Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Nothing is new. I personally am pretty sure it was discussed in every generation just sadly the GCM style hasn't progressed as much as the punitive...what's worse is it is largely due to Christians when it should be the opposite


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Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

I think that is changing a faster than it seems. I see a lot people rejecting all or part of the punitive parenting they had as kids for the same reasons we do. A lot of parents use time out instead of spanking because that seems like a gentle and respectful approach to them. While I am not a fan of Super Nanny or Nanny 911, there is no getting around these women have changed a lot of how parents do things and spanking is something they very loudly oppose. I think there must be a even bigger shift in the Church at large or these experts would not be so loud. You don't fight battles that are not there, so they must think they are going to lose very soon.

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

You could interview every murderer, you could research every murderer executed and probably close to ALL were spanked as children. My brother worked with violent offenders. The stats, the REAL stats are there.

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Yep. You might just as well say that eating potatoes might be dangerous and cause criminal behavior. So many serial murderers and other criminals, I mean, almost all of them, have eaten potatoes, at least at some point of their lives. On the other hand, I just conducted an informal research. My colleague, who works in the room next to me, is a very nice person, and she likes to eat potatoes....;)

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Just thought I'd come back here to say that DD has finished her logic paper in response to Pearl's article, but I'm not sure about having it posted on the web. At first I was excited about it, but I'm concerned that it could catch a lot of flack & criticism. She's too young to have her name circulating around the web attached to something so potentially volatile, but it's really not fair to publish without her name. We're sorting out whether/how to proceed.

I also have to say that her writing was specifically to address logical fallacies. So, while we talked about flaws in the studies, she primarily worked to identify things like red herrings, ad hominem, appeal to the people, etc... It's a bit esoteric. She spent a brief paragraph on how the studies were not controlled for multiple factors and correlation vs. causation, but that wasn't the focus of her paper.

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Use a pen name? ;) :giggle

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Yes, I do accept anonymous submissions.

And I could change it for her at any time.

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Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Yeah, I'm probably kind of unreasonably uncomfortable with it, but I don't think we're ready to put it out there just yet. :bag

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

That's okay. :hug2

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Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

I was going to ask when Pearl started referring to himself as a spanker - but HL already addressed the issue of his division between spankings and training :rolleyes And since he defines "spankings" as "what happens when training isn't done correctly" why on earth is he defending spankings in the first place? Let alone saying that all presidents were spanked (something I'm not sure is accurate - I think I've read something about that but cannot remember where :think)

And, basically, if he is saying that lots of people go on to become President et al even with spankings then isn't he undermining the argument for early "training"? Why bother if your kid can become President without it?

Except it's the early training he believes prepares children to be "without sin so that they are able to be saved." Oh yeah! that pesky heresy! What a way to bury that :doh



If you haven't read it already you might want to grab a copy of "Spare The Child." It talks about the long history of debate over this issue within the Church

:think Most people over the generations either just went silent and didn't draw attention to themselves or, more sadly, LEFT THE Church! So the larger issue isn't that non-spankers haven't had the discussion as vocally or as long. The larger issue is that non-spankers have left or chosen not to embrace the Church at all. The issue of spanking has become an OBSTACLE to the Gospel message!

And when someone who has done a great deal of that obstacle building suddenly wants to cite all the secular studies (yes, wrongly cite, fake statistics, etc) then I lose even more respect for him as his entire doctrine is based on being in OPPOSITION to the secular EVERYTHING. So which is it? What new twist does MP put on his "truth" and how many times will we see it twisted around like a serpent using great skill based on whatever the current criticism is to him.

He's not a teacher. He's more like a magician. Maybe even more like the great Wizard of Oz. Pay no attention to the man behind the skillfully and desperately woven curtain.

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Given how nasty and cruel people can be when there are no real consequences, I would have a hard time putting something like that out there, too. Especially when she is such a young teenager. She does not need the petty mean spiritedness that some people would either enjoy or feel justified inflicting.

Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child
 

Very good point!

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