Gentle Christian Mothers Community - Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

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- Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=421)

- - Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=351134)

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighterwife (Post 2971236)

The bolded part keeps jumping out at me...the same shaming, "this is your fault that I have to chastise/spank/punish you" mindset as it has always been.

Granted I don't have the entire context, but the wording of this still sends up alarm bells for me. :shrug

I am also interested to know if he has retracted his older teachings. If he hasn't/won't - that makes it clear where his heart/theology remain.

I looked some on his website, and there is not a retraction and like a pp said, SACH is still available thru his website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothersson2002 (Post 2971693)

It is wonderfully good that you choose to not hit your children Striving for Grace!☺

:yes And lots of us are also working on not hitting and learning new tools instead. Myself included.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

What Tripp and Pearl and Dobson fail to see is that raising your kids doesn't have to be an "us vs them" event. :shrug3 So although Tripp may have changed his tune a bit about spanking and that leading to salvation...he still desires for the parent to control the child. And not in healthy way , but in an adversarial manner. Parenting doesn't have to mean using "I'm the boss" arguments. As long as Tripp is still using the "us vs them" paradigm in his teachings , it's not worth it imo , to dig through to get to the "good stuff".

Here's the thing that rubs me... we are not in control of our child's salvation. That's on THEIR shoulders. My job is to show them a loving , kind , God that wants a real relationship with them. Past that , it's on THEIR terms. Not mine. No amount of applied parenting techniques takes away from the bare fact that we are only responsible for our own salvation. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says we are responsible for any one else's salvation , including our children. The verse so commonly used "Children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right"... the author is speaking to THE CHILDREN. Not the parents. That's for CHILDREN to read , to decide , to obey. I think it was ArmsOfLove (Crystal) that said "Children choose to obey us when they are obeying God." To swipe it around (they'll learn to obey God by obeying us) is putting the cart before the horse. Remember that verse isn't directed toward the parents. It's directed to the kids. My job is to show my kids that verse , and all the others surrounding it. Past that , that's their onus , not mine. Their salvation is in THEIR hands , not mine. Yes , that is a scary thought , but it's true. I can only help them so far , it's their road to walk.

What I want my children to learn about God through me...he's gracious , he's kind , he's merciful , and he wants to know them personally. I just don't see how that is best done when I've created an environment like Tripp wants (as SACH shows)...where the parents and the kids are against each other. That the kids are always manipulative or out to prove something and us parents must break that out of them. :sick

I also get sick at the "nine month old child manipulating during a diaper change by wiggling" concept. Children don't have the mental capacity to manipulate until they are MUCH older. It just perpetuates the whole "us vs them" mindset. That's where I think the true danger lies in the Pearl/Tripp/Dobson teachings.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

JK3 - can I quote you? PM me your real name if you want that sort of credit. :)

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

I pm'd you so as not to throw the thread off too much with questions I had.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Quote:

Originally Posted by katiekind (Post 2971594)

Thank you for expanding your thoughts, Sheryl. That's helpful. I can't recommend the book, but I would imagine he's a fine pastor and may grow, change, or become more nuanced in his ideas of how grace and truth can be applied in parenting.

when a christian pastor has a non-biblical view of grace and salvation, i'm not sure i can say he is a "fine pastor." I do pray the Lord will open his eyes to the true gospel of grace and that He will give TT the wisdom to change the parenting advice he gives. that said, i'm not sure I personally could sit under teaching by someone who had such a different view of the essential message of scripture.

this is in no means ment to hurt the OP or the PP...i also understand this must be a most difficult transition for you. :hug2 i just want to encourage you to remember to test everything you hear and learn agains the authority of scripture. its so difficult to sort out the "good from the bad".

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

(I apologize that my post is kind of all over the place. I wanted to respond to so many things, and didn't even get to everything, and it was a little overwhelming for me. lol :O . . .)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striving4Grace (Post 2970298)

In fact if you even mention the TTUAC book you can see visible disgust in the eyes of Pastor Tedd and Margy.

That is so wonderful to hear. :hugheart

Quote:

They are very kind, patient and loving people and I do admit it doesn't necessarily come though in the book but my entire family owes them a debit of gratitude as the healing that has happened as we have detoxed from TTUAC is amazing and for the very first time I can see that my children's salvation most certainly does not depend on anything outside of Christ.

I am happy to hear how you have learned good things from them and they have blessed your family. I praise God that He is working through them to help you heal. :heart

Quote:

I understand that there are a great deal of ladies here who find even the mere concept of spanking so repugnant that it is impossible to see those who advocate it as anything but monsters themselves writing child abuse manuals and I agree with that in regards to the Pearls due to my own experience.

He teaches some things in his book SACH that leave me feeling very sad and very concerned, but I don't think your pastor is a monster, and I can see why you love and admire him and his wife. :hugheart

Quote:

I am here to learn more about gentle discipline using logical consequences since that is what type of discipline I was advised to use.

I'm so glad you are here and wanting to learn along with us on this journey. :hug2

Quote:

Another thing to be careful about, even when all other advice is good, is when the concept of defiance is presented as something to be especially feared.

TwoKids, I really agree.

Quote:

What Tripp and Pearl and Dobson fail to see is that raising your kids doesn't have to be an "us vs them" event. :shrug3

J3K, definitely the us vs. them paradigm is of concern. You are so right.

Quote:

I think where we part company with Tripp is at this point. He sees spanking as reasonable, we do not. We all agree about consequences to negative behaviors - be it the removal of an item the child can't handle responsibly all the way to an older child needing to rebuild trust in their relationship beteen them and their parent. We don't agree that causing pain is logical for an issue of trust or respect or responsiblity. Avoidence of pain more often teaches a child to 'not get caught' long before it teaches them to modify their behavior based on understanding or maturing. 'Reeping what you have sown' is about natural conseqences, 'what I am doing to you' is about a parent's decision to apply pain on top of natural consequence at their discretion.

I think you explained that so well, elcollins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermana Linda (Post 2971406)

Striving4Grace, It must be very hard to hear these things being said about your pastor. :sigh I hope you don't feel attacked. :hug2 We are trying very hard to be gentle, but we are also very passionate about fighting those teachings. :yes3

:yes2 ((Hugs))

Striving4Grace, I really can understand why you enjoy learning from your pastor and why you attend that church. :hug2 Tedd Tripp is Reformed Baptist as I recall, and as someone who attended a Reformed Baptist church for 8 years (until we left two years ago), I can understand being drawn to attend that church. :hug2 I trust that God will continue to guide you on this journey. :heart

Kathy, I really think you are right when you say that Tedd Tripp "may grow, change, or become more nuanced in his ideas of how grace and truth can be applied to parenting." :think

Reformed Christians tend to talk a *lot* about God's grace and, I personally believe, tend to understand a lot of good things about God's grace. Yet in many cases, and I see this being true of much of evangelical Christianity in general, too, it seems that somehow they don't seem to grasp ways it should apply to parenting our children. :think :pray4 But there are those who do apply it beautifully, and it sounds like he may be learning and understanding more about how grace applies to parenting. That is my prayer. :pray4

Quote:

i also understand this must be a most difficult transition for you. :hug2 i just want to encourage you to remember to test everything you hear and learn agains the authority of scripture. its so difficult to sort out the "good from the bad".

:yes2 I think this is good advice. It's good for me, too, and I think for all of us to remember. :heart :pray4 :heart

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Quote:

Originally Posted by J3K (Post 2971864)

Here's the thing that rubs me... we are not in control of our child's salvation. That's on THEIR shoulders. My job is to show them a loving , kind , God that wants a real relationship with them. Past that , it's on THEIR terms. Not mine. No amount of applied parenting techniques takes away from the bare fact that we are only responsible for our own salvation. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says we are responsible for any one else's salvation , including our children. The verse so commonly used "Children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right"... the author is speaking to THE CHILDREN. Not the parents. That's for CHILDREN to read , to decide , to obey. I think it was ArmsOfLove (Crystal) that said "Children choose to obey us when they are obeying God." To swipe it around (they'll learn to obey God by obeying us) is putting the cart before the horse. Remember that verse isn't directed toward the parents. It's directed to the kids. My job is to show my kids that verse , and all the others surrounding it. Past that , that's their onus , not mine. Their salvation is in THEIR hands , not mine. Yes , that is a scary thought , but it's true. I can only help them so far , it's their road to walk.

:clap And if you are of the Reformed bent, they can't even have faith unless God first calls them.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwwr (Post 2973006)

And if you are of the Reformed bent, they can't even have faith unless God first calls them.

i wonder if this aspect of reformed theology feeds into the fear i see parents who follow TTUAC or SACH have. it seems to me they may have fear that is pacified by the assurances of these parenting methods that the parents can in effect "save the souls" of their children.

it is a huge step of faith and trust in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to realize only He determins the salvation of our little ones...despite all we my desire and do.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

NM, I posted before finishing all 5 pages!

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

In response to the OP:

Is it weird that I kind of assume that all pastors/teachers/Christians are punitive unless they have expressly said otherwise?

I'm wary of anything and everything that comes into my hand with a 'Christian' label because I've never known Christians who weren't punitive until I came here. It is all I've ever experienced.

His theology doesn't surprise me, though it's certainly still sad. :( It makes me wonder what percentage of Christians are punitive minded (both theologically and parenting-wise) and how many have a true understanding of Grace as it applies to every area of our lives.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewLeaf (Post 2973556)

Same here.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Just quoting and commenting on what has been said. So sad. :cry

Quote:

Originally Posted by erinee (Post 2970462)

I found some quotes from SACH:

Page 106: “’Punish him [a child] with the rod and save his soul from death’ (Proverbs 23:14). Your children’s souls are in danger of death—spiritual death. Your task is to rescue your children from death. Faithful and timely use of the rod is the means of rescue.” If that were even possible, God would have sent stern nannies and dominatrixes to save us. Not Jesus.

Page 151 “Remove his drawers so that the spanking is not lost in the padding of his pants.” :sick THAT is abuse.

Page 152: "On some occasions we have had to say to our children, ‘Dear, Daddy has spanked you, but you are not sweet enough yet. We are going to have to go back upstairs for another spanking.'” :hunh That's just twisted.

Page 154 “Rebellion can be something as simple as an infant struggling against a diaper change or stiffening his body when you want him to sit on your lap. The discipline procedure is the same as laid out above." Rebellion. Infant. Those two do not belong in the same sentence.

FTR, I don't think he's a monster, and I don't think he's as awful as Pearl. But I do think he is wrong and, moreover, he is advising parents to do wrong and damaging things to their children in the name of Jesus and salvation. :( I'm also very glad to hear he has a new book that is very different from his old teachings. The only Tripp book in my library is his former one, and that's what most people are familiar with. I do hope that he has changed his heart and his teachings.

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Here are "Notes from Ted Tripp": He wrote the post on May 22nd, 2009,after he wrote Instructing a Child's Heart: He is responding tho the question why "Shepherding a Child's Heart remains popular. So, no, he still supports his original teachings.
"Shepherding a Child's Heart" provides parents with biblical advice".
There are 5 paragraphs here:
http://www.shepherdpress. com/blog/notes-from-tedd-tripp/

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

Dear Striving for Grace,
I just want to mention is that everything is subject to perception. Though Ted Tripp may have a limits in mind, when he talks of hitting children, the limits aren't laid out. Readers like those of Michael Pearl's material could apply their own interpretations on Ted Tripp's teachings in a punishment session and it could cause injury like in the Schatz case even though Ted Tripp wouldn't intend for that to happen of course. Does that make sense?
☺

Re: Kirk Cameron and Ted Tripp

I don't think that anyone is a monster. Not even Pearl. What I do think is that they can be dangerous for certain people, due to what they teach publicly and profusely. I do think that they can be mistaken. I do think that they can just plain wrong. They are (their teachings) the poop in the brownie, and the poison in the soup. Sometimes people just don't know it's there until too late.

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