If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age...

[jandjmommy]

If your kids are ostensibly beyond spanking age, how important is it that your church is not pro spanking?
We started at a church a few months ago. DS10 absolutely loves the children's program. He has never, even at age 2, agreed to go to Sunday School - except here. They have a big program for 5th and 6th graders, which I think is great, as the big programs are usually only for jr high and high school.
BUT
The pastor is currently doing a series on families (which I think is in response to an email I sent him about a guest speaker who railed against gay marriage, but that is another topic!) and basically spent an entire sermon giving the lame "I was beat black and blue even at school and look at me now" and using the nanny's reasons why parents stink now blog post as an outline (I agree with all of her reasons, but he turned them into reasons to spank.)
My question is, how important is your church's stance on spanking if your kids are outside the range of spanking (7 and 10)? I was annoyed, but honestly, his opinion does not apply to me at this point.

[Codi]

I personally would not like to be at a church where that is happening.

For me, it's not as much an issue of having an influence on me as it is how much I can trust coming out of the mouths of those preaching that. I've learned that if you believe in it THAT extensively, sometimes even mildly, your views on a lot of other things are much different than I want to be hearing and embracing.

[cbmk4]

I am currently evaluating a similar question. If such teaching came from the pulpit to the entire congregation, I would be out of there in a flash. I, personally could not support a church that so boldly proclaimed beating of children as acceptable and even desirable behavior. Knowing that they espouse such views would poison how I view the church. Additionally, I think that anyone who holds such views cannot help but have his/her theology tainted as well.

[MudPies]

I would question if they truly understand grace. :(. That is a deal breaker for me. Why don't grace and forgiveness apply to children? I wonder if this pastor believes God punishes. I could not deal with that.

[MrsHutch]

I wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I loved the church otherwise. I may even consider it part of my ministry to younger families to show them that there is another (better, more Biblical) way.

[Peaceful Meadows]

I think it's very important to attend a church which has a pastor who has the perspective of God being merciful and gracious vs. God being an angry God. Church leadership's perspective of God affects their teachings from the pulpit, to the youth, children, etc. Children are like sponges and absorb what they hear in the classroom as well as at home. I want my children to absorb that God is gracious and merciful rather than the false view that He's harsh and judgemental.

My pastor has grown children and believes spanking is a tool that occasionally may be needed but very rarely. I obviously don't agree with my pastor that there is a time when spanking may be needed but I love my pastor. He is a very gracious and merciful man. His message is one of grace and when he preached a parenting series it was full of advice about listening to your children, being in tune with them and their needs, looking at what's behind their misbehavior rather than being reactive. He put emphasis on his belief that a parent rarely needs to spank a child. He said that we should use natural and logical consequences and be proactive rather than reactive. He spoke about God being a gracious and just Father full of mercy and how we need to be the same way with our children.

That same view of God being merciful and gracious is taught in the youth and children's ministries. The teachers correct from a paradigm of grace and teaching right from wrong rather than judgement. I think that it's important that church leadership have a grace-filled paradigm because it flavors the whole church. :yes

So that to say that I will attend a church where the pastor believes spanking is a tool one can use, as long as his view of God is one of Him being slow to anger and abounding in mercy and grace. :yes

[Aerynne]

I wouldn't be totally sure your kids are beyond spanking age. :(

For me it would depend on how strongly he was in favor of spanking. If he really spent an entire sermon on it, that's different from an off-handed mention of "I was spanked and I'm fine".

[BarefootBetsy]

Offhandedly mentioning "I was spanked and I'm fine" - not a dealbreaker.

Entire sermon about spanking and how good/necessary it is - a dealbreaker.

I don't want my children being exposed to the doctrine of spanking taught from the pulpit and I want them to be in a community of faith that respects children and treats them kindly, with grace and love - not with harsh words and/or physical punishments.

[WanderingJuniper]

:think How do I want to phrase this. . . It's been my experience that congregations that lean pro spanking also lean pro patriarchy. Those two things often mean the congregation is more about power and the appearance of right action than heart, grace, and living in the trenches with their members through the dirty bits of life and the difficult moments that make disciples.

[ShiriChayim]

Offhandedly mentioning "I was spanked and I'm fine" - not a dealbreaker.

Entire sermon about spanking and how good/necessary it is - a dealbreaker.

I don't want my children being exposed to the doctrine of spanking taught from the pulpit and I want them to be in a community of faith that respects children and treats them kindly, with grace and love - not with harsh words and/or physical punishments. (bolded mine)

Yes to all of this, but especially to what I put into bold. Part of that is that I'm parenting special needs so that definitely makes a difference for me. I want my children to be in a church where they will be valued for who they are and what they have to bring to the table. In a community where what you posted about is the normative, I would be constantly on edge, worried that my children will act like children and thus be labeled and treated harshly by people who expect different things from them.

I also wanted to point out to you that this: The pastor is currently doing a series on families (which I think is in response to an email I sent him about a guest speaker who railed against gay marriage, but that is another topic!) would be another red flag for me. My concern would be that this is not a church that does well with individual expression (either from children or adults) and relies heavily on a punitive and legalistic view of scriptures. It's not an overall culture I would personally feel comfortable in, but more importantly it's not the kind of culture I want shaping my children's beliefs on who God is.

[Dtswife]

The church I go to is awesome. They're all about grace, their children's programs are amazing, they don't care if babies fuss in the service, etc.

They also are ok with spanking. The head pastor did a wonderful sermon on parenting and families, and honestly, 97% could have been lifted from here or arms of love's blog, but he did have about two minutes on spanking as a tool to address defiance.

I think I would be very, very, very hard pressed to find a church that meets all my other criteria AND advocates against punishment.

Since their attitude, even when discussing punishment, is so based in grace and rooted in love, I'm on with agreeing to disagree, as it were on this issue. If they were wrathful and angry on this, they would be on other stuff too, and it would be entirely different.

[Pragmatist]

Mentioning it occasionally I can deal with. What I can't handle is seeing or hearing spanking. If parents are encouraged to take their children out of the service to spank them, I'm out of there.

[HuggaBuggaMommy]

Offhandedly mentioning "I was spanked and I'm fine" - not a dealbreaker.

Entire sermon about spanking and how good/necessary it is - a dealbreaker.

I don't want my children being exposed to the doctrine of spanking taught from the pulpit and I want them to be in a community of faith that respects children and treats them kindly, with grace and love - not with harsh words and/or physical punishments.

This.

I attended a church for 8 years where EVERYONE spanked, except me. (There were families who spanked for every offense as a Biblical mandate, families who rarely spanked but felt like they "had to" for direct disobedience, and families on the spectrum between those two points; the pastor and his wife fell on the "less often" side of things.) But it was *never* preached from the pulpit, and children were treated as blessings. It was an okay church to be in.

What you describe. No way. I'd be gone.

[jandjmommy]

Thank you!

I'm almost out of churches to visit in our area. This was about the sixth place I found and since DS decided he actually wanted to participate I just settled in.

It is a very large church, as were all of the others I visited, and I'm starting to think that Arizona may be a somewhat conservative state. :D I honestly thought that most of the punitive/backward religious thinking would only be pervasive in tiny cultish churches nowadays. Shows what I know!

I will try the last church I've found and hope it works out better than this one! I don't enjoy any aspect of the service and I feel like I'd get over-involved trying to change everything if I even put a toe in to volunteer. Obviously this strategy is rarely successful. :lol

DS can still be involved with the youth activities if he wants to without having to attend that church.

ETA: The kids did not hear this sermon because they were in Sunday School. That's why I was wondering how much it could matter if I could manage to blow it off. But after reading all of the replies I actually thought about why I go there, and there is no compelling reason outside of DS's interest in the activities for his age group.

[mommylove]

Finding a new church is hard. :hug I pray that the right church for you is crystal clear.

[arelyn]

Finding a new church is hard. :hug I pray that the right church for you is crystal clear.

Ditto that! :pray4

[ArmsOfLove]

If we weren't so far west from your area I would invite you to come worship with us :hug. I mean, you still could, but I know it's a tough drive. If you want to pm me some cross streets I can see what churches are in the area that I might know or know about the pastor.

[Elspeth]

I wouldn't be totally sure your kids are beyond spanking age. :(


This. I was 19 when I had my last spanking. There are circles where it's believed that there is no age cutoff. If you're under your parents roof, unmarried, that sort of thing.