I thought I Babywised...

[L-Boogie]

This is just a small note to possibly help encourage grace toward people who say they "babywise" their babies...

When I was pg with dd1, I was only 21-22yo and didn't really have any friends who had kids, but a friend I had once been close with gave someone else a copy of "babywise" to give to me. I didn't really know of any other resources. I read the book and thought it made sense except for the parts I thought were "extreme"> When I read the CIO advice I "I would never ever do that" and the marriage advice made me
Then dd1 was born and I tried to make sure she was "taking full feedings" and whatnot and several weeks later started on a (no-cry) routine for naps and she slept like a dream - STTN at 8-10 weeks. I thought this was because of BW. Oops. And if anyone ever asked, I would have said she was BW, when in reality I never let her cry more than a minute or two. I went and nursed or gave her a paci when she awoke at night. I never did any playpen time unless she was okay with it and instead of smacking her hands, I touched them firmly. She also nursed for 16 months . I have heard of other friends of friends who would recommend BW but also took a much more "middle of the road" sort of approach. All this to say, I know most of you have had horrible horrible gut wrenching experiences with BW, but please try to always lend grace. You never know what someone may mean when they say they "babywised"

FYI with dd2 she's been high needs from day 1 and I now I bf on cue and cosleep and babywear

[MudPies]

i have a friend IRL who did similar. she did a routine, not a schedule, fed baby when he was hungry, didn't CIO. she took BW as a starting point and modified it. If only she wasn't punitive but I am glad she was never a strict babywiser. so i do try to find out how much people follow it (by the letter or just use some of the ideas), then I try to introduce AP where they are at.

[ArmsOfLove]

I think most people would try to question what that means to someone who mentions it--or how strictly they do it. The problem is that those who say they did BW but did a very low key modified kind of BW like you mention don't know that they aren't really doing BW and then mention it to someone who is feeling desperate and they go get a copy and do it to the letter and suffer for it It's like my friend who said they did CIO but to her that meant that around 9 months they let the baby fuss for a minute or two and then they would sleep and didn't fuss anymore at night. I asked her to PLEASE not encourage CIO because that is NOT most people's experience. When I told her what other people meant by it she was

and the real problem with Ezzo is when he has his programs in churches and the culture around it is extreme His Christian versions of things are also horrible because they justify and argue for only doing those things and he backs is with Scripture

I don't think most people's concern/frustration is with those who might casually mention BW as much as with the BW program itself.

[L-Boogie]

Originally Posted by MudPies

i have a friend IRL who did similar. she did a routine, not a schedule, fed baby when he was hungry, didn't CIO. she took BW as a starting point and modified it. If only she wasn't punitive but I am glad she was never a strict babywiser. so i do try to find out how much people follow it (by the letter or just use some of the ideas), then I try to introduce AP where they are at.

lauren likes this

I'm glad that you try to introduce people to AP where they are at... I know that I've read bean-dip posts that say to only offer info to those who ask, but if someone (especially someone I know and respect) had up and offered me some AP stuff, or especially GBD stuff I might have switched paradigms when she was a baby and not used the time-out chair.

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

I think most people would try to question what that means to someone who mentions it--or how strictly they do it. The problem is that those who say they did BW but did a very low key modified kind of BW like you mention don't know that they aren't really doing BW and then mention it to someone who is feeling desperate and they go get a copy and do it to the letter and suffer for it It's like my friend who said they did CIO but to her that meant that around 9 months they let the baby fuss for a minute or two and then they would sleep and didn't fuss anymore at night. I asked her to PLEASE not encourage CIO because that is NOT most people's experience. When I told her what other people meant by it she was

and the real problem with Ezzo is when he has his programs in churches and the culture around it is extreme His Christian versions of things are also horrible because they justify and argue for only doing those things and he backs is with Scripture

I don't think most people's concern/frustration is with those who might casually mention BW as much as with the BW program itself.

ITA and I appreciate you articulating this. What I said was not meant to be a judgment against those who are horrified by Ezzo. He is one of the people I have to thank for the adversarial mindset that I am now trying to uproot.
Actually, I need to say a big to Sorta Crunchy for her Ezzo series and how it opened my eyes to what BW really is, including all the icky parts that I managed to gloss over. Now if I could only go back and recall if I recommended it to anyone

[katiekind]

L-Boogie, whenever I meet someone that says they're using Babywise or they used it, I imagine them to be doing, or have done, what you described. It keeps me sane, and really is quite often the case, especially if they have a normal community around them.



Where I worry is when there's a strong Ezzo-ized community around them that has normalized a more extreme approach.

He is one of the people I have to thank for the adversarial mindset that I am now trying to uproot.

And yes, that's the other problem...even if you modify it, he does tend to plant some unhelpful seeds that take root in a new parent's mind.

oo....I see you're in Bellingham. Years ago that was a big Ezzo hotspot. I wonder if it still is?

[mellymommy]

Thank you for offering up your experience. I will keep this in mind the next time I encounter BWers.

OT...I met my hubby in Bellingham, WA! So beautiful up there!

[SweetCaroline]

it seems like - IME- most younger moms i know BW..but what that means is that they feed on schedule..and do everything *opposite* AP style. like dont co-sleep, dont babywear, would never dream of extended breastfeeding. since Ezzo really dogs on an AP approach to parenting, Babywise is kind of its own mindset and viewpoint
i dont think i know anyone personally who took BW to its extreme, like the kind you hear about.

[mellymommy]

Yeah, the BWers I know are very anti-AP. They talk about how they don't ever want to be martyrs and not have a life *just* because their baby cries. But, TBH, I only know a handful of BWers.

It is a blurred line between having grace and having discernment in this arena.

[luvinmama]

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

I think most people would try to question what that means to someone who mentions it--or how strictly they do it. The problem is that those who say they did BW but did a very low key modified kind of BW like you mention don't know that they aren't really doing BW and then mention it to someone who is feeling desperate and they go get a copy and do it to the letter and suffer for it It's like my friend who said they did CIO but to her that meant that around 9 months they let the baby fuss for a minute or two and then they would sleep and didn't fuss anymore at night. I asked her to PLEASE not encourage CIO because that is NOT most people's experience. When I told her what other people meant by it she was

and the real problem with Ezzo is when he has his programs in churches and the culture around it is extreme His Christian versions of things are also horrible because they justify and argue for only doing those things and he backs is with Scripture

I don't think most people's concern/frustration is with those who might casually mention BW as much as with the BW program itself.

Yes, this was my experience with most babywisers--they did a modified version of it, but then recommended it to other people who did take it to the extreme, thus making a very poor recommendation to a very vulnerable person. My old church was largely into Ezzo and other similar stuff--and unfortunately, many of my friends turned their backs on me when I decided to NOT use his stuff and speak against it mildly from time to time. For whatever reason, Ezzo is a sacred cow that can't be touched by many.

Originally Posted by katiekind

L-Boogie, whenever I meet someone that says they're using Babywise or they used it, I imagine them to be doing, or have done, what you described. It keeps me sane, and really is quite often the case, especially if they have a normal community around them.



Where I worry is when there's a strong Ezzo-ized community around them that has normalized a more extreme approach.

And yes, that's the other problem...even if you modify it, he does tend to plant some unhelpful seeds that take root in a new parent's mind.

This was my experience, for certain.

L-Boogie, thank you for bringing this topic up. It is with much greater sensitivity and discernment that I approach this topic of babywise with future mamas I run into. It has been a very near and dear topic to me, but has also caused me a great deal of pain as I navigate how to gracefully share my thoughts on Ezzo.

[L-Boogie]

Originally Posted by katiekind

L-Boogie, whenever I meet someone that says they're using Babywise or they used it, I imagine them to be doing, or have done, what you described. It keeps me sane, and really is quite often the case, especially if they have a normal community around them.



Where I worry is when there's a strong Ezzo-ized community around them that has normalized a more extreme approach.

And yes, that's the other problem...even if you modify it, he does tend to plant some unhelpful seeds that take root in a new parent's mind.

oo....I see you're in Bellingham. Years ago that was a big Ezzo hotspot. I wonder if it still is?

When I had dd1, I lived in California... I have only met one other mom who has even mentioned BW to me here in Bellingham. You see lots of baby carriers and NIP in this community these days. My experience might be different, however, if I went to a larger, more conservative church, idk.

Originally Posted by mommy5

it seems like - IME- most younger moms i know BW..but what that means is that they feed on schedule..and do everything *opposite* AP style. like dont co-sleep, dont babywear, would never dream of extended breastfeeding. since Ezzo really dogs on an AP approach to parenting, Babywise is kind of its own mindset and viewpoint
i dont think i know anyone personally who took BW to its extreme, like the kind you hear about.

Before I started reading blogs, I had never heard of AP, cosleeping or ebf except in one extreme case where I was a nanny for a family where their 2.5 year old would tug on her mom's shirt and throw a fit wanting "nay nay". This child had her own candy drawer It was a really permissive, unhealthy dynamic. So this was my only impression of AP. Then when I read Ezzo describe people being "child led" and how bad that is, I thought

Originally Posted by mellymommy

Yeah, the BWers I know are very anti-AP. They talk about how they don't ever want to be martyrs and not have a life *just* because their baby cries. But, TBH, I only know a handful of BWers.

It is a blurred line between having grace and having discernment in this arena.

I think the mamas here have wonderful discernment What I'm trying to speak to is attributing a positive intent. You know how you feel about Ezzo teachings, but that doesn't mean you have to assume that people who mention him in a positive light actually adhere all of the things he promotes. At very least, it could help you not get too fired up and be able to dialogue

Originally Posted by luvinmama

Yes, this was my experience with most babywisers--they did a modified version of it, but then recommended it to other people who did take it to the extreme, thus making a very poor recommendation to a very vulnerable person. My old church was largely into Ezzo and other similar stuff--and unfortunately, many of my friends turned their backs on me when I decided to NOT use his stuff and speak against it mildly from time to time. For whatever reason, Ezzo is a sacred cow that can't be touched by many.

L-Boogie, thank you for bringing this topic up. It is with much greater sensitivity and discernment that I approach this topic of babywise with future mamas I run into. It has been a very near and dear topic to me, but has also caused me a great deal of pain as I navigate how to gracefully share my thoughts on Ezzo.

I am so so sorry for the way you were treated regarding your parenting beliefs! That is so hurtful. I think people are very dogmatic about Ezzo because his wording and attitude is super manipulative. "If you don't agree with me, then you're permissive, child-led and that is so awful for your poor child. God help you if you have a high needs baby! It's all your fault!" It doesn't help that there are people like me who have only seen permissive AP dynamics IRL.

[katiekind]

that doesn't mean you have to assume that people who mention him in a positive light actually adhere all of the things he promotes. At very least, it could help you not get too fired up and be able to dialogue

That's an extremely good point, and a wonderful strategy for promoting conversation. Because it is likely to be true, and because it's helpful to assume that we're all basically on the same team, which is also usually true.

Thank you for bringing out that point so well.

[SortaCrunchy]

Originally Posted by L-Boogie

Actually, I need to say a big to Sorta Crunchy for her Ezzo series and how it opened my eyes to what BW really is, including all the icky parts that I managed to gloss over. Now if I could only go back and recall if I recommended it to anyone

Thank you.

I thought I was a BW too, but after talking to luvinmama when dd was firts born, realized I was not at all. I packed baby on me and did not CIO. The only thing I did was have a routine.