What about consequences and punishments in life?

[willtravelforfood]

Ok so my husband and I are reading "Jesus, the Gentle Parent" and are living it. He has agreed with everything so far, but is still having a hard time letting go of the need to enforce consequences. I think we've had it beaten into our heads that they are necessary, that it feels wrong not to. His argument is that we can be gentle and living but the world isn't. There are instant consequences in the world (like when kids are at school or if they get in trouble with the law). His concern is that raising them without punishments will mislead them into believing that there are no punishments in life. So how do you prepare your kids for the punitive world we live in??


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[Katigre]

There is a difference between punishment and consequences imo. I do not parent without consequences, I do not know of any gentle discipline that says "never any consequences". Instead, they should be teaching, respectful, and helpful in equipping the child with life skills and developmentally appropriate.

Ex. If my child is found to have taken the tablet for extra screen time without permission, then they lose their privilege of using it. That's a consequence.

[rjy9343]

No punishment does not mean no consequences. I just told Ivy she may not look in the sink. (I have some grapes in it and do not want her to eat them). She ran to the bathroom to get her step stool so she could do it anyway. I told her if she used her things to disobey, she would lose them. She stopped and did as she was told. That would be a logical consequence.
A punishment would have been to spank her or put her in time out and then put the stool back in the bathroom.
If your son refused to wear a coat or shoes on a cold day, then he gets cold. He learns his lesson and wears them next time. Natural consequence. If you spanked him for it, you punished him, but he really did not learn why he needs a coat or shoes.
I hope this makes sense, but my daughter needs me.

[bentlaj11]

Subbing to learn more! DH and I both struggle w/ this... especially thinking about punishment in school.

[Virginia]

A lot of schools are moving away from punishments towards logical consequences and restoring relationships (as they should), but just because a school uses punishments doesn't mean parents should. It doesn't make punishment effective, but a lot of school systems are just set up that way :shrug It doesn't mean the kid won't be able to deal with it when it happens in school or that you're setting them up for failure in school :no You'll still teach them what they need to know-appropriate behavior, manners, how to follow directions, etc.

Also, not all teachers use punishment ;)

[saturnfire16]

Because life is full of real world consequences, there is no need for parents to make up consequences or punishments to make them learn that life has consequences. Instead, be their safe place to turn to when they experience those consequences in real life. Be the trusted person they can come to for advice to avoid those real consequences, and the person who will walk them through making amends and how to avoid those situations in the future. :yes

For example, if you don't return books to the library, you pay a fine. Or you aren't allowed to check out anything else.

If you are too rowdy in the store or the movie theater you might get kicked out.

If you are rude to your friends, they might not want to play with you anymore.

If you spend all your money on one thing, you don't have any for the other thing you wanted.

And on and on and on.

We can help our kids understand real world consequences by explaining that we are telling them to be calm in the store, not because of some arbitrary personal preference, but because of the possible real world consequence (and simply because it's respectful).

Or they might experience the one about being rude to their friends when you weren't there to help them with the interaction. They'll know better for next time.

And so on...

But there is no reason to impose additional consequences on to the real world ones.

[rjy9343]

Thank you, Emily. I was trying to explain what you said and could not make the words leave my head.
We do a lot of things that don't "matter" like obey traffic laws so no one is hurt or avoid gossip so that we don't hurt others because it is the right thing to do. We don't have anyone standing guard ready to punish us, we just want to do the right thing.

[saturnfire16]

Thank you, Emily. I was trying to explain what you said and could not make the words leave my head.
We do a lot of things that don't "matter" like obey traffic laws so no one is hurt or avoid gossip so that we don't hurt others because it is the right thing to do. We don't have anyone standing guard ready to punish us, we just want to do the right thing.

And that's the best motivation right there. :yes

[bentlaj11]

A lot of schools are moving away from punishments towards logical consequences and restoring relationships (as they should), but just because a school uses punishments doesn't mean parents should. It doesn't make punishment effective, but a lot of school systems are just set up that way :shrug It doesn't mean the kid won't be able to deal with it when it happens in school or that you're setting them up for failure in school :no You'll still teach them what they need to know-appropriate behavior, manners, how to follow directions, etc.

Also, not all teachers use punishment ;)

And, you're going to come be my kid's teacher, right? :heart! I remember your thread :rockon

I saw a meme on FB w/ a picture of cop and something about saying that they don't want parents to threaten w/ "police" b/c kids need to trust police to help them! But our 4 y/o sees police lights and asks questions about why... etc, so we're starting to get deeper into all the rules/laws business, since we don't really have many "rules" at home (since most everything fits under treating others w/ kindness) :shifty

[ArmsOfLove]

What I recommend is using your grown up reasoning skills to determine what the natural consequence of something is (natural consequence is what will/is likely to happen unless you prevent it). Then determine if your child is old and mature enough to both survive it and learn from it. If not, block it. If so, consider letting it happen.

For example -

toddler near the street means might run into it or be hit by a car. Not old/mature enough to survive and learn from, so don't let them play near the street.

child messing with a cat who is getting annoyed but has been going after the cat for a long time and you've removed him repeatedly - you know this cat won't attack, but might give a warning swat or hiss. You might let the cat set the boundary and then help enforce it after.

young one is swinging a stick around and something might get broken. If it's your stuff and you care about it, remove the stick. If it's their stuff and you're okay with something getting broken because you've taught him a hundred times about the possibility - maybe let him keep swinging.

I am not a fan of logical (you create them and impose them) consequences for a child younger than 8-ish (the age they are supposed to be developing logic so that such a consequence would make sense). BUT I consider the natural consequence of you being annoyed worthy of you stepping in and parenting :tu

The trick is this . . . with punishments you may or may not tell them what to do, but then you stand back and wait for the child to mess up and then swoop in and "train" them. With GBD you are *in* all the time instructing them in what *to* do, where to do it, and how to do it.

With punishment you are supposed to be able to eventually move from punishing to teaching. With GBD you are teaching from the beginning and only step out of teaching something when it's obvious the child has learned it.

When punitive approaches appear to work it's because they are on top of the child punishing for every little thing and not backing down until the child has learned it. These approaches generally involve "reconnecting" rituals that are used to try and minimize the disconnect in relationship that is inherent in punishment. The GBD approach of teaching and redirecting and being actively involved is just as intensive, and just as effective (in fact, moreso for many children) and creates stronger relationship bonds because it doesn't involve disconnecting within the relationship and reconnecting it.

As your child grows, you will be teaching them all sorts of things - including, eventually, the laws that they will need to obey for the community (social and legal issues). Your child will not have a history of fearing punishments imposed by you, so they won't live in fear of being caught doing things. Rather, the expectation is that they will have a relationship with you that involves doing what is expected as they are able, so they will grow into young people who continue to do what is expected as they are able. They will drive the speed limit because it's the law - not because they fear the ticket if they don't.