Vision Forum-Doug Phillips resigned

[mom2g2b]

http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/news_and_reports/statement_of_resignation.aspx

I am not sure how to change this link to not go to the site. I attempted. I saw this on Facebook today.

He spoke at a homeschool conference I attended about 12 years ago and I didn't like his speaking at all.

[HadassahSukkot]

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/10/31/doug-philips-resigns-from-office-of-president-at-vision-forum-discontinues-speaking-engagements/ for those who do not wish to go directly to that site

[sweetpeasmommy]

Put a space in the link anywhere before the .org
http://www.visionforum ministries.org/issues/%20news_and_reports/statement_of_resignation.aspx
would work.

[peekaboomama]

Interesting.

I actually appreciate his resignation letter; I'm not familiar with him previous to this (though I do know about VF). It reads "genuine" to me.

[katiekind]

And I hope that the repentence he no doubt is experiencing goes deep, deep, deep, and is used by God to heal him and his family.

What is shocking to contemplate is the [edited] hypocrisy while he carried on a 'lengthy' relationship with another woman - while collecting speaker fees and leading a ministry whose over-arching theme is integrity and honor.

------------------
Hey all, I edited out "six years" from what I wrote above. I apologize for that misstatement which was based in nothing that I have read. Wires must have gotten crossed between brain and fingers. Phillips used "lengthy" to describe the duration of the attachment. My apologies to all.

[mommylove]

What is shocking to contemplate is the six years of hypocrisy while he carried on with another woman - while collecting speaker fees and leading a ministry whose over-arching theme is integrity and honor.

He implies the relationship was not sexual. Therefore, it seems just as likely that he simply failed to see that an emotional line was being crossed, as the assumption that he intentionally crossed the line & lied about it. :shrug3 We don't know either way & it's not our place to judge.

I hope this is a time where everyone affected can refocus & find Truth.

[MaiMama]

Is this the same guy who pulled other people's tween girls over his lap to spank at conferences? Or a different one?

[PaperMomma]

I honestly can't say I'm surprised. When you view women as sub human, give nearly unlimited power to men(especially those in "leadership" positions), and teach extreme legalism, this is often the result. :shrug


I thought this link was interesting:
http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/10/31/the-heavy-burden-of-doug-phillips-legalism-leads-to-his-resignation-from-vision-forum/


I was also totally :rolleyes that he avoided saying whether or not they actually had sex. Who knows what his "biblical definition of know" is? :sh4

[DoulaClara]

He implies the relationship was not sexual. Therefore, it seems just as likely that he simply failed to see that an emotional line was being crossed, as the assumption that he intentionally crossed the line & lied about it. :shrug3 We don't know either way & it's not our place to judge.

I hope this is a time where everyone affected can refocus & find Truth.

Sorta, yes. Everyone in his life can take the high road and do this, and may it humble him right to the ground. He is world-famous for his merciless handling and merciless counseling of how to handle infractions that are mere annoyances compared to this. So, yes, people in his life certainly can make the best choice and give grace to the man who has been graceless to them, but the general public, who paid money to hear him speak and who offered up their families as a petri dish in order to play out his hard-nosed and heavy-handed types of relationships, they certainly DO get to "judge," which you are here seeming to define as "Comparing his IRL output with his loud and obnoxious voice, lo these many years." How on earth else would an adult change their socially inappropriate behavior, if not by reaping public scorn over his DOING exactly what he rails against? :scratch

[mommylove]

I don't have any personal experience with him so without that, I'm not in the hate Doug Phillips camp; I'm just neutral.

I used the word judge as us determining what happened without knowing all the facts. He is vague (appropriately so, IMO) and I'm saying it's not our place to figure out the details.

How on earth else would an adult change their socially inappropriate behavior, if not by reaping public scorn over his DOING exactly what he rails against? :scratch

The goal is to change the heart, not the behavior & only the Holy Spirit can do that.

[DoulaClara]

Correct. And I don't think anyone here has the goal of changing Doug Phillips heart. :yes However, if people tolerate and accept certain shenanigans from prominent Christians, we A) seem to be telling non-Christians that we are down with all of this, and B) end up with Jim Bakker, back at the "shilling the faithful" game again, even though he went all the way through prison and was supposedly rehabbed. What will be spat out on the other side of this? If he decides to speak (for profit) again, what will be the message he sells?

[katiekind]

My observations in this department are probably deeply tainted by "bias confirmation", but it kinda seems like the more someone preaches "wife-only submission" or patriarchy, etc, the more likely they are to have a spectacular fall in their marriage.

Perhaps they begin by being in a difficult marriage for which they assume the antidote is a tight system of rules and control--and become leaders by projecting that everyone else needs rules and control too, or else they'll also stray.

I don't know. Probably, like I say, it's only confirmation bias that makes that pattern stand out. But still....:think

[HadassahSukkot]

I know Doug from his former HSLDA days. This needs to be known, esp if it is someone from within Vision Forum it happened with. If nothing else for people to have a crisis of theology and re-examine their Bibles and see what G-d has to say about treating people as authority and what is/isn't inappropriate relationships between the opposite sex etc. Because their definition certainly is not ours.

My hope is that IF it is with one of the girls/women within VF, that she will be helped out and given as much grace as she needs, because the odds are that she was coerced into this as a way to honor him. :sick And if it is, she may well b e hidden away. with him speaking out... she has a chance.

[twentysixcats]

Wow.

I followed Jen's Gems for a while when she first went public with the story. At that time, I was reading all blogs about "Biblical Womanhood" and how great patriarchy and SAHDs, etc. were. Her blog and speaking out against Vision Forum in general were very influential to me and my view of myself. While I chose not to speak out against Phillips/Vision Forum, I did choose not to give them any of my money or draw attention to any of the writings that came from that group.

[silverlining]

I was also totally :rolleyes that he avoided saying whether or not they actually had sex. Who knows what his "biblical definition of know" is? :sh4


It's very Clinton-esque, isn't it? I am glad for the sake of the other woman and his own family that he isn't divulging details, though.

I do hope this will lead to some of his followers and admirers thinking twice about his patriarchal teachings.

[katiekind]

Hey all, in a previous post I wrote to the effect that this hypocritical behavior had gone on for six years. That was a mistake. Phillips used "lengthy" to describe the duration of the attachment. I had no basis for "six years". I must have had a brain/fingers lapse there.

[ArmsOfLove]

He implies the relationship was not sexual. Therefore, it seems just as likely that he simply failed to see that an emotional line was being crossed, as the assumption that he intentionally crossed the line & lied about it. :shrug3 We don't know either way & it's not our place to judge.

I hope this is a time where everyone affected can refocus & find Truth.

Actually - he says they didn't have intercourse. He doesn't say that it wasn't sexual in nature. "Inappropriately romantic and affectionate" leaves lots of room for a physical nature.

All I can say is W-O-W. I am not shocked that he did this - he's human and he's not exactly the first, but to be shaming the world for their *thoughts* about women (when a teenage boy gets an erection that was equated to lusting as sin) and to be in an inappropriate relationship . . . I do hope that the conviction and guilt get to the heart of the matter and bring some serious change in his life. I would love to see a change of position and doctrinal understanding :pray4

[jenny_islander]

Besides the lousy exegesis I dissected a while ago in a post on their "educational mandate," I mostly know Doug Phillips and his coterie as a pack of playacting poseurs. Their "Hazardous Journeys" are absurd. The Alaskan one was a perfectly ordinary business junket at a lodge that specializes in business junkets for the not particularly athletic, but the post-trip report makes it sound like a strenuous wilderness challenge in the middle of nowhere. While I have no first-hand knowledge to apply to the others, people commenting on a hike in the Lower 48 pointed out that based on the post-trip report for that one, his manly dominion-takers were on a route where they must have been regularly overtaken by much older people--women even!--not to mention that they appear to have drastically overpacked. I know for a fact that an earlier "mission trip" to the "wilds of the Amazon" to pass out Bibles to the poor benighted natives was actually a regularly scheduled tour aboard a riverboat that has hot and cold running water and air conditioning. And all this puffery comes with a jacked-up price tag (and lots of spiffy new outfits for Doug Phillips and his friends).

ETA: How could I have forgotten VF's "inspirational" videos featuring Doug Phillips et al. dressed up in uniforms they have no right to wear and standing next to actual veterans?

The price tag, plus the apparent lack of a paper catalog this year, plus the lack of a report on the recent "Hazardous Journey" to Mykonos (a place you do not Google without the family filters on, let's just say--what were they thinking?!) prompts suspicions that he is now confessing to "not having had Biblical relations with that woman" as a sort of plea-bargain in order to escape scrutiny for some much less acceptable transgression. Critics of Phillips have assumed for years that his blatant homosociality to the point of pretending there are no icky gurlz around while he does his "Hazardous Journeys" equates to homosexuality, but the two are not necessarily conjoined, even if he did decide on Mykonos(?!) for one of his "Hazardous Journeys." Something financial, perhaps.

[keepinghome]

I used to love VF. Like seriously I remember wishing my husband was more like Doug Phillips. :-/ I really suspect he was forced into the resignation.


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[Zooey]

Sorta, yes. Everyone in his life can take the high road and do this, and may it humble him right to the ground. He is world-famous for his merciless handling and merciless counseling of how to handle infractions that are mere annoyances compared to this. So, yes, people in his life certainly can make the best choice and give grace to the man who has been graceless to them, but the general public, who paid money to hear him speak and who offered up their families as a petri dish in order to play out his hard-nosed and heavy-handed types of relationships, they certainly DO get to "judge," which you are here seeming to define as "Comparing his IRL output with his loud and obnoxious voice, lo these many years." How on earth else would an adult change their socially inappropriate behavior, if not by reaping public scorn over his DOING exactly what he rails against? :scratch
This.

My observations in this department are probably deeply tainted by "bias confirmation", but it kinda seems like the more someone preaches "wife-only submission" or patriarchy, etc, the more likely they are to have a spectacular fall in their marriage.

Perhaps they begin by being in a difficult marriage for which they assume the antidote is a tight system of rules and control--and become leaders by projecting that everyone else needs rules and control too, or else they'll also stray.

I don't know. Probably, like I say, it's only confirmation bias that makes that pattern stand out. But still....:think
Yeah, I have to say that when I hear the sounds of super-patriarchy,I sort of expect that the next thing I hear will be a spectacular crash.

I am honestly surprised. I had been expecting that the scandal around DP would be involving another man.

[HadassahSukkot]

I used to love VF. Like seriously I remember wishing my husband was more like Doug Phillips. :-/
:hug2

[PaperMomma]

This.


Yeah, I have to say that when I hear the sounds of super-patriarchy,I sort of expect that the next thing I hear will be a spectacular crash.

I am honestly surprised. I had been expecting that the scandal around DP would be involving another man.


Thats what the people on free jinger have been saying for years. :shifty


I'm interested to see what comes of the money investigations. :think I'd guess there's more to this story that will come out.

Katiekind- I've seen the 6year figure in several different places. I don't know if or where that's been confirmed, but I don't think you pulled it out of thin air. :think

It's just sad all around. Knowing a little of what that culture is like and what it's like on the inside... It's just sad. I do hope and pray that this is eye opening for many many VF followers and potential followers, and that they seek out something healthy instead. :pray4

[jenny_islander]

My prediction: A lot of unpleasantly enlightened customers "fall away" from the "ministry" and the people who remain circle the wagons and cite whatever Doug Phillips reaps as a sign of persecution by the world. Also there is a steep dropoff in income.

Actually this may already have happened. Over at Free Jinger, somebody pointed out that as large as VF looms in the world of patriarchal fundamentalist Christianity, that's really a rather small pond. Phillips may already have alienated a large segment of the market for his "wholesome" goods by saying derogatory things about Latter-Day Saints.

[mommy9994]

I'm likely one of the only people here that has an appreciation for VF--not everything they do/sell/teach-- but I'm largely a "eat the meat and spit out the bones" type.

I'm not entirely surprised by all of this. I do feel like maybe this is the aftermath of being found out, and I really don't appreciate the Clinton-esque "I did not have sex with that woman"

[Zooey]

I really don't appreciate the Clinton-esque "I did not have sex with that woman"
Yeah, that is truly.....I mean from Clinton, I kinda laughed & thought, "well, he is a lawyer", but from a religious leader, it was really:yuck :td:td

[LilySue]

Yeah, that is truly.....I mean from Clinton, I kinda laughed & thought, "well, he is a lawyer", but from a religious leader, it was really:yuck :td:td

Yes, I thought that, but then I remembered reading somewhere that Doug Phillips was also a lawyer!

[PaperMomma]

The Wartburg Watch:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/11/01/vision-forum-ministries-president-doug-phillips-resigns-due-to-infidelilty/

[ArmsOfLove]

I am working on a blog that addresses the bigger issue I'm seeing here. But all of my children are running through the room talking to me so it's saved as a draft and will be finished later :doh

[HadassahSukkot]

I'm going to break this, but Julie Anne brought up some good points that I'm still asking:

http ://spiritualsoundingboard. com/2013/11/03/doug-phillips-question-about-pastoral-position-timeline-of-events-and- understanding-true-repentance/

[rjy9343]

The thing that bothers me the most and makes me think he is only sorry he got caught is that he does not offer the other woman an apology. He does not express any sort of remorse at how he treated her or even that he abused his position of power that he would have had over her.

[TestifyToLove]

Sadly, the first confession of infidelity is rarely the full and true confession. I do not believe for one moment that this is the full truth from a man as arrogant and judgmental to those around him as Doug Phillips has been for so long.

I also disagree with the idea that the most likely woman is a hired nanny by the family. Phillips has been around that type of docile, subservient woman his entire adult life. I personally suspect that such a woman wouldn't even garner attention from him. Rather a woman who was stronger and considered herself equal to him would be far more likely to draw his attention, whether she were the wife of someone in the movement who didn't practice the same soul-sucking dominionism as Phillips and had a more egalitarian relationship under the label or a woman outside the movement who found the dominionism as quaint and silly.

[rjy9343]

I might be cynical, but I cannot help but wonder if this is the only confession that he will be making.

[Zooey]

I might be cynical, but I cannot help but wonder if this is the only confession that he will be making.
:shifty
I must be even more cynical, then.
I keep wondering, if this is what he is confessing to, what on earth is he never, not in a million years, going to tell folks.

:shifty

[PaperMomma]

:shifty
I must be even more cynical, then.
I keep wondering, if this is what he is confessing to, what on earth is he never, not in a million years, going to tell folks.

:shifty

Exaaaaactly.

[HadassahSukkot]

Last week, I announced my resignation from the presidency of Vision Forum Ministries, a 501(c)3 organization. I retain ownership of Vision Forum, Inc., a distinct and private company.....
ht tp://www.visionforum .com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=%2F2013%2F11%2F10958%2F

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

This was pretty to the point too. I think pretty much along the same lines and I feel somewhat cynical saying so, but I've seen it over and over again so many times. :sigh

ht tp://becomingworldly. wordpress.com/2013/11/05/we-all-sin-a-15-step-path-to-forgiveness-for-doug-phillips/

[HadassahSukkot]

How Doug Phillips Wreaked Havoc on My Family (http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/how-doug-phillips-wreaked-havoc-on-my-family/)



Doug Phillips: The Big Scandal You Didn't Hear About and Why It Matters (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-ingersoll/doug-phillips-the-big-scandal_b_4195155.html)



Doug Phillips: Repentance and Restoration – Is it Possible? (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/06/doug-phillips-repentance-and-restoration-is-it-possible/)



To My Sister and the Vision Forum Victim No One’s Talking About (http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/to-my-sister-and-the-vision-forum-victim-no-ones-talking-about/)

[PaperMomma]

Ooh, this one was good too(it was linked in your third link).

http://becomingworldly.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/we-all-sin-a-15-step-path-to-forgiveness-for-doug-phillips/

[illinoismommy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-ingersoll/doug-phillips-the-big-scandal_b_4195155.html

None of the links offered say how this came out, was discovered, what?

And who is the woman? is it an adult, a coworker? how in a world of women who stay at home with babies did he have the opportunity to spend enough time with another woman to develop feelings?

[HadassahSukkot]

:shrug3 No idea. Word on the street says it's someone in the movement, but I'm tied by confidentiality to say any inklings of what I know. When it comes out, it will be ugly. IF it ever comes out. :shifty

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

Ooh, this one was good too(it was linked in your third link).

http://becomingworldly.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/we-all-sin-a-15-step-path-to-forgiveness-for-doug-phillips/
I can't believe I missed that! :doh

[PaperMomma]

PM me.....!!!!! :shifty

[bliss]

Color me not surprised. People who have messed up paradigms of women and sexuality do messed up things revolving around either women or sexuality.

[Heather R]

He is scheduled to speak at our provincial home school conference this spring. I wasn't planning to attend because I didn't want to support him, so I'm selfishly hoping they will hire someone else instead! I emailed to ask who will be replacing him in light of his resignation, so we will see... (Three years ago, the keynote speakers were the Clarksons! What happened?!)

[Zooey]

Color me not surprised. People who have messed up paradigms of women and sexuality do messed up things revolving around either women or sexuality.
:yes4 You just nailed it.:clap

[J3K]

I'm awaiting finding out who this "temptress" is. I'm betting it's a "rebellious teen".

I quit reading their stuff years ago. I kept thinking 'I'm FOR my kids , I'm on THEIR side...all this garbage insists it's a war that I gotta win. It didn't feel like war when they put that sweet newborn in my hands."

(it does feel sorta like war sometimes now... but because we've not treated it as such , it's just the minor incidents that feel like that ...it's not a lifestyle)

[rjy9343]

This might just be AF talking, but it feels like a war. It is just a war for her, not against her. I feel like every day I must fight for her because she cannot. Because if I don't, who will?
But even still, I have said (um maybe more like yelled) on more than one occasion that my child is not my enemy. Satan is my enemy and it is pretty hard to confuse the two. One wants my eternal destruction and the other just wants to figure out how this amazing thing called life works.

[J3K]

This might just be AF talking, but it feels like a war. It is just a war for her, not against her. (bolded emphasis mine)

I think that is the key , right there. You nailed it. :clap It's not a war against your child. Every book , every person , every website I was visiting was insisting that this parenting job was a war to keep your kids under control. The kids were always portrayed as rebellious in nature , inherently sinful , egocentric and ready to take over the house if *I* didn't lay down the law and show them who was boss. It just wasn't what I was experiencing in my own home.

I'm sorta going thru that now with a nineteen year old daughter (wanting to take over the house and run it her way) , but it's not out of a malicious desire to unseat me as her mother , it's out of a need to make this place more "hers". I have had to remind her a few times that this is my house and when she has her own home she can run it as she sees fit...but it's not a WAR. I can't fathom the type of fighting/arguing we'd be doing right now if I'd been treating her as all those forums/books/"experts" had told me to.

I hope this is the first step in bringing Vision Forum to the ground. Probably the first of many steps and maybe a baby step , but a step is a step..... I hope this rocks some of it's followers and makes them question everything.

[teamommy]

Vision forum has set off my yuck-meter from the get-go, as has Doug Phillips. It is so bad that even when I hear a homeschooling acquaintance say she bought xyz from them or wants to hear Doug or Voddie speak, I think that maybe we could never be friends. :shifty (I do know how judgemental than that sounds, but that is my initial reaction). I hate that they represent the views so many homeschoolers, but in a way, I guess those people already somewhat think what they think, and Vf just preys on that. :-/ I saw a video once of Doug at a conference where he was interviewing couples where the wife had had a professional career and then quit to care for family, lauding them as to how godly she was to submit to her husband in this way. It made me :sick to think that someone would think that I quit my career out of submission to my husband and adherence to some sick lifestyle imprisoning me and our daughters and raising our sons to be narcissists. :sick

As to Phillips, I don't know what to say. We really don't know what happened, so that this is all speculation and gossip. He is human. Men and women, Christians too, who are not involved in patriarchy in any way also sin in adultery. It is right to step down. It should not have taken so long, especially if this has been years-long. :-/

[BarefootBetsy]

Reading the articles about this has been fascinating to me. VF has concerned me for quite a few years now. I'm hoping that this incident will help open people's eyes to the ick and incorrect theology, but I'm not holding my breath :(

This doesn't surprise me at all, sadly, and not just because anyone can be tempted and sin in this way :no Many (most?) of the stay at home daughters haven't left to get married and having that many young (in their 20s) women around who have been trained from infancy to obey men and taught that they exist only to further the goals and "visions" of men could only lead to instances of this sort of thing, IMO :sigh

[teamommy]

I'm not sure what you mean by most of the young women. I don't really know of many of these families; I do know some large families that like VF, but their daughters have gone to college and are not having arranged marriages. :shrug3 I have a feeling that families that are very into all of this wouldn't associate much with families like mine and others I know, anyway.

How do we know that most of the women are still single and listen to whatever DP would say. I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but I get the sense that a lot of what is on the Internet about this is rumor and gossip. I tend to take anonymous bloggers and forum posters from freejinger and the like with a grain of salt. :think

[Katigre]

I'm not sure what you mean by most of the young women. I don't really know of many of these families; I do know some large families that like VF, but their daughters have gone to college and are not having arranged marriages. :shrug3 I have a feeling that families that are very into all of this wouldn't associate much with families like mine and others I know, anyway.

How do we know that most of the women are still single and listen to whatever DP would say. I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but I get the sense that a lot of what is on the Internet about this is rumor and gossip. I tend to take anonymous bloggers and forum posters from freejinger and the like with a grain of salt. :think
If their daughters are going to college then they are NOT VF families :no.

The issue of the first generation of girls raised under these ideas, now in their 20's, is one that even heads of the movement like the Botkins sisters have addressed on their blog:
http://visionarydaughters. com/2010/07/why-am-i-not-married

The Botkins are famous for their book/dvd/tracks about the importance of being a Stay At Home Daughter, serving your father's vision until you serve your husband's vision. They're now 24 & 27, unmarried, which is somewhat of an issue given the emphasis in the Dominionist community on marrying young and having many children.


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[HadassahSukkot]

The lock-step VF-ers usually also go along with the Botkin girls and their family who teach about stay at home daughters. It is not for women to go away to school because that is sinful and it is their parents who are to teach them all they are to know of the world, and then hand them over to their hand picked courtship person who is always monitored at all times and never let to be alone with them until after the wedding when they are allowed to do whatever married people do, including him bossing her life around like her father did before him.

I'm totally not joking or exaggerating it. That is how VF and the Botkins work. We know so many of the Botkin girls are at home and so many of the inner circle of VF's home congregation are as well because they brag on it all the time that the daddies haven't found Mr Perfect. Not to mention some of us have connections to family members who left VF/Botkinism and are trying to help others do the same by continuously feeding them information when they do have limited contact. Some of them are on Free Jinger, but many of them aren't but are former homeschoolers.

To them (lock-step VF-ers), blogging is the internet sin of women (this is documented on a couple of the guys having said this including D.P.) so none of them want to be caught doing so, and their daughters are not allowed to go on the internet unless they're networking to do conferences or support the movement and daddy is looking over their shoulder. :shrug3

You'd be surprised the crazy and ick that goes down and isn't reported or does not get out except when people leave, hide out a bit and get healthy. If you look like you might say something, you are threatened by the elders with legal action OR you are placated and moved around within the movement. :sigh

Its crazy pants, but it is what it is.:(

[BarefootBetsy]

Katigre and HS pretty much covered it :yes

[twentysixcats]

I didn't know they were anti women blogging. I guess I don't know as many as I thought I did then. (I used to read a lot of the super-fundy blogs, where they were encouraging this lifestyle...)

Sent from my DROID4

[HadassahSukkot]

Yup. Multiple documented incidences here: h ttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/11/the-female-sin-of- the-internet.html

[graciousmomma]

I really agree with teamommy on the narcissism comment :yes It's not just the Vision Forum movement. So much of the conservative homeschooling parenting advice and materials are really self-focused, and it breeds more self-focus as the children grow up. The fruit of the movement is not good, and I believe it is a ploy of the devil to tear families apart and cause damage to believers. Satan appearing as an "angel of light", and all that. The entire premise of these parenting methods revolves around what is convenient for the parent, not what is best for the child.

Plus the fear-mongering - "You are saving your children's souls by parenting them this way." :no The Bible clearly states that it is Jesus Christ alone who saves souls, and to think that parents have power equal to that of Jesus Christ is a narcissistic concept in itself.

Lastly, if you look at the histories of people who become narcissists, many of their childhoods were much the way that these harsh parenting gurus have advocated for. There is an encouragement for everything to look great on the outside, but oftentimes everything is not OK on the inside. The Bible verse about whitewashed tombs comes to mind. Also, the fact that this mindset requires much control over others is an attractive feature to people who already have narcissistic tendencies.

[ArmsOfLove]

If their daughters are going to college then they are NOT VF families :no.

The issue of the first generation of girls raised under these ideas, now in their 20's, is one that even heads of the movement like the Botkins sisters have addressed on their blog:
http://visionarydaughters. com/2010/07/why-am-i-not-married

The Botkins are famous for their book/dvd/tracks about the importance of being a Stay At Home Daughter, serving your father's vision until you serve your husband's vision. They're now 24 & 27, unmarried, which is somewhat of an issue given the emphasis in the Dominionist community on marrying young and having many children.


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ewwww ew ew ew ewwwww

Become a girl that a godly man will want to marry.

The bad news is, none of us is naturally likeable, desirable or eligible. Because of sin, we all start out as ugly stepsisters; and we don’t naturally become Cinderella upon turning 18. Put yourself in a young man’s shoes, and ask yourself what he might want and need. You might be surprised by how you measure up. If all the good young men you know aren’t interested in you, who are you going to blame?

This is from that blog from the Botkin girls - more blaming the women. If you aren't married, it must be because you are inherently undesirable and haven't done the WORK to change your natural state.

How horribly they must think of themselves :cry

[J3K]

and not allowed to dress themselves , adopt their own hairstyles /makeup , not allowed to take classes outside the home to enrich themselves...there simply isn't a chance for them to grow and be who God truly meant for them to be. Sad it's blamed on the girl when truth is...it's the men who should get the blame. :cry

[BarefootBetsy]

This is a good article about why VF's method of raising daughters specifically can contribute to this sort of thing happening.

http://www.thatmom.com/2013/11/05/thinking-thoughtfully-about-doug-phillips-resignation-part-two-how-the-patriocentrists-raise-daughters/

Most of it has already been said, but it's a good read nonetheless :yes

[keepinghome]

Wow!!! Its all falling into place now! Back when I was a VFer it seemed like many of the SAHD blogs I had been following suddenly quit (Voddie Bauchum's daughter being the one I most remember since she posted very frequently).


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[Joyanne]

I had never heard that about them not wanting women to blog. Weird. Kim Coghlan blogs daily and her husband works there in a fairly high up position. Stacey Mc Donald blogs and don't they associate themselves with VF??


In Christ,
Joy

[HadassahSukkot]

Usually the approved lady bloggers are lock step and there to help be enforcers. Think of them like bouncers inside a club.

[HadassahSukkot]

whoa. breaking:

The Closing of Vision Forum Ministries

In light of the serious sins which have resulted in Doug Phillips’s resignation from Vision Forum Ministries, the Board of Directors has determined that it is in the best interests of all involved to discontinue operations...
http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/11/the-board-of-vision-forum-ministries-announces-the-closing-of-vision-forum-ministries/


:jawdrop :pray4

[HuggaBuggaMommy]

I'm really surprised.

[PaperMomma]

Whoa. I'm not surprised, but wow, that's a huge deal.

Eta: And can I just say: I really hope this is the beginning of the end for the 'Christian patriarchy/dominionist' movement. :yes :shifty :pray4

[J3K]

:clap Been hoping they'd shut down. I seriously hope/wish/pray that this leads to some serious discussions started by women and led by women to revolt against the sickness inside the patriarchy movement.


***
edit: I also believe there is WAY MORE to this story ... shutting down the entire organization because the leader fell.... something BIG is going on behind closed doors. I have my snarky suspicions that I won't put out there..most of them are truly unkind. :shifty I hope someone steps forward and spills.

[CelticJourney]

I just went to the Vision Forum catelog and there are 61 items with Doug Phillip's 'fingerprint' on them. He is so pervasive, I'm not sure they could seperate him out. I imagine they will close VF and start something new under 'new managament' and editing out any DP materials.

[sweetpeasmommy]

Most likely they will lay low a bit and then wrap that poo in a shiny new package. :shifty

[BarefootBetsy]

Wow.... :jawdrop

There definitely has to be something big happening behind closed doors. If I had any doubts before, I have none now :shifty

I really hope that this spurs some good discussions and changes in that community :yes

[tigerlily]

I was shocked to see that he resigned from his church back in February.

That's a big amount of time till he stepped down at the end of October and it seems some people are saying it was hushed up until just now.:scratch (I have no idea of the veracity of that).

[twentysixcats]

I'm SO curious. It seems there is a lot that's not being said. I mean, an emotional affair wouldn't result in all this, I wouldn't think.

Sent from my DROID4

[PrincessAnika]

also finding it interesting that the non-profit section - vf ministries - is being shut down, but the for-profit section - vf inc - is remaining as is....

[ArmsOfLove]

whoa. breaking:

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/11/the-board-of-vision-forum-ministries-announces-the-closing-of-vision-forum-ministries/


:jawdrop :pray4
I wonder if his wife isn't going along with things :think I really want her to stand up for herself in this.

[HadassahSukkot]

I just went to the Vision Forum catelog and there are 61 items with Doug Phillip's 'fingerprint' on them. He is so pervasive, I'm not sure they could seperate him out. I imagine they will close VF and start something new under 'new managament' and editing out any DP materials.
They're closing VF Ministries, not VF Inc. I really think they'll just rebrand and possibly keep his books because they sell so much, unless those sinS were just so bad they can't any more. :shifty I'm willing to be shocked though.


---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

I wonder if his wife isn't going along with things :think I really want her to stand up for herself in this.
:pray4

[J3K]

Sometimes I have these weird feelings...almost like a random thought , then later they are proved correct (thru time and revealing of the details.) I have a STRONG feeling about the real story , I'm hoping it's not true. For so many reasons.

[BarefootBetsy]

Sometimes I have these weird feelings...almost like a random thought , then later they are proved correct (thru time and revealing of the details.) I have a STRONG feeling about the real story , I'm hoping it's not true. For so many reasons.

See, now I'm all curious about what you have a feeling about... :shifty

There are many things I'm hoping it wasn't :( He had so much power in that community... :nails

[rjy9343]

I don't know that I really hope it is anything at all. What I am hoping is that this will finally cause Christians to sit up and look at what VF and others have been spouting and getting this garbage out of our churches and schools.

[J3K]

I deeply hope/wish that his wife has the courage to divorce him and get healthy.

[rjy9343]

I would like even more for him to get healthy and renounce what he has said.

[Zooey]

:clap Been hoping they'd shut down. I seriously hope/wish/pray that this leads to some serious discussions started by women and led by women to revolt against the sickness inside the patriarchy movement.


***
edit: I also believe there is WAY MORE to this story ... shutting down the entire organization because the leader fell.... something BIG is going on behind closed doors. I have my snarky suspicions that I won't put out there..most of them are truly unkind. :shifty I hope someone steps forward and spills.
I agree.....I have a couple of ideas that I have swirling in my head, but I am so not going to say them out loud. Not on the 'net, I'm not.....

Sometimes I have these weird feelings...almost like a random thought , then later they are proved correct (thru time and revealing of the details.) I have a STRONG feeling about the real story , I'm hoping it's not true. For so many reasons.Yeah, I know what you mean; I have had some really :sick:sickcreepy thoughts & :mad:sick:madfeelings about this mess, too.
And I join you in hoping that I am wrong.....but I don't think so.

[HadassahSukkot]

...Some reading the words of my resignation have questioned if there was an inappropriate physical component with an unmarried woman. There was, and it was intermittent over a period of years. . .ht tp://homeschoolers anonymous.wordpress.com/2013/11/14/doug-phillips-clarifies-his-resignation-statement/

Please pray for this young lady, her family and the Phillips family. This woman went unmarried all through her 20′s to be there for DP’s every need and whim. I strongly urge anyone who may know her identity to please protect her. If she herself decides to discloses her identity, that’s one thing, but she should not have to see her name on the internet publicly connected with this because someone else disclosed it without permission.
http: //spiritualsoundingboard. com/2013/11/14/supporting-survivors-after-doug-phillips-apostasy/

:-/ :bheart :pray4

[BarefootBetsy]

That poor girl :( :pray2

[peekaboomama]

Heartbreaking.

[twentysixcats]

Wow.

[J3K]

Please pray for this young lady, her family and the Phillips family. This woman went unmarried all through her 20′s to be there for DP’s every need and whim.

So much sickness in that statement...so deep , so disturbing... and I really feel we haven't heard even the tip of the iceberg.

All the women in the VF belief system do what this young lady did. She was fulfilling her VF destiny...to be a maid/servant to a man.

I am really upset over this. My strong feelings are getting stronger every time I open this thread... I may have to bow out of the conversation.

:pray

[mom2boys]

Ditto the rebranding expectation.
And the heartbreak over the girl. :( I hope and pray this doesn't drive her away from her faith...as convoluted as it is, God still knows her.


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[rjy9343]

I am not sure if I want to cry for this girl or beat the fool out out of DP for her. I really hope her father is supporting her and has come down hard on DP for the abuse of his daughter.

[Zooey]

I am not sure if I want to cry for this girl or beat the fool out out of DP for her. I really hope her father is supporting her and has come down hard on DP for the abuse of his daughter.
I know. I think really really ungentle thoughts about this miserable guy, preying on a young person.:hissyfit:biting :mutter :banghead :ph :hissyfit

And probably others. I mean, lets face it: we only know part of the story. Who knows how mnay others he has used & thrown away?

[HadassahSukkot]

More info on supporting survivors: http ://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/15/supporting-survivors-of-doug- phillips-apostasy-part-2/

[mwwr]

I am not sure if I want to cry for this girl or beat the fool out out of DP for her. I really hope her father is supporting her and has come down hard on DP for the abuse of his daughter.

It would be lovely if some *man* would encourage this (and any other victims) to press charges. :cry Saying *man* because these women need the wrong against them validated. It would be awesome if the victim/s could find the courage to stand up for themselves, but that is soooo unlikely.

[HadassahSukkot]

There are more things coming out, not ness. about the affair(s).

Thought I would keep you guys updated:

http ://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/21/chalcedon-foundation-privately-donated-funds-to-joe-taylor-to-help-his-legal-defense-against-doug-phillips/

[tigerlily]

There are more things coming out, not ness. about the affair(s).

Thought I would keep you guys updated:

http ://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/21/chalcedon-foundation-privately-donated-funds-to-joe-taylor-to-help-his-legal-defense-against-doug-phillips/

Am I the only one confused by this article? I get that there saying that Doug Phillips stole intellectual ideas. But everything in that article seems murky. :scratch

(the confusion could come beause dd2 is trying to discuss her book with me and convince me to download Pet Rescue Saga while I'm trying to read it.) :giggle

[rjy9343]

I can't say that I am surprised that he stole ideas. I can't remember who said it first, but most of my life I have heard that a man who is not honest in his marriage is not honest in other places.

[HadassahSukkot]

Some years ago (Murky on the details) there was some thing about VF getting a dinosaur. They somehow got into a fight over who actually owns it and what to do with it. Hence referencing the legal battle there.

But, it solidifies some information that had been swirling about links to Rushdoony and a few other reconstructionist/America = promised land people who believe in Patriarchy and are quite racist/isolationist in their thinking.

JA had heard the solid info in her comments and went about constructing her post around those. I do believe there will be a few more posts forthcoming with a lot more information from what she said on facebook.

[Zooey]

Am I the only one confused by this article? I get that there saying that Doug Phillips stole intellectual ideas. But everything in that article seems murky. :scratch

(the confusion could come beause dd2 is trying to discuss her book with me and convince me to download Pet Rescue Saga while I'm trying to read it.) :giggle

As I understand it, DP made a documentary ( from which he made $$$$),
in which he claimed that he, not Joe Taylor, actually found/raised dinosur remains--and sued Taylor for trying to get the story staright.

As a friend of mine was want to say: "Some people seem to belong to the :shiftyAtomic Church of Me:shifty", as you see, "Me!! Its all about Me!!":doh.

[HadassahSukkot]

In the Wake of the Doug Phillips Affair, a Mother Grieves and Seeks Our Prayers (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/23/in-the-wake-of-the-doug-phillips-affair-a-mother-grieves-and-seeks-our-prayers/)

[J3K]

Subbing to read the link when I have more time....

I do feel for those who blindly followed DP and now have their whole foundation shattered. I do hope they learn to lean on God instead of DP....I really hope they dig deep and find out what the bible REALLY says about the stuff DP claimed was truth.

[emerald]

We don't live too far away from the VF headquarters. And I'm surprised that none of the local homeschoolers that I know (we homeschool, too) have said anything about this yet. The same people will comment when a politician does the same thing.

[derdsgirl]

We don't live too far away from the VF headquarters. And I'm surprised that none of the local homeschoolers that I know (we homeschool, too) have said anything about this yet. The same people will comment when a politician does the same thing.

I have been surprised by the lack of comments from those I know that HEAVILY follow VF too.

[ShiriChayim]

People are quick to point it out when someone they don't like messes up so big; but when it's "their" guy they tend to minimize/ignore or keep quiet as a defense mechanism. From the outside it seems like this should be a big wake up call to people, but the way VF is set up, people are more likely to attribute it to a spiritual attack than an indicator of anything theologically wrong or basic integrity issues in DP.

[Zooey]

People are quick to point it out when someone they don't like messes up so big; but when it's "their" guy they tend to minimize/ignore or keep quiet as a defense mechanism. From the outside it seems like this should be a big wake up call to people, but the way VF is set up, people are more likely to attribute it to a spiritual attack than an indicator of anything theologically wrong or basic integrity issues in DP.
This.

[HadassahSukkot]

Doug Phillips: “Disowns” Former Vision Forum Executive Assistant to President, Peter Bradrick, Calls Him “Destroyer” When Confronted about Sins (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/11/29/doug-phillips-disowns-former-vision-forum-executive-assistant-to-president-peter-bradrick-calls-him-destroyer-when-confronted-about-sins/)

For our next installment in the Vision Forum saga, Peter Bradrick breaks his silence (http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/68547543311/for-our-next-installment-in-the-vision-forum-saga)

[CelticJourney]

I'm going to totally speculate (and even hope), based on the second article, that Phillips is trying to turn this on the woman and that there is enough integrity left in this community that they see this as the evil that it is. I'm basing this on the 'grabbing the life boats and leaving women to die in the icy water' accusation that is quoted.

[BarefootBetsy]

I'm going to totally speculate (and even hope), based on the second article, that Phillips is trying to turn this on the woman and that there is enough integrity left in this community that they see this as the evil that it is. I'm basing this on the 'grabbing the life boats and leaving women to die in the icy water' accusation that is quoted.

That's what I'm hoping...

[ShiriChayim]

I'm going to totally speculate (and even hope), based on the second article, that Phillips is trying to turn this on the woman and that there is enough integrity left in this community that they see this as the evil that it is. I'm basing this on the 'grabbing the life boats and leaving women to die in the icy water' accusation that is quoted.

The blaming the woman was really only a matter of time. The reaction of the rest of the community will be very telling.

[HadassahSukkot]

Chris Jeub has an interesting post about the situation: http://www .jeub family.com/2013/11/30/revisiting-vision-forum/ <-- remove spaces

[SilverMoon]

:shiver

The patriarchal church I left almost 3 years ago is listed in the NCFIC. It's through that website that the church was growing.


eta: whoa, Mr Jeub has 16 children!

[illinoismommy]

Speculating ... What if the woman is pregnant?

[twentysixcats]

Speculating ... What if the woman is pregnant?
Interesting thought... do you think he's telling the truth that while it was physical, they never actually had intercourse?

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

Chris Jeub has an interesting post about the situation: http://www .jeub family.com/2013/11/30/revisiting-vision-forum/ <-- remove spaces
Thanks for sharing that. I appreciated his thoughts, especially in the "Judgement" section. I have heard almost nothing from the pro-VF crowd, which probably just means that I've been successful in removing myself from those circles.

[MercyInDisguise]

Interesting thought... do you think he's telling the truth that while it was physical, they never actually had intercourse?[COLOR=Silver]

All I can think of is "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." :giggle

Idk if he's telling the truth or not, but him phrasing it like that makes me think he's attempting to minimize his sin.

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk

[bliss]

"It was physical but we didn't have intercourse" is totally code for "there was sooo much intercourse" :shifty
(Disclaimer:IMO. But like, in multiple situations. I've *never* heard 'everything but' without later hearing the sheepish 'oh alright we did that too :O'. I'm just sayin'. :shifty)

[illinoismommy]

"It was physical but we didn't have intercourse" is totally code for "there was sooo much intercourse" :shifty
(Disclaimer:IMO. But like, in multiple situations. I've *never* heard 'everything but' without later hearing the sheepish 'oh alright we did that too :O'. I'm just sayin'. :shifty)

Totally

And it's been a little bit since it's come out. It'd sure be inconvenient for him ...

[twentysixcats]

Yeah I'm very much an S... I take everything at face value without considering that they might be saying the opposite. :giggle

[PaperMomma]

I've always thought there's a possibility that "I did not know her Biblically" could mean absolutely nothing if "knowing someone biblically" means intercourse with your wife- since this women was not his wife... :shifty :shrug

[CelticJourney]

I think we are crossing a line we don't need to cross.

[mwwr]

All I can think of is "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." :giggle



This. :sigh

[Bonnie]

Really, IMO, the specifics of his wrongdoing aren't nearly as important as his response to/at those who have attempted to come alongside him and hold him appropriately accountable. It seems clear to me that they have gone public only after soul-searching and pain, and I pray for them.

[MercyInDisguise]

Really, IMO, the specifics of his wrongdoing aren't nearly as important as his response to/at those who have attempted to come alongside him and hold him appropriately accountable. It seems clear to me that they have gone public only after soul-searching and pain, and I pray for them.

:tu

[Zooey]

Really, IMO, the specifics of his wrongdoing aren't nearly as important as his response to/at those who have attempted to come alongside him and hold him appropriately accountable. It seems clear to me that they have gone public only after soul-searching and pain, and I pray for them.
Agreed.

[HadassahSukkot]

update: http ://www.patheos .com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/01/is-vision-forum-gone.html

[twentysixcats]

Wow, I had heard rumblings, but I didn't expect it to all be gone like that.

[BarefootBetsy]

Two months. They cut and run in the space of TWO MONTHS after the first "confession." That's pretty impressive (to me, maybe I'm just naive :blush) for such a large ministry/business.

[rjy9343]

I thought there would be some serious image cleaning and then it would be business as usual. I never imagined they would fold like this.

[J3K]

That tells me it's MUCH deeper than they've let on. I suspect s3x with an underage girl...Texas has no statute of limitations on that sort of thing. Underage being younger than 17.

I pray the girl that was used ( as I seriously doubt it was fully consented with the main teachings being "submit to all men") gets OUT , gets counseling and presses charges if applicable.

[illinoismommy]

I think the fact that his closest male supporters didn't feel that he was repentant caused the fold. That's more than just the main guy.

I wonder if we will ever know.... I am curious.

[Zooey]

That tells me it's MUCH deeper than they've let on. I suspect s3x with an underage girl...Texas has no statute of limitations on that sort of thing. Underage being younger than 17.

I pray the girl that was used ( as I seriously doubt it was fully consented with the main teachings being "submit to all men") gets OUT , gets counseling and presses charges if applicable.
Very much agreed. Even if she was of age, she had no will of her own.:snooty

:-/Word is it's one of the nannies.

I think there's more that we don't know. Speculation on some sites has it that there is a LOT of money gone missing.
And meanwhile, on a bunch of other sites that had been bought up by VF (:shiftyor maybe DP himslef?:shifty) over a period of time, I hear that there are a lot of VF goods still being sold from "stock on hand". I would love to know whose pocket is being lined......

[CelticJourney]

I am sure there are a LOT of rumors going around. Let's be really careful how we handle this, please.

[illinoismommy]

http://jensgems.wordpress. com/2013/12/11/doug-phillips-affair-or-criminal-clergy-sexual-abuse/

Yikes... Someone must know who she is, there's details as to where she came from !?

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

"In February 2012* Doug wasn’t even trying to conceal his “inappropriate relationship” with Cassandra. He was parading her around the San Antonio Independent Film Festival (Feb 23-25) as they walked as lovers, hand in hand. Eye witnesses were stunned and assumed Doug Phillips had just completely lost his mind."

Where did she get all this? :scratch. It's very detailed

[CelticJourney]

http://jensgems.wordpress. com/2013/12/11/doug-phillips-affair-or-criminal-clergy-sexual-abuse/

Yikes... Someone must know who she is, there's details as to where she came from !?

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

"In February 2012* Doug wasn’t even trying to conceal his “inappropriate relationship” with Cassandra. He was parading her around the San Antonio Independent Film Festival (Feb 23-25) as they walked as lovers, hand in hand. Eye witnesses were stunned and assumed Doug Phillips had just completely lost his mind."

Where did she get all this? :scratch. It's very detailed

Wow....that's a LOT of detail.

[Zooey]

http://jensgems.wordpress. com/2013/12/11/doug-phillips-affair-or-criminal-clergy-sexual-abuse/

Yikes... Someone must know who she is, there's details as to where she came from !?

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

"In February 2012* Doug wasn’t even trying to conceal his “inappropriate relationship” with Cassandra. He was parading her around the San Antonio Independent Film Festival (Feb 23-25) as they walked as lovers, hand in hand. Eye witnesses were stunned and assumed Doug Phillips had just completely lost his mind."

Where did she get all this? :scratch. It's very detailed
Former members of his church, I think.

[ilovewest]

YOWZA.
Bless that little girls heart. :sick

[houseforjoy]

i am not sure as to where all this is coming from. i mean i could write a blog post saying all kinds of stuff, and have people assume it is true. :shrug3


i am not saying it is NOT true, i am just saying we really have no way of knowing. i don't feel comfortable just blindly trusting some blogger who may or may not be a former member of a church, work associate, or whatever.

i do pray for the girl(s) who were led into this abusive belief system :(

[twentysixcats]

Are you questioning the blogger (Jen)? She is a former member of his church. I first found her blog back in 2006? or 2007? Anyway, she's been around for a long time and has a pretty strong stance against Phillips and patriarchy in general.

As for where she got her info, I am curious about that as well. I wish she had included a note explaining that.

ETA: Just realized the author of that post wasn't Jen, but T.W. Easton, who I know nothing about.

[HadassahSukkot]

Boerne Christian Assembly Elders Release Statement Regarding Doug Phillips of Vision Forum (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/01/01/boerne-christian-assembly-elders-release-statement-regarding-doug-phillips-of-vision-forum/)



I do not trust Jen or T.W. Eston. There are ethical concerns about Jen's blog. I know a few people closer than Jen is to the situation and they are not revealing *anything* about the girls/women involved because that is a) their story b) their privacy c) unethical to ruin them further after what they have been taught over and over within the system about their rights and duty and what will happen if they sin like this d) considering that Doug said he'd leave his wife for the person(s) involved and these people are *ruined*

If you comment on that blog, know you are not safe if you decide to challenge with the status quo (http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2014/01/07/a-warning-to-commenters-be-aware-of-potential-blog-ownermoderator-intrusiveness/). I do not know who TW is, s/he has been stalking other bloggers who have commented or spoken about the situation. Jen is still entrenched (whoever she really is) TW is still entrenched (whoever s/he is) and there are some other things I've been hearing from regular readers/commenters as well.

It is probably best not to speculate too much until more news comes out of the camp from those intimately involved. :shifty

[CelticJourney]

....I do not trust Jen or T.W. Eston. There are ethical concerns about Jen's blog.

.....It is probably best not to speculate too much until more news comes out of the camp from those intimately involved. :shiftyThank you. We need to approach this with a great deal of caution.

[BarefootBetsy]

Yes, I have serious concerns about Jen and Eston as well.

[twentysixcats]

Thank you. I needed the reminder not to trust everything I read.

[purple_kangaroo]

It really bothers me that they published the name and photo of a woman who is not a public figure or teacher, whom they claim is a "cougar" and give all sorts of sordid accusations about her that can't be verified.

[SilverMoon]

Where and who? I think I missed that.

[BarefootBetsy]

It was on the Jen's Gems blog.

[SilverMoon]

I thought the name was a pseudonym, but the picture of the woman is her hands. Unless I'm not looking at the correct blog post. I've read the one posted a few responses above.

[purple_kangaroo]

I don't want to link to it, but it's titled something about another sex scandal, a few posts back on the Jen's Gems blog.

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

I thought the name was a pseudonym, but the picture of the woman is her hands. Unless I'm not looking at the correct blog post. I've read the one posted a few responses above.

It's not a pseudonym. They posted the woman's real name and a photo showing her face, accusing her of predatory behavior and adultery.

[SilverMoon]

I found a blog post about another member of the church, with her name and her picture. That's in the blog post "Yet Another Doug Philips Sex Scandal".
That's not Cassandra, as the blog post from a pp above explicitly says the blogger will call that person by a name, implying it isn't her real name, which is Cassandra.
But wow, this is a really deep problem. If it's true, I'm not surprised since the atmosphere of such a cult is very insular.

[ilovewest]

The article about the other 'cougar' woman with her picture bothered me too. I can't say that I doubt any of that article or the ones about the DP affair are true, but each time I read one of Jens posts I come away with the feeling that I'm not reading the writing of someone any more emotionally healthy than those she writes about. I understand she sustained a gross level of spiritual abuse at these men's/this cults hands. Many red flags go up in my mind as I read her.

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

From The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/31/alone-yet-not-alone-inside-the-conservative-christian-movie-the-oscars-ousted.html)...

On Wednesday, the board of governors of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences took a near-unprecedented step when they rescinded the Best Original Song Oscar nomination for “Alone Yet Not Alone,” the theme song from an unknown independent movie of same name.

The film’s cast and crew ...brings together players from several different strands of the right-wing evangelical filmmaking world: one based around Patrick Henry College... and another group closely tied to Vision Forum Ministries...

...If there’s an even deeper shade of red on the conservative evangelical spectrum, it’s in west Texas, where Doug Phillips has, since the early 2000s, been creating a bizarro-Hollywood for radical right-wing filmmakers. ...In 2004, Phillips’ Vision Forum Ministries launched the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival, an annual confab for films made by young homeschooled Christian filmmakers and heavily favoring movies with political themes, like opposition to feminism and socialism. (The festival has been suspended in the wake of Vision Forum’s closure.)

[HadassahSukkot]

:yes2 I've been following that closely since they were nominated.

[knitlove]

There was an npr story on the song this morning, they were finding it odd that it got pulled when other songs had more campaining.

[Soliloquy]

That's odd. If it's a good song it deserves to be nominated, no matter how whacky the people in that group are.

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[HadassahSukkot]

This should give some background:

Rumors abound online (http://theweek.com/article/index/255276/alone-yet-not-alone-the-shady-story-behind-2014s-most-obscure-oscar-nominee) regarding the apparent unethical actions, or at least breach of etiquette, of those involved. There appear to be conflicts of interest with William Ross and Bruce Broughton, the writer and composer of this original song, and their connections with the Academy.
http ://jensgems .wordpress.com/2014/01/22/alone-yet-not-alone-the-tangled-web-of-the-academy-nomination/

It is not at all surprising to me that the dominionist crowd has managed to finally finagle an Oscar nomination. Not because the song being nominated is Oscar-worthy — it’s mediocre at best — but because the song’s originators have friends in high places: Bruce Broughton is a former Governor of the Academy and a former head of its music branch, and William Ross is conductor of the Oscar ceremony’s orchestra. It sounds very much like something politically-minded billionaire James Leininger (http://www.alternet.org/story/152330/the_religious_right_sugar-daddy_who_brought_us_rick_perry), the father of Tracy Leininger Craven and likely a strong historical supporter of Vision Forum (http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/01/about-photo-december-29-2007-message.html), would try to arrange.
http ://kbotkin .com/2014/01/16/alone-yet-not-alone-in-a-sea-of-dominionism/

This same web of connections that led to the film’s creation also contributed to its nomination in the Best Original Song category, if the judgment of the board of directors of the Academy is to be believed. George Escobar told WorldNetDaily (http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/critics-ballistic-over-christian-films-oscar-nod/#l7J0mqUxs6hKeRZb.99) that Ken Wales, an executive producer on Alone Yet Not Alone, as well as producer of past films including Amazing Grace and The Revenge of the Pink Panther, brought Bruce Broughton on board.
http://www. thedailybeast. com/articles/2014/01/31/alone-yet-not-alone-inside-the-conservative-christian-movie-the-oscars-ousted.html

According to well-placed sources, Broughton hired veteran film music publicist Ray Costa to try and get attention for the song and press releases were written but it gained no real editorial traction during the campaign. So, as a former Governor and head of the music branch he is obviously well-connected and well-liked within the organization and I am told he started making phone calls to colleagues urging them to consider the song. Call it the most grass roots of campaigns. This is sometimes how the inner workings of these groups operate. This one is one of the most exclusive clubs in the world and you can have all the consultants and publicity in the world, but what it really takes is you gotta have friends. (Source (http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/oscars-how-academys-most-obscure-nominee-maybe-ever-managed-to-beat-out-taylor-swift-coldplay-and-celine-dion/))

Since investigating these groups, I have seen very dangerous high-controlling people. Internet searches on key names within the Homeschool Movement (most of whom have Reconstructionist ties) will lead you to accounts of leaders stealing intellectual property from others, men suing other men, church excommunications, shunning, church splits, etc. This is not a nice and peaceful crowd. And I dare say that this may not be the brand of “Christianity” to which many of us cling.
It is true that there are very few wholesome movies coming out of Hollywood and Christians are yearning for positive entertainment for their families. Many will get on the bandwagon without realizing the agenda behind it simply because it is a “Christian movie.” But in supporting movies made by these folks, we are encouraging their Reconstructionist/Dominionist agenda.
http ://spiritualsoundingboard. com/2014/01/20/disturbing-reconstructionist-connections-with-oscar-nominee-film-alone-yet-not-alone/

see also:
http://spiritualsoundingboard .com/2014/01/29/oscars-governor-board-strikes-faith-based-alone-yet-not-alone-oscar-nomination/

http://www. joniandfriends. org/blog/oscar-nomination-rescinded/

http://variety .com/2014/film/news/oscar-rescinds-alone-song-nomination-1201076879/

[SilverMoon]

I haven't watched any of the Christian movement movies because just the trailers are so hokey I know I'd roll my eyes through out the movie AND the people I know IRL who *love* these movies are WOS, pre-mil judgemental folk whose agendas are obvious. :shiver
While not claiming a belief in dominionism, they wouldn't deny it.

I'm not shocked to learn they're associated with these movie makers. Afterall, look at the go-to star, Kirk Cameron. He's their poster-boy.

[Rabbit]

Those movies make me feel physically ill when I watch them. And as I haven't sold my soul to Satan to find the word or presence of God nauseating, I have to think it's a feeling I should listen to.

[Soliloquy]

All of those awards are about who you know and how much money you spend sponsoring. The whole thing is a joke, imo.

I don't watch those movies, either. :crazy2

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[graciousmomma]

I saw that another GCM had posted a recent article on fb about this situation. The young lady that was involved has filed a lawsuit against Doug Phillips and against Vision Forum Ministries. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-ingersoll/doug-phillips-biblical-patriarchy_b_5151442.html?utm_content=buffer8f94d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[charla]

I pray that she can find some peace. :bheart

[knitlove]

I am glad to hear that her family is standing with her, that has been one of my prayers sence I first heard about all this.

[HadassahSukkot]

I'm still following this closely. Spiritual Sounding Board has a lot of information on the timeline of events and what happened + info to the articles with the most info (WND had some as did World? iirc.)

[Soliloquy]

I am glad to hear that her family is standing with her, that has been one of my prayers sence I first heard about all this.

Yes.

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[Zooey]

I'm still following this closely. Spiritual Sounding Board has a lot of information on the timeline of events and what happened + info to the articles with the most info (WND had some as did World? iirc.)
And Wartburg Watch.

[rjy9343]

I am glad she has the courage to come forward. Going up against the man who is one of the most if the most powerful men in your religious organization and childhood cannot be an easy thing.

[Zooey]

I am glad she has the courage to come forward. Going up against the man who is one of the most if the most powerful men in your religious organization and childhood cannot be an easy thing.
She is being:heart very brave. I also want to express my appreciation that her husband is being so supportive. I pray they are both well & happy together.:pray4:pray4

[BarefootBetsy]

The excerpts I've read from the court documents are disgusting and horrific :cry Absolutely sickening :sick :mad

I hope she wins easily. I pray that this man will never be able to lay another finger on any more young women or victimize anyone else :pray4

[ShowersofBlessings]

This is horrible. I I initially thought, "Well at least he confessed on his own (unlike Gothard)." But now, I am seeing he only "confessed" after it started becoming public. And he never really had a true confession since he even lied/misled people in his statement. I was under the impression after reading his "confession" that what happened was between two consenting adults. However, he did more than just have an inappropriate relationship with her, he violated her against her will. There is another word for that.