If you don't have/use a crib with your toddler...

[Blue-EyedLady]

... how do you get your kid to sleep?

I'm really interested in collecting a bunch of tools here that will be useful for others, but in case you're wondering why I'm asking, here's our situation:

Right now, the only ways I can get my 14 MO DS to go to sleep is "trick" him into relaxing, usually by nursing him down, or going for a drive. Lately, he won't nurse down, so I only have the driving option which works for naptime, but not bedtime. My mom (we live with her) bought us a Pack & Play, and says we should use it. I'm afraid he'll climb out or knock it over trying to climb out. Also, I'm pretty sure he'll scream and cry if I leave him alone in the room in a "cage." I can't leave him in the bedroom awake by himself, as it's not childproof (I can't do anything about that :no2), and he'd just cry and cry if I did. (we're anti-CIO) For bedtime, I go to bed and he plays on the bed until he finally falls asleep. DH sleeps on a mattress on the floor so that he's not disturbed by DS playing. Right now, DS gets less sleep than I do, which isn't nearly enough to meet his needs. He's chronically overtired and cranky.

So what's your BTDT method for getting your toddler to sleep without a cage or crying?

[Calliope]

:think What are his naps like? Do you have a bedtime routine?

[klpmommy]

every one of my kids has gone through a stage where i had to drive them to sleep. thankfully none of it was during the crazy high gas prices last summer. :phew S is doing it sometimes now. just too much to *do* to sleep!!

other than that, i lay down with them, or i bounce S on the exercise ball. sometimes a video works.

[katiekind]

When mine were little (that age) I would nurse them to sleep in our bed. My oldest one sometimes would take a really long time to fall asleep so I'd wind up nursing him and singing soft lullabyes to him, and nursing him some more.

Occasionally I'd be the one to fall asleep, and he'd go toddling back out to daddy. The last thing I'd hear before slipping into complete sleep was my husband chuckling and saying to the toddler, "Oh good, you finally got Mommy nursed off to sleep, huh?" :giggle

[Blue-EyedLady]

:think What are his naps like? Do you have a bedtime routine?


Naps are inconsistent - they happen whenever we go someplace in the car. I haven't been able to get him to nap at home for weeks now. It doesn't help that my life is insanely busy right now, and there's nothing I can do about that. :shrug

Bedtime routine is pretty consistent. We get dressed for bed, then he nurses while Mama and Daddy say bedtime prayers. Then Daddy dims the lights, turns on quiet music and says goodnight. He'll nurse till he's full, then play while I sleep. Typically by the time Daddy comes to bed, DS is asleep. So far, he hasn't decided to get out of bed to go find Daddy - he likes me better right now!

[Blue-EyedLady]

every one of my kids has gone through a stage where i had to drive them to sleep. thankfully none of it was during the crazy high gas prices last summer. :phew S is doing it sometimes now. just too much to *do* to sleep!!

other than that, i lay down with them, or i bounce S on the exercise ball. sometimes a video works.


How does bouncing or a video "work?" Those both sound pretty stimulating to me - not sleep inducing. :scratch

[klpmommy]

I hold S in my arms & bounce on the ball, it works kind of like rocking. As for the video, it makes two of my three (P&S) sit still long enough to fall asleep. E gets bored & leaves. With P we watched things like Baby Einstein on "loop" and he would fall asleep w/o fail.

[StrangeTraveller]

I don't see nursing as tricking him into relaxing :no My 2.5 y/o still really appreciates "nummies" to help him calm down. Just now, we can nurse for 5 min (and I tell him 5 min and remind him in intervals counting down), then finish going to sleep by cuddling. :shrug I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's hard enough for me to just go to sleep when I lay down, and I have 20+ years of practicing the discipline of laying there until I do so.

[StrangeTraveller]

Naps are inconsistent - they happen whenever we go someplace in the car. I haven't been able to get him to nap at home for weeks now. It doesn't help that my life is insanely busy right now, and there's nothing I can do about that.


just saw this :hugheart babies form habits...he is probably used to being in the car when he gets sleepy, so that is why naptime occurs then. I personally wouldn't see it as a problem, especially if that is just how your busy routine is. btdt :hug But, napping at home is naturally going to be more difficult without a routine. The best thing I ever did was start nursing and cuddling Fuzzy down at one every day.

[deena]

breastfeeding. :tu

[AmyDoll]

I rocked Nicholas & snuggled him to sleep. Or shhhh'd and patted him.

[klpmommy]

I missed that, most of the time nursing S down works. I just have back ups for when it doesn't. Which was happening more often when my milk was moslty dry when preg. but even now if nursing her gets interrupted (usually by P or E) then I go to one of my back ups.

I nursed E down until she was 22 m/o, then I laid down with her for another year & a half. She is the *best* sleeper in the house at the moment. She lays down when it is time, relaxes & falls asleep. I am just praying that will hold true for S, too.

[TuneMyHeart]

I nursed Ellie in our bed, and was pretty much stuck there the rest of the night. ;) She would wake up when I left, so I watched a lot of TV. :lol She eventually grew out of needing me there constantly. :phew

If I couldn't get her to settle down with nursing, I put her on my back in our ergo and vacuumed. Our floors were very clean for a while!

[Rabbit]

I hold mine still in our big bed. We've developed a routine over time, of reading followed by praying followed by a homemade lullabye. And if they can't just lay still and sleep, then I hold them still, and hush them.

[Raspberries]

I just lay down with her until she falls asleep. When she was nursing, she would nurse and then fall asleep. Sometimes that meant I would be laying there with her for 45 min other times 10.

[Weezie]

dh rocks beansbeans. Absolute likes to "play" in her bed until she's sleepy. She was rockes until she told us she didn't want to rock anymore. :heart

[April G]

Because I wasn't working when my son was that age and didn't have a set schedule where I had to be up and out of the house at a particular time, we didn't have a set bedtime. DS and I were naturally on the same sleep schedule, and we were generally ready to go to sleep at the same time. I would take ds to bed with me and nurse him to sleep at bedtime and naps. If I wasn't tired enough to take a nap during the day I would wait till he was really out and sneak out. I had a bed guard rail so he couldn't roll off the bed when I left. Sometimes I did this at night too, as obviously I don't need as much sleep as a toddler, but usually we weren't going to bed till late, so bedtime was easier for me to fall asleep too.

[BlessedBlue]

When EBug was tiny, I read a blurb by Dr. Sears (and I have no idea where, too much brain fog from then, Fussy Baby Book, or on-line article on High Needs Babies) that said that you needed to match the child's energy level in order to be able to gradually bring it down so they could go to sleep. You know how high-energy EBug is! That meant that I held her on my lap while I bounced while sitting on the bed. I bounced a lot! It took about 20 minutes of solid vigorous bouncing (enough to make the mattress squeak - at a rate of about 80 - 120 x a minute) every single night to calm her down enough to nurse to sleep. We did this pretty much up until ABoo was born. Thank goodness that she started to transition to a saner routine at about that time! :phew

ABoo needed to be rocked - until he got used to the idea of the bedtime routine not needing rocking. He still takes 20 minutes of me being with him before he drifts off. No more nursing, though. Oh, and he needed something tactile to touch - usually my eyebrows. I was the luckiest mom in the world for about a year, because I got an eyebrow massage every night! Even now, he strokes his stuffed cat's whiskers.

FWIW, Mom did do CIO with us. I remember clearly being distressed because she would leave you crying in the crib. So she's probably totally expecting you to do that when she mentions the pack n play.

On the other hand, does the pack n play even fit in your room? It wouldn't hurt to try putting your DS in the pack and play to play until he falls asleep and see what happens. That would contain him a bit, while not changing up the routine very much. (You would still stay in the room with him like you do now...) Some kids do well with that. :shrug

[Vicki_T]

I just lay down with her until she falls asleep. When she was nursing, she would nurse and then fall asleep. Sometimes that meant I would be laying there with her for 45 min other times 10.


:yes

[mishmom]

DD is 19 months old and I breastfeed and sling (long wrap) her to sleep almost every nap time and bed time. This is the ONLY way she has been able to go to sleep since she was about 4 or 5 months old. I sling & sing & nurse & walk until she's about 95% asleep (When she was smaller she would fall 100% asleep... but now no matter how long I sling she won't fall fully asleep until in bed.) Then I crawl into her bed (which is a twin bed with rails ...the top bed of a bunk bed set.... and is right next to our bed.) and gently unwrap and lower her into bed. We usually nurse for a couple more minutes and when she's 99% asleep she'll unlatch and roll away and usually she's 100% asleep within about 60 seconds of rolling away. The whole process ususally takes about 20-30 minutes.

We are just now starting to transition out of this (as in this week). There have been several times this week when I spent nearly two hours with her...trying to get her to sleep but she just could never get past 80% relaxed... The first night this happened I finally gave up and asked DH to come and relieve me. At first she "HATED" the idea of him and not me.... but he "reasoned" with her (which is something I simply do not have the knack for like he does!) and got her to calm down and she fell asleep in 30 minutes!

So now our routine is that if she can fall asleep like normal with mommy in 20 or 30 minutes, great. But if she's having problems then she gets to be a "big girl" and go to sleep with daddy! So this week she's gone to sleep with dad 3 times (which is the first time he's been able to get her to sleep since she was like 3 months old!!)

I think I've gone off topic a bit... you were asking about the pack and play...right? My main issue with the pack and play system is that if you are helping the child get to sleep... like I have needed to with the sling, it's impossible to get the child lowered in without completely waking them up... it's totally awkward!

[zak]

We nurse to sleep...
We bounce in a sling to sleep...
We pat/shhhh/sing to sleep...
We walk around in a sling to sleep...
We lay with and let them play to sleep...

Our kids are "cage free" and we have never left them to cry either. :tu :)

For R...now that he doesn't nurse... we read together and then he lays next to me until he falls asleep. :) :hearts

[jewelmcjem]

Fiona is 15 months, and still just goes to bed whenever she crashes. How do I transition her to bedtime? We did CIO with our other kids, and now I don't really have the tools to figure out how to get her into a bedtime w/o CIO. Normally, she hangs out with me, nursing off and on, toddling around, playing, lying on my lap as I am on the computer or watch tv and eventually around 10 or so crashes. I transfer her to the pack-n-play and get some stuff done and go to bed 11ish, taking her with me -- or dh and I have some alone time, then we go get her and bring her to bed. Lately tho, she has fought sleeping until we go to bed, and even then crawls around, nurses, crawls off the bed, talks, smacks the bed and me alternately (she's got great rhythm!), etc. 2 nights ago I actually had dh take her back to the P&P and let her CIO for 5 min, she went right off to sleep. :blush When she woke up a couple of hrs later I brought her to bed and she nursed right to sleep Tried it the next night, didn't happen, and I felt so horrible at how upset she got before I went to get her. Last night I went to bed early and dh brought her upstairs, she had fallen asleep on him.

Dh has been really good about trying this new idea -- no CIO, AP parenting, etc. -- after GKGW with our oldest, but he's starting to see the things that Ezzo "warns" about, the exhausted mama, the child who won't go to bed, holding the parents hostage. I don't know how to get her to bed any other way and the next time I am about to fall over tired I know he's going to suggest CIO.

[April G]

For what it's worth, there were lots of times that ds wasn't ready to go to sleep when I was REALLY ready... You can't force a child to sleep anymore than you can force them to eat, but you can create a sleep-friendly environment. The way I look at it, I don't go to sleep when I'm not tired, why should my child? If they are consistently not tired at night there's probably something at the root of that. Not enough physical activity during the day. The naps are too long. Food allergies causing discomfort (ds had eczema from allergies and it caused major bed time issues). Reflux. Teething. Diaper rash. All kinds of reasons a child could have difficulty to go to sleep and it's our job as parents to help them cope so they get good sleep... :heart

The ladies here have made some great suggestions... bouncing, rocking, massaging, quiet singing or music. DS' thing was for me to rub his hair. Even now at 5 years old, I can tell when he's getting sleepy cause he starts rubbing his hair. :giggle

[deena]

For what it's worth, there were lots of times that ds wasn't ready to go to sleep when I was REALLY ready... You can't force a child to sleep anymore than you can force them to eat, but you can create a sleep-friendly environment. The way I look at it, I don't go to sleep when I'm not tired, why should my child? If they are consistently not tired at night there's probably something at the root of that. Not enough physical activity during the day. The naps are too long. Food allergies causing discomfort (ds had eczema from allergies and it caused major bed time issues). Reflux. Teething. Diaper rash. All kinds of reasons a child could have difficulty to go to sleep and it's our job as parents to help them cope so they get good sleep... :heart

The ladies here have made some great suggestions... bouncing, rocking, massaging, quiet singing or music. DS' thing was for me to rub his hair. Even now at 5 years old, I can tell when he's getting sleepy cause he starts rubbing his hair. :giggle

:yes

[Wholly Mama]

And if they can't just lay still and sleep, then I hold them still, and hush them.

This is what worked well with my older daughter. I'd have to hold her tight to get her to calm down/relax enough to be able to nurse off to sleep.

Have you read the No-Cry Sleep Solution? There's lots of great ideas in there!

My 2 year old has been having a hard time recently going to sleep with me, so dh has started this great routine with her. He holds her standing in front of an open window with the lights off, whispering about all the things they see out the window. The cool air helps her calm down. They he closes the window and lays with her in the warm comfy bed. The warmth of daddy and the bed is what really helps her slip off into dreamland.

[rebecuna]

If they are consistently not tired at night there's probably something at the root of that.
Since you're saying your DC is chronically overtired I would guess that that's contributing to the problem... kids that age can often have a hard time going to sleep if they're overtired... it seems like there's a window where they're tired enough but not too tired, and if you miss that it's melt down time (so frustrating!!). Like others have suggested, I would try to get a consistent nap in there if you can since you know DC isn't getting enough sleep-- even if it means purposefully going for a drive after lunch every day or whatever. Sleep problems are my ALL-TIME biggest parenting frustrations... nothing drives me to my wits-end faster. :hug2 We went through several excruciating phases with DS that lasted weeks or months where I literally wanted to throw him out the window sometimes :blush I don't have a lot of advice... we tried what felt like EVERYTHING and eventually just endured it until the phase passed (which thankfully it always did!)

:pray4 for patience and wisdom for you!

[filmgirl2911]

:hugheart I don't have much to add to what has already been posted, but wanted to say that bouncing on the exercise ball has been a tried and true method for us until *I* decided to phase it out :yes While baby girl might occasionally bounce with daddy, she tended to *mostly* bounce with me (as a quick aside, she typically was upright with her head on my shoulder b/c she has always preferred to be upright, but sometimes, we held her in the cradle position). Sometimes, we might have to bounce for 30 or more minutes, and as she has gotten bigger (she just turned one recently), that has put a strain on me physically. So now we rock in the rocker. Either of these is ALWAYS preceded by nursing b/c I like to see if she will nurse to sleep :smile, if not, we get up and I explain to her that we are going to rock gently in the rocker. She will sometimes cry initially, but I hold her, rub her back and sing softly and "wait her out". She will eventually quiet and then fall asleep and I'll put her down.

We use this same technique for naps and bedtime (naps she tends to nurse to sleep more readily). In the past, we did slings for nap time, but I found as she got bigger, that she needed to be on the bed to stretch, roll, move while sleeping and she would sleep longer. As 30-minute naps had been the norm, trying new things, like nursing and lying on the bed with her and / or rocking her down, was a worthwhile experiment to see if she might sleep longer. I also try to get her down around the same time (within the same hour every day).

Other things we've done include walking her around the darkened room while singing or while talking softly telling her a story - this works if she is especially worked up and not quite ready to settle down.

I hope things get better soon! :heart

[Blue-EyedLady]

Rabbit - you said you hold your kids still to help them sleep. Do they wiggle and squirm a lot when you do that? DS fights me tooth and nail if I try to confine him AT ALL. He kicks off the blankets, kicks me, pushes me (usually right in the boob so it really hurts and I can't hold firm), or flips around so much I can't contain him. Am I just being a wimp, or is my kid unusual with the fighting?

(BTW - he's really strong, and I frequently find bruises on my body from these kinds of altercations...)

[mishmom]

Rabbit - you said you hold your kids still to help them sleep. Do they wiggle and squirm a lot when you do that? DS fights me tooth and nail if I try to confine him AT ALL. He kicks off the blankets, kicks me, pushes me (usually right in the boob so it really hurts and I can't hold firm), or flips around so much I can't contain him. Am I just being a wimp, or is my kid unusual with the fighting?

(BTW - he's really strong, and I frequently find bruises on my body from these kinds of altercations...)



Exactly the same story for us! I've found that for my dd the restraining (no matter how calm I am) is ALWAYS counter productive and makes dd less likely to sleep. She just won't stand for it! ( Blue-eyed lady... it sounds like your ds and my dd are very similar in regards to sleep... I remember another post ( 8 or 9 months ago) when I thought the sa

[Blue-EyedLady]

Rabbit - you said you hold your kids still to help them sleep. Do they wiggle and squirm a lot when you do that? DS fights me tooth and nail if I try to confine him AT ALL. He kicks off the blankets, kicks me, pushes me (usually right in the boob so it really hurts and I can't hold firm), or flips around so much I can't contain him. Am I just being a wimp, or is my kid unusual with the fighting?

(BTW - he's really strong, and I frequently find bruises on my body from these kinds of altercations...)



Exactly the same story for us! I've found that for my dd the restraining (no matter how calm I am) is ALWAYS counter productive and makes dd less likely to sleep. She just won't stand for it! ( Blue-eyed lady... it sounds like your ds and my dd are very similar in regards to sleep... I remember another post ( 8 or 9 months ago) when I thought the sa


Yeah - we've been struggling with sleep issues for a long time now! :yes2 Fortunately, I'm not working FT ATM, so that helps a lot. Of course, the down side of that is that we're broke, and living with my mom. :/

[jewelmcjem]

And if they can't just lay still and sleep, then I hold them still, and hush them.

This is what worked well with my older daughter. I'd have to hold her tight to get her to calm down/relax enough to be able to nurse off to sleep.


This works for dh, but for me she just wants to nurse.

[ValiantJoy07]

Honestly at the end of the day I don't have the energy to mess around. If DD is fighting going to sleep via nursing I try telling her that it IS time to sleep and I pull her down every time she tries to get up and offer the breast. If she flat out refues it, I take that as her way of saying "I'm not ready for bed yet". We go downstairs and play for a while and try again in 30 minutes. But we really haven't had any problem in this area for several months- since we realized her best bedtime is between 9- 9:30pm. By that time of the day she is sooo excited for bedtime...Daddy takes her up and gives her a bath, puts her in her PJ's and reads her her bedtime books.

Bedtime is a time of day that I am not willing to mess with, after the books are read and we start nursing you either nurse down to sleep or you go downstairs and hang out with Daddy and we'll start it all over again later. Especially now since being preggo I'm just too tired and unwilling to play games when it gets to that time of day. dd doesn't need much sleep, she never has, if she goes down before 9pm she is up for the day at 4am :doh. Going down at 9pm means she sleeps (sometimes through the night!) untill 5 and then in light sleep (sometimes needs to nurse every hour) untill 7-7:30 up for the day she naps for 1.5-2 hours during the day and as long as she doesn't nap too much she is a very happy person.

Oh and DD sleeps on a twin bed that is attached to our queen bed- she is sometimes and active sleeper and the twin bed keeps her from bouncing us too much. :heart

[Blue-EyedLady]

It's so interesting to see what everyone does with their DC - and how opposite things work for different families. Like one mama holds down the child to help them relax, but another mama can't do that at all. Another mama has to cuddle close to get their LO to sleep, and another needs a separate bed. :think You would think that one plan would work for all (or nearly all) families.

I have a copy of NCSS, but it's in storage somewhere right now. If I could get to it, I'd reread it! When I read it the first time, I realized that DS had reflux and allergies, and that's why he was sleeping so poorly. NCSS is helpful to break a kid's "habit" of poor sleeping, but of course doesn't deal with organic reasons why he's not sleeping.

ATM we're going through a horrible round of teething (2-year molars) that makes DS want to nurse constantly. I literally can't keep up enough milk for him right now, so then he gets upset at bedtime because he's tired, wants to nurse to sleep, but can't because there's no milk. :sadno Frustrating for both of us! I'm going to try willow bark tonight to see if that will help him.

DS likes to rock, but it's not sleep inducing for him. Neither is bouncing, rubbing his hair, massage, etc. He considers those things his personal invitation to participate back by hitting me, pulling my hair, etc. DH has been taking him for a drive at bedtime, which works as long as they don't stop driving. DS will wake up as soon as they get home, and will scream until I'm able to nurse him back to sleep. :sigh We really need another tool in our nighttime parenting toolbox, but I'm starting to think we've already tried all that there are!

[KatieMae]

Our kids are "cage free" and we have never left them to cry either. :tu :)

First, I love that :haha

Here's what we've done in the past:
* Lucas - not breastfed. He would drink a bottle of milk, laying in bed in a dark room beside DH or I. When the bottle was gone, we would cuddle him & tell him the same three memorized stories, usually twice through. After that we would just lay there & feign sleeping - regular, deep breathing, relaxed muscles which I think helped him learn how to fall asleep on his own.
* Lilia - breastfeeding only. I would nurse her on the couch & then put her into bed.
* Jude - breastfeeding, again on the couch & then put in bed, but he also has been my #1 sleeper as he learned to fall asleep on his own when he was about 17 mos old. This was me: :jawdrop I never expected that, but he will sometimes just lay down on a pillow on the couch & fall asleep, which is very handy when I'm out for an evening meeting at church & DH has him at home (being that DH's are naturally insufficient in lactation skills :P~ ) So, I don't know how you teach them to do that, but I was blessed with a child who figured it out! :heart

[H0nBun]

My mom (we live with her) bought us a Pack & Play, and says we should use it. I'm afraid he'll climb out or knock it over trying to climb out.

Definitely! Your fear is not irrational. I have heard horror stories about cribs tipping over and babies that learn to climb over crib bars at a very early age. :bheart

I would also recommend the book 'Boundaries' by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. James Townsend for tips on boundary setting with your mom if that is an issue. :hug2

My mother never used a crib with me or either of my 2 siblings (I'm the oldest of 3) and I think we all did just fine. Sure there were times when we were babies that we were fussy and/or had some trouble sleeping, but I can't imagine what it would have been like if instead she'd had to get up out of bed every time we started crying and run down the hall to another room. For that matter, I could not imagine having to get up out of bed and reach over a railing constantly in the middle of the night (even just in the same room). Instead, we just cuddled to sleep as a family. :heart :nocio

What my parents did is they got a king sized mattress and put it on the floor next to a twin sized mattress. My dad slept on the twin (so he didn't have to be disturbed by as much movement during the night) and my mom slept on the side of the king closest to him with the other side of the king pushed up against a wall. It worked quite well. In her words, it was much easier to just reach out her arm and we were right there.

If you must have a crib though, I highly recommend the Dr. Sears - Arms Reach Co-sleeper bed. A friend of mine has one with her 2 babies and really seems to have liked it (though I'm told even she hardly used it because most of the time they preferred to be close enough to cuddle to sleep anyway).

As for getting to sleep, I remember as we got a little older, our parents would sometimes play flashlight games with us in bed with the lights off (shadow puppets, or whatever else we came up with, creative, etc) or we would pretend we were riding an air bicycle which usually wore us out pretty quick.


:gcm :heart :cross :angel1

[curlymopmom]

Breastfeeding has always been my first attempt. If that doesn't work, dh usually takes over and holds him and walks (with a little song & a bounce) or rocks him. But after 12 months I DID end up having to wear ds more nights than not on my back to get him to sleep. Then I would move to the bed and nurse him for a bit before I could leave the bed. My dd always nursed to sleep until age 2... but I could never leave the bed! :giggle

Music has seemed to help. Do you happen to have a certain song/ CD you play in the car when he falls asleep? My kids had gotten used to falling asleep in the car a bit too (just due to schedule) and usually to a few of the same CDs. So I brought one inside and play it in the bedroom (with our white noise machine on :giggle) and it has helped GREATLY! I turn the music off once asleep - don't need it on all night, thankfully.