When Antonio Stradivari dies a little

[Rea T]

4th grader. Learning to play violin. Cats screeching in a bag. WHAT do you say when they ask "How did that sound? Did that sound good?"

I don't want to say "Oh honey, that sounded great!" Because sooner or later he's going to know that isn't true, and at the very least it won't help him to learn anything if he thinks it is already good.

So sometimes I say "Well, I really liked the beginning, that sounded pretty. I can tell that you are working really hard on this." And so he'll play it again and then "How was that? Did that sound better?"

SHOULD I be giving him feedback after every song if he asks for it? I'm not a violinist so I can't tell him anything about HOW to fix it.

How do you handle those painful learning periods with encouragement and truth?

[racheepoo]

And this is exactly the reason I encourage pill to take guitar. :shifty Violin and saxophone are, I think, unparalleled for their ability to make me visibly wince. :shifty

Re: encouragement, he is really going to have to motivate himself for it. In fact, I'd probably go out of the room when he practices. If you need a lot of feedback in general, it's really hard not to become obsessed with how other people react when you do something and music is no exception. I much preferred to practice alone and get feedback from my teacher (the expert).

[JessicaTX]

My son's trombone is like that. I just praise him when I hear a real note. And really praise him when he hits a note and sustains it for a second :P

[Rea T]

I was in the other room folding laundry; he hunts me down to ask me.

Good idea though, maybe if I told him "I enjoy listening to you practice, but I will let your teacher give you feedback because I don't know anything about violin." He is definitely a child that needs a lot of feedback on everything, it is almost paralyzing to him to have to move forward on something without feedback or coaching. I am assuming that is a function of Aspergers.

[RiverRock]

:shifty I compliment when the music sounds nice, but sometimes I close the door while my dk practice. It sounds like your son is eager to learn, so I would probably encourage and say things like what you are saying.

It's a different story when you have a frustrated 3rd grader who sounds like the guy from the Muppets who bangs the keys and yells, "I'll never get it right." My dd doesn't say those exact words, but that is what I hear and have to suppress laughter, possibly offer some kind words in an attempt to diffuse the situation, and then gently close the door.

I think you are extremely blessed to have a 4th grader who likes to learn the violin. :)

[lucie]

I'm curious about this as well.

Just an idea that occured to me--can you turn the question back at him and ask him what he thinks and then go from there? Something like "What do you think? Did it sound as you were trying to make it sound?" (phrased in less awkward way, possibly :giggle)

[katiekind]

Maybe there are other things you can comment on? A relaxed bowing arm, a proper stance, the rhythm, nice, even bowstrokes, etc. Hopefully a violin teacher here can weigh in on some aspects that you can give genuine positive reinforcement on.

[Lady TS]

Oh my, what have I done? My 4th grader is learning violin but they haven't started in with the bow yet (still plucking--am I lucky?)....


Although, my mom had to listen to me play clarinet...maybe this will be payback....squeaks for squeaks. :giggle

[MarynMunchkins]

Beginners are hard to listen to. I also clearly remember my mom complaining about my efforts, so I wouldn't go that route. ;)

As a string player, I think it's almost always safe to say "Try using more of the bow" or "Bend your elbow instead of using your whole arm" or "Bend your right thumb". You can also use "Keep your wrist straight." :giggle Focusing on tone rather than intonation is more helpful in the beginning, and is ultimately more difficult to master. So a nice long bow stroke with consistent sound is easy to recognize and should be praised. :)

[katiekind]

PS it is exciting to hear about the efforts of these young string students!!!!!! :rockon

[Rea T]

All very helpful! Especially what to watch for with bow strokes.

How can I encourage him when he says it hurts? I know that it takes awhile for fingers to toughen up to the strings. I talked to him a little bit about when I started running and how it hurt, but I knew if I wanted to get better I had to keep going and not just stop as soon as it started hurting and each time I'd get a little bit further before it started hurting.

[ArmsOfLove]

this is one of those situations made for descriptive praise :yes

It sounds like you're working hard
I can tell you were putting everything into that
I can hear you getting better on (if you noticed something specific)
That is hard work and you are doing so well at it
Wow, that was so LOUD :D
etc.

[Marrae]

:giggle ITU. I used the phrases that Crystal typed above. It's difficult to explain the very started and determined cat making for the nearest door or window when the instrument is picked up though. :giggle

[MarynMunchkins]

If it hurts, he should take a break. In the beginning, it's far better to do 2 15 minute practice sessions and build up his strength. :)

[Love is...]

We just converted the playroom into a music room. My honest answer is always something like,

"I love to hear you play music! Keep playing, let's see how much we can learn!"

[joystrength]

As a former string student whose parents ...

-- attended all my concerts (as work allowed)
-- worked into the evening and "missed" my practice times :giggle
-- told me I could go into the warmed garage to have plenty of "bowing" room
-- never DIScouraged me

....

... I suggest you find him a cassette recorder to "RECORD" himself and let HIM be the judge of the "HOW was that, MAMA"?? question! Seriously, hearing my own "screechings" and "scratchings" were one of the biggest motivators for applying what I'd learned in class.

(My parents almost always closed my door with a smile when I practiced, if they were there. And, I noticed, that the TV was a bit louder when I came out, too! :giggle:giggle:giggle)

[Calliope]

:haha I'm sorry. It's just that I don't know how there are any violin players left in the world, because I would think all parents would beg their children to quit within a month because beginner violinists (especially on smaller violins) always sound like dying cats.

(I started when I was 6.)

[MercyInDisguise]

"I enjoy listening to you practice, but I will let your teacher give you feedback because I don't know anything about violin." He is definitely a child that needs a lot of feedback on everything, it is almost paralyzing to him to have to move forward on something without feedback or coaching. I am assuming that is a function of Aspergers.

I was like this as a child also. I don't have Asperger's, but I always needed a lot of feedback. My mom made statements to me like this when I was learning violin (granted I was older when I started... 15-16) and it helped me, even though I knew she was dodging the truth. :shifty

[tempestjewel]

I play violin and viola :)

I love love LOVE Suzuki's books on teaching beginner students. His main book is called, "Nurtured by Love". He is incredibly AP friendly, and he believed every student had the potential to learn to be great, not matter if they were blind, disabled, etc. His book is full of ideas to motivate, and a lot of public libraries carry it.

He starts out by caring more about tone then perfect posture/form. Helping them aspire to playing beautifully first, then moving towards small/slow corrections in form. This cuts down on the cat screaming phase a bit. Also, he recommends starting out with very short practice sessions a few times a day, rather then one long one. This builds strength/stamina and helps cut down on frustration. :)

[GlobalMama]

My parents always said, "It's so great to hear you practice! We can tell how hard you're working." Eventually it turned into, "That was beautiful" and then it turned into, "Please play for us, we miss it." Encourage, encourage, encourage. Everyone starts out sounding horrid but I'll tell you right now that one of the fondest memories I have is playing my cello for my Mom as she laid on the couch bald from chemo. She even said to me, "And to think it all started sounding like a dying animal" We both had a really good laugh :) It really can turn out to be amazing with the right enouragement.

[Blue Savannah]

:heart I agree it's good to praise the practicing. Lots of grown musicians haven't mastered that skill. ;)

Another thing I think will be really good for him is for you to play excellent violin music in your home. Get the good sounds in his ear. :) My dd is not playing a stringed instrument, but it helps her SO much to hear recordings of pieces she's playing and hear pieces she someday will be playing.

[Rea T]

:heart I agree it's good to praise the practicing. Lots of grown musicians haven't mastered that skill. ;)

Another thing I think will be really good for him is for you to play excellent violin music in your home. Get the good sounds in his ear. :) My dd is not playing a stringed instrument, but it helps her SO much to hear recordings of pieces she's playing and hear pieces she someday will be playing.

I love that idea!

[jewelmcjem]

To the OP, when my girls were 4th-grade-age, they were ready to articulate an answer to "When you ask that, do you want me to explain what I'm hearing, or are you wanting encouragement? Because you're just learning, and it's not going to sound perfect every time. Sometimes I can help you do it better, but I don't want to hurt your feelings. If you just need encouragement, though, I love hearing you practice, and you're learning new things all the time, so that part is easy!" Maybe in a not-practicing moment, though.