Shaming

[Chaos Coordinator]

I know there have been past threads regarding this but I need to re-hash it out.

I'm a shamer. I have GOT to stop. It's emotionally abusive.

I do it to myself oh probably every waking minute of every day. It nearly wrecked my marriage.

And if I don't stop, it's going to destroy my children as well.

The kicker is that I did not even know what that meant until oh a year ago? Ive spent the days since then praying for clarity and discernment. And now I'm here tonight asking for support.

I never even realize what I've done until after the fact. Sometimes waaay after the fact.

Like tonight for example. We went to chickfila for dinner and i saw my son through the giant glass window lean down and bite the hand of the kid he was playing with. It was not a malicious bite, he did it in a rough play way (obviously too rough) and the child was not hurt or even upset at all.

But *I* was upset. I kind of panicked. I leapt out of my seat, ran in there, interrupted the continued play and had him recite back to me "teeth are for food, not friends"

Obviously some kids would not be phased by this sort of intervention, but my little guy is pretty sensitive :sigh which means I screwed up. Again. I should have pulled him to the side and discussed it with him privately, I think.

I am still coming back from a bout of mastitis and truthfully I was in a bit of a fog. So I could extend myself a little grace. But there's the other half of the problem. I tend to be pretty ruthless. Especially with myself.

This is all anxiety-driven. And I believe that my anxiety is tied into being shamed and emotionally manipulated as a child. I do not want to continue this cycle in my own children. I can see it in my family tree like some sort of fungus or rot infecting a certain line of branches. It has got to stop. There is no use for it.

I have to be okay with the current state of things. I have to stop pushing myself to my own limits and letting my anxiety, fear, shame, and ruthlessness drive me there, and I have to stop projecting this garbage onto my babies

Please tell me everything you know about shaming. Your experiences, struggles, what helped and what hindered. For the sake of my children, I need an intervention.

[Aerynne]

That doesn't sound like shaming to me. :shrug Shaming would be trying to make him feel bad about it by saying "you don't care about your friend" or something like that- making judgments.

Sometimes as parents we go a little far in reprimanding a child for something they didn't need reprimanding for, and sometimes, on the other end of the spectrum, we miss a teaching opportunity we could have used to help them be better. We're always trying to find that happy medium, and sometimes we miss it. :hug2 That's not shaming. Next time just pull him aside and talk to him about it.

[Chaos Coordinator]

See, it's like I need an outline or something.

Recalling the situation, there were at least four other children in with him and they all stopped and watched. I don't want him to hearken back on the moment and feel bad about it in any way.

[Lady Grey]

This topic has been on my mind a lot also. I thought that anger was the key issue from my childhood that was lingering but I now realize that shaming has had a much bigger impact on my emotional health. It's ugly.

That said, I agree that what you did doesn't sound like shaming.

[Chaos Coordinator]

I'm so relieved really I could cry.

I've really worked hard to move away from it but it still lingers. Old habits die hard.

[saturnfire16]

I agree that the words you said were not shaming. However, depending on your tone and manner which were unclear from what you described, it could still be shaming. :hug2 Like you said, some kids would take that hard and some would not. My oldest would be ok with that, while my middle one would probably cry too.

I recently wrote a blog post (http://peaceondarknights.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-first-post-as-guest-blogger-shame.html) on it, which might help give you some direction about what shaming is. :hug2

Writing that post made me particularly aware of it lately, and I am realizing that while I am very careful about my words, sometimes my tone and manner are shaming.

A simple rule of thumb is that if you are intending (even without realizing it) to make the other person feel bad, you are probably shaming them.

That doesn't mean that every time they feel bad, you are at fault for shaming. :no Maybe they feel guilt (I talk about the difference in that post) or simply sad or overwhelmed.

[staceylayne]

I so agree with the other posters in saying I don't consider your reaction shaming. :hugheart


Sometimes as parents we go a little far in reprimanding a child for something they didn't need reprimanding for, and sometimes, on the other end of the spectrum, we miss a teaching opportunity we could have used to help them be better. We're always trying to find that happy medium, and sometimes we miss it. :hug2 That's not shaming. Next time just pull him aside and talk to him about it.

This is good and I need to remember it for myself. Because I'm messing up all the time and I can get so discouraged.




Recalling the situation, there were at least four other children in with him and they all stopped and watched. I don't want him to hearken back on the moment and feel bad about it in any way.

I'd say of you still feel this way in the morning, it could be a good opportunity to model humility by owning your (possible) overreaction. You can remind him of the scenario and say "Mommy made a mistake. It would have been better for me to talk to you privately instead of in front of the other children. I am so sorry if I made you feel embarrased or ashamed." Or something like that. :shrug

I'm very intersted in continuing the discussion of shaming...even as it relates to situations outside this example. I'm not sure my parents ever intentionally shamed me, but I was a sensitive, perfectionist of people pleaser, and I often *felt* ashamed when I made mistakes or disappointed adults.

My first born is also sensitive and a perfectionist. But his response to feeling shame or embarrassment is to lash out in anger (where I would shrink back in embarrassment or go into people-pleasing overdrive). It was actually his sensitivity to my "firm" discipline voice that first got me asking the questions that led me GBD and GCM.

It has been AMAZING the difference it makes when I verbalize to him my assumed positive intent (oh, I know you didn't mean to hurt the baby! We're you trying to play with her?) and when I don't approach him as an adversary. But I still feel like I'm missing it with him a lot. And I fear it builds barriers of trust...where he doesn't tell me everything freely because he doesn't want to feel that he's wrong or silly or disappointing.

Now I often worry that I'm shaming him when I give "the look" (which to me means "pay attention, I'm serious" but to him could read "I'm disappointed" or "you're displeasing") or even when I use a louder, more firm tone of voice to get his attention. It seems very benign, but I think my motivations may at times still be colored by the old punitive paradigm and he senses that. But then I wonder, "am I always going to have to handle him with kid gloves? Shouldn't he be able to deal with something less than the most peppy or gentle of corrections/instructions?"

So the shaming thing gets really mixed up in my head. Especially with this sensitive first born who hates to be wrong. :sigh

[Chaos Coordinator]

It was said in a calm tone, but yes it's not so much that he's "sensitive" as it's that he's highly perceptive and picks up on the slightest nuances.

I swear it's like sprinting through quicksand

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------

Iow I aim to tread lightly and give him lots of space to be what he needs to be and do what he needs to do, but he is so perceptive that the tiniest little thing becomes a snag that turns into an enormous setback.

Yeah :giggle that's what sprinting through quicksand means. I reLized after I posted that might be a kind of far fetched analogy for anyone who isn't used to my copious use of analogy

[a good book under a tree]

:listen I'm here to take notes, becoming more aware of my own shame & how it affects my parenting.

[Domina]

Oh, honey. I think you did just fine! :hug2 Lately I've gotten a front-row seat to some professional shamers, and their responses would look like this:

"No! Biting is MEAN! Tell him you're sorry for being mean!"

"Bad boy! You made him cry. Don't you feel terrible?"

"How many times do I have to tell you not to bite? Are you stupid?"

"I'm sick of you always biting your friends!"

What you did was gentle correction. Maybe in the future you'll choose to do it privately, maybe you won't. But in no way were you mean or shaming. :heart

[Starfox]

I found this article (http://www.naturalchild.org/robin_grille/good_children.html)to be helpful on what shaming is.

[dulce de leche]

I am right with you on this. It is easy for me to avoid spanking--that is such a clear line. Shaming is so much more subtle, and still so damaging. And even though I *know* that making a child feel worse will not help, it is such an ingrained thing that I really struggle with it at times.

[racheepoo]

Joy, I think you are incredibly hard on yourself and second guess many of your parenting decisions. From what I've seen you post, you generally make really wise choices with how to respond to your kids, and I think somewhere inside of you is the fear that you will screw up and screw them up for life. But you're not going to do that. You're just not. You need to breathe, and trust that yes you'll make mistakes, but that your love and care for them is going to trump what you do wrong. And you need to extend a huge amount of grace to yourself, my friend. :hug

[Waterlogged]

I totally agree with Rachel on this one.

H couldn't have a better mama. :heart

[Mommainrwanda]

I've seen you in action and I think you are a really positive momma. :yes Even dh was impressed with how calmly you handle H. He may have even said, "That woman cannot possibly be from around here. She's too relaxed." :giggle

I am already fighting the urge to compare the Urchin to other kids when she is frustrating me. It is surprising how easy I find it to say, "Look, Caris is just sitting there quietly. Why can't you sit still?"

When an incident happens like that I try to verbalize my thoughts, "Oh, that's right. You and Caris are totally different little girls. You like to run around more than she does. That's right. Why don't you come sit in my lap?" I know that the Urchin doesn't understand all of that right now, but it helps me to redirect my thoughts from being so negative. Someday I hope to be able to do that redirection before any words come out of my mouth.

Then I move on. I don't dwell on my mistake. If I have to - I keep redirecting myself away from my own shame over doing something I didn't want to do. "It doesn't matter if lots of other GCMs don't talk that way to their kids. Even if they heard you say that - they would not stop being friends with you. You are learning. It is a process. Go love on your baby. Read a book or something." :heart

[Annainprogress]

Bbl DD has me reading to her and I've forgotten what I was thinking of saying :heart

[dakotablue]

I am already fighting the urge to compare the Urchin to other kids when she is frustrating me. It is surprising how easy I find it to say, "Look, Caris is just sitting there quietly. Why can't you sit still?"

When an incident happens like that I try to verbalize my thoughts, "Oh, that's right. You and Caris are totally different little girls. You like to run around more than she does. That's right. Why don't you come sit in my lap?" I know that the Urchin doesn't understand all of that right now, but it helps me to redirect my thoughts from being so negative. Someday I hope to be able to do that redirection before any words come out of my mouth.

Then I move on. I don't dwell on my mistake. If I have to - I keep redirecting myself away from my own shame over doing something I didn't want to do. "It doesn't matter if lots of other GCMs don't talk that way to their kids. Even if they heard you say that - they would not stop being friends with you. You are learning. It is a process. Go love on your baby. Read a book or something." :heart



This is excellent advice. I have done this a few times when I've lost it.

The one I still feel guilty about which was said to me a LOT as a child, "What's wrong with you" Which implies some core flaw in who you are. The one time I uttered this (not to my own children rather a very spirited child I was watching who was doing everything to drive me batty:shifty) I quickly added, "Oh, I know it must be because of X your just really excited! What would you like to do to work out some of that excitement." She 'bought' it but I still feel guilty (this was like 3 years ago) That I lapsed like that. I'm so grateful I continued the thought stream because it would have broken her little heart as I was one of the only people in her life that enjoyed spending time with her even when she was hyper.

Even Mama's have flaws.