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View Full Version : AND i lost another friend over spanking.


BluegrassMama
02-10-2007, 12:13 AM
I do not understand this. I can't say how many times this has happened. I don't think it is just me, in this case, because most of the time my friends don't leave....

Anyway, here's what happened: this latest incident was online with friends that I meet IRL once a year or so)....the topic of spanking came up. Now, what I have in common with these friends is the background of spiritual abuse in the same church. Abuse, that is what we have in common. So somebody asks about spanking in the past in said church, and about everybody's feelings now. Do we spank/not spank/agree/disagree etc. I didn't say anything for awhile and then I said "I did see some very harsh corporeal punishment in ___church. Especially toward babies and toddlers. I don't spank, and it was difficult for me to try to take my child out to nurse or rock to sleep because someone was always using spoons on toddlers or smacking babies in the face for being loud in the worship."

That's what I said, and I didn't think it would be a problem because I thought even most regular spankers would agree that these two things were wrong (spoons and toddlers, smacking infants in the face).

Next thing I know, nobody is talking to me. People began posting about how nonspanking mothers think they are better mothers than everybody else, when their children are the biggest brats around. Just running wild, while the parent does nothing yet feels so much more righteous and holy than a calm, godly spanking mother. And others agreed, even my dear, dear friends who I have visited with while our children played (and my children were absolutely perfect on those visits!!!). Why they sided 'against' me when the topic of the whole board is abuse, and my children are not brats... :cry

And now nobody talks to me.

This happens IRL, too. In our new church, yelling and insulting the children seems to be the standard mode of discipline (while the kids run totally wild). I don't do that, everyone wants to compliment me on my boys' behavior in church. But I've learned what to say when they say, "I've never seen you yell or spank, but your boys are so well-behaved. How do you do it?" I've learned to say, "I don't know, I guess they are just good boys!" in a stupid, vacant manner. Because if I begin to talk about attachment parenting and gentle discipline, even in a way that is only about MY home and not about anyone else, that person will never speak to me again.

I want to crawl under a rock. Some of you mamas know what I went thru in an Ezzo church a few years ago, and from then to now I have never felt accepted by other mothers. This isn't what I wanted. I want gentle mama friends whose children are rowdy and normal but polite and kind, like mine. I want to speak about my home and struggles and experiences and successes, without the other person feeling like we are not from the same planet. I want to move to Portland where all the crunchy people live.

Sigh. I didn't think it would be this way.

TulipMama
02-10-2007, 12:18 AM
:bheart

Oh, I'm sooooo sorry. That would have me crying and frustrated and angry. *hug*

CelticJourney
02-10-2007, 06:28 AM
IRL or online, it is hard to have people turn on you. :hug2

MarynMunchkins
02-10-2007, 06:37 AM
:hug2 That's horrible! :(

ArmsOfLove
02-10-2007, 07:59 AM
I was just reading your post and the word "ministry" kept coming into my head. That God is calling you to something and this is happening because of that. Satan wants to discourage you :( Please try to not let him. People can be cruel and I've btdt. My best friend overheard another very good friend telling her new Ezzo friends how she was "released by God" from our friendship and she had been feeling it for a while and should have listened so that I wouldn't have been able to hurt her like I did. What I did was suggest we get together at a park because I knew we both really disagreed with the parenting choices the other was making and in a neutral place it wouldn't be an issue like in either of our homes. *sigh*

BluegrassMama
02-10-2007, 08:57 AM
Thank you all so much for the support :heart I posted once more on that board, to calmly explain why I do what I do and how it feels to be so disparaged for it. The result was another chorus about how spanking is so wonderful :no2 . Once again, my feelings and experiences didn't matter. Defending what was done to them, and what they choose to do, were much more important.

Crystal, I'm so sorry for that experience for you :( "released from your friendship by God"...no words.

I do believe it is a ministry. I believe it must be 'just' for my husband and my own boys, because no one has ever, ever listened to me about gentle discipline! I have 'converted' mamas to AP practices with infants, but never to nonspanking. That is so strange to me, to fail every single time. I think I need to listen and quit trying; that is evidently not my work. Anything for others needs to be example only, in my case.

You know that Kingston Trio song, "You've got to walk that Lonesome Valley, you've got to walk it by yourself...." I don't know why I have to do this by myself (except of course for IRL support :heart and friends). I think maybe it is because my husband is easily tempted back to punitive methods, even though he believes he must not spank. Maybe I have to be lonely to minimize those influences on him. Maybe it is as simple as Satan trying to force me back into the mainstream just out of loneliness and frustration. Maybe God has some big surprises and rewards in mind; maybe my children will be more able to do great things in the world because of the way they were raised. Maybe this is all for a future daughter-in-law who will need the example and experience. I don't know. It is not for nothing, I believe that.

siberian
02-10-2007, 06:31 PM
I'm so sorry for what you are going through :cry. GD can be very lonely. I wonder if the reason mamas feel the need to externally defend spanking so vehemently is because deep down they know there is a better way... :think

katiekind
02-10-2007, 08:24 PM
(((((Bluegrassmama))))) I'm so sorry, too. That would be very hurtful. :hugheart

Wonder Woman
02-10-2007, 09:02 PM
oh, I'm so sorry. It is hurtful :hugheart

You know, I think *especially in a situation* where the topic is abuse, the whole nonspanking thing is going to be harder for those moms - because no one wants to think they are abusing their dc. :(

I'll pray that they see that the whole spanking bit as another legalism hangover :( :pray2

joyfulmomof2
02-12-2007, 07:19 AM
How awful! :cry I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. A few years back, I was in a church where I had to go through a lot of this too. There is hope, sweet mama. :heart

beccafromlalaland
02-12-2007, 07:30 AM
I do believe it is a ministry. I believe it must be 'just' for my husband and my own boys, because no one has ever, ever listened to me about gentle discipline! I have 'converted' mamas to AP practices with infants, but never to nonspanking. That is so strange to me, to fail every single time. I think I need to listen and quit trying; that is evidently not my work. Anything for others needs to be example only, in my case.




AP parenting, is what brought me to gentle discipline. I got to know my child, and found that I didn't "need" to spank him for every offense (or percieved offense) nor did I need to spank him daily, or even weekly. I still struggle with the punitive upbringing I had and how to raise my children without raising a hand to them. But if I had never been intro'd to AP I would have never walked down this path...and it didn't happen right away. Cooper was 3 before my heart started softening.

HomeWithMyBabies
02-12-2007, 12:29 PM
:hugheart That must've been painful.

I really do think things are going to improve someday, at least I hope so. You *are* making an impact on the future, but it is hard. I'm still in hiding with my friends myself, and that's ok. God knows. :yes

And I would have been one of those mamas myself once, I'll bet I was-not when it came to spanking but as far as punitive parenting goes, oh yes. So take heart because it's possible to plant a seed and not see any growth right away. I just needed to germinate for awhile.

Dizzy Blond
02-12-2007, 03:00 PM
People get angry and defensive when they are confronted with their own wrongs. If they felt they were right in spanking, they wouldn't be mad at you, they would just think you're silly. Being defensive and justifying why *they* spank indicates they know its wrong, but don't want to change or don't know how to change.

Keep it up, hopefully you'll get through! :tu

Believe me, when I *calmly* tell my mom I'm doing XYZ, she starts screaming in my face "You're not better than me!!" Its just God convicting her. If she didn't feel convicted, she'd just say "oh".

heartsong
02-12-2007, 04:11 PM
Girl let me tell you something right now......

You stand up and you tell those people right from the start. This is what I do in my home. If you want to know more about it then we can talk. DO NOT feel bad. I still spank every once in awhile and I am trying sooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to stop and I have to say I use to feel the way those women did about people who do not spank their kids. I have totaly changed my feelings about it. I REALLY WANT to never spank again but it does get the best of me sometimes. STAND PROUD GIRL! Because I can't right now because I still spank and at least you don't.

jtidwell
02-13-2007, 11:33 AM
That's awful. :hug2

I agree with many of the other posters -- they probably feel, deep down, that spanking is something they have to circle the wagons and defend, because it's just not right. Cognitive dissonance is powerful enough to make people deny facts, like your kids's good behavior.

Now. What do you think God is asking you to do?

* Be a quiet witness to these other mothers? If anything's going to change their minds, it may be someone like you, who lives out a fine example of a non-spanking family. Despite what they said about you, I bet they know that your kids are well-behaved; they just don't want to admit it (per above).

* Leave the situation, for your own well-being? Changing churches is a difficult thing, but is this God's way of saying that you need to find somewhere better suited to you and your family?

Keep us posted...

fourbygrace
02-15-2007, 01:01 AM
:hug2 Stay strong, mama! I am proud of you for being courageous enough to be honest about your parenting. You are doing right and I agree that they probably feel convicted.

Also as Crystal said, you probably have a ministry that the enemy is trying to keep you from having. I have been thinking lately that God must have big plans for my children because it seems like satan is working so hard against my becoming a GCM.

I am embarrassed to say that I have not lost any friends over GBD because I have not been honest about my parenting (just keeping silent or passing the bean dip when the subject comes up, not out and out lying) :blush

I also feel like a PP, in that I am not always very gentle and my kids are still struggling with so many issues that are a result of the past, that I feel unable to "prove" that GBD is effective.

Blessings,
Mary