not forcing affection

[WildFlower]

I saw this idea here somewhere, and talked to my husband about it. I had never heard of this before but think it's great. The problem is I don't know how to help Sweetpea form boundaries and uphold them when I feel like I am forced to show affection when I don't want and can't seem to politely decline.

My husband's family is big on physical affection but alot of it is obligatory. He said he HATED being forced to hug his grandma when he was a child. I don't want that for Sweetpea. It's not that he didn't love grandma but he was made to feel it was the "right" thing to do and that he had to do it, whether or not he wanted to . I can see us giving Sweetpea words and speaking for her as she gets older, telling the grandparents that if she WANTS to hug grandma or give her a kiss she can but we don't force it. Maybe encouraging her to wave or blow kisses instead if she feels more comfortable.

His family wants to hug each one of us when we arrive to see them AND when they leave. I really don't like this but have fallen into the habit of obliging because i don't know any polite way to decline that won't hurt their feelings. I don't mind hugging when we leave but I really don't like hugging when we meet/greet as well. They ALWAYS bend down and kiss Sweetpea when they/we leave and say "Give me sugar!!!!" I always feel :-/ about this. They make it sound obligatory even. Why not just ask if they can give her a kiss or hug instead of telling her to give it to them. Right now she's usually in my arms when leaving but I can see them trying to force the issue as she gets older.

Any suggestions on how to politely enforce body boundaries? For myself and to help Sweetpea when she gets older? or even now?

[Kiara.I]

For yourself, you'll have to make that decision for yourself. And it probably won't be met with cries of appreciation from your DH's family.

(And can I just say, that "give me some sugar!!!" makes me feel queasy. :yuck:yuck:yuck)

For her, it's easier, because they haven't formed a pattern yet. (much.) As they're getting ready to leave, you could say, "You may *ask* sweetpea if she wants to hug you goodbye." And then follow it up immediately with "Sweetpea, would you like to give grandma a goodbye hug?" And if not, swoop her up immediately and say, "Okay, we'll wave instead," or something.

If one of them talks to you about it, explain that you want her to learn to be able to enforce her own boundaries about personal space, and that it is an important tool for protecting her from predators. Most grandparents will want that for their grandchild, and accordingly back down. (Here's hoping....) If it's too deeply ingrained for them, though, you can expect some anger...

[NeshamaMama]

My IL's are like this too. Aside from the forcing affection bit, I also hate it because it takes FOREVER to get out the door with them, when all I really want to do is say, "Hey, we have to get going, see you soon!" and wave and leave. I'll be reading along for ideas. :)

[PrincessAnika]

:popcorn

we're still learning too. the one thing we are doing is when someone "asks" dd1 (orders? :shifty) a hug we immediately follow up to dd1 with "dd1, grammie would like a hug, would you like to give her one? no? ok. do you think you could wave?" (and physically protecting her by picking her up as needed) of course dh being blunt and having no filter between his mouth and his brain :giggle kinda helps, he usually just says something along the lines of 'we don't force affection with our children. you will not either' :doh

[Stiina]

Great thread. But along the lines of what you said, Kiara, the 'protecting from predators' I could see my MIL getting SO offended if I said that. She would completely misunderstand it and would say something like "But I'm his GRAMMA. I'm not going to hurt him" etc... :eyeroll

We do the "do you want to give X a hug/kiss/high five/wave?" and if not we cheerfully say "OK! Next time!" and nobody has been offended yet. :tu

[Kiara.I]

She would completely misunderstand it and would say something like "But I'm his GRAMMA. I'm not going to hurt him" etc... :eyeroll

"Lovely. And s/he has to be able to say "no" to safe people, in order to learn how to say "no" to unsafe people. Thank you for being willing to assist us in helping her/him to learn these critically important skills. We appreciate it."

But I'm pushy like that. ;)

[mommy9994]

this is a biggie in dh's family, because of thier culture. Cheek kissing and hugging is THE accepted greeting (even if you have never met the person before). Fortunately, my hubby feels the same way I do, and our children do not hug/kiss if they don't want to. Most of them, eventually, have accepted this as part of thier culture, and do the obligatory cheek kiss-kiss and a little squeeze.

My 4 year old DOES NOT kiss or hug anyone-- only Mom and Dad, EVER, and would scream if someone were to try to kiss or hug her. It's just her personality. She may outgrow it, she may not :shrug3recently, she was pretending that step-granddad was her horse "Brownie"-- we were eging her on and told her that horses like to be petted... she she pet his head before she "rode" his leg. We told her that horsies like to be pet and have a little kissie when they are done riding... we KNEW she would have no part of THAT, but surprisingly, she rubbed his head and kissed him on top of his head... he said "hey, I'll take what I get" LOL she had never, in all of her 4 years kissed him LOL

[rjy9343]

My MIL is all about hugging and kissing and will try to force it on Ivy. Ivy however will have no part of it, so it is a bit easier for me. His family is not happy that I do not encourage affection and do not allow others to do so. My favorite argument so far is that if we do not hug her, then when some boy wants to hug her she'll let him do what ever he wants. :rolleyes4 His mother thinks that since she is her grandmother she should get to hug her whenever. :no2 I am pretty aggressive about preventing that because Ivy does not want to be hugged. I am also of the very firm and unshakable opinion that Ivy's body is just that. Ivy's. No one has any right to it, ever. If she chooses to share her body with you by hugging, fine. If she wants to kiss you, fine. I have explained she needs to be able to tell safe people no, so that she can feel like she has the right to tell unsafe people no. It goes right over his family's head. I have also suggested that when she chooses to hug me it is so much sweeter than any coerced hug would ever be. It was a waste of breath.
I am not sure if you can do this without rocking the boat. You are shaking up the family dynamics. That is not going to go unnoticed. Nor will everyone appreciate it because you are issuing a direct challenge. Even J who sort of gets that Ivy does not welcome being touched is on the fence with this one. Right now he figures since she is little we have to humor her. But what happens if she is just being a brat is a question I have heard several times. :banghead:ph Um, her body is hers, not theirs. She does not have to share it. Not everyone will understand that or respect that. But that is not your concern or problem. Your concern is your daughter and what makes her feel safe.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

We basically do what the others have said. We also taught Lydia how to give High Fives and she'll do that sometimes instead.

It's also hard for us b/c whenever we leave my family, Lydia's always tired, so she's much less willing to hug anyone then. And yeah, I totally understand just wanting to get out the door. :-/

[WildFlower]

DH and I were talking about this again and it hasn't really become an issue yet that we've really had to say anything to them about,mostly because she's in our arms as we leave, and she's little enough they haven't tried to force her to "come give" them a hug or kiss.

BUT the problem is the continued "give me sugar" and then MIL kisses her on the cheek, as I hold her. DD sometimes leans into me to hide her face, sometimes not, but never "cooperates". So I really want to say something to stop this now, instead of letting it continue. DH is fine with me saying something or him, but neither of us sure WHAT. I totally have scripted him on " we don't force affection" thing, but Can we say this in regards the kissing/sugar thing? Should we just say " You may ask her for a kiss, but please don't say that" or something else? Since DD doesn't really respond when they kiss her cheek, I'm not sure what to say/do, but I don't want MIL to continue this because it WILL lead into forcing affection. I don't think DD needs to GIVE them anything, much less sugar, as she isn't a cookie or pastry, :giggle Please give me some good scripts? DH told me, I should ask you all for some scripts as we are at a loss...

[Castle On A Cloud]

In situations like that (when we arrive), I either keep baby/something in my arms, something to make myself too occupied to hug/kiss someone, or just say hi, and walk on and occupy myself elsewhere:yes And when we are getting ready to go, sometimes people will ask for a hug/kiss from the kids, but if they show any hesitation, I ask them "DD, would you like to give so-and-so a hug/kiss goodbye? No? Okay, bye you guys..." and we are on our way.

[Stiina]

:up Yes, that.

With a pushy family, they will come in and try to give kisses no matter how busy-ing you are making yourself. I usually say "Looks like gramma wants a kiss. Can you give her a kiss? Not today? Ok! Next time!"

and when we're leaving we do the same thing - "No kisses? Ok, say bye bye!!"

Sounds like your MIL might push the issue though. Then it's time for "She obviously doesn't want to give you a kiss. We'd appreciate it if you'd wait until she is ready to show affection".

[Teribear]

This is where you've got to be ok with being perceived as rude. It's far more important for your DD to know that her body is her own than for the adults traditional greetings/farewells to be honored. I get it, I do. I live in the south where "give me some sugar" is practically a command. I was sexually abused (fondled) by a customer in our family business because of being unable to say no to such things. I decided VERY early on in DD's life that I WOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow her to be coerced into shows of affection. It made waves. I don't care. I now have an assertive, confident 14 year old that I worry very little about ever being taken advantage of in any way. Trust me that's worth ANY awkwardness and hard feelings that may have resulted when she was younger and needed my protection.

[rjy9343]

Personal space is for babies/toddlers/children, too.
Let's let her get her bearings and then see if she is up to affection.
See how she is turning away? That means she needs some space. Let's honor that need
Those are my least combative scripts. There are others on this thread that can give you better when they see the thread.

---------- Post added at 04:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 AM ----------

Give me sugar, is forcing affection. We aren't or don't force affection is totally acceptable IMO.

[megmac]

I haven't read the other replies but my ds is like this. He hates kisses and only cuddles me and dh.

My ds is almost 4, so I tend to run interference for him at the moment.;)

When he was very little I would always whisk him away and make some excuse to get away from the over affectionate relative. Now that he is older I'll just them he doesn't like it and usually find myself physically barring them from touching him.

If someone is going to get offended because a child doesn't want to kiss/cuddle, well that's their problem :shrug3. My job is to keep my child safe and secure. I'd rather offend a relative then continually upset my child.

[swimming with sharks]

You can do it Momma.:cheer :hug I know this is hard. :yes You CAN NOT maintain your dd's boundaries of body space here and have your MIL remain happy. :shrug3It's not going to happen. :no It's great that you want to be kind and some ladies have given you some nice scripts :tu but.....none of them are going to make this an EASY thing to do. SERIOUSLY, having kids and being an active parent is such a *GROWING* experience for us. :heart

[MaySunflowers]

I have no trouble enforcing this boundary... but I think that's a me thing... I get creeped out if I feel forced to shake someone's hand sometimes.... have been known to stare at a hand for a moment too long a time or too. :lol

The boundaries are mine. Mine kids have the right to make decisions based on how they feel about people and showing affection or holding back. I think often they need to be won over, not forced to get used to it. So, I verbalize what I know my child is wanting so both the adult in question can know what is happening and the child can know it is ok to say no. Its really that simple to me... if anyone says something like "oh but I'm ____", then I step in front and its a conversation between me and them not one through my child.

[DolphinMemae]

I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'd like to suggest a different approach - at least in the beginning.

It just seems to me like many of the suggestions are responding in a very similar way to the behavior that you all seem to find offensive, just with the opposite intent. What I mean is, you don't like people being pushy or demanding w/ showing affection, yet the suggested responses seem to be equally pushy or demanding.

Just putting myself in the shoes of a grandparent who wants to give kisses and/or hugs when arriving or leaving, I would feel better if the parents explained to me the reasons why it's important to give a child the option to show affection or not, and do it in a way that invites the grandparents to nurture the grandchild by entering into reinforcing the child exercising choice. Then the responses suggested when a kiss or hug is asked for would be seen as a reminder that "we" are encouraging the respect of the child's choice rather than setting the situation up to be adversarial.

I know not every grandparent would respond in a positive way, but it seems like a grandparent should at least be shown the respect to be given the benefit of the doubt initially.

[Amahoro]

Subbing because I'm in this situation at the moment with my parents. I'm still trying to establish my boundaries wrt affection & navigate through mum's messy emotions as a result.

[MaySunflowers]

My FIL does a great thing (but he has no understanding of children so I don't know how he has come by it). He comes over, greats everyone with smiles and chat, then sits on the sofa and asks the kids questions. Before long them are all over him with enthusiasm. He unknowingly gives them the chance to do it their own way but with encouragement.

Maybe introducing a sort of greeting time like that might help?

Maybe a plan with that would help to illustrate...

The door is all about getting ready to come in or getting ready to go out...

Grandma comes in all happy, you are there to great her (or husband).
Grandma "oh? where are the kids?"
YOU/HUBBY "They are in the sitting room/kitchen with mommy/daddy, waiting to say hello." or maybe little one has made a picture for you?
The parent can be close by as a bit of a barrier ready to guide the greeting.
ADULT: "Hello blah blah... have a seat and take a look at this lovely picture of a _____ made for you."
Turn the focus a bit from instant kisses to something else so the little one has more time to warm up and make her own intensions clear.

[Teribear]

I agree that ideally this would be discussed beforehand and not require such ASSERTIVE (I completely disagree with the pushy/demanding characterization of these responses by the way) responses in the moment. HOWEVER, having grown up in the south and seen this kind of behavior from total strangers (never mind that they are great aunt so and so at the family reunion, if my child does not have an ongoing relationship with you then you are a stranger) including having experienced it being expected of me by dirty old men that came into my grandparent's place of business (where I was cared for after school while my mother worked) I tend to presume that some degree of forcefulness and willingness culturally to be perceived as rude is both expected and necessary. I'm completely ok with that.

It seemed from the OP that such a conversation had been attempted already and was ignored so these more assertive measures are the next step. The step after that is refusing to be around said pushy relatives until such boundaries are respected. Physical expressions of affection from others, especially children, is NEVER a right. It is always the offering of the giver. Period.

[juliew]

I'm a hugger, so this one is kind of hard for me, but I can appreciate personal boundaries. I think hugging is a learned response/action. I guess hugging should not be forced, but I think it's at least important to teach your children to greet someone.

[WildFlower]

This is where you've got to be ok with being perceived as rude. It's far more important for your DD to know that her body is her own than for the adults traditional greetings/farewells to be honored. I live in the south where "give me some sugar" is practically a command.QUOTE]
I had no idea that it was a southern thing. It felt icky to me but I didn't know why. I hadn't ever heard ANYone else use these terms aside from MIL and grandMIL. Although we don't live in the south, grandMIL IS from the south and all their extended family is there. So your comment has opened my eyes to the fact, it probably came from where grandma grew up. Actually DH grandma isn't very forceful about it, MIL very much uses it as a command and then gives DD a kiss, like it or not. Even so, I want to deal with it now before it leads to bigger issues. I told DH last night before I saw your reply that I can let the "terms" go even though they sound icky to me, but not the fact that she's forcing affection onto our dd.

[QUOTE=Teribear;4254293]I agree that ideally this would be discussed beforehand and not require such ASSERTIVE (I completely disagree with the pushy/demanding characterization of these responses by the way) responses in the moment.
It seemed from the OP that such a conversation had been attempted already and was ignored so these more assertive measures are the next step. The step after that is refusing to be around said pushy relatives until such boundaries are respected. Physical expressions of affection from others, especially children, is NEVER a right. It is always the offering of the giver. Period.
I should clarify... we haven't had a sit down conversation with them on this. DH and I have discussed it between ourselves and both of us are in agreement that we won't force affection or allow anyone else to. We had just let MIL kiss her and ignored what she was saying, because dd is in our arms and not protesting when she does this. DD doesn't want to GO to MIL usually though. DD takes her time to warm up to people. But I can see where the whole kissing business is leading, especially with the commanding attitude and phrasing. So I'd rather say something now so they can offer to give her a kiss and she has the option to decline or accept if she wants vs it being forced upon her.


I hope I don't offend anyone, but I'd like to suggest a different approach - at least in the beginning.
I would feel better if the parents explained to me the reasons why it's important to give a child the option to show affection or not, and do it in a way that invites the grandparents to nurture the grandchild by entering into reinforcing the child exercising choice. Then the responses suggested when a kiss or hug is asked for would be seen as a reminder that "we" are encouraging the respect of the child's choice rather than setting the situation up to be adversarial.



It doesn't offend me. I will discuss this with DH but I was actually thinking last night, in bed, that maybe sitting them down and explaining why it's important to us and tell them we would appreciate their cooperation and then when /if it continues to happen we can remind them that we don't force affection and offer them an acceptable script such as "you may say, Sweetpea may I give you a kiss goodbye?"
I think otherwise we will end up making them frustated but they won't really understand. They may still not understand but at least we've given them a chance to by explaining ahead of time instead of just in the moment, so to speak!:yes

[Teribear]

It is so culturally expected down here that often resistance is met with "I'm going to steal your sugar" which icks me out beyond measure. As a naturally compliant child I was a victim waiting to happen and it didn't take too many years for that to occur...I will openly admit to having "baggage" around this issue so take my advice knowing that for ME this is a "hill to die on" where for others it may very well be possible to work around it in a much less forceful manner.

[WildFlower]

I am a sensitive person and so is my dd. This is a hill I am willing to die on because I know that when a person is a sensitive like myself we become "compliant" because we don't want to hurt others feelings and want to please people. I was never sexually abused but I want my dd to have strong personal boundaries and not feel like she has to do anything for other people just because they make her feel like she "should" . I was not taught strong boundaries and it affects me to this day. That is why it is SO incredibly hard for me now, but for my DD I will stand up. Although I wasn't taught to have alot of good boundaries, I will say my mother did stand up for me as a young child and was my protector. My father was a pastor and many were the parishoners that would say "Oh you are so CUTE I am going to take you home with me!" I would hide in fright behind my mothers skirt and she would politely tell them, I wasn't going home with anyone! She didn't make me go to anyone either. Even though I wasn't taught some of the boundaries I wish I had been as I got older, I will say my mother did a good job standing up for me as a child. That is why I am determined in this matter now to help my daughter become confident and be aloud to say no now, as well as later.

[DolphinMemae]

It doesn't offend me. I will discuss this with DH but I was actually thinking last night, in bed, that maybe sitting them down and explaining why it's important to us and tell them we would appreciate their cooperation and then when /if it continues to happen we can remind them that we don't force affection and offer them an acceptable script such as "you may say, Sweetpea may I give you a kiss goodbye?"
I think otherwise we will end up making them frustated but they won't really understand. They may still not understand but at least we've given them a chance to by explaining ahead of time instead of just in the moment, so to speak!:yes

Exactly! Thank you.

[Amahoro]

I am dealing with PA from my mother right this second because I'm not hugging her 'properly'. She uses physical strength to keep me there & I'm literally having to lock my body & push HARD to get out of it.

I'm so tired of the sulking whining because I don't hug her 'properly' (ie. the way she wants it)... But honestly? It's claustrophobic and creepy for me.

[Kiara.I]

Can you just not hug her?

[Amahoro]

I'm working out how to do that... :giggle

[Kiara.I]

"No thanks"
"I'm feeling a bit prickly at the moment, I'd just like some space"

And if all else fails--
"Mom, I don't want to hug you."
"I don't want a hug"
"Don't hug me"
"YOU may NOT touch my body without permission!"

[Zooey]

This is where you've got to be ok with being perceived as rude. It's far more important for your DD to know that her body is her own than for the adults traditional greetings/farewells to be honored. I get it, I do. I live in the south where "give me some sugar" is practically a command. I was sexually abused (fondled) by a customer in our family business because of being unable to say no to such things. I decided VERY early on in DD's life that I WOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow her to be coerced into shows of affection. It made waves. I don't care. I now have an assertive, confident 14 year old that I worry very little about ever being taken advantage of in any way. Trust me that's worth ANY awkwardness and hard feelings that may have resulted when she was younger and needed my protection. I agree.

Personal space is for babies/toddlers/children, too.
Let's let her get her bearings and then see if she is up to affection.
See how she is turning away? That means she needs some space. Let's honor that need
Those are my least combative scripts. There are others on this thread that can give you better when they see the thread. :clap

---------- Post added at 04:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 AM ----------

Give me sugar, is forcing affection. We aren't or don't force affection is totally acceptable IMO. I agree, & that whole expression "sugar" makes me :sick:sick:sick .
I would so not let that expresion continue. In fact, *I* would make it a deal breaker. "Eventually, she may feel comfortable giving you a kiss or hug, but it is only fair to tell you that I will prevent it until you stop using :sick demanding phrases like 'give me sugar' which I regard as offensive".

---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------

I agree that ideally this would be discussed beforehand and not require such ASSERTIVE (I completely disagree with the pushy/demanding characterization of these responses by the way) responses in the moment. HOWEVER, having grown up in the south and seen this kind of behavior from total strangers (never mind that they are great aunt so and so at the family reunion, if my child does not have an ongoing relationship with you then you are a stranger) including having experienced it being expected of me by dirty old men that came into my grandparent's place of business (where I was cared for after school while my mother worked) I tend to presume that some degree of forcefulness and willingness culturally to be perceived as rude is both expected and necessary. I'm completely ok with that.

It seemed from the OP that such a conversation had been attempted already and was ignored so these more assertive measures are the next step. The step after that is refusing to be around said pushy relatives until such boundaries are respected. Physical expressions of affection from others, especially children, is NEVER a right. It is always the offering of the giver. Period.

It is so culturally expected down here that often resistance is met with "I'm going to steal your sugar" which icks me out beyond measure. As a naturally compliant child I was a victim waiting to happen and it didn't take too many years for that to occur...I will openly admit to having "baggage" around this issue so take my advice knowing that for ME this is a "hill to die on" where for others it may very well be possible to work around it in a much less forceful manner.
Yeah, that makes me :sick:mad:sick just :dohthinking about anybody saying that.


I was, thankfully, never forced to show affection to anyone.
I was never molested, but--the one person who :sickicked:sick me :sickout so thoroughly that I would run & hide in my closet until he left? He turned out to be a molester. That was a God-given instinct on my part, I believe, to protect me from him.

[Castle On A Cloud]

Yeah... it stinks that sometimes the subtle, and even not so subtle hints go un-noticed by people. Unfortunately, that means that sometimes we just have to be a bit more, stern, i guess, with our wording. Ideally someone would simply say 'no thank you' to a hug, and that would be that... But when people are just not going to respect your boundaries, then being more harsh is warranted:shrug3

[rjy9343]

I want to point out that insisting on changing terminology in your presence is not going to win over your ils. While give me sugar does not bother me, it clearly stirs up some big feelings in others. Focus on the act and not the words. Give me sugar is a very regionaly acceptable thing to say and most do not mean anything by it. Admittedly forcing kids to kiss grandma is, too. But let's focus on the action first since some of us (myself included) are doing a massive shake up in family dynamics. If it is made about the action, then the term it's self will be used less and less without you saying anything and you look good. Just my take on the whole sugar term.

[WildFlower]

I want to point out that insisting on changing terminology in your presence is not going to win over your ils. While give me sugar does not bother me, it clearly stirs up some big feelings in others. Focus on the act and not the words. Give me sugar is a very regionaly acceptable thing to say and most do not mean anything by it. Admittedly forcing kids to kiss grandma is, too. But let's focus on the action first since some of us (myself included) are doing a massive shake up in family dynamics. If it is made about the action, then the term it's self will be used less and less without you saying anything and you look good. Just my take on the whole sugar term.


I totally agree!:yes as much as I have a problem with the whole sugar term, it makes me :sick, I CAN let the term go because I now realize it is normal to her and where her family is from. But the way it which it is demanded/said, IS forced affection. Even if she substituted "give me a kiss" it would still be inappropriate. So I intend to go the route of dealing with the action not the term. If she were to say "may I give you some sugar?" that would be so much more acceptable. Even though DD wouldn't have a clue what she meant, I could tell DD , "that's grandma's way of asking if she can give you a kiss".

[Kiara.I]

If she were to say "may I give you some sugar?" that would be so much more acceptable.

I'd even leave the *phrase* alone as long as the *actions* were a request, know what I mean? "May I have some sugar" actually just sounds funny. It simply isn't in the lexicon. But if Grandma stood back, arms held wide in that "come hug me" gesture and said "Give me some sugar" and *waited*, I would have much less problem with that.