Finding a Church accepting of AP?

[Hopetobe]

We need to find a Church home. The problem is a lot of Churches don't seem to be very encouraging, or even accepting of AP. And, it's particularly harder now that we have 10mo DS who is pretty high needs and VERY attached to me. Why don't we already have one? Well, probably because 1) The Church I grew up in seemed hypocritical sometimes, so I was kind of "starting from scratch" (thinking about what I believe, researching, etc)., and 2) I tend to be idealistic at times. Anyway, I just want to find a Church that we can feel comfortable in. Accepting AP, etc. is a big deal to me. Any ideas on how or types that are usually AP and family friendly(where it's normal for the whole family to be together in Church)? My DH doesn't really have a type preference, as he just goes if/when I go. Thank you!

[solatido]

Try a Reformed Presbyterian church- I have no idea what they are like AP-wise (each church is probably different), but it is normal to have kids in the service. A nursery is generally available but people are not expected to use it unless they want to. Of course you are expected to take a really loud baby/toddler out, but quieter noises and wiggles are tolerated.

Of course, the music is very different, but give it a try!

I think small churches in general are more family friendly, but that might just be my limited experience.

Oh, and welcome to GCM!!!!

[2sunshines]

When you say "accepting of AP" what exactly are you looking for? Do you just want a church where the pastor is not going to criticize your parenting? Or a church that preaches AP from the pulpit?

Honestly, I don't expect my church to affirm or criticize my parenting. :shrug3 To get parenting advice is not really the reason I go to church. So really, it doesn't matter to me what my pastor or our denomination's official stance on parenting is (tho quite honestly, I'm not sure a denom even should have an official stance on parenting -- I don't see it as their role).

I go to a WELS Lutheran Church. I love our stance on children. Children of all ages are included in the worship service. There is no nursery and we strongly believe that entire families should worship together.

[HuggaBuggaMommy]

I have attended many reformed Presbyterian churches for many years, and of the ones I've been in, none are all that AP friendly (and decidedly NOT GD-leaning). They do, however, encourage children to be in the service because most don't believe in separating families.

We now attend an ABCUSA (American Baptist) church where dh is on staff. It is really not AP at all. :shrug But you know what? I don't care. I do what's best for my family and bean dip the rest. (Like the pastor's wife commenting that the church preschool had "a lot of crying kids this year because most of the families are unchurched and don't know how to leave their mommies because they've never gone to the nursery." :rolleyes Didn't my dh get an earful about that one; glad he's sooo supportive of AP.)

In general, I've found the more so-called "liberal" churches will be more accepting of AP. But that's not the case all the time. I attended this very lovely Calvary Chapel for a while that was *very* AP and crunchy - because the several families who started the church were from Oregon and already leaned that way personally, so it was ingrained in the climate of the church.

You'll probably have to search around for one YOU feel comfortable in.

---------- Post added at 04:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------


Honestly, I don't expect my church to affirm or criticize my parenting. :shrug3 To get parenting advice is not really the reason I go to church. So really, it doesn't matter to me what my pastor or our denomination's official stance on parenting is (tho quite honestly, I'm not sure a denom even should have an official stance on parenting -- I don't see it as their role).


Absolutely this. Most churches I've attended don't agree with my parenting (though they see the results with my ds and are amazed ;) :giggle ). But only one or two of them have said something directly to me, either officially or unofficially. Those are the churches I did not continue to attend.

[peetred]

Hmmm, ya I am too wondering what you are looking for. We attend a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) that is I am sure similar to Reformed Presbyterian.. the one thing we love about our church is that it's small. We can have the kids with us or use nursery. Families are not totally segregated all the time, etc. But it's a pretty typical church.

The main thing about the church is the people, and they are pretty great. We feel as if they are our second family, and if they have a problem with something we are doing we can talk about it openly.

ETA: The most important thing is that they are sound in doctrine and teaching, and they do not ADD stuff to the scriptures, meaning families are free to make parenting choices without being told they are unbliblical (when the scriptures are not clear as mud.) So, that is what I would be looking for in a church.

[2sunshines]

ETA: The most important thing is that they are sound in doctrine

:yes

This is what concerns me slightly with questions like these. Because doctrine should be the absolute epitome when considering what church is the best fit for your family.

If I have to choose between a doctrinally sound church and a church that embraces AP, the doctrine wins without a question. I would never consider attending a pro-AP but doctrinally wrong church.

I would suggest you get an idea for which churches line up with your doctrine. Then just start trying them. And see which ones you feel are the best fit for your family. :heart I think that starting out with churches who believe in families worshipping together (as in, they don't separate children from parents during the service) is a great starting point. :yes

[itzj]

I wonder if you might have more success in a church that follows a liturgical year. I'm Catholic and have never heard a homily on how to parent children and the nursery is just there as a courtesy, you would have to know where it even is because it's not really advertised. So I'm wondering if a church with more structured readings is less likely to endorse a particular style because of the way that readings are laid out, I'm unfamiliar with the protestant ones that do, so if anyone wants to chime in if they've found this to be the case or not.

[gentlemommy]

Welcome to GCM! It can be hard to find a church that supports and nurtures parents and families, especially AP families. Many churches expect parents and families to support the church (instead of the other way around) and separate families in order to do so. That's not my cup of tea either. :no

I agree with looking first for a church that does not routinely separate children and parents. I have been to many Lutheran churches and children have always been welcome (and expected) in the service, so that may be a denom to look into. There is a big difference between some of the beliefs amongst Lutheran chuches though so maybe do some searching there before just trying the closest one. In the uber-conservative Lutheran churches, women aren't allowed to vote, sometimes cannot even attend the meetings, or if they can attend, they may not be allowed to speak. :sick In the most liberal Lutheran churches, you will find openly homosexual pastors, including female pastors. So some churches will be a much better fit based on your personal beliefs.


:yes

This is what concerns me slightly with questions like these. Because doctrine should be the absolute epitome when considering what church is the best fit for your family.



That is not true for everyone. For some, doctrine is the be all end all, and for some, it's not. :shrug3 It used to be for me, and now I care much more about the people, the relationships, the GRACE and compassion (or lack thereof) than I do about aligning perfectly with a church's official doctrine.

[2sunshines]

In the uber-conservative Lutheran churches, women aren't allowed to vote, sometimes cannot even attend the meetings, or if they can attend, they may not be allowed to speak. :sick

I go to a conservative Lutheran church. Women are not allowed to vote directly. My husband votes as the representative of our family.

It's not really as :sick :sick :sick as you may assume. ;)

Just remember that when you make comments on churches, we have a wide variety of believers here. :)

[gentlemommy]

I go to a conservative Lutheran church. Women are not allowed to vote directly. My husband votes as the representative of our family.

It's not really as :sick :sick :sick as you may assume. ;)

Well, I grew up in that synod and went to the synod's schools and even that synod's college, and it was a very, very :sick experience so it is not just an assumption, but a result of my direct experience. The strong :sick comes from churches that do not allow women to even be present at the meetings, or if they allow them in the door, they do not allow them to speak. Some churches "allow" women to write down their comments on scraps of paper and then give it to a man, who gets to decide if he wants to read it or not. For women that do not have husbands, they have no "representative." I have seen how this can play out irl, and it can be downright sickening *to me.* I realize that others can see and experience the same things and feel very differently about it. Just my experience and my opinion. It's okay if you have a different experience (and I hope you do!!!)

I just wanted the OP to be aware of the wide range of beliefs within the Lutheran church so that if she decided to try out the denom, she could maybe do some research beforehand about which type of Lutheran church would be the best fit for *her.* Church shopping it so difficult so the quicker you can narrow down the options, the easier it can be. No use trying a church out if their basic beliefs are going to be offensive to you.

[2sunshines]

:hugheart I'm sorry you had a bad experience. There are lots of bad experiences in churches unfortunately. :(

My caution was to simply be careful when using such strong emoticons as :sick when talking about different denomination, especially since we are on a board where there is so much Christian diversity. :)

[MercyInDisguise]

I attended a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) back in TX, which is RIDICULOUSLY AP-friendly, mostly due to the pastor and his wife being so AP. They cosleep, breastfeed into toddlerhood, gentle discipline, babywearing, natural birthing, etc. (They do time-out, but not in a super punitive/shaming way, if that makes sense.) She has helped a lot of the women in the church learn these things. Really the only parenting thing preached from the pulpit is that parents are to guide and discipline their children, but no specifics on HOW that is to happen. :tu Unfortunately, I left this church when I married DH, so I failed to appreciate how awesome it was until I had C. :sigh

We attend an EPC now (Evangelical Presbyterian Church) which is decidedly NOT AP friendly. It is the closest thing we can find theologically to what we believe (we would prefer to be in a PCA, but nothing close to us), so we tolerate it. We are actually planning to share our GBD views with our pastor in the near future. DH's stepdad is an elder there, and he knows our views and is fine with them, so... who knows. :shrug

[trish101]

I hope I'm doing this right- I'm new to the board :-)

We've struggled since having dd 4 years ago. Our first church, the one we attended when she was born, had a lot of harsh disciplinarian type people in it. They were nice people, but were pro-spanking and very not our style. It was hard because I didn't feel like I could be myself.

We tried another church that was very GD, the assistant pastor's wife actually taught parenting classes that were very GD. The church was too big though, and there were a lot of people who volunteered to work with the kids who were not on board with GD.

What worked for us was to find a really small church so we could be very involved and dd could know all the people who would be teaching Sunday school. My sister and I are able to alternate weeks teaching so she doesn't have to go alone, and the church is VERY kid friendly.

So, my advice: Look for small churches and keep trying until you find the right one. We have all types of parents at ours, but everyone mostly does a great job of keeping the focus on Jesus and not anyone else, so parenting styles don't come up much.

Good luck :-)

[2sunshines]

I agree with the small church recommendation. That's totally how we got involved in our current church. We lived in the country and it was the closest church. It's small and so family oriented and I love that I know everybody. I love that the whole church really is my church family. :heart

[RainbowMummy]

:yes

This is what concerns me slightly with questions like these. Because doctrine should be the absolute epitome when considering what church is the best fit for your family.



I can understand what you are saying here but I can empathise with the original poster too. This is something DH & I have struggled with the last few years. We agree mostly with the doctrine in our church but our lifestyle is so different to those at church that I've ended up feeling like I have two separate lives. My life with my church friends where I'm on edge & feel I have to be careful what I say about my day to day life so I don't offend anyone yet I get Biblical discussion & my life with my AP friends where I can relax & talk about co-sleeping/breastfeeding/healthy foods choices etc without being afraid I'll offend someone.
I still feel torn about this as part of the reason I want a solid church life for my children is so that they will have like minded children to grow up with. That the families our children mix with also teach their children manners & to give thanks & to respect parents etc but in many ways they aren't like minded. My children are often asking me why someone is leaving their baby crying in a pram as they rock it, all the other children get red cordial & load up their plates with sugary foods, they get smacked, they obey their parents but they don't really think for themselves so won't often think to help out unless told to etc
My husband isn't worried about the doctrine side of things...I should clarify! We both grow up in churches where a lot of Theology was taught & had 45min to 1 hour sermons. We have come to realise that while theology is important, LIVING as Christ would is important too. My husband feels that IF a choice has to be made..we can teach our children doctrine but we are fighting an uphill battle to teach them how we believe they should live if we surround them with people who live differently to us.
We are still working & praying through whether doctrine in the church is really the the absolute epitome? not so much the idea of going to a church with doctrine we disagree with but perhaps a church with less doctrine than we are used to.

[Love is...]

I think doctrine is the most important thing. I can let some things go, others, I can't. But, I need to know that my pastor has a real relationship with God and a respectful fear of messing up His word. I need someone that knows the Word enough that when I need help he/she has the help I need. When I'm confused they can see through my darkness and bring me the light.

That said, if I left my child in the nursery and even though I told the worker to call me at the first sign of distress and they didn't, we would have a conversation.

Yes, I am the only AP person at my church. They spank, they teach spanking up to a point, but they teach more love than the other. They teach grace and showing our children Christ's love. So, even though I don't believe that spanking is good for our children, I do believe that it's better to tell me to spank than to tell my child something I am theologically opposed to in Sunday School, where I may NEVER know what was said.

That said, I teach my children's Sunday School class. The teachers on Wednesday nights and Sunday nights know me. They know my expectations of my children and they know my expectations of them. Just as they put trust in me to teach their children and to love their children on Sunday Mornings, they are expected to do the same on the other nights.

Now, our church encourages families to stay together in the sanctuary, but we have classes to give the parents choices. Personally, I like it. I can fully worship and pray with my eyes closed without worrying about someone running down the aisle in escape mode. But, hey, that's my opinion, right.

[twentysixcats]

I agree with the suggestion to find a smaller church. In my experience, larger churches tend to have places for everyone - nursery, kid's church, sermon for adults. They tend to be less accommodating if you want to do something different. They also have thoroughly thought through their beliefs, and are less willing to consider an alternative. (My experience, anyways. We used to go to a church with 3k or 4k members.) I've also noticed that churches that air videos or recordings of their services tend to be more concerned with children making noises in the service. Our former church had a room for "small families" where you could watch the sermon streamed on a screen, but it was basically a room where parents would sit and the kids would run around crazy - you couldn't hear anything.

We go to a small church now, and I think it's a lot more accepting of AP. Instead of being the one mom to wear my baby out of 50, I'm only one out of 5. And when you aren't in SUCH the minority, I think people are more willing to let you speak. In fact, I'm considering starting a Bible study that promotes grace, something I could *never* do in the other church.

Also, our church purposefully targets the international community - we are bilingual English/Spanish. I am sure this is not true across the board, but I have personally been more comfortable in international communities. (I am a missionary kid and grew up in South America so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.) There are SO many cultures that people are just generally more accepting of seemingly "weird" beliefs, if that makes sense.

[WanderingJuniper]

I have heard and experienced the Methodist church being supportive of AP style parenting. We don't attend one bc of a few doctrinal differences but if our current congregation wasn't available we would go to one.

[rjy9343]

I have to agree that if it is lifestyle or doctrine, I will go for lifestyle. I am very conservative theologically, but I have not found a church where my beliefs line up with where I am at this point in my life. It is more important to me that Ivy be treated with love and grace and the she be given a chance to grow in Christ even if it is not as doctrinally sound as I would like than it is for her to hear the word, but see and experience harsh treatment in the name of God. Even a year ago, I would have :hunh at that statement. And here I am making it. That said, I am not saying go to First Church of Satan if it makes you feel good about what you have chosen.:no I am saying that it is worth at least considering a church with a slant that is a little more liberal than you would have accepted pre kids because they are more likely to let you parent in peace. The more conservative churches have a tendency to pressure you into cio, leaving them to cry in the nursery, spank and so on. Or so that has been my experience. YMMV. The other thing is that the word of God does not return void. So even if the official church tolerates something you do not like, if the individual church is preaching God's word, you will still learn and grow. Again that is just my experience, others will have other thoughts. I wish this were less rambled,but I have a toddler that is certain the fate of world rests on her ability to defeat the safety measures J and I have put in place to keep her in one piece. I have stopped typing at about every other sentence to gomb parent.

[RainbowMummy]

I think the thing for me isn't so much that doctrine isn't important, it is! but if all the people around us live so differently to how we in our own family believe Christ wants us to live it ends being a bit like teaching our children to love one another, be helpful to one another etc & yet no one in our church lives as Christ would (or rather as we are telling our children Christ would want us to live). Technically we might hold to the same doctrines but our children don't see that...not till they are much older will that be noticed by them.....but they do see people being clicky, they do us being the only one giving someone a meal, they do hear one of the pastors saying from the pulpit that it's better to eat meals at a table. I don't want to skint on doctrine but I don't want to confuse my kids by saying one thing but showing them another.

[aleigh]

I'm also in a PCA church. It's a super crunchy church (which is not at all why we chose it, but it is). Lots & lots & lots of AP families- so much so that I often feel a bit odd because I'm not as extreme.

But, I like that I have options. I can put my DD in the nursery if I want (and I do). I can keep her with me & take her to the cry-room if she gets disturbing. My DS is in service with us & then leaves for Kid's Worship during the sermon time, but doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. Lots of families stay together the entire service. Lots of families send their kids to the nursery & to Kid's Worship. I know someone from the nursery will come get me if my DD gets upset & they can't soothe her (never, ever happens, btw- she loves the nursery & has a blast playing on Sundays).

But- when my DS was little, he was almost NEVER left in the nursery alone after he hit 18 months. He would freak out & just cry & cry & cry. So, DH & I took turns staying in the nursery with him during the service. That was accepted & respected. Many offered to comfort him if we wanted to leave & we tried numerous times & would sit outside to see if he would be comforted by someone working the nursery. But, we were never forced out. The offer was always a friendly offer of help so we didn't have to miss the sermon.

That being said, the PCA is a big denomination with it's roots in the South, so if you live in the south, you might not have the same type of experience. (I'm NOT in the south.) But, they do look at children as covenant children, which is huge in the way my church community interacts with & values the children as an integral part of the church body.

I would not personally search for a church that openly supported AP parenting, but would look for a church that supported parents in loving & raising children who love Jesus. Different families function in different ways & I think the church should support that variety. For me, that means offering a loving, grace-filled, happy nursery for parents to utilize if they want. It means having limits on how long a child is allowed to be upset in the nursery (and I don't mean left upset to "work-it-out" on their own, but being comforted & held & loved-on by a nursery worker- I know some children who cry every single time they are left in the nursery & after 2 minutes of snuggling, they run & laugh & play the rest of the service- At our church the limit is 10 minutes & then someone goes to get a parent- I'm comfortable with that because I know if DD was upset, someone would be loving on her, NOT telling her to cheer up & get over it or, even worse, ignoring her) before mom or dad is called. It means respecting a parent who asks to be called immediately if their child is upset. It means having an easily accessible cry-room when mom or dad can still participate in worship & hear the sermon, but where they can comfort a fussy babe, change a diaper, or let an antsy toddler roam who doesn't want to be in a nursery. It means offering a place for older children who still might not be able to sit through a long sermon. It also means families having the freedom to worship together for the entire service or part of the service if they desire. These are all things that are important to me & help support my parenting & the way our family works.

I've also found that churches near or in an urban or metro area are a bit more socially progressive & hip- and, honestly, many of the trappings of AP are pretty "hip" right now, so you might have more success if you look at urban churches. We've been at urban PCA churches for almost 10 years now- 1st in NYC & now in the midwest & they've all had lots of kids in the services & very compassionate nursery/kid's programs. And, I don't know if this is true across the board, but the churches I've attended with strong compassion ministries- food pantries, homeless ministries, etc, etc- also seem to be more child-friendly. I know that's not a hard & fast rule (& also probably goes along with the urban-church thing), but it's just something I've noticed...

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on & on. I'm just typing my train of thought! :)

[Hopetobe]

I'm also in a PCA church. It's a super crunchy church (which is not at all why we chose it, but it is). Lots & lots & lots of AP families- so much so that I often feel a bit odd because I'm not as extreme.

But, I like that I have options. I can put my DD in the nursery if I want (and I do). I can keep her with me & take her to the cry-room if she gets disturbing. My DS is in service with us & then leaves for Kid's Worship during the sermon time, but doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. Lots of families stay together the entire service. Lots of families send their kids to the nursery & to Kid's Worship. I know someone from the nursery will come get me if my DD gets upset & they can't soothe her (never, ever happens, btw- she loves the nursery & has a blast playing on Sundays).

But- when my DS was little, he was almost NEVER left in the nursery alone after he hit 18 months. He would freak out & just cry & cry & cry. So, DH & I took turns staying in the nursery with him during the service. That was accepted & respected. Many offered to comfort him if we wanted to leave & we tried numerous times & would sit outside to see if he would be comforted by someone working the nursery. But, we were never forced out. The offer was always a friendly offer of help so we didn't have to miss the sermon.

That being said, the PCA is a big denomination with it's roots in the South, so if you live in the south, you might not have the same type of experience. (I'm NOT in the south.) But, they do look at children as covenant children, which is huge in the way my church community interacts with & values the children as an integral part of the church body.

I would not personally search for a church that openly supported AP parenting, but would look for a church that supported parents in loving & raising children who love Jesus. Different families function in different ways & I think the church should support that variety. For me, that means offering a loving, grace-filled, happy nursery for parents to utilize if they want. It means having limits on how long a child is allowed to be upset in the nursery (and I don't mean left upset to "work-it-out" on their own, but being comforted & held & loved-on by a nursery worker- I know some children who cry every single time they are left in the nursery & after 2 minutes of snuggling, they run & laugh & play the rest of the service- At our church the limit is 10 minutes & then someone goes to get a parent- I'm comfortable with that because I know if DD was upset, someone would be loving on her, NOT telling her to cheer up & get over it or, even worse, ignoring her) before mom or dad is called. It means respecting a parent who asks to be called immediately if their child is upset. It means having an easily accessible cry-room when mom or dad can still participate in worship & hear the sermon, but where they can comfort a fussy babe, change a diaper, or let an antsy toddler roam who doesn't want to be in a nursery. It means offering a place for older children who still might not be able to sit through a long sermon. It also means families having the freedom to worship together for the entire service or part of the service if they desire. These are all things that are important to me & help support my parenting & the way our family works.

I've also found that churches near or in an urban or metro area are a bit more socially progressive & hip- and, honestly, many of the trappings of AP are pretty "hip" right now, so you might have more success if you look at urban churches. We've been at urban PCA churches for almost 10 years now- 1st in NYC & now in the midwest & they've all had lots of kids in the services & very compassionate nursery/kid's programs. And, I don't know if this is true across the board, but the churches I've attended with strong compassion ministries- food pantries, homeless ministries, etc, etc- also seem to be more child-friendly. I know that's not a hard & fast rule (& also probably goes along with the urban-church thing), but it's just something I've noticed...

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on & on. I'm just typing my train of thought! :)

I agree, options like you mentioned are great. When DS is ready, then I wouldn't mind leaving him in the nursery where he could play and move around. Right now a cry room is something I'd like to see, but it seems like most churches around here don't have them. Thanks for the suggestions.

What are covenant children?

---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions so far. :)

I think the thing for me isn't so much that doctrine isn't important, it is! but if all the people around us live so differently to how we in our own family believe Christ wants us to live it ends being a bit like teaching our children to love one another, be helpful to one another etc & yet no one in our church lives as Christ would (or rather as we are telling our children Christ would want us to live). Technically we might hold to the same doctrines but our children don't see that...not till they are much older will that be noticed by them.....but they do see people being clicky, they do us being the only one giving someone a meal, they do hear one of the pastors saying from the pulpit that it's better to eat meals at a table. I don't want to skint on doctrine but I don't want to confuse my kids by saying one thing but showing them another.

This and some other PPs are similar to how I feel. I don't expect a Church telling me exactly how to raise my children, but if they are preaching things like pro-spanking or pushing super punitive parenting classes, that I don't think are sound, then that would be an issue.

[sockmonkey_runs]

I'm probably the odd one out here, but we're in a bigger church, and they are pretty accommodating toward our parenting styles and we attend a Methodist church. Though I haven't tried a different denomination since I was younger (and that was a Church of Christ church, and though it was fine, I didn't dig the music so much-- and to ME-- music is an essential key for powerful worship :shrug3).

Kids are fine while the service is going on, but there is also a cry room to the side that you can take out wiggly/crying little ones and still hear the sermon. This is awesome, for me anyway. They have a nursery there and an older Sunday school program for the bigger ones, but I've never felt pressured to use those (though we do). And I just happen to know that the nursery coordinator babywears so that's kinda cool, too. :rockon

But honestly, best bet is to look around and find a church that really fits well with you and your beliefs and your family. I wouldn't necessarily discount bigger churches JUST because they're big though-- but of course that's just my limited experience :yes

Oh, and :welcome2 to GCM! :giggle

[mamacat]

I dont know what kind of denom you are looking for but our experience with our local Vineyard church is that the pastor has not to my knowledge ever had a message about spanking and has not ever had any Ezzo or Pearl classes there. He does encourage the children to be a part of the worship and service and to move about as they need to or want to.I have never seen a child spanked there by a parent and they lean towards small groups even a group meeting on Sunday mornings in a sep smaller space with young babes and toddlers so they could kind of worship together.They are also super supportive of moms to be and new moms about needs and help and meals etc.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

Also have seen lots of moms nurse in main sanctuary

[Hopetobe]

I dont know what kind of denom you are looking for but our experience with our local Vineyard church is that the pastor has not to my knowledge ever had a message about spanking and has not ever had any Ezzo or Pearl classes there. He does encourage the children to be a part of the worship and service and to move about as they need to or want to.I have never seen a child spanked there by a parent and they lean towards small groups even a group meeting on Sunday mornings in a sep smaller space with young babes and toddlers so they could kind of worship together.They are also super supportive of moms to be and new moms about needs and help and meals etc.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

Also have seen lots of moms nurse in main sanctuary

That sounds like a pretty good setup. I don't know anything about Vineyard churches, but I'll have to look into them. Thanks! :)

[GraemesMomma]

Fascinating thoughts. We've lived in three different states this year (and, hence, gone through two church-searches) and this thread helped me internalize someofthe things we've struggled with in our searching.

The thing is, even if we wanted to, we find it difficult to compromise our theological persuasions in order to find a more "warm"/vibrant/personal church body. So its interesting to hear some of you contrast choosing a church for the doctrine OR the church life, essentially. So, for example, we've been attending a PCA for quite a few years. We infant baptized our children. It would be kind of going backwards to start attending another denom that views baptism as only believers baptism :-D

But I think it's more important for your children to see an authenticity between what you say you believe and where you choose to go to church. It would be kinda weird for us to tell our kids "We believe in paedo baptism" while attending a Baptist church. Unless we felt it to be authentic to say "We believe this but it's not a deal-breaker, so we've chosen this church because _________"

[jujubnme]

We actually believe in believer's baptism and are currently attending an Anglican church that practices paedo-baptism. Ds knows what we believe, why we didn't baptize him as a baby, and also why we chose to go to this church anyway, despite our differing views on this one issue. :shrug3

It seems to me that what a church teaches and how it interprets Scripture concerning family relationships and discipline is also part of its theology. It would be very hard for me to participate in a church that actively promoted a viewpoint diametrically opposed to what we teach and try to live out at home. For example, I just couldn't attend a church that supports the Pearls. That said, if a church is graceful towards differing points of view on family and discipline, but has some teaching that tends toward punitive, it is more likely to be a place where I could "agree to disagree."

So, I really think that when looking for a church that fits "theologically," certainly you should look for a match on the big issues and on as many points as you can. But I find how the church lives out their theology equally important.

I don't have any particular advice for the OP, as in my experience, the climate for AP can differ so greatly from church to church, even within denominations.

[wallflowermama]

I don't have any advice either...just my experience:shrug
I'm part of a bigger church that is pro-spanking. But we feel called to be there. A big part of it is the doctrinal side, but an even bigger part is praying and knowing where God wants us. We are open to move to another church only if that's what God wants.
In the meantime, we are being an example to other families of raising up our children full of grace, and offering resources(like books) and encouragements to use other methods of discipline rather than feeling like they have to spank all the time.
I am amazed at the changes over the last 6 years since my oldest dd was a baby. Things were very strict back then, but God has done such an awesome work. First of all, kids are now allowed in service(which before they were definitely not), a few families are changing their thinking on spanking, and just the overall attitude toward children has been changing.
When dd#1 was a baby we did leave our church for a year because of how bad it was and then God called us back, and we just decided to do things the way we saw fit and just let people deal with it. We were not going to change because of them. Like, for example, one of us would stay in dd#1's class with her at all times because we knew she'd have a much better time in there with other children, but that we also needed to be there to ease her into it. Some workers would have a problem with that, so we would either stay anyway or just take her with us to service. Eventually it has become accepted that if a parent needs to stay with their child, no big deal.
Now, with my baby dd#2, things are way easier and go more smoothly.
DH and I believe that when picking a church, the most important thing is knowing that's where God wants you, as long as they are a Bible-believing church, and that God can use US to make a difference in people's lives there just by being an example or a resource.

[trish101]

From what I have heard (this is second-hand information so take it with a grain of salt) our local Vineyard church made it clear that children should be in nursery, not in the service. This was years ago though, so the climate may have changed. This was just one church though, I wouldn't make a generalization about Vineyard as a whole just based on the one.

[gentlemommy]

From what I have heard (this is second-hand information so take it with a grain of salt) our local Vineyard church made it clear that children should be in nursery, not in the service. This was years ago though, so the climate may have changed. This was just one church though, I wouldn't make a generalization about Vineyard as a whole just based on the one.

I heard about a vineyard church that wouldn't allow children in the sanctuary. Hopefully these are exceptions rather than the rule. :(