Spinoff: ROLL CALL Are you an unschooler? or a non unschooler?

[tempus vernum]

What a title :giggle

What I am asking is that everyone post and say "I am an unschooler" or I am a __________ schooler.

The thread illinoismommy started had me wondering as I have always felt unschooling is in the minority here at GCM :think must be perspective???

[tempus vernum]

Answering my own thread :doh

I am a relaxed homeschooler. TO some I am an unschooler but to many "radical unschoolers" I am NOT an unschooler.

But if I was FORCED to choose, I would call myself an unschooler :)

[Teribear]

I am an unschooler.

I believe I probably lean more the direction that Crystal does and am a "structured unschooler"

[Leslie]

It depends on what definition you mean by unschooling. If anybody who doesn't use a textbook, school-at-home model is an unschooler, then I fall into that category. If you mean the child-led, non-structured kind, then I don't.

I'm a Charlotte Mason homeschooler seeking to follow her model as closely as she outlined, which is pretty structured. But it's very different from a traditional classroom and uses no textbooks.

[SueQ]

I have no idea what I am! :giggle I am having an identity crisis! HELP!!! :laughtears

Seriously, I used to be a CM homeschooler but while I like a lot of what she says (not using text books but using living books, nature study, and such) I don't really fit as a CM homeschooler because I am less structured than she would be. I do like Mary Hood's writings but wouldn't fit in the unschooler mold either because I think that I am a bit more structured than an unschooler would be. I guess if one is choosing titles then I would be considered a relaxed homeschooler. :yes

[Iarwain]

Un. Definitely unschoolers. That is unless you are of the camp that defines unschooling as the parent never suggesting something to children or never setting rules and limits on certain things. Our educational approach is very definitely unschooled, delight-driven, and unstructured with the only exception being structure the child requests or sets up for themselves.

[Marmee]

I am an unschooler. You might also call me a VERY relaxed homeschooler. I aspire to more "unschoolishness" as time goes by. I sometimes feel a little uncomfortable with the labels, but for all practical purposes, we unschool.

[steffanie3]

I had the same thougth when I saw the other post, I thought most people on here were more school at home. I also am not really classified, but I seem to be leaning towards unschooling/ relaxed. Right now my oldest is 3 so we are totally unschooling :giggle

[Mamatoto]

I need further definitions to answer this question completely. :smile

[justTrish]

We are pretty relaxed homeschoolers.

[cindergretta]

I second the identity crisis! :giggle

We are very relaxed homeschoolers. I have OCD tendencies. When they are rearing, we use books/workbooks. When I am coping better, we chill out and move where the Spirit guides us! IOW, we go through phases. Brief school-at-home phases surrounded by long periods of living! :mrgreen

[Maggie]

Well, we're unschooling right now, but my oldest will be only 5 in two weeks. We do buy workbooks, but she likes them and only works on them when she feels like it. I imagine as she gets older, we'll be more relaxed homeschoolers than unschoolers. Not sure, though. I think I lean more closely to unschooling than DH does, but he's definitely not traditional either, so we agree on most things. :tu

Kristy, what does this mean: "When they are rearing..."? :scratch Thanks! :grin

[J3K]

I need to hold a school conference with the principal and decide what we do.


ie: I need to talk to myself in the bathroom mirror and find ourselves a label. :giggle


Honestly , we're a little bit of everything depending on the subject and the importance I assign to it.

[allisonintx]

I am what I am.

[PurpleButterfly]

I second the identity crisis! :giggle

We are very relaxed homeschoolers. I have OCD tendencies. When they are rearing, we use books/workbooks. When I am coping better, we chill out and move where the Spirit guides us! IOW, we go through phases. Brief school-at-home phases surrounded by long periods of living! :mrgreen


:yes Ditto! :grin


:nak

[Mamatoto]

I am what I am.

Excellent definition. :giggle

We have certain school at home characteristics now that I think deeper on this....such as we have a school room. But the school room doesn't have one thing that you would find in a public school classroom, I don't think. :mrgreen We more often live and breathe outside so that would be unschooling, I think. I don't use textbooks, workbooks, or curriculum, unless it is something that I give to dd to do whatever she wants with it if I see she is interested in something like maps and that has only happened once. I do use many many books based on child development and temperaments to decide what we are doing in a certain year, and use some guides to figure out what books or stories are age appropriate for the developmental season that we are in. We are in a nutshell the Peaceful Starts Outdoor Homeschool and don't really fit any other definition, I guess. :think

[cindergretta]

Kristy, what does this mean: "When they are rearing..."? :scratch Thanks! :grin


When the OCD tendencies are rearing "their ugly heads" is the unspoked part of that! ;)

[Herbwifemama]

I think I definitely won't label myself here. I am definitely not a school at home kind- I'm interested in following the child led interests, but I also employ concepts from Waldorf, Montessori, and in the future, Charlotte Mason, Unit studies, and anything else that strikes my fancy. A relaxed eclectic homeschooler, I guess?

[allisonintx]

I really do have a montessori bent.

[musicmommy]

I am an eclectic/classic/charlotte mason schooler.

[MamaMansa]

We are relaxed and very eclectic. I don't know how I would categorize what we do.

We use curriculum (not school-in-a-box, but whatever works for each child in a subject.....even if that means no curriculum).

We do formal math and reading/language arts. Those are the only two subjects I insist on. Each child has something different though. Different learning styles, different curriculums. We read a lot and do interest based studies for science (right now we have an ant farm and are raising tadpoles). For science, my younger son reads Magic School Bus books because that's what he's interested in at the moment. My daughter does animal reports (of her own free will) because she wants to become the next Jeff Corwin. :giggle We read lots of living books everyday that would fall under the "history" category. The kids play lots of computer games that I would consider educational. We read the bible and the kids are in Awana.

We don't wake up at a certain time and we don't have a school schedule. My kids start math and language arts after they get up and eat.

What is that considered? :giggle Even with broad categories, I think there are no two homeschoolers that are completely alike.

[CelticJourney]

I am not a 'school at home' homeschooler
I am not a 'boxed curriculum' homeschooler
I do use textbooks and curriculum, but I mix and match based on preference
Every year the girls have input on some aspect of their curriculum
I do count days
I do record lessons completed
I do stress when I think we are behind, but I shouldn't because we always finish early and it's wasted stress
They do school in the car from time to time to make the most of the travel time.
I did count Animal Kingdom and Sea World as school days

What Am I?

[ArmsOfLove]

along with Terri I love the term "structured unschooler" which means we use curriculums but we use them as we want and as we desire and to enforce what we're doing. Teach the child, not the curriculum :heart And we use a lot of different curriculums combined with living books, nature journals, workbooks, learning through play, pocket books, toys, etc.

[Maggie]

Kristy ... Ah, I see, thanks! :grin I was thinking "they" were the kids and I just couldn't figure it out. :O :giggle I have OCD, so ITU! :hug

[illinoismommy]

:popcorn I have no identity yet

.....but I've been reading homeschooling books for a year now and I am reading For The Children's Sake and amblesideonline for Charlotte Mason and for the first time I feel really :yes (Seriously, I got tingles when I read: The busy mother says she has no leisure... and the child will run wild and get into bad habits; but we must not make a fetish of habit; education is a *life* as well as a discipline. Health, strength, and agility, bright eyes, and alert movements, come of a free life, out-of-doors, if it may be, and as for habits, there is no habit or power so useful to man or woman as that of personal initiative. The resourcefulness which will enable a family of children to invent their own games and occupations through the length of a summer's day is worth more in after life than a good deal of knowledge about cubes and hexagons, and this comes, not of continual intervetnion on the mother's part, but of much masterly inactivity) :mrgreen

The trouble is that I am not the best at organization and I wonder about my own ability to stay focused like a CM education requires .... that and people like to tell the mother of a 3 year old that she has no clue :giggle .... thought I'd chime in anyway

[KitKat]

I guess I am eclectic. But, I am following the principles in Heart of Wisdom. BUT, I am starting with some things sooner than she suggests. And, I don't use her suggestions on other things.

[Teacher Mom]

I am a relaxed homeschooler. TO some I am an unschooler but to many "radical unschoolers" I am NOT an unschooler.

But if I was FORCED to choose, I would call myself an unschooler :)


I think this best describes us too.

[Heather Micaela]

I am not a label becuase I have no official philospy I adhere to and pick and choose
but:

I am NOT School-at-Home or Boxed Curriculum
I do NOT follow a lesson plan for the year

I believe in chile-inspired unit studies but see the value in printed textbooks.

I am trying to bring structure to my day because my kids need it.


I like structured unschooler. Can I adopt that one? :)

Teach the child, not the curriculum
:yes

[Mother Duck]

We go through stages here -- we mostly unschool, sometimes radically unschool - but I have at least one child that after a while of radical unschooling starts asking for workbooks :jawdrop and another who just say's "Mummy, I'm bored!!!" then responds to some structure (after they moan and complain about it :giggle)

So, for all intents and purposes we are unschoolers :mrgreen

[deena]

I need to hold a school conference with the principal and decide what we do.


ie: I need to talk to myself in the bathroom mirror and find ourselves a label.


:laughtears



I'm an eclectic homeschooler. But I lean toward unschooling.

[inesperada]

I currently consider myself an unschooler because ds is too young for formal education. ;) We plan to classically homeschool when he gets to the stage at which he is ready.

[tempus vernum]

I don't mean to be snarky or rude but I have always assumed if you choose (you not the kids) and implement textbooks, workbooks or curriculum in a scheduled fashion you are not an unschooler :shrug What I think is cool about many homeschoolers on this board is that they tailor each subject for their specific child.

We use story of the world but ONLY at our children's request not on a scheduled basis :) That's the only curriculum we have.

It sounds like most people are eclectic and relaxed using a mix of this or a mix of that.

It's very cool to hear how people homeschool :mrgreen

I assumed most people didn't unschool because the "what are you using next year" threads get long around here :giggle I don't know what we are using until we actually find it and the kids like it and then we only use it if the kids stay interested. This is why I am trying to stop buying curriculum and focusing on games and the library. :)

[joyful mama]

sandy's only 3... but I consider them 'unschooled'. I see myself as being a relaxed schooler, probably. Definitely don't use a structured curriculum. Probably have Charlotte Mason tendencies, though I dont' know much about it.

[illinoismommy]

I don't mean to be snarky or rude but I have always assumed if you choose (you not the kids) and implement textbooks, workbooks or curriculum in a scheduled fashion you are not an unschooler :shrug What I think is cool about many homeschoolers on this board is that they tailor each subject for their specific child.

We use story of the world but ONLY at our children's request not on a scheduled basis :) That's the only curriculum we have.

It sounds like most people are eclectic and relaxed using a mix of this or a mix of that.

It's very cool to hear how people homeschool :mrgreen

I assumed most people didn't unschool because the "what are you using next year" threads get long around here :giggle I don't know what we are using until we actually find it and the kids like it and then we only use it if the kids stay interested. This is why I am trying to stop buying curriculum and focusing on games and the library. :)


It looks like most people said either unschooling or relaxed homeschoolers ... maybe its all about the perspective ... maybe we need a poll ...

[Leslie]

I don't mean to be snarky or rude but I have always assumed if you choose (you not the kids) and implement textbooks, workbooks or curriculum in a scheduled fashion you are not an unschooler :shrug


I think there are two definitions of unschooling circulating.

1. Child-led, non-text-book, unscheduled, relaxed education to varying degrees, depending on who you talk to, is unschooling.

OR

2. Anybody who isn't attempting to duplicate the public school classroom experience in their home is an unschooler. I think this is John Holt's definition, and puts most homeschoolers in the unschooling category - just about everybody except the strict Abeka and BJU types.

If we're going to use John Holt's definition, then the child-led, non-textbook, unscheduled, relaxed style needs a new name. I love that relaxed, free style, but it's not what we do, so I feel funny labeling myself an unschooler.

[ArmsOfLove]

If we're going to use John Holt's definition, then the child-led, non-textbook, unscheduled, relaxed style needs a new name. I love that relaxed, free style, but it's not what we do, so I feel funny labeling myself an unschooler.You hit the nail on the head! And honestly, if you do *totally* child led, non-textbook, unscheduled, relaxed where parent has no oversight, offers no direction, and child reads and watches only what they want, the chance of uneducating are very high in this day and age :( The only way to do it and provide an education is to ONLY allow educational tv, reading and play opportunities. As that goes counter to the parenting philosophies of most who choose that extreme position I have to wonder what actually is learned in their homes. I honestly don't mean to be judgmental and if you have a child who loves to read encyclopedias and watch the history channel ( I have one of those ;) ) you could maybe get away with it. But even he needs my help with understanding advanced mathematics :shrug But I do wish there was a different name for that extreme position because those of us unschooling according to Holt's definition end up having to explain to people that our children really do learn stuff :shifty

[illinoismommy]

If we're going to use John Holt's definition, then the child-led, non-textbook, unscheduled, relaxed style needs a new name. I love that relaxed, free style, but it's not what we do, so I feel funny labeling myself an unschooler.You hit the nail on the head! And honestly, if you do *totally* child led, non-textbook, unscheduled, relaxed where parent has no oversight, offers no direction, and child reads and watches only what they want, the chance of uneducating are very high in this day and age :( The only way to do it and provide an education is to ONLY allow educational tv, reading and play opportunities. As that goes counter to the parenting philosophies of most who choose that extreme position I have to wonder what actually is learned in their homes. I honestly don't mean to be judgmental and if you have a child who loves to read encyclopedias and watch the history channel ( I have one of those ;) ) you could maybe get away with it. But even he needs my help with understanding advanced mathematics :shrug But I do wish there was a different name for that extreme position because those of us unschooling according to Holt's definition end up having to explain to people that our children really do learn stuff :shifty


That's true, when I read John Holt it was not quite how MDC describes it.... I dare someone to go tell them they are not unschooling... it would get ugly :laughtears

[ArmsOfLove]

:laughtears what would you pay me? :shifty

No, just kidding. It would get ugly and it's part of their pride in their entire mothering style. That's okay. It's their thing. I just get really frustrated when people end up redefining something to suit them that has a perfectly good and workable definition already :grin

[Iarwain]

Well, we really are child-led in the education department. I may suggest something and even try to sell them on the advantages of learning something but I don't require it. I am certainly a more radical unschooler than most of what I've read here. I sure hope someone doesn't think we're uneducating.

[ArmsOfLove]

Well, we really are child-led in the education department. I may suggest something and even try to sell them on the advantages of learning something but I don't require it. I am certainly a more radical unschooler than most of what I've read here. I sure hope someone doesn't think we're uneducating.
Not at all, but I don't get that radical MDC vibe from your posts. The fact that you suggest and encourage things would have you shunned over there from what I hear :shifty


I do require and have some things routined, but even that doesn't mean we do it every day. Most of our learning is child led. Partly because with Liam's ODD I know I can't get him to learn by forcing something and because I believe learning is their responsibility--providing educational opportunities and information is mine. So even if I say, "We're reading SOTW" it's up to Liam if we read one short section or 4 chapters.

[Iarwain]

Well, we really are child-led in the education department. I may suggest something and even try to sell them on the advantages of learning something but I don't require it. I am certainly a more radical unschooler than most of what I've read here. I sure hope someone doesn't think we're uneducating.
Not at all, but I don't get that radical MDC vibe from your posts. The fact that you suggest and encourage things would have you shunned over there from what I hear :shifty
Yeah well, there's probably a reason I don't hang out at MDC. :)

[ArmsOfLove]

:giggle

[heartofjoy]

Well, I am going to use Sonlight's highly structured curriculum this year along with various workbooks. But I don't consider myself "school-at-home" or even very structured because I don't require my children to do the work if they are complaining about it. Up until now, they have begged for school work to do. Lately they've been balking a bit, so we put the books away and I try to bring learning into everyday life. This is unschooling to me. I don't do it all the time though because it's hard for me and I like books and structure and the feeling of completing something. I don't follow the school calendar, we go at our own pace, and I cater to my children's interests as best as I can. I am hoping to become more "delight-directed" as the baby gets older and hopefully things get easier to manage around here.

[Marmee]

I wish there was a better term to use than unschooling. I have always thought it sounded like I was "undoing" something - which I guess could be true if your children had been schooled and you were "de-toxing" or something. I stand by the principle of the "prepared environment". I have great educational book collections, DVD's, wooden toys and creative block play, etc. This along with weekly adventures in the community (museums, library, art museum, feeding the homeless, volunteering at the senior apartments, attending the ballet, concerts, etc.) seems to spur my children to ask questions and follow many pursuits. When my children ask for more structure - I tend to offer it. When they seem too structured, we take long breaks. I do follow their lead. We sometimes use Story of the World, but not always. We didn't "get through" much of it this year, because they became interested in a certain aspect of history. We started mainly using library books to read about it and made crafts. We started with a math curriculum, but threw it out mid-year. She was bored. We have mostly played math games with occasional days of using her old Miquon lab books. We don't have structured school time every day, but if they want to "play school" we will. Mostly we just read and read and read and learn and love together. We poke about the community a bit and plug in where we can. I feel it is very "John Holtish". I give my children tremendous respect and freedom. I always thought that unschooling was really just tremendous respect and freedom for the child - it may look a little different at each house - but still embody the spirit of freedom in education and trusting the child.

[domesticzookeeper]

Our educational approach is very definitely unschooled, delight-driven, and unstructured with the only exception being structure the child requests or sets up for themselves.

:yes

[SueQ]

We did use curriculum this year for math and LA/phonics but living books for everything else. Since we where doing AO, most of our school days was parent directed. Their art/science/music is very unschooled this year. (I didn't do the art and composer studies part of AO and even nature study I let go because my boys are natural nature lovers) They spent hours outside looking at the birds and bugs and they spend hours in the evening drawing. I didn't offer any suggestions to them in art and science other then I did onetime tell them that things look bigger under a magnifying glass and that they might enjoy looking at a worm under one. Now they carry magnifying glasses with them whenever they are out.

It's always been in the back of my mind wondering if I just let things go if the boys would learn to read and learn their math facts like they have learned art and science. A lot of unschoolers on the unschooling yahoo list for my state that I am a part of would say, "Yes, of course, your nuts to even question it." but I just can't let that area go. Spelling is what I point to as proof. I have let spelling go but yet, my 8 yo hasn't shown any progress in spelling. He could care less about spelling. Because of that, next year I am going to use Dr. Beechick's method to teach spelling.

I still don't think I would fall into the unschooling catergory. We don't use textbooks much but yet I do direct my children's learning. Next year we'll be using an astronomy text because Devin wants to study astronomy and suggested the text we saw. Well, be using Ray's Arithemetic and lots of games and a felt board to teach math. I ordered a used LLATL Yellow book for ds but I am hoping to teach LA without any curriclum. (I just needed that guide because part of me needed to have it for rassurance. :rolleyes)

So what am I? Not an unschooler...not school at home....I guess I am *ME* a mom that loves my children, follows their interests and needs and then tries to help them learn in a relaxed way.

[rosesnsnails]

I am a relaxed homeschooler. TO some I am an unschooler but to many "radical unschoolers" I am NOT an unschooler.

But if I was FORCED to choose, I would call myself an unschooler

That pretty much says it for me. Although I go through periods of doing more schoolish things. :)

[tempus vernum]

:idea I had a lightbulb moment. At the time of John HOlt's writing their was a "free school" movement where people didn't "teach" but encouraged learning through their environment. IIRC, John Holt studied these schools and traditional schools to come up with his own views of education.

Modern definitions of unschooling by the majority of people's ideas (radical or not radical) is delight driven almost entirely - with no schedules or impositions of the parent. That doesn't mean they aren't being educated but the student get to determine what direction their education takes. The idea popped into mind that we have redefined homeschooling and unschooling

Originally (at the time of John HOlts writings) he was defining unschooling and homeschooling as the same thing (non public school). I can't remember his books that I have read but I found this article http://www.mhla.org/information/resourcesarticles/holtorigins.htm and it says Unschooling was Holt's neologism for describing what families were doing at home with their kids during school hours. He created this word in order to avoid giving the impression that families were merely creating miniature schools in their homes, as the word homeschooling connotes. However, Holt used unschooling and homeschooling interchangeably in his writing, and eventually felt that homeschooling, for better or worse, was the term most people would use when discussing the idea that one can learn without going to school. This article BTW also gives an interesting summary of Holt's views and how they changed in regards to free schools.


Now, traditional definition of homeschooling is just teaching them at home.
The term unschooling has "changed" to mean a lack of parental imposition on a child's education. The majority of homeschoolers on this board (whether using curriculum and schedules or not) follow each child's strengths and weaknesses and use materials (if any) specific to those weaknesses within their own personal learning philosophy :rockon.

[ArmsOfLove]

excellent summary, Jodi :clap ITA

[booboo]

:think I'm a nondairy half and half. ;)

[mammal_mama]

We're unschoolers. And I'm becoming increasingly radical.

From my understanding, unschooling has NOTHING to do with whether or not you have workbooks, textbooks, or even curriculums in your home -- and EVERYTHING to do with whether your children's learning is directed by your children or by you. I think an unschooling family can have ALL these items, but as long as it's simply stuff the children can pick-and-choose from, it's not any more "structured" than unschooling where there are NO such items in the home.

A few years back, I was VERY anti-workbook, and would get seriously teed-off when people kept giving them to my dd. Even coloring books were too structured in my opinion! It bugged me how much my dd enjoyed these things.

I didn't feel right about getting rid of these items "on her behalf" -- so I'd tuck them in little out-of-the-way places, so she'd often forget about them 'til she happened to come across them (or I'd get them for her if she thought of them and asked for them). I finally admitted, to myself, that I wasn't letting her totally follow her own interests. Now I feel totally okay about her choosing from the wide variety of things available -- the outdoors, her toys and art supplies, TV and electronic media, books, workbooks, and of course cooking, sewing, and helping me around the house.

I certainly haven't read every. single. unschooling post at MDC, or been to every. single. unschooling or radical unschooling site. I suppose there must really be some people who never suggest anything to their children. I (and the unschoolers whose posts and articles I HAVE read, as far as I recall), feel fine about suggesting things we think the child might enjoy. I just think unschoolers don't believe in going beyond suggesting, and trying to force the child to do the activity, or nagging and making the child feel guilty for not doing it.

But, with my oldest just being 7, I haven't been reading and looking into these things as long as some of you have. I don't want to discount the experiences of others who've been told (or who've read), "You're not unschooling if you ever suggest anything to your child." As far as having "academic" stuff in the home, the radical unschoolers I've encountered (online) seem pretty comfortable with having it available. Whereas some (maybe Waldorf?) homeschoolers seem to think it's harmful to let children experience these things before a certain age -- radical unschoolers seem more inclined to say, "As long as it's the CHILD wanting to do the workbook (or watch Sesame Street or learn to read) -- it's okay; it's only harmful if the child's not interested and the parent is pushing the issue."

[mindyeva7]

I am a relaxed homeschooler. TO some I am an unschooler but to many "radical unschoolers" I am NOT an unschooler

:giggle This is me too, only to add that to curriculumed homeschoolers, I am an "unschooler" lol. It's kind of like when I was in high school and the stoners thought I was a prep and the preps thought I was a stoner!!!!! :think