The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

I got a No Greater Joy article sent to me today by an elist. It was called "The Flavor of Joy". I agreed with much of the article. Here are a few snippets.

(Of course, I don't agree with his definition of train.)

(The "new order" sounds like something from Brave New World.)

(He freely admits that his techniques are based on psychology: "Small children can be molded by proper application of good technique and good psychology")

(speaking of a grumpy child)

Anyway, he spent alot of time talking about what a chaotic home looked like. And it's exactly what my home looked like when I tried to use his methods. :shrug And all his references to how the home atmosphere should be, I agree with. Parents infused with joy. Parents not letting the negative moods or misbehaviors of their children affect their joy. Parents as the loving, firm authority in the home. I totally agree. He never mentions spanking, but he talked about his "training" technique, and how it's helped so many parents gain control over the chaos. I just don't understand how people can jive these two ideas, behavioristic training and a joyful home. I couldn't do it. But I can have control and establish a firm authority in my home without using his training system. I can set routines and boundaries and have the same peaceful home without spanking anyone. And my children love and respect me, just like he says his do. I just don't get why it's all or nothing with him--use his technique or lose your home to chaos.

When I talk to people who love the Pearl's, and I say I don't like them, they always throw his "happy family" stuff in my face. You know, like it's so good. :rolleyes And I agree with it all except for his obscure references to spanking them for every offense. That's when people say, well, I just take away the good and leave the bad. But the bad is so wormy. It sneaks in and bites you when you least expect. It tarnishes everything he writes with a grimy film that's hard to see, but you can feel it. Like the floor in the McDonald's playroom. :sick2

I don't know why I am writing this. Just getting my thoughts out so I won't dwell on them all day.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

:tu I think this is an excellent post. I found the same thing in my home too....less chaos without Pearl.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

yeah I found it interesting talking to our Pastor and his wife. They had almost the same thoughts as we did with a lot of issues... it was weird! I thought, wow we agree with so much, how can they be Pearl followers?
It boggles the mind sometimes.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

It can't be all bad, or no one would read it. :shrug He does have a lot of good stuff mixed in with his "train them or else" garbage. Of course, Satan quoted Scripture to Jesus, so I don't really think that means a whole lot. ;)

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

That is exactly why I believe they are so dangerous to families and children. They inject a small amount of truth, enough to let your guard down, and then they sneak in a lot of poison.
I may be a bit radical here, but I believe that satan delights in the garbage coming from the Pearls. It confuses children about Who God really is, and twists the truth in a way to make it seem believable. I've heard many moms speak of how discouraged they get about their own families when the read Pearl stuff (the Truth of God never is never discouraging, but encourages us to do better) and of course damages children immeasurable in so many physical, psychological, and spiritual ways. He (satan) is the master liar and wants nothing more than to cripple the potential of Christian families.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

The bad is the *how* you are supposed to get the good--the bad is supposed to produce the good. I don't think it just sneaks in--I think it's foundational. And that is why I don't think you can jive his methods with his guarantees :(

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

I agree..that is what I have seen by reading his stuff (to learn about his method...not to use it).

*Good* psychology is not what he is describing...he's a Behaviorist, which is only a train of thought in psychology, but not a mainstay in psychology. :no2

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Pearl is no better as a behaviorist than as a Christian; any modern behaviorist will happily tell you that his techniques are not suitable for training anything with a brain.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Reminds me of the serpent in the Garden. . ."did God not say. . . . ?" It's the same sort of twisting. Satan knows Scripture as well as any angel (he used to be one, after all), and what can sound very good and logical on the surface is crawling with maggots when you peel away the cover. I tend to view the whole Pearl thing sort of the same way. . . either this man, himself, has been so deceived that he cannot know any better, or he is actually the deceiver.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Along a different train of thought.....

Something else that struck me today while I was reading Easy to Love, Difficult to Dicipline. The Pearl's website and articles (I am unfamiliar with their books) always feature disfunctional families who are at their wits end contrasted with a picture of their perfect family. I get the impression, reading their stuff, that their family is so great, so perfect, so Godly. Then when my own family fails to live up to that standard, I feel like a failure and I am angry at the people in my life that don't measure up--me, my kids, my dh. Becky Bailey, on the other hand, uses examples of her own mistakes and how she learned from them. She doesn't give you any rosy pictures of what a good family should look like....well, if she does, it's not in the context of perfection and perfect obedience. And everything comes back to MY behavior, not my kids. So following her discipline strategies leaves me feeling good about my kids, and even myself. :)

This really struck me from Chapter 2, pg 40:

I think this is so true. We set ourselves up to fail by having expectations of what the world should be. How many women are in miserable marriages because they think their dh should be romantic or help around the house or whatever else they read in a romance novel or saw on tv or saw their father do? The Pearl's answer is to use physical pain to produce behaviors that line up with what they think their world should be. When someone tries to use their training, and they don't get the results that the Pearls write about, then they are "overcome by the feeling of being powerless to run the world according to [their] plan." At least that's what happened to me. (I wasn't a Pearl follower or anything, but I tried the spank-for-every-offense method.) But GBD has taught me to let go of trying to control everything. I have to let go of my expectations of what my life should be and instead see it for what it is. I don't have compliant, easygoing children. God gave me firecrackers! I can choose to view that as exciting rather than exhausting. It's a choice I have to make moment to moment. My own emotional state is in a much healthier place with GBD than with the Pearl's. I think it all boils down to learning to control myself rather than learning how to control my children.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

wow! great thoughts Desiree!!! :tu I didnt even think about how Pearl uses other families mistakes vs his own :td You are right, it is really drawing and of course then you feel like a failure because your home doesnt look like that! :/

thats such a good thought! :tu I need to remember that as well!

I think Crystal has it somewhere what a woman wrote about Pearls being addictive like porn? Its kind of a long the same lines as what you are talking about :tu

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

I think I skimmed that article once. Wasn't it in her blog? Yeah, just like porn, it sets you up to want a fantasy that isn't compatible with reality. It makes you resent the reality, and the people in your reality. Not good. :no2

Thanks for the :tu Irene. Sometimes I feel like my overworked brain can't comprehend anything or articulate anything. But I need to hash things out either in type or in conversation or I keep thinking about it and it drives me nuts! It feels good to know that I did communicate effectively. I don't know how Crystal does it. :phew

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Desiree, I really appreciated your post as well! Very well-written and you made some wonderful points! :tu

You know, some of the Pearls stuff is so incredibly awful that I just can't view any of their writings through any sort of positive lens.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Even within their positive stuff, there are a few recurring themes that bother me.

One is the emphasis on happiness. I don't think that a peaceful, happy home is a bad thing, but I think you can overemphasize the importance of everyone being "happy" and having a "good attitude" all the time. Healthy, functional families have times when someone is upset, angry, discouraged, etc. Those are real emotions that are part of the human experience and children need to learn from their parents/families how to deal with the realities of life's not-so-fun moments.

The second is that he openly admits that he is seeking to condition. I find that very manipulative and icky.

The third is the nature of his stated goals. He is very blasse about not seeking to raise godly children during the training process, but instead to have children who immediately, unquestioningly obey. :td His stated goals all revolved around ease of life for the parents, convenience, control. Examples of what he strives for are adults being able to converse/visit for hours without any interruptions from their young children... Adults being able to take children anywhere anytime and leave whatever they wish lying about with the knowledge that they will not have to deal with curious little hands touching anything.... Even the "good" goals that I don't have a problem with (like a peaceful home, orderliness, kids who resolve their own conflicts, etc.) can become a problem b/c he sets those goals in a place of higher importance that the children themselves... and b/c the motivation behind the goals is a very selfish, adult-entitled mindset.

I just started going through his book with a critical eye--several years removed from my experience of being negatively influenced by it... and I'm currently making a list of his stated goals/examples to contrast with my own, and documenting the number of times he names "happy and obedient" as the required state of being in which children should exist. :/ Those are 2 things we cannot and should not seek to enforce in our kids: their emotions and their heart response.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Excellent thread and many thought-provoking posts! :tu

I think it was in one of the Created to Be His Help Meet threads where someone said trying to get the few good bits from the Pearls is like going through a dumpster to get a few good bits of food. In both, you need to wade through a lot of icky disgusting stuff to find the few good bits, and in the end, neither satisfies. :sad2

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This is where I have a difficult time (not w/Pearls, but w/ me). How do you keep your joy? How do you not let negative moods, and especially misbehaviors affect your joy? I have prayed and prayed about this, but it is still so difficult for me. Especially when I'm having trouble with depression/anxiety. Many times the only way I can describe my despondent mood is "It's like I've just lost all my joy" Any advice?

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

DeAnn,

I know how you feel. :hugheart I am like that too. I am not a naturally bubbly, fun person. I am a loner, and kind of moody. Becky Bailey's book has helped me not take things personally or get upset. I chant, "This moment is as it is." Once they've done something wrong, no matter how disappointed and frustrated I am, being a nasty grump about it isn't going to solve anything. It's already happened. I must move on. Learning this has helped alot. Before I read any discipline books, I prayed and prayed for God to deliver me from my negative moods. But it wasn't until I actually learned what TO do, that I could overcome. Praying about the problem, without focusing on solutions, turned my thoughts towards all the wrong things I was doing which kept me more depressed and miserable. To keep my joy, I MUST be focused on God and His attributes and provision, not my sin. I also must have tools to use when my children do those things that drive me insane.

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I think joy is all about having the proper perspective. :) It's not about feelings - I certainly have bad days and feel angry, sad, and frustrated. But I can realize that, even in the midst of those feelings, God is in control. There are lots of situations that are overwhelming and I wonder how I can possibly survive making it through. :O But recognizing that it's not about me or what I can do pulls me through it.

:hug

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:popcorn

I've lost all zest for life. I don't want to do anything any more, I don't want to go anywhere. . it's just too difficult and not worth it. I don't even want to go to the grocery store. . . if they're not knocking down racks of wine (actually, :giggle -- he didn't mean it), they're running all around and totally humiliating me. How can one have joy when it's all correction, correction, correction, distraction, arguing (from them), whining (well, both of us), crying (mostly me), etc.? It's nothing but argue, attitude and anger here. How does one hold on to the joy?

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

There are several thoughts that come to my mind about joy.

One is to have a proper definition of what joy really is, which I think Mary touched on (not just feelings). Also--along the same lines... to have realistic expectations of how/where joy should manifest itself--what it really *looks like*--in our lives. This is the problem with the Pearls. They talk a lot about joy and peace, but they make it synonymous with a superficial sort of happiness and circumstantial calm. Life with kids isn't always going to be calm, orderly, controllable, and heartwarming--although it sure does have it's amazing moments! :heart (Heck, life in general isn't always going to be that way--kids or no!)

Another thought is that joy is a decision. I know, technically, it's a fruit of the Spirit--and that's the best way to view it and the best way to pursue it... by pursuing God. But that's easy to write on paper and sometimes really hard to put into practice for an overwhelmed Mom. I, personally, came to a point where I had to (1) Accept the challenges--the reality--in my life (like what heartofjoy quoted from Becky Bailey) and (2) Become determined to embrace them, address them, and actively work towards solutions.

I don't necessarily agree with everything Dr. Phil says.. but I read one of his books at a time when I felt a lot like you described, Chris3jam, and the biggest thing I took away with me was to stop being a victim of my own life... to step back and restructure the way I viewed my circumstances, my surroundings, my family/husband/kids, my past, etc. I really grew a lot in terms of choosing a mindset that would help me succeed instead of paralyze me and discourage me. It's tough.. it meant letting go of stuff that I was really, really angry about... it meant a lot of internal honesty... it meant that if I wanted something to change, I had to take responsibility for it without also owning resentment for having to do it myself. It meant I decided to keep trying, keep working, keep changing... for as long as I needed to. The next step from there was finding better tools and learning how to use them. When my family gets to the point that life is

(and we've been there before.. :hugheart ) that's when I know I need to do something differently on a practical level. Most recently, it's been firmer boundaries. In the past it's been things like more structure, more connecting, and better time-management on my part.

Another thing that has helped me is to find one or two positive things that bring a breath of fresh air into my life every day. At one point--probably the lowest point I've ever been at in terms of discouragement--I went out and bought a bunch of potted plants (mostly hanging, leafy, vibrant green stuff b/c it was dull winter outside)--and I put hooks in the ceiling and hung them all over the house. Seeing that life, the beautiful leaves, the promise of spring, etc... gave me a tiny pick-me-up each and every day and, though they were all dead 6 months later cause I started forgetting to water them :O , it helped me through a tough time. I also find that looking back at old pictures of my precious babies has that affect on me. When I'm feeling less than kind-hearted toward my 4yo, I can pick up his baby book and let my heart be softened and lifted up by precious memories.

Where there are biological issues at play, they MUST be addressed as what they are. While I believe that positive mental attitudes can contribute to good health, I don't believe we can "postive attitude" our way out of real medical issues.

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That is EXACTLY where I am right now!!!! I have done so many things that I regret, and for so long I felt paralyzed by my circumstances. I wanted my circumstances to change... for something to make everything around me better... to make my kids mind me, to "fix" my housekeeping problems, to give me step by step instructions to make my problems go away.

I have finally figured out that if anything is going to change in my life, it is going to have to be because *I* change. It was so hard to give up waiting for a "solution"... a program, a 3 step plan, a set of rules that would make everything around me easier. It was harder to "own my own problems" and actively work towards changing them, even if it meant trying many different things and to improvise and adapt them to suit MY life and MY children. It was so strange and freeing to be able to say "THIS DOESN'T WORK FOR ME" and look for a different solution, instead of doing the same thing over and over and hoping that somehow sheer force of will would make it work. (doing what someone else said "God said" I should do)

I didn't follow the Pearls, (I was more into Dobson) but I did a lot of the same things they teach. They never did "work" for me, and I always thought it was somehow MY FAULT that I didn't have the same wonderful results everyone else claimed to have. I just knew I must not be doing it right... not consistant enough, not strict enough, not committed enough. I tried to maintain a facade of being "happy" and "joyful", but underneath I was a panic-stricken mess! I hit my kids more out of desperation than intention. I wanted that "joy" so badly... I was doing everything "the right way"... why wasn't it working? Why were my kids so rebellious? Why didn't they ever listen? Why did I constantly find myself yelling, threatening and hitting my kids, when they were supposed to be getting BETTER as they got older???

I can completely understand why someone would get sucked into teachings like the Pearls or Ezzo... it promises that if you just follow the plan, everything around you will become EASIER FOR YOU. Then, they say, you will be HAPPY... because you will have easy-to-manage, obedient, quiet, compliant children. No more strife = happiness. No struggles = joy. No problems = a good life. Funny, I can't find that concept in the Bible anywhere. :shrug

What I DO find is that we are supposed to learn to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit IN THE MIDST OF DIFFICULTY. It is more God-like to show PATIENCE in a difficult situation than to have the difficult situation itself taken away. To show GRACE when someone does something that deserves punishment... even if it means that we have to overlook a personal offence. Parenting is supposed to be all about US maturing, growing up spiritually, learning to behave more like God. How can we learn to do that if we concentrate on making our lives easier and more convenient for ourselves?

"Easy" is not the same as "good". Have you ever heard anyone ask a new mom, "so is he a good baby"? What they mean is "is he convenient? Does he sleep a lot, not cry too much, and in general not cause you any inconvenience?" But when you believe that a baby is supposed to fit this definition of "good", then you will be much more likely to be angry and resentful when things are NOT easy. How many new parents get frustrated when their baby doesn't sleep as long as they think they should... who "wants to nurse all the time", or who is "high needs" and "can't be put down". Since they equate a "good baby" with a convenient baby, they are not going to be "joyful" until they find a way to "fix" them and make them easier. (this is why "crying it out", schedules and other gimmicks are so prevalent in these kinds of teachings) They confuse the pleasure and relief of getting their own way with "happiness".

How is it "godly" to be able to treat your children with love and consideration... as long as they don't cause any problems or make life inconvenient? How is that reflecting God's love towards us? If we were talking about these same attributes in a child, we would say that they are spoiled and self-centered and had to have everything their own way to be happy.

Sigh... I'm rambling again....I have so many thoughts on this subject!!!!

Stephanie

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

This is *exactly* why I got sucked in. It was "God's Way". . . it was "guaranteed". . . it was the *only* way to save your children from hell. . . it was also the only way to have good children, children who make their parents proud.. . the list just goes on.

Thank you for sharing. :happytears :happytears :happytears

Now I just have to remember that I'm doing GBD, not for happy, perfect, wonderful kids, but because that is what I'm convinced that God wants from *me*. And I have to remember to be strong. And not to collapse in total self-recrimination when my kids have wrong attitudes, bad behaviours and lash out at me. The trick is exactly what it says in the Bible. . .the infamous rod verse. . . Proverbs 23:14. . .the unrelenting and consistant exposure to God's Word and God's authority (with Deut., which I believe is probably where Solomon got the 'saying') is what will make any difference there is to make in my life, and my family's life.

:)

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Wow, I just wanted to say how helpful this thread was to me and how much I appreciate all who contributed!! :heart

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And praise God for that......how boring would THAT be?!!!!!
;)

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This is exactly how Pearl means for parents to feel when the his method doesn't work. He teaches it outright. :mad :banghead

Yep... :idea and when it really sinks in that Pearl is misrepresenting what JOY is all about (joy = being in control of your kids/life) that's when it becomes easier to see the fallacies in everything else he teaches. :tu Just like with anything in life, you can't experience reality in a meaningful way if you're desparately clinging to an unattainable fantasy of how it "should" be.

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I couldn't agree more that true "joy" is a choice. And ITA also, palil, that it's not bubbly and all-cheerful. I guess I prefer the word "contentment" or "accepting." Because there have been LOTS of times in my life that I have not been full of joy, but I was feeling what God wanted me to feel and I was accepting His help. That much I know. Was I joyful? :neutral I don't know. I *was* still resting in God.

I remember a few days after our Elise was born (still), and we were still in the hospital. Grant and I were playing Rummy :grin at the table and chairs. I was up and dressed (in lounge clothes, but dressed), and we were talking normally. A nurse walked in and said, "Where's the patient? The mother?" I smiled and said, "I'm right here." Her jaw dropped to the ground. I don't know what she expected, but it wasn't what she saw. When she checked me out that day, she said, "I guess you've already been through all the stages of grief and are at 'acceptance.'" Uh. . . . No. I was just okay and not in the toilet at the time. Bodies can't handle all the sad at once. You've got to take it in stages. Right then, I was fine. But it would be months and months and months before the sad would be truly on the upswing, before I would really be "joyful." But I do believe I was "content" right then -- doing the best I could in God's arms.

I dunno. . . . Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

C

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

No, Camille, I think that's exactly right. :tu

Joy is resting in the arms of Jesus, even when bad things happen and are scary and overwhelming. It's trusting that everything will be all right in the end because God is in control, even you don't understand and may *never* understand why. Joy is having that "peace that passes all understanding" and being grateful for that. :)

It's not being happy no matter what. That's called insanity. ;) The point of Christianity is to have a *relationship* with God. Relationships go through ups and downs, good and bad times. That's how we grow. And God certainly knows how we're feeling, so we can be open and honest about it. And then choose to trust him in spite of how we feel.

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True! ;)

C

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

wow this is so beautiful you guys! :happytears

I agree that it is about making a choice to be content :) I am learning I have 2 special needs kids and sometimes i just wanna kick and scream have my big feelings, which is okay ;) but after that I realize *how content* I really am :) Im not always bubbly and jumping up and down with "happiness" as Mary said, I would be insane (okay, sometimes I think i am insane ;) ) but I do think that I am joyful. and now Im happy reading this thread because Im realizing that I am! :happytears

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Beautiful thoughts, and so true! :happytears :heart

Had to :giggle at the "always happy is insanity" comment, Mary! :grin

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wow that was deep....I will have to go back and reread..hehe..

OT:
What I am getting out of the Pearl stuff posted (and what I remember, i think) is that you must appear to be happy and healthy even if you aren't...and then it will just happen?? Do this and you will get this in result...

I don't know...turns my stomach. I grew up my entire life not being allowed to express my opinions or feelings on things. (what Pearl is teaching)..it didn't help me at all with life. i still struggle to this day with expressing myself openly and honestly (in person anyway..lol)...darned if I will do that to my kids. I had to laugh the other day when my mom told me I needed to let the kids express their feelings...hehe...like she did me?

sorry off my rant....

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One of my friends on another board has a good analogy that springs to mind ... if someone made you some brownies but put just a liiiiiiitle bit of dog poop in them, would you eat them? Of course not! I think the same way about the Pearls. The "brownie" part of what they say may look just fine, but the dog poop spoils the whole batch.

Re: The Pearl's "Good stuff"
 

Only the Pearls have offered up a big pile of dog poo with a chunk of brownie in it and hope the scent will fool you :shifty