killing earthworms

[KarenBoo]

This is just the strangest thing...

DD (nearly 4) recognizes when we are eating chicken that we were responsible for "killing" the chicken. She says "I bet the chicken didn't like that!" or "maybe her mommy is looking for her." Stuff like that.

Well, we are out digging in the garden a lot these days, and she's really into making mud pies and mud soups. Recently she started finding earthworms and putting them into her soup. I told her that she's killing the earthworms. She says "I know. I want to kill them." I ask why, and she says "they make my soup taste good." I say "I don't know if Iike you killing them." and she sweetly replies "little girls like to kill them." :rolleyes

So I'm sort of torn between teaching her not to kill them and to treat all little creatures nicely or just letting her play and explore and not micro-managing her play. Today when DH and I were discussing it in front of her, she gave us a serious look and said "let's not talk about it anymore," and then keeps forbidding the topic! :giggle

What would you do? I told her that DH and I would discuss it tonight and give her a final rule tomorrow.

[klpmommy]

:popcorn

Not sure what I would do, but I can totally see that coming up once the weather gets nice enough to go outside.

[expatmom]

Is she actually killing the worms? I'd think the worms would think they were having a great mud bath & when she tired of her play they'd squiggle back to wherever they came from. :shrug Playing with worms is fun. :giggle

[KarenBoo]

Oh yes, she's actually drowning them in her "soup." Then, for good measure, she hacks them up with her garden hoe!! :jawdrop :giggle

[joandsarah77]

I would not alow that. But then I am a softy and I like earth worms.

[flowermama]

So I'm sort of torn between teaching her not to kill them and to treat all little creatures nicely

I think teaching her this would be very good, and I don't think that teaching her this would be micro-managing her play at all. There is still a lot of stuff that she can put in her mud soup. Even just allowing her the freedom to experience the joy of making mud pies shows you are not into micro-managing her play.

[Heather Micaela]

So I'm sort of torn between teaching her not to kill them and to treat all little creatures nicely

I think teaching her this would be very good, and I don't think that teaching her this would be micro-managing her play at all. There is still a lot of stuff that she can put in her mud soup. Even just allowing her the freedom to experience the joy of making mud pies shows you are not into micro-managing her play.


I agree. Provided you are not trying to teach a vegetarian lifestyle I would say she can pretend to "cook" them - like 4 and 20 earthworms baked in a pie - but no drowning them. Or better yet, find better things she can do to the earthworms. And feed that need to see cut up worms by shoing her a crossection drawing of one in a book.

[expatmom]

I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but earthworms do regenerate if they are cut in two. :shrug And I dont think they would drown in mud soup. They breathe thru their skin in a moist environment & don't need to be in the air to breath.

I think if she is hacking them into little bits (with what? :hunh ) then I'd set a boundary of its okay to play with them but they have to be returned to the ground in their original form at the end of the playtime.

[allisonintx]

Chickens are food animals, and that's why we kill them. Earthworms are WORKING ANIMALS, like horses or guide dogs. They have a job to do in the yard that is very important. Pill Bugs (RolleyPoleys) on the other hand, are PESTS that eat the roots of our plants and grass, and can be dispatched in soup any day of the week!

[KarenBoo]

Chickens are food animals, and that's why we kill them. Earthworms are WORKING ANIMALS, like horses or guide dogs. They have a job to do in the yard that is very important. Pill Bugs (RolleyPoleys) on the other hand, are PESTS that eat the roots of our plants and grass, and can be dispatched in soup any day of the week!


:yes This is mostly what I told her last night. I told her that worms make the soil nice for the plants and help the garden grow nice. By the end of her play yesterday, I actually did put my food down. She said I wasn't in charge and only she could decide what to do with the worms. :jawdrop :lol I told her that I was indeed in charge, and if she killed one more worm that she'd go inside, and that if she kept on killing the worms then she would no longer be able to dig in the dirt until she could do so without killing the worms. I think she won't be killing any more worms.

Oh, and I did move on to "let's make a worm farm." So, instead of putting the worms into her soup, I had her move the worms to a different garden plot. She seemed to take to that very well. Some day after the garden is set, I'll probably make a real composting worm farm for her.

[SouthPaw]

this whole topic has me :jawdrop :laughtears

[SueQ]

Chickens are food animals, and that's why we kill them. Earthworms are WORKING ANIMALS, like horses or guide dogs.
In some countries earthworms are food animals as are ants... ;)

I would read her some books about earthworms and teach that they are good for the soil. Then I would get some earthworms and mud in a container to observe for a few days before releasing them again. Keep the mud moist but not sopping wet and feed them leaves and such. Once she learns about worms and what they are good for, I bet she will respect them and their work.

My 8 yo wants to raise earthworms (he got the idea from Ranger Rick) and we will be setting up for it next month. (He just read this and corrected me that he will not be raising just any old earthworm but that he is raising Red Wigglers. "There is a difference mom and Red Wiggler dirt is best for the garden soil." :giggle)

[LittleSweetPeas]

We had this exact talk the other day. I told DD that she's right, earthworms are great fun to play with but since they are living creatures we need to treat them with respect (no chopping/pulling/stomping) and when we're done we need to put them back in their habitat (mud).

This seems to work for her. Shes into the killing thing as well but I just try to find the boundaries for her to play with living things.

[joandsarah77]

In some countries earthworms are food animals as are ants... True but animals killed for food should always be killed quickly and humanly not drowned and chopped up. :jawdrop

[SueQ]

In some countries earthworms are food animals as are ants... True but animals killed for food should always be killed quickly and humanly not drowned and chopped up. :jawdrop


:yes We are stewards of God's creatures and God has entrusted us to treat them respectfully. I wasn't disagreeing with that. Just pointing out that they are a food source in some places.

[Rabbit]

I would come at it from the principal that all animals must be treated humanely, even those we eat. No drowning or maiming allowed. It sounds like she's working out how it's okay to chop up a chicken, but not an earthworm, and there's no need for her to think it's okay to brutalize either.

(Yeah, yeah, I know. Supermarket food isn't killed humanely.)

[KarenBoo]

We don't buy supermarket meat, nor do we eat it in restaurants. :mrgreen We definitely talk about how we only eat animals that have been humanely raised in our home. She's seen on "How It's Made" a chicken egg factory, and I explained how horrid it was to have all of those chickens in cages like that. I told her that the chickens we eat were allowed to run and play and eat bugs and have a happy life before we eat them. okay...getting ot here! :giggle

[mama-hobbit]

I'd just have the rule that if you want to kill animals for food then you have to eat them - otherwise it's wasteful. :shrug


*I'm sure you don't really want her eating worms, so that would probably solve the problem... ;)

[klpmommy]

:giggle And if she wants to eat them you can read How to Eat Fried Worms (Rockwell) to her. :giggle

[jghomeschooler]

Just curious, exactly HOW does some one "humanely" kill another living being? :scratch :scratch :hunh

[KarenBoo]

You don't terrify the animal, and you make it as quick and painless as possible. Sure, it's still killing them, but that's the humane way to do it. But there's a lot more to that - it's important to me that the animal had a happy life in a good environment (fresh air, sunshine, exercise, natural diet, low stress) before that. You can not say that about any commercial feedlot animal - they are not humanely treated throughout their existence.

[SouthPaw]

2. humane - marked or motivated by concern with the alleviation of suffering

basically, what karenboo said. :grin

[Singingmom]

A few years ago the dc and I were visiting friends from church. The kids were outside playing together while the moms talked inside and checked on them periodically. On the way home in the car, my ds began to cry ***warning---disturbing thing ahead for nature lovers*** and told me that one of the older boys had impaled a grasshopper on part of a fence. I was sad and mad that he'd had to witness that, but at the same time I was glad that he was tenderhearted about insects and animals and that he was horrified by hurting something for sport. I've always taught my dc to be in awe of nature and we love to observe things like grasshoppers and even try to keep them in the bug barn to see them up close and then let them go. They have field guides which they have studied for hours and used for drawing insects and animals.

The parents of the other boy hadn't taught their kids the same way. They had different attitudes from what I could tell. If you start now teaching your dd that we don't kill for sport, that we respect creatures in their habitat and study them to see how awesome God's creation is, it will stick. If she's allowed to kill for sport, that lesson will stick too.

[Lois]

I agree with previous posters, that it's about teaching when and what is ok to kill...for food. and if you purposfully kill something, you should to eat it...etc. I also agree with the previous posts about moving on after that discussionand give some healthy suggestions for the worm play about having a "tea party" or something with the worms and they can hang out and crawl around in the dirt she is playing with, but she must handle them gently and return them to the ground after the tea party is done.