactivated
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,796
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I don't know about the structure of your church. If it were in my church, it would be very hard for me to do--but I would go to the elders. I might even take a copy of Rebecca Prewett's "Avoiding Millstones."
This is not a spanking vs. non-spanking issue. This is an issue of loving, well-meaning parents taking the teachings of the elders in the church to the point that it is obviously abusive. And while I'm sure no one would *want* to hurt their child in a way that leads to death--it *can* happen. The elders need to be aware that people are hearing and applying their teaching in a way that is abusive. |
04-28-2005, 09:10 AM | #5 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 34,571
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
Quote:
I will echo a previous poster, in some states you are required and legal liable to report abuse. Because of dh's profession, I could never let obvious abuse go without risking both of us facing prosection or law suits.
__________________
Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
|
04-28-2005, 09:21 AM | #6 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I always thought that spanking was legally considered abuse when there was bruising. My mom was ready to press charges on my grandfather when he spanked my younger brother & left bruises. And we were regularly spanked, just never wounded.
|
04-28-2005, 09:32 AM | #7 | ||
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I totally agree with TulipMama. I grew up in a place that was rabid in its support of spanking, but there was an line not to be crossed. The vast majority of punitive teachers would say this as well. Leaving deep bruises on a child is totally inexcusable no matter which parenting philosophy someone is following.
Churches still have a good bit of protection in our country but we must do everything in our power to prevent them from becoming safe havens where defenseless children are battered and abuse is taught systematically. The members of the congregation have more power to change this than anyone else, IMO. Adults--and especially church leaders--MUST be called into accountability, and if this can't happen within the family of believers, then where else is it going to happen? If you are convinced that you are seeing bruises that resulted from spanking, please... PLEASE voice your concerns to the church leadership, the parents themselves, or CPS. If you approach the church leaders, maybe we can find some "support" info for you about the potential ill effects from deep bruising? (duh! you'd think that would be obvious.. *sigh*) Quote:
Quote:
I dunno.. maybe that's too passive-aggressive? But you never know... parents might be a bit more restrained if they know someone is going to comment or ask them to explain the bruises. Childcare providers are required to ask. *taking a deep breath* This just made me so upset to read.... I got spanked by a teacher in the first grade and had an actual blister on my bottom for about a week. No one defended me or told the teacher that she went too far. I remember that so clearly and have such strong emotions about it.... I can't imagine being a child who is blistered and bruised on a regular basis. Just think about what that little boy's life is going to be like, and about the burdens he will carry as an adult... and about the fact that he may well turn around and do the same thing to his own children some day. Heart-breaking... Whatever you do or don't do, I hope you can be a loving influence in the lives of the kids and parents around you. I know it's very hard to be the voice of dissent within your church family. Praying that God will give you wisdom and guidance. |
||
04-28-2005, 10:19 AM | #8 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
Well. This may be passive-aggressive, but I've been thinking. I sent up a quick prayer (again). . .
I know these people. I know they want the best. The mom is a little, well, seems a bit detached sometimes, and aloof and, well, a snob. I've tried talking to her before in a the lobby of our church (and other places), and she snubs me. She literally turns from me and walks away. I have tried to find out if I'd done anything wrong or anything, but, as far as I can tell, I didn't. She's just that way, according to many, many people. No problem. . . I guess I'm not in her "class". Now, before you think it's personal, it's not just me; like I said, many other people have said things, and I don't really care. But. . . I cannot go talk to her. That avenue is closed. I do not want to cause a problem or division. There are MANY people in the church that would take exception if I said anything (it's that, let the parents do what they think is right and don't interfere, thing). BUT, these parents are in that Sunday School class I told you I was in, and was having such a problem with. You know, the one I was trying to avoid in all my wimp-i-ness. SOOOO, this answer popped into my mind, as I was sending up one of those frantic "Please, God, just TELL me!" prayers (again). I assume it's an answer. I will go to that class (they are still discussing the subject of spanking). I will ask the questions, of the pastor teaching the class, "What is the line between spanking and abuse? Do we leave bruises? And how 'bad' should these bruises be? How long should they last? What is OUR duty to following the law about NOT leaving bruises? What is our duty in leadership positions here at church in following the law that states that anybody in a leadership postion must report any suspicious bruising?" The other thought came that I should just go to him, maybe before class, and ask these questions. Anybody have any other ideas? Especially about more questions, or what type? Or should I just "not worry about it and for Pete's sake, do NOT get involved!" as dh says. |
04-28-2005, 10:45 AM | #9 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I think that might be a good plan.
I must respectfully disagree with your dh. It's your duty as a fellow human being to worry about it. And I would consider it a duty to get involved. |
04-28-2005, 11:35 AM | #10 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I think you have a good plan, too. I agree with the pp, you should get involved. Better a safe child than an unoffended mom.
|
04-28-2005, 11:41 AM | #11 |
Rose Garden
sisters!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunniest place on Earth and hotter than Phoenix! Might as well be sitting on the sun...
Posts: 35,302
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I would have repeorted it. Its your duty I can understand its hard but still.
though for having to witness that. and I hope this comes out right but I personaly could have no part of a church that treats its members (yes the children are members) like that. Deanna
__________________
Deanna wife to Shawn since 2001 mom to a young adult Cecilia , tween Margaret and three I will hold one day in heaven. |
04-28-2005, 12:19 PM | #12 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
Oh my! I am just so sad after reading your post! I cannot imagine seeing something like that on a little child! I wonder what his life must be like at home, is it full of saddness and crying??!! He must hurt so much from that bruise! Please say something to someone or do something... you may be this little boy's only hope... he might be crying out to God at night begging for someone to help him!! I know you are not sure what to do, but please do something. His parents may not understand that the way they are spanking is so harmful to their child's body. I know this is so hard for you!! *HUGS*
|
04-28-2005, 12:45 PM | #13 | |
Deactivated
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,796
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
Quote:
And I think after the class, pray, breathe deep, and privately go to the pastor and say "The reason I asked is because of something I saw. . ." |
|
04-28-2005, 12:59 PM | #14 | |
Deactivated
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,295
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I
Quote:
|
|
04-28-2005, 05:51 PM | #15 |
Deactivated
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,574
|
Re: It is heartbreaking
I think you have a good plan. But please, report this.
As someone who was abused as a child - we've called the police many times but it didn't work (Daddy was a cop himself) please step in for this little boy. I really think you or someone should express concerns about what's going on in your church. It sounds to me like that little boy isn't the only one who is a victim of abuse there. Are there any other non spanking parents? |
Bookmarks |
|
|
X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information | |
---|---|
|
|
More Information | |
Template Usage:
Phrase Groups Available:
|
Included Files:
Hooks Called:
|