s/o: do public schools in your area support virtual academies???

[Soliloquy]

Because in my state they do NOT!! In fact, the teacher's union gave millions of dollars to the governor's campaign fund to ensure he would sign a bill effectively killing the virtual academy in our state. (Basucally, the VA started out small but was growing. Now, current students can continue but no new students can enroll. I have a friend who uses the VA and was active in the fight against the teacher's union). The teacher's union hates VAs, charters, parochial schools, and HSing. Anything that could possibly indicate that a child can be educated for less than $8,000 per year under union teachers.


I have first-hand experience with this. I sat in a mtg where the question was raised, "what can we do to stem the tide of homeschooling and get these families back into the piublic schools?". I taught for 3 years at the very first non-union public school in my state. It was chartered through a state university, not the locak school district. The teacher's union tried all kinds of nasty tricks to make us lose our funding. They did manage to get our bus funding pulled, even though we were a public school, legally chartered. When I stopped teaching, that was still hung up in the courts.

So yes, I have seen open hostility from the piublic schools and teacher's union toward any alternative schooling that doesn't utilize union teachers.

[Havilah]

Ours do. We're in GA. :)

[Laurlor]

I'm not sure what you mean...support in what way? I'm part of a VA so I'm interested in the topic.

[cindergretta]

WA has a multitude of them. Not only can we use them, we can choose from many. :giggle There is even one for homeschoolers where you use your own curriculum, etc., but they give you an "allocation" to purchase supplies, memberships, lessons, etc.

[WanderingJuniper]

VAs in my state can be public charters. Is that what you mean? :think Not all VAs in my state are public charters but the public ones are the most common.

[Soliloquy]

By support I mean does the teacher's union and/or brick-and-mortar public schools have a positive view of VAs or do they try to get them shut down?

In the recent locked thread about homeschooling vs. Public school at home some people wrote that local school districts encourage the VAs.

It is very hostile here in WI. The teacher's union HATES the VA we have here.

[Lantern Light Mama]

The first thing I did was check your location and make sure something wasn't going on here that I didn't know about. I just signed DS up for one of these to get the free curriculum for him. It seems like your state is kinda shady on the homeschooling front.

[Ima LeShalosh]

AZ supports them...DS was enrolled for a year with AZVA.

[Mamaka]

We're part of a VA in WA and up until this year, VAs have had no problem in this state. That's all changed this past year; there have been several pieces of anti-VA legislation that we've had to fight which the state teacher's union has supported. My dh is a public school teacher in a closed shop school so he's been hearing more and more from the local and state union about the VAs and how the union wants to limit them and ultimately get rid of them. :( Which is sort of interesting since the largest VA is run by a state school district with state certified and card-carrying union members teaching in it.

[KatieMae]

The VA in Georgia is a public charter school; it is NOT homeschooling. They utilize state-certified [potentially union, though not only union] teachers to oversee each family's progress. Because it's a publicly-funded school, they support it.

[Lantern Light Mama]

It is sad to hear they might be changing things in WA soon then. This year I thought we'd try CVA (at like 99% which makes the kids exempt from Wasala but not other testing). You have to "talk" to your teacher every week by phone or email but that is really it. I think if you are local to VA then you have to physically meet with a teacher or something. This all makes me so nervous. :/ :nails I wonder what will happen to CVA if they really do start changing things?

[Havilah]

The VA in Georgia is a public charter school; it is NOT homeschooling. They utilize state-certified [potentially union, though not only union] teachers to oversee each family's progress. Because it's a publicly-funded school, they support it.


Yeah. I didn't realize all the subtleties until other folks posted.

It's sort of funny to me... I've had several people tell me how "great!" the GVA was, but none of them continued to use it past one year. :scratch :doh

[KatieMae]

The VA in Georgia is a public charter school; it is NOT homeschooling. They utilize state-certified [potentially union, though not only union] teachers to oversee each family's progress. Because it's a publicly-funded school, they support it.


Yeah. I didn't realize all the subtleties until other folks posted.

It's sort of funny to me... I've had several people tell me how "great!" the GVA was, but none of them continued to use it past one year. :scratch :doh

Well, GVA is great if you want school-at-home but I personally disagree with the modern definition and practice of education [alt, see: charlotte mason] so this is 100% not for us. However, there are a LOT of GVA'ers in this part of Atlanta. It's hard to find anyone who has done research on homeschooling options besides this. But, ya know, it's free boxed curriculum w/ all the bells & whistles :shrug3 I don't berate anyone for choosing it (afterall, I want parents to have the CHOICE! :yes) but discussing it can get very divisive so it's a topic best avoided :shifty

[Lantern Light Mama]

Wow, who knew it was divisive? gotta go-phone.

[erinee]

Both the public schools (at least the teacher's union) AND the homeschooling group in my area are adamently opposed to VCS. :( I was told we would not be allowed to participate in any of the homeschool group's activities, so we would have been 100% alone.

[Charlie U]

It is very hostile here in WI. The teacher's union HATES the VA we have here.


:yes2 It actually worries me very much. If Rebecca is still struggling in school, I told dh I want to pull her out and homeschool. I was looking at the VA and really like it for the structure. (She thrives on structure.)

I'm going to be going through a math program this summer with her. If it works, I will feel comfortable hsing as opposed to VA. But I really want that VA avaliable.

[Soliloquy]

We don't use a VA, we don't even consider ourselves homeschoolers but unschoolers. To other homeschoolers I say we are unschoolers but to just about everyone else I say we're homeschooling because I'm a bit weary of explaining it all the time.

But, I think VAs are an important alternative that should be available if families want them. I have been disgusted with the teacher's union (both nationally and locally) ever since I started going to school for my teaching license, when I had no intentions of homeschooloing and had never heard of unschooling.

Now that I'm a parent, that disgust has turned into outrage. The teacher's union wouldn't want to meet this Mama Bear in a dark alley, figuratively speaking. Their political actions in my state are blatant at taking away the rights of parents, even when licensed teachers are overseeing the VAs because a VA can school a child for MUCH less money per year than a brick-and-mortar school.

So, I was surprised to read that in other states it was less hostile.

homeschooling, overall, in WI is very solid and easy. Once a child turns 6, you sign a paper stating that you are homeschooling and send it in every year. That's it, not a thing more.

[Charlie U]

I was so sad with the outcome of the state superintendant election. The woman who lost, who I voted for, was pro-homeschooling, pro-VA, and pro-voucher program. The winner was none of that and 100% backed by the teacher's union.

I want it to stay simple to homeschool. One of the many reasons I quit my job was so we could have the homeschooling option. I want my girls to get the best education possible. She struggles with the math they do at school. (It's called Everyday Math, aka Chicago style math.) She can't do it and I can't explain it because I don't understand it. We're locked in to something tht doesn't work for her...

Lisa, thank you for starting this thread. I need to keep praying and examining the homeschooling option. This gave me a nudge.

[Lantern Light Mama]

I don't understand why people think VA is not homeschooling? It is not an all or nothing thing. :scratch Granted, we are not going to do 100%. Instead we are going to use a partnership program for curriculum , log our "hours" and I plan to supplement as much as I can with different activities. We aren't even* meeting with a teacher at all. Maybe it is just different in other states , where everything is planned for you down to the T? Do other places do that? I even get to "test" my kids at home (because it is state law, not because I want to, you just have to do it if you live here). Kids don't spend hours per day on the computer. They do their lessons and move on to other activities just like other homeschoolers. We were even able to custom pick our levels for DS. Personally, this is our very first year of homeschooling and I feel kind of lost. I researched so many curriculum's, only not to find what my son needs. Nobody will be breathing down our neck telling us what to do or how to do it. Maybe it is just different in other places, but I'm kind of bugged by the idea that it is "not" homeschooling. Where does that line of thinking come from?

[KatieMae]

I don't understand why people think VA is not homeschooling? It is not an all or nothing thing. :scratch Granted, we are not going to do 100%. Instead we are going to use a partnership program for curriculum , log our "hours" and I plan to supplement as much as I can with different activities. We aren't even* meeting with a teacher at all. Maybe it is just different in other states , where everything is planned for you down to the T? Do other places do that? I even get to "test" my kids at home (because it is state law, not because I want to, you just have to do it if you live here). Kids don't spend hours per day on the computer. They do their lessons and move on to other activities just like other homeschoolers. We were even able to custom pick our levels for DS. Personally, this is our very first year of homeschooling and I feel kind of lost. I researched so many curriculum's, only not to find what my son needs. Nobody will be breathing down our neck telling us what to do or how to do it. Maybe it is just different in other places, but I'm kind of bugged by the idea that it is "not" homeschooling. Where does that line of thinking come from?

Yes, it's quite different in Georgia. It's the VA itself that says "You are NOT homeschooling. We are a public charter school." They were very clear about that at the info session we attended. The kids do spend a lot of time on the computer, they do have weekly communication with a ps teacher (email or phone), they do have their own social activities among the families, and the children are required to do the annual tests just like kids in ps (they have to go to a library for proctored testing sessions), as the VA has to show annual yearly progress, just like any local school would.

[Lantern Light Mama]

The south is in a league of its own. :( We do have to "communicate" with a teacher but an email isn't hard. But here it is presented as a homeschooling option and not as public school at home. It seems like they approach it with different philosophies. Another school district here seems like it is going to be doing more of a deal like what you are talking about. It probably varies with grade levels too I guess.

[Mamaka]

I don't understand why people think VA is not homeschooling? It is not an all or nothing thing. :scratch Granted, we are not going to do 100%. Instead we are going to use a partnership program for curriculum , log our "hours" and I plan to supplement as much as I can with different activities. We aren't even* meeting with a teacher at all. Maybe it is just different in other states , where everything is planned for you down to the T? Do other places do that? I even get to "test" my kids at home (because it is state law, not because I want to, you just have to do it if you live here). Kids don't spend hours per day on the computer. They do their lessons and move on to other activities just like other homeschoolers. We were even able to custom pick our levels for DS. Personally, this is our very first year of homeschooling and I feel kind of lost. I researched so many curriculum's, only not to find what my son needs. Nobody will be breathing down our neck telling us what to do or how to do it. Maybe it is just different in other places, but I'm kind of bugged by the idea that it is "not" homeschooling. Where does that line of thinking come from?


It depends on the VA, honestly. In WA the public school VA also supports hs'ers which, from what I understand, is a bit unusual for a public school VA (i.e. homeschoolers can take classes through the public school VA but do not have to be fulltime VA students). Basically though, those of us in the VA try to be really clear that we are "public schooling at home" because there is a distinction in legal terms between VA school children and hs'ing children. Kids who are full time in the public school VA have to meet state requirements such as state testing, hours/days in school, number of hours in certain subjects, weekly contact w/a certified teacher (easy) and certain classes (as do hs students in WA, there is just a lot more documentation required in the VA). We pt homeschool, pt VA and we've found it to be very comfortable and easy fit for our oldest ds.

Afa WA state potentially losing our VAs, I don't see that happening in the near future. We've managed to fight back the legislation and even got one bill rewritten so it will be more protective of VAs, at least for the next few years. I think the union will fight the VAs as more and more families make the choice to use them or to homeschool. It threatens the unions and their anti-choice in education stance. But WA VA families have formed a very outspoken coalition to protect this particular educational choice and I think that will make it very difficult for the union to get their way.


ETA: if you have questions about the public school VA here in WA, feel free to pm me :)

[Lantern Light Mama]

Do you think it has to do with the enrollment percentage? I like that we have an option here.

[AmyDoll]

My husband works for k12. There are a couple counties in Virginia that use K12 & there's not really an issue.
We've gone back & forth with using it for Sam - I'm leaning towards not or buying pieces (like art & science)

[Laurlor]

To answer your original ?, I'm part of the VA in S. CA and in my experience there isn't any hostility from local schools or teachers. I have many friends who are public school teachers (not to mention my dad and brother), and I think they all are very happy that I'm part of the program and impressed by everything they've heard. In fact, other than our local home school convention (CHEA), I've never heard anything negative about the VA other than countless times here on GCM. I'm part of a Christian homeschool group even that has never questioned my involvement in the VA and treat me as any other homeschooler, because I think most of us are not homeschooling due to an educational philosophy, more because of the relationship we want to build with our children. And LisaM, thank you for saying that you believe it's an important alternative because I probably wouldn't be homeschooling if it weren't for it, and my family is SO blessed that we have been able to be at home together because of it.

[tempus vernum]

The first thing I did was check your location and make sure something wasn't going on here that I didn't know about. I just signed DS up for one of these to get the free curriculum for him. It seems like your state is kinda shady on the homeschooling front.


Hmm. . . . I don't agree with this being in WI. But maybe I am not understanding what you mean :scratch HSing in WI is easy, legal and we have our own HS organization for the state that helps out :grin We have lots of HSers and I am often bumping into HSers. We do quite a bit outside the home and most people have positive HSing stories. It's the exception to the rule that someone is hostile about homeschooling :shrug Even my relatives who are union teachers are accepting of me HSing. . . I might even say "supportive". They've been great with resources, ideas and thoughts for me while understanding that I am not "sit down and do school" but more of an unschooler..

AFA the VA, it actually is really interesting to me. It bothers me that it's so "big business" :td This should be about what's best for the child not about padding the union's pockets :( I want those choices for my children as they get older. My dd is wanting a lot more structure this year and while I wouldn't go with VA yet, I want that choice when they are in High School if that is what they choose. It's very unfortunate that Rose Fernandez lost the state superintendant position :td

[Peaceful Meadows]

The teacher's union hates VAs, charters, parochial schools, and HSing. Anything that could possibly indicate that a child can be educated for less than $8,000 per year under union teachers.

Sadly, the teachers unions are why the PS system is failing. I was watching an old documentary on the failing of public schools in the US and the teachers unions are fighting against anything that may better the school system. They seem to be anti any thing that will better the public school system for some reason. It all puzzles me. :yes2 :/ Let me see if I can find the link.

Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fteacherrevised.org%2F2009%2F05%2 F30%2Fthe-case-against-homeschooling%2F&feature=player_embedded). Watch it because it's very interesting, telling, and sad. :yes2

(edited for clarity...I hope! :giggle)

[Soliloquy]

SonshineMama, yes, individual teachers can be very suppotive if the VA and of HSing, I was when I was a PS teacher. I guarantee that if you sat in a union mtg that was discussing their political goals for the next election, you'd hear a vastly different story. Individual teachers cannot make a difference in the legalities of HSing or VAs because they don't have the millions of dollars to give that the union does. A teacher who speaks out against the union gets blackballed. All of a sudden her students can't get special services, her aide that is supposed to be covering her for her lunch break can't be found, things like that. I wish I was making it up but I saw it as a student teacher in MPS and I have friends in MPS who learned to keep their opinionbs to themselves really fast. You don't dare pull into the parking lot w/ a bumper sticker for the Republican gubanatorial candidate on your car, things like that.

In the suburbs it's more subtle but their union dues all work toward the same goal and it is anti HSing and anti VA.

Someone asked about why some don't consider VAs homeschooling. I do, personally, but there's a long thread in this forum where the issue is discussed. It's locked now but you can start another one if you want.

[tempus vernum]

SonshineMama, yes, individual teachers can be very suppotive if the VA and of HSing, I was when I was a PS teacher. I guarantee that if you sat in a union mtg that was discussing their political goals for the next election, you'd hear a vastly different story. Individual teachers cannot make a difference in the legalities of HSing or VAs because they don't have the millions of dollars to give that the union does. A teacher who speaks out against the union gets blackballed. All of a sudden her students can't get special services, her aide that is supposed to be covering her for her lunch break can't be found, things like that. I wish I was making it up but I saw it as a student teacher in MPS and I have friends in MPS who learned to keep their opinionbs to themselves really fast. You don't dare pull into the parking lot w/ a bumper sticker for the Republican gubanatorial candidate on your car, things like that.



Oh, yes I agree with all you have said about unions :yes2 . . . it's a sad state our state is in. I was just confused about what JustSheMayFly said about "homeschooling being shady" ??? and providing info that said *some* do support and that homeschooling isn't like that here.

I see this in my teacher union relatives. . .that they are careful to not say much about my homeschooling. I used to think they weren't supportive but now I realized they are just tight lipped cuz of the terrible politics they have to put up with :( They actually are more supportive or at least accepting. I hate that the unions are trying to shut down hsing and va's. I don't know what I think about VA's except that I know I want that option when my kids get older in case they want it, kwim?

And quite frankly, after my terrible brush with the public school system, I absolutely think they are anti homeschooling. :td I felt it as you know when I came home and was so upset :blush

[Soliloquy]

Gotcha. :wink

It's age 6, right, when I have to fill out that form? Wonder what happens if I don't do it? :shifty

[Lantern Light Mama]

They wouldn't know unless someone reported you though , right? All of this is so confusing. :doh

[tempus vernum]

Gotcha. :wink

It's age 6, right, when I have to fill out that form? Wonder what happens if I don't do it? :shifty


:yes Yes, the FALL after they turn six. Kindergarten is optional in WI. I know several people who don't file until their children need work permits and have to "register" for them. And if you don't file and get busted, you just say "oops" and mail it out. I've heard it's very low key. BUt. . . . .

I feel we have way too much outside involvement in our lives to not file *shrug* (speech, oncology, etc). I also have become paranoid because my cousin who is a defense attorney in one of the southern counties (the one I am doing childcare for) said truancy is a big deal in the SE WI area at the moment. . . a hot button issue to so speak and the patty wagons have been out a lot this past school year :shrug . So I have actually tucked my papers in my purse and carry them with me. I can show them to you next time I see you. You actually don't even have to put names down - just sex . . you don't even have to put down a grade



They wouldn't know unless someone reported you though , right? All of this is so confusing. :doh


Or if a truancy officer caught your child out -- see above comment about paddy wagons :shifty I've heard . . . true or false. . .that they get the kid and ask questions later! They would give you your child back pretty quickly -- not sure they'd even keep them overnight or what happens if they get rounded up in the paddy wagon and are hs'ed?? I think the only "repercussion" is being required to report but in the meantime you would open yourself up to CPS investigation.

For the truancy officer catching them out and about, I believe it's mostly an issue when they are 9+ . . .tweens and teens. :think

[KatieMae]

So I have actually tucked my papers in my purse and carry them with me.


I think this is a very prudent thing to do. Even though I know we're hs'ing legally, if I needed to prove it, I'd rather have the papers in-hand at that moment than require follow-up or give anyone a reason for a home visit :yes2 I plan to keep a copy of our Declaration of Intent folded up in my diaper bag, and a second copy in DH's car, in case he's ever out with just one or two of them.

[jenny_islander]

I don't think the local school district cares how HSers educate their kids as long as they can pass the standardized tests starting in third grade. Some people enroll in the local school district, others in the IDEA program which is the HS program of a school district on the mainland, and some go it alone.

[Soliloquy]

I do plan to file the papers but I am toying with attaching a copy of the Dec of Independance for them to read--for the first time, probably.

If it didn't involve my kids, I might be tempted to test the constitutionality of requiring me to tell the state that I'm HSing. After all, the new Supreme Justice nominee is all about empathy, right? :rolleyes

I'm very thankful we don't have to do standardized testing. I think I would fight that.

[Lantern Light Mama]

Lisa,

It is a huge concern for me. My son just will not test well, but supposedly we keep the test or our VA gets them. Not sure which yet.

[tempus vernum]

I do plan to file the papers but I am toying with attaching a copy of the Dec of Independance for them to read--for the first time, probably.

If it didn't involve my kids, I might be tempted to test the constitutionality of requiring me to tell the state that I'm HSing. After all, the new Supreme Justice nominee is all about empathy, right? :rolleyes

I'm very thankful we don't have to do standardized testing. I think I would fight that.


Yeah, exactly. although I don't think I'd fight testing. I think I'd try to move to a different place :hiding

[Peaceful Meadows]

I wish that we could move to a different state that doesn't require testing of homeschoolers. At least we don't need to test each year but still no tests would be wonderful! I am anti testing.

[Lantern Light Mama]

In Texas there was no testing. :(

[Soliloquy]

Do you have to turn the tests in? If yes, what happens woth the scores?

If low scores won't hinder your ability to keep HSing, you could put the tests on the table and tell your kids, "the state sent these to us. They're kind of silly but you're welcome to take a llok at them if you want.". And send in whatever happens, even if they're blank.

If the scores could mean you might not be able to HS anymore, :mad then that's rough. :(

[Lantern Light Mama]

LisaM,

From what I understand and was told, if your child doesn't do very well on testing then all you have to do is show that you have tried to remedy the problem. I don't think they can tell a person that they can't homeschool anymore unless they could prove a parents was negligent. In Wa state, a parent is allowed to test their child and then retain their scores in their personal records. If you VA then the VA will get the test results. Either way, unless a parent is truly uncaring about their child's education I don't see how testing would be a huge issue. The testing thing completely freaked me out when we first got here but the more I have learned about the the more I see that it isn't as one size fits all as it seems. Some kids will take the state test yearly, while other HS parents will opt for different types of test.

[cindergretta]

Yes, you test here and the results are for you alone to meet the state law. With the VA, you give them the result, but it in no way affects your ability to homeschool. If you choose to not test, you can do an evaluation. You can have a teacher talk with your child and evaluate their progress. In either case, the state is simply looking for "forward movement."

I realize this is against a lot of peoples' beliefs here, but I have no problem with this requirement b/c it is more apt to weed out people who choose to homeschool out of apathy. IOW, people who file a DOI and then "check out." Just like some people don't vax and do well child visits b/c they just can't be bothered, or are being negligent or lazy, some will opt to hs for he same reason.

Families that choose to not vax or do WCC or hs b/c of their beliefs and research are one thing. But there are folks out there who don't care and are just looking for an "easy out." I have a real problem with that. OTOH, I have no issue whatsoever with families who make these choices deliberately for the best interest of their child. There is a difference and an important one at that, IMO.

[CelticJourney]

From what I can see, they are just getting started officially here in South Carolina.

But here it is presented as a homeschooling option and not as public school at home. It seems like they approach it with different philosophies.And that is the core issue for those of us who 'homeschool' - what we are concerned about is the public school system defining what is homeschooling and then using that against us to inch by inch involve themselves in how we educate our children. I think Virtual Academies are fine and a great option for some families - I just don't support calling them homeschooling because it does have a consequence for my family

[jenny_islander]

:think Interesting. I didn't quite understand what a virtual academy was, but it sounds a lot like the old state-run homeschooling curriculum that used to be used all over Alaska! Now there are many more options for Alaska HSers. I think they still offer it for people who feel more comfortable using it, but I don't know anybody who currently does. My neighbor just down the hill, who used to live on a remote homestead, HSed her daughters for 8 years with it and then they came to town to stay with friends for high school. So I guess our state isn't just VA-friendly, it used to be VA-only!

[Soliloquy]

:scratch. I have a really hard time believeing there is more than a miniscule number of families who homeschool out of apathy. If a parent has checked out of their children's lives, the easy out is to enroll them in PS. Even really good parents look forward to the end of vacation "And mom and dad can hardly wait for school to start again! It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas ... ". When I was litle, 4K was 3 mornings a week and 5K was 5 half-days. Now, most schools around here offer full-day 4K and 5K and some are offering 3k! They do it because of parental demand. Parents need/want someone to take their kids for 35 hours a week. And, as a former PS teacher, the idea of the state stepping in if a child tests low is just :roll because I had many, many middle students (reg ed) come to my classroom who couldn't add 5 plus 3 w/o using their finger, they read at a 2nd grade level. They had been educated by the state. Who steps in when the state fails? No one, because it's never the fault of the PS system, it's culture or whatever. So, IMO, the state doesn't/shouldn't have the authority to make sure HS parents are meeting standards. The state doesn't come close to doing that with every child and there is no consequence. In addition, who is to say that a child needs to master multiplication tables by 3rd grade or diagram a sentence by 6th grade? The gov't gets to determine what MY children should be able to do by certain ages???? I don't think so. :no2. The state has had this unconstitutional authority for so long that it's accepted as just and right and it is just not.

Vaccines are a bit off topic but again, I see now reason why the state should have the authority to inject toxins into a healthy child. Not vaxing, even if you've done zero research, is not negligent. Not taking a child with a broken arm to a professional to have it set is negligent, but healthy children do not need western medicine, they just don't. The vast majority of parents who vax do not do research. I find that far more negligent than skippiong well-child checks and vaxes. "First, do no harm.". My parents didn't go to umpteen well-child checks. I take my kids to most of the well-child checks out of fear of the state if a witch hunt was started against non-vaxers, not because I think they're important. End of :soapbox

[tempus vernum]

:scratch. I have a really hard time believeing there is more than a miniscule number of families who homeschool out of apathy. If a parent has checked out of their children's lives, the easy out is to enroll them in PS. Even really good parents look forward to the end of vacation "And mom and dad can hardly wait for school to start again! It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas ... ". When I was litle, 4K was 3 mornings a week and 5K was 5 half-days. Now, most schools around here offer full-day 4K and 5K and some are offering 3k! They do it because of parental demand. Parents need/want someone to take their kids for 35 hours a week. And, as a former PS teacher, the idea of the state stepping in if a child tests low is just :roll because I had many, many middle students (reg ed) come to my classroom who couldn't add 5 plus 3 w/o using their finger, they read at a 2nd grade level. They had been educated by the state. Who steps in when the state fails? No one, because it's never the fault of the PS system, it's culture or whatever. So, IMO, the state doesn't/shouldn't have the authority to make sure HS parents are meeting standards. The state doesn't come close to doing that with every child and there is no consequence. In addition, who is to say that a child needs to master multiplication tables by 3rd grade or diagram a sentence by 6th grade? The gov't gets to determine what MY children should be able to do by certain ages???? I don't think so. :no2. The state has had this unconstitutional authority for so long that it's accepted as just and right and it is just not.


This is what makes me :nails because a lot of authorities don't look at it that way :nails They look at it that an apathetic parent can sit around being lazy while their children run amuck. . . how do I know? I was told this . . . . by someone who wanted to know if we get tested, if we have regulations, how do we know that people are doing enough, etc etc etc. :shrug

Unfortunately, the VAST amount of HS parents that the authorities get involved with are being apathetic. If the system works the way it should, CPS gets called, false claims tossed and only the real problems end up in court. So, court officials see HS'd families only when they get to the point of court. Some start off with CPS cuz of drugs, alcohol or abuse, and then when asked about their child's schooling claim "we are homeschooling" and that is how homeschooling gets a bad name. My cousin insists that the reason I don't realize all the apathetic homeschoolers is because they don't join HS groups or talk about it. . . they do nothing :( If we have another homeschooling discussion in the future, I may bring up the idea of . . . . apathy usually means send your child to school and let someone else take care of your child. :think

Vaccines. . . *sigh* yes, they shouldn't have any right to have our children injected with stuff :( thankfully we can still waiver at the moment. :sigh

[CelticJourney]

Unfortunately, the VAST amount of HS parents that the authorities get involved with are being apathetic. If the system works the way it should, CPS gets called, false claims tossed and only the real problems end up in court. So, court officials see HS'd families only when they get to the point of court. Some start off with CPS cuz of drugs, alcohol or abuse, and then when asked about their child's schooling claim "we are homeschooling" and that is how homeschooling gets a bad name. My cousin insists that the reason I don't realize all the apathetic homeschoolers is because they don't join HS groups or talk about it. . . they do nothing If we have another homeschooling discussion in the future, I may bring up the idea of . . . . apathy usually means send your child to school and let someone else take care of your child. See that dynamic frustrates me. What I tell people when confronted with this bias is 'those families are not homeschooling - they say they are homeschooling, but are using our freedoms for their own purposes. They are not 'homeschooling families' they are families who negelect their children and hide behind the label of homeschool to get away with it.'

[tempus vernum]

Unfortunately, the VAST amount of HS parents that the authorities get involved with are being apathetic. If the system works the way it should, CPS gets called, false claims tossed and only the real problems end up in court. So, court officials see HS'd families only when they get to the point of court. Some start off with CPS cuz of drugs, alcohol or abuse, and then when asked about their child's schooling claim "we are homeschooling" and that is how homeschooling gets a bad name. My cousin insists that the reason I don't realize all the apathetic homeschoolers is because they don't join HS groups or talk about it. . . they do nothing If we have another homeschooling discussion in the future, I may bring up the idea of . . . . apathy usually means send your child to school and let someone else take care of your child. See that dynamic frustrates me. What I tell people when confronted with this bias is 'those families are not homeschooling - they say they are homeschooling, but are using our freedoms for their own purposes. They are not 'homeschooling families' they are families who negelect their children and hide behind the label of homeschool to get away with it.'



yes very frustrating - great answer :yes2

[phathui5]

In MD, they did a trial year with Connections Academy. It went really well for the kids enrolled, and they decided not to continue. Now there are no virtual academies here.

I have a really hard time believeing there is more than a miniscule number of families who homeschool out of apathy. If a parent has checked out of their children's lives, the easy out is to enroll them in PS.

I agree completely. I can't say I've ever known an uninvolved homeschooling parent. And the uninvolved parents in our neighborhood send their kids to the public school and then complain about how the kids aren't learning.

[ArmsOfLove]

Homeschoolers are not apathetic

Negligent parents, especially when addictions and/or abuse are factors, will use whatever excuse they can grab onto to justify their lack of healthy choices.

The number of neglected and abused children in public schools is staggering. That some go so far as to not bother to send them is not surprising.

_______

I was so :mad the other day when they had a commercial for our local K12 talking about how Edison did not do well in school so his mother pulled him out and "schooled him at home" . . . now you can too with K12 :doh Edison's mom did not use VA with her son :rolleyes

[Soliloquy]

When I was a PS teacher, I saw many neglected children whose only meals were the free ones at school. They were diry, smelly, and never had a parent come to conferences let alone return phone calls. Is that the fault of public schools? And, what did the state do when we called CPS? Nothing. And what did the state do when we had 13 yo kids who couldn't read? Were the public schools held accountable? No.

It's the same when people say, "homeschooled children have socialization problems.". Um, kids in public school have socialization problems, too, plenty of them. If the family has issues, the children will absorb some of that regardless of whether they go to school or not.

[cindergretta]

:/ Ok, this has gone off on a tangent based on something I said, I think.

I never said hs'ing was responsible for neglected kids. I am saying that I have seen hs'ing used as an "excuse" for total apathy toward children in a family. B/c of my *personal experience* I am for some minimal supervision. :shrug No one else has to agree with me. But sheesh, I also don't like (or appreciate) my experience being totally discounted and brushed off. :/

Families in crisis are families in crisis- public or home school.

I see this issue very differently from others here. That is absolutely OK with me. But my opinions and my thoughts and my ideas are valid and I am entitled to them. And they are based on, as I said earlier, *my* experiences. :) And thus not subject to someone else's expereinces. :)

Honestly, this is one of many issues here at GCM that I can't seem to understand at all. :sigh I'd spin off, but I don't even know where to start. :( :sadno

[ArmsOfLove]

what issue? :scratch homeschoolers not wanting government supervision?

[tempus vernum]

:/ Ok, this has gone off on a tangent based on something I said, I think.

I never said hs'ing was responsible for neglected kids. I am saying that I have seen hs'ing used as an "excuse" for total apathy toward children in a family. B/c of my *personal experience* I am for some minimal supervision. :shrug No one else has to agree with me. But sheesh, I also don't like (or appreciate) my experience being totally discounted and brushed off. :/


Actually, I think it's what I said. . . . I am the one that said my cousin has dealt with families who say they homeschool to avoid truancy. (She is a defense attorney for children and family services in a county in our area)

I actually agree with you K. I agree there are homeschoolers that are apathetic. I just don't like the blanket assumption that a lot of people are hsing to avoid truancy that exists in the defense attorney's offices of many large cities. I am anxious to share the thoughts I've gleaned from this thread with my cousin :shifty As I get closer to her, we are having all sorts of interesting discussions and I respect her opinion :mrgreen especially since she's been VERY supportive of my homeschooling . It's been in the "theory" discussions that she's thrown issues of controversy at me ;) I am happily discussing them as her firstborn is only 2 months old so she may be working this out for herself :shrug3


Families in crisis are families in crisis- public or home school.



:yes2 I fully agree with this. This is why I am not a supporter of additional regulations on HSers. I think it would be a waste of time because it's addressing the end result and not the issue. I am a supporter of brainstorming ideas to help struggling families solve their problems and implementing new plans. I have been totally unimpressed with the current system when we had a brush with it as a family that was struggling :( . Schooling mentorship and accountability should be an point of consideration whatever schooling method they choose :shrug

[ArmsOfLove]

I agree, Jodi :)

educational oversight can't be the solution to parental neglect. We've had lots of dialogues about this in the past and the general consensus among most teachers seems to be that neglected children can't excel in school no matter what the method. At that point setting "educational oversight" on homeschoolers becomes a way to circumvent privacy laws in order to gain entry into a home to make sure children aren't neglected *via* homeschooling. This violates rights.

[Soliloquy]

Cindergretta, I'm trying to understand what you're upset about. In your initial post, iirc you wrote you don't mind minimal gov't oversight to weed out parents who HS out of apathy. You wrote nothing of personal experience so how could anyone be discounting your personal experience? :scratch. I responded with why I want no gov't oversight in my family and also stated a few of my experiences as a PS teacher where plenty of kids had apathetic parents and the school system failed them according to the state's own standards yet there was no accountability. I don't see how that is discounting your opinion, just explaining my own.

Then more tangents came in that were probably spurred by that discussion but that's not a reflection of how we feel about your opinion, either. I'm at a loss as to what I could've written that would've helped you to feel welcome to express your views. You are VERY welcome to express your views on this topic--I can't say I agree with them because I don't--so what else could I write? :hug (I'd really, really like to know! :) )

I started this thread because I had no idea that some states had friendly relations between VAs and PS-districts. I support VAs fully! If my tax dollars (which I just paid--soooo much money :sigh) are going to PS I want the PS-system to give the parents more control and choices, I believe the gov't should serve us, not the other way around. VA isn't right for us (very, very structured) but I think it's a great option for others.

[tempus vernum]

((((((Kristy)))))))) I forgot to offer hugs to you ;)

Lisa, I too support VA's. I want them there for high school option for my kids if they want it. ALyssa told me yesterday that she wants to do school on the computer when she's "older" and I said "I am not sure what you mean" and she said "college" :phew but I KNOW that she may end up wanting VA and I may be in a pickle in our state by then. . . it's so hostile I tend to think they'll have gone by the wayside . . . .