Ames & Ilg

[Sonata]

Okay, so at the suggestion of people on this board I have been reading Ames & Ilg "Your 3 Year Old." First of all, I nearly laughed out loud and ran it right back to the library when it started by going on and on about how the Three Year Old "says yes instead of no... is a highly "we" age.... wants to please... enjoys his mother.... is rather happy...."

!!!!!!!!! Not in our world! !!!!!!!!!

Then I got to Three and a Half, which is "refusing, turbulent, total rebellion, doing things he knows full well are not permitted, self-willed...." Okay, that looks more familiar!

BUT..... can we get to Three and a Half a full 7 months early? Emerson suddenly started on a whole list of 3yo behaviors 6 weeks before his birthday, which is 7.5 months before being 3.5. As I read more, almost everything about 3.5 yo's fits his behavior: from starting to stutter to being more engaged with other children than with adults in a school setting. I suppose he might have been acting like they describe a 3yo earlier this fall, but I hadn't read the book. :scratch For that matter, he started to successfully (and constantly!) use more abstract questioning skills (like "how" and "why") just before he turned 2.5; I forget whether they attribute that to 3 or 3.5 in the book.

FWIW, he is a very advanced boy in all the technical skills: a very fluent talker, able to put small beads on a thread, very physically coordinated, interested in working with other children, loves to rhyme, points out letters and knows how to read a few words, etc. (He's not really that into drawing, though! ;)) But my understanding was that these technical skills don't necessarily add up to a greater emotional maturity.

I am very confused by this whole chronology. I have a masters in early childhood education, and know a lot about child development, but everything that I have studied works by developmental level, not by a specific age. (e.g., looking at how a child moves from parallel to interactive play, or how they develop a concept of another person's understanding, or what a drawing stage means -- not "at this age they think this") So I am genuinely interested to understand A&I's philosophy better, and how I apply this to my child. They are very, very chronology based!

[Codi]

Have you read the two year old book to compare his behaviors to that one?

[Heather Micaela]

Don't have a masters, but got a 2yr child development degree.

I think the thing to remember is that the chronogly usually takes so much time between steps. so when that is started at birth, it can then be applied loosely to age. No kid gets alll the way to the things a typical teen does by age 4 or anything. There is a typical time to the development.


Now of course there is a spectrum to this, so a kid can be early or late on these, but it still give you a framework. :yes

[Sonata]

No, I have just started with this one because he is turning 3, so I don't know if he's been "off" his chronology for a long time or not. Right now, this is not feeling very useful to me.

[Heather Micaela]

No, I have just started with this one because he is turning 3, so I don't know if he's been "off" his chronology for a long time or not. Right now, this is not feeling very useful to me.
I always read the books on either side of each age as well as the age in question :)

[Waterlogged]

I have a masters in Early Childhood Special Education, and have found the Ames and Ilg books to be...not as helpful as my background and coursework. I've typically just used my understanding of developmental stages to figure out what the next step is for K, because she hasn't followed the books either.

Understanding Vygotsky has been much more influential on my parenting.

And knowing that whatever we're dealing with right now, likely will be fixed by maturity, as long as I continue to parent positively and proactively. She won't always be afraid of pooping in the potty, and while it's annoying that she will only poop in a pull-up/diaper right now, it's not always going to be like this. :shrug

[Heather Micaela]

I think it helps for those with no background in child development because they see this stuff is normal. I do think knowing how long a stage will typically last is kind of helpful. But like anything that bases on the average, it is not going to be correct accross the board.

[Aubieirish]

I checked the books out at the library for our children's ages, and I didn't find them eather shattering :duck. I don't have a background in childhood ed, but most of what I read seemed to be common sense or didn't fit at all. I think there can be practical solutions and schools of thought in these books, but I don't think they are necessarily a one size fits all sort of manual.

I know some people really identify with the books, but I also realize that some of us don't and that's ok too :)

I didn't consider the age of three to be rather happy at all. I always say that three is far and away more trying than two.

[Kiara.I]

I remember reading (in the 3 book) that they'll say that a 3.5 will stutter, if they weren't verbally advanced, and therefore stuttering at 2.5. So it's possible that he's exhibiting some of the typical "2.5" behaviours instead of the 3.5. :shrug3

Oh well, if that's the case then in about a year, you'll know exactly what's going on. :giggle

[Sonata]

I've typically just used my understanding of developmental stages to figure out what the next step is for K, because she hasn't followed the books either.

Understanding Vygotsky has been much more influential on my parenting.



What Vygotsky did you read? I don't think I'm familiar with him. :scratch

[Waterlogged]

He's the Zone of Proximal development guy. :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development

[Sonata]

I think the thing to remember is that the chronogly usually takes so much time between steps. so when that is started at birth, it can then be applied loosely to age. No kid gets alll the way to the things a typical teen does by age 4 or anything. There is a typical time to the development.


See, that makes sense to me, and the way that I learned child development. What is throwing me off is how A&I constantly refer to exact ages.

Then near the end of the book, they did mention how children might hit the stages differently -- by saying that girls often hit Three and a Half earlier than boys -- but don't give much context for that. Like, am I making stuff up or can my son really hit an age-based stage 7.5 months early?

(Especially as a boy. How come boys are never expected to "perform" as well as girls?)

I think it helps for those with no background in child development because they see this stuff is normal. I do think knowing how long a stage will typically last is kind of helpful. But like anything that bases on the average, it is not going to be correct accross the board.

I think you're right. A lot of the behavior described was familiar, either for E or for describing other children we know (just not always in the "correct place"). That could be very comforting if you didn't really know what to expect.

I admit to being very comforted by their constant assertion that it can be best for everyone to put the 3.5yo in a non-mother's care! Daily pre-school seems to be so good for DS right now, but it's hard not to feel guilty about it.


I didn't consider the age of three to be rather happy at all. I always say that three is far and away more trying than two.

That's what I've heard from a lot of other mothers, too.

[MomtoJGJ]

3 is awful... I've never read A&I books, but about 2 months or so before 3 hits it gets awful... and it stays that way. Ok, well, maybe that's an exaggeration. 5 wasn't so bad except for the whiny-ness. And 7.5-8.5 has been ok.

[Sonata]

Okay, that's right when it hit for us.... 2 months till 3. So now you're telling me I'm just in for disaster for the next 4.5 years??!! :jawdrop :giggle

---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

Actually, my husband is really worried about 15. Last night, as we were laying there trying to go to sleep with DS wiggling and talking a blue streak in between us, he wondered "if he's pushing the limits so badly at this age, what's he going to be like when he's 15 and has so many more limits to push?" And likely he'll be bigger than both of us by then!

:doh

[MomtoJGJ]

I've heard many people say that boys are harder as toddlers but easier as teenagers. Makes me really concerned about my girls as teens! :shifty

He's pushing boundaries so that he'll know EXACTLY where they are. And really, he probably will have fewer limits that have more significant consequences at 15 than now. Right now there are SO MANY THINGS that are off limits and not appropriate that he's just learning. Right now he doesn't get it every single time that throwing a glass across the room means the glass might break and he certainly wouldn't have the consequence of cleaning it up... at 15, although he might throw the glass, and it might break, he would have to clean it up and would definitely realize that it could hurt someone.

[SweetCaroline]

just posting really quickly..

dont they base their conclusions on observation?..meaning i was thinking that they observed many children in that particular age group and wrote on the behaviors they saw most pervasive in that particular age group.

and thats why it appears chronological- because that the way their research is set up

does that make sense? or am i all wrong

ftr: i DO have all their books..but just skimmed them

[Sonata]

Yes, that's the way it is written/organized.

[superfastreader]

We found the 3 Year Old book to be very helpful, though we saw 3.5yo behavior for most of age 3, and it's finally passing at 4y2mo. It really helped us to normalize what was going on.

The 4yo book was really unhelpful, though. It had a huge section on body types as they relate to personality that felt like astrology, if you know what I mean--

[Heather Micaela]

I do not think the body type is law, but neither do I think it is astrology. ;no

Honestly that has to do with physical activity and eating and I have seen a have an issue with people finding something nefarious under every rock they disagree with.

[Barefoot Bookworm]

A little before and for a few months after 3 is when it all goes downhill here. 3.5 is when it starts to get BETTER. Been this way with both of my older ones who have done 3 (or are doing 3... Sam is 3 and 4 months).

[DancingWithElves]

one or more of the books i have has a very important and helpful disclaimer in it :) they basically say that their work is meant to address "the average child" and they are quite aware that no such child exists. that warn you that you should not let anyone, authors included, tell you what your kid ought or ought not be, just b/c they are x yrs/months old :yes the books are meant to help people understand where the middle of the bell curve falls. they are particularly helpful for those of us who felt that all two year olds are old enough to know better. or that all four year olds are old enough to put things away. or all three year olds can be made to treat infant siblings gently. these books (i've only read the early ages, like, up to 6) are very helpful with setting developmentally-appropriate expectations, and give good common-sense ideas on how to deal with common problems. the authors state in no uncertain terms that kids are all individuals and need to be treated as such :)