"I do not allow..."

[BlessedBlue]

I have heard this phrase IRL and on-line with regards to inappropriate, immature, or acting out behavior. I am confused as to how, exactly, that works. :scratch

Now I do understand, the idealistic not-yet-a-parent idealism of "my kid is gonna be perfect because I'm going to be a perfect parent." But when it comes to actual real life situations, I am unclear about how I can exert control over another person to the point of being in charge of how they express their emotions/maturing process.

So, could someone please explain this to me? Please understand that I come from the viewpoint that it isn't my job to control my children AND that I can and should offer them respect as a fellow human being. I have encountered enough people who are equally stymied by my perspective, that having help bridge the gap would be immensely helpful.

[Psyche]

I say that to mean I do not tolerate and will correct x behavior.

[milkmommy]

I say that to mean I do not tolerate and will correct x behavior.

this is does not mean my kids never... :shifty

[Close2MyHeart]

:think I say that often.

I do not allow people to smoke in my house. It's simply not allowed. I'd ask them to leave if they wanted to smoke. In the same way, I do not allow my children to disrespect each other, themselves or me. If they choose to behave in a way that goes against our family values, they are given the choice to either stop or go somewhere alone (outside, upstairs, etc. the choice is theirs...) until they are ready to behave in a way that is kind and respectful.

Does that make sense? :think

[BlessedBlue]

:think

This may be semantics, but it seems that "addressing misbehavior" is being used interchageably with "not tolerating/allowing."

The first phrasing is a statement of what I can do, and the other is a statement of controlling someone else. The contexts that I have encountered the second phrasing are definitely accompanied with an attitude that even though I am in the midst of addressing the misbehavior my parenting is somewhat lacking because I've allowed the behavior in the first place.

[TraceMama]

:think

This may be semantics, but it seems that "addressing misbehavior" is being used interchageably with "not tolerating/allowing."

The first phrasing is a statement of what I can do, and the other is a statement of controlling someone else. The contexts that I have encountered the second phrasing are definitely accompanied with an attitude that even though I am in the midst of addressing the misbehavior my parenting is somewhat lacking because I've allowed the behavior in the first place.

In the contexts where I've seen "not tolerating/allowing", there have been big feelings on the part of the parent for being "disrespected" in such a manner -- i.e. "My child knows I don't tolerate this and yet they're *doing* it. I can't believe they're disrespecting me like this". I think those feelings would lend themselves very easily to direct or indirect shaming of the child :think

[allisonintx]

I do not allow name calling. Does that mean that no name calling happens in my home?

Umm, I have four children. ;) Name-calling happens. I address it every.single.time that I hear it.

[Findabhair]

I don't usually use that phrase very often but it does come up occasionally. Most of the time I turn it around though. I say "I expect. . ." instead. Like, for example: I expect you to speak in a quiet voice when we're in the library rather than I do not allow you to use a loud voice while we're in the library. It's generally used in advance of an incident rather than afterwards. Sometimes I do take DD out of a situation and talk about expectations though if she's misbehaving.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

In my home growing up, tantrums were "not allowed." My dad says this means that the first time I started to fuss and kick my legs about something, he swatted me. I was a very compliant child, so I assume it did t take much to make me keep it inside.

Depending in who says it, I think it often means that the very first time the child tried the behavior, the Punishment should have been strong enough that it would not occur again.

There are things I don't allow, as in, I always correct them, but I stay away from the phrase bc it means different things to different people depending on their parenting paradigm.

[HadassahSukkot]

. . . Depending in who says it, I think it often means that the very first time the child tried the behavior, the Punishment should have been strong enough that it would not occur again. . .
That is my experience also. :cup

[CoffeeMom]

When I say it, I mean I don't allow a certain behavior to go unchecked. It's always addressed (sassing being an example). With other people I know, though, it typically means that immediate & severe punishment will follow (usually spanking).


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[TraceMama]

I think this might boil down to semantics, but it reminds me of something Becky Bailey said in her book.

If a child hits and the parent responds with "We don't hit in this house", the parent has actually been dishonest and lied, because the child *did* actually hit.

It's possible that "I don't allow" follows a similar process. I can't read my children's minds, so I cannot stop them from hitting, for instance. If, after they hit, I say, "I don't allow hitting in this house", haven't I just proven that at some level I *do* allow it because it just happened and its occurrence was beyond *my* control?

Now, I can say I don't tolerate it and remind them of proper behavior, but that's different from using "allow" in my mind :think

[bentlaj11]

I think this might boil down to semantics, but it reminds me of something Becky Bailey said in her book.

If a child hits and the parent responds with "We don't hit in this house", the parent has actually been dishonest and lied, because the child *did* actually hit.

It's possible that "I don't allow" follows a similar process. I can't read my children's minds, so I cannot stop them from hitting, for instance. If, after they hit, I say, "I don't allow hitting in this house", haven't I just proven that at some level I *do* allow it because it just happened and its occurrence was beyond *my* control?

Now, I can say I don't tolerate it and remind them of proper behavior, but that's different from using "allow" in my mind :think

Thanks! I was trying to remember why I wasn't supposed to say "We don't...", but I couldn't remember why it wasn't a great thing to say, and I've been saying it some :( Now, that I hear why it's not good to say, hopefully it will stick!

I often say "I won't let you... (hit me/brother, mainly). And, then I do what it takes to keep him from hitting (people).

Interesting thread!

[Johns_Gal]

Semantics, mostly. Sometimes it means stuff that wouldn't be shocking to find in a Pearl book, or is nastily shaming. I think that's where most of the big feelings from others comes from.

The term drives me nuts on occasion. :shifty I cannot disallow slapping the cat. I can be proactive, and responsive and firm if/when it does happen, but I cannot actually disallow the behavior. The child is going to slap the cat/sass me outrageously/ have a meltdown in aisle three. Nothing I can really do to completely prevent that if the stars have thus aligned, you know?

ETA: I still remember DH saying we just wouldn't allow DS to have tantrums. :shifty I didn't even say much, I just let it slide. :lol

[Mother of Sons]

Not allowing something doesn't mean it never happens. If you dot allow smoking in your house and your bil lights up in your kitchen and you ask him to leave, did you allow him to smoke in your home?

There are lots of things I don't allow. I don't allow my children to run through walmart. I don't allow them to play in the street. I don't allow them to eat food In the store that we haven't paid for. I don't allow them to play in the racks or climb shelves. I don't allow them to hold me hostage with crying screaming or whining. I don't allow them to do all kinds of things. :shrug

To me not allowing just means that there are certain behaviors that are out of bounds and will be dealt with immediately. If you try to climb the shelves in a store, I will physically stop you and you want have the freedom to walk the rest of that shopping trip. That's what I mean when I say I don't allow.

[BlessedBlue]

IMO, if my BIL lights up a cigarette in my kitchen, yes, he is smoking in my house because the cigarette is lit and smoking. Generally people who visit know ahead of time that we maintain a smoke-free environment, and if they are so disrespectful as to trample that boundary they will find themselves disinvited, tossed out on their ear and not welcome to return.

However a swift, firm, and immediate consequence works only with people who are mature enough to recognize and respect the boundary. IOW, adults. Children are wired to be boundary testers, and swift, firm, and immediate consequences are not always effective deterrants. I may be wrong, and this may be because of my own experiences, but generally speaking, "not allowing" behavior usually means 1 and done. You made the error, swift consequences follow, now the expectation is that it never happens again. Which seems to me to be an unreasonable expectation of children living in my home. I can't kick them out for multiple infractions of the same standard, and as a boundary tester, they will cross the same line in so many different ways. So by saying, "I don't allow xyz," as an absolute, it is negated and I am made a liar for not making my words have meaning whenever the "disallowed" behavior occurs.

:scratch :think

As I'm turning over this issue in my head, I'm hearing voices of other moms echoing in my head. The moms at the playground witnessing a kid having an embarassing public meltdown, "I would never allow my child to get away with that behavior." The moms at church, "We don't allow kids to disrespect our authority. Join in the activity or sit by the wall." The moms at the grocery store observing a sensory meltdown, "I would never allow my child to do x." This is what I hear when I hear, "I do not allow..." Harsh words, hard hearts, and ignorance of maturity levels and real underlying issues. This is what I need to bridge.

[JoEllen]

I say that to mean I do not tolerate and will correct x behavior.

"Tolerate" is a much better word than "allow". :yes

[WingsOfTheMorning]

BB, I think sometimes people say "I would never allow my child to X" might have a child who has never tried it. ;) I could say I don't allow hitting, but it's kind of a moot point right now bc DD1 doesn't really get physical. :shrug3

[illinoismommy]

I do not enable that behavior. I do not encourage it. I do not reinforce that behavior.

At the base of 'allow' it indicates more control than I really have. I might say I do not allow that, it's against the rules, there will be consequences.

But sometimes when people say allow its as if they think they do have control. That can go no where good but escalating punishment and possibly abuse.

[Mother of Sons]

IMO, if my BIL lights up a cigarette in my kitchen, yes, he is smoking in my house because the cigarette is lit and smoking.

But did you allow it? following your reasoning If someone does anything at all it means you allowed it. The fact that some people will cross the line does not imply my consent or approval of their behavior.

I can't speak to anyone else but for me It doesn't mean that they won't ever do things that I don't approve of, it just means that I have standards and boundaries that I WILL help my child meet, no exceptions.

[Aerynne]

I do not allow people to ride in my car who are not properly buckled and/or in car seats (depending on age, weight, etc). That one is an absolute.

But I will say "I do not allow" for anything that I would say "_____ is not allowed". It definitely happens, sometimes it gets initiated and I intervene. Sometimes I don't know about it or I don't get a chance to intervene until it's too late. In that case we'll talk about it. But it's not something I just sit there and let happen if I know about it.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

I wanted to clarify that when if I heard any of you wonderful GCM moms say "I don't allow" I wouldn't think anything negative. :hug We operate from the same paradigm, and I would know that you simply mean that behavior is always corrected. :yes

But anyone who I know operates from a punitive paradigm, I usually suspect they mean something different, like what BB is describing.

[BlessedBlue]

.

But did you allow it? following your reasoning If someone does anything at all it means you allowed it. The fact that some people will cross the line does not imply my consent or approval of their behavior.

I can't speak to anyone else but for me It doesn't mean that they won't ever do things that I don't approve of, it just means that I have standards and boundaries that I WILL help my child meet, no exceptions.
My point was that it is out of my power to disallow the behavior. I am allergic to cigarette smoke, so the fact that my hypothetical BIL lit up a smoke *in* my house means I will be sick. I don't have that kind of power over someone's behavior. Working with teenagers has taught me that. ;)

I do not allow people to ride in my car who are not properly buckled and/or in car seats (depending on age, weight, etc). That one is an absolute.
It is an absolute, but your power is not over the people in your car, it is over what you choose to do. I have the same rule. It means that I don't put my vehicle in gear and we all stare at each other and/or help is offered.

[Zooey]

I do not allow people to ride in my car who are not properly buckled and/or in car seats (depending on age, weight, etc). That one is an absolute.

But I will say "I do not allow" for anything that I would say "_____ is not allowed". It definitely happens, sometimes it gets initiated and I intervene. Sometimes I don't know about it or I don't get a chance to intervene until it's too late. In that case we'll talk about it. But it's not something I just sit there and let happen if I know about it.
This.

[OnAMission]

I've been thinking and thinking about this. In general, I think I fall into the "it's not an effective way to communicate my boundaries camp" because it does sort of assume some sort of power over what other people do.

My mil was sharing a story though about some children in a restraunt who were playing catch, running around, including in and out of the restraunt, and banging on the windows by the family's table. I did make the statement that I would not allow our children to do that, but I think what I meant by that is that I would have set them up for success (not bring the ball in the first place and establish expectations for remaining seated in additon to activities/books to encourage remaining seated) and we would have left almost immediately if they showed they couldn't do it. These kids were aged 5-10 by the way.

I enjoy these discussions about words and language. I've realized the subtle, but very real, power of the language we use and the thought patterns in our minds.

[BarefootBetsy]

Strictly speaking of semantics, it's just not an accurate or meaningful way to express what (I believe) people mean when they say it :think

Using a longer phrase like:

"I will stop my child from doing X by physically removing them from the situation/distraction/redirection."

"We will leave the public place immediately if my child does X."

They're longer but more accurate, IMO, since it's really about what *we* can do, rather than about allowing or disallowing someone else to do something, which isn't something that we can fully control in the first place.