So I found my copy of Babywise... let's talk manipulation

[illinoismommy]

... and I picked it up because I was curious. So I turn to chapter 2 and WOW its amazing how manipulating it is. They use a mother's emotions and wish for the best for her child to manipulate the mothers into doing things their way-- their way, the best way, the only way to have a successful family and marriage. I only read chapter two, but it was dedicated to proving that all other parenting philosophies, particularly AP, is so seriously flawed. I've read Dr. Sears' book and he's never taken the time to prove that all other parenting approaches are faulty and lead to flawed children.... apparently he doesn't need to, kwim? But Babywise NEEDS to manipulate in order to instigate the desired response. I just have to share some of the :scratch 's

Its important to note that the modern attachment parenting theory and the theories of attachment are not the same. The first is a parenting philosophy driven by an interesting but unproven philosophical assumption-- birth trauma.

Did I miss it? I've been around AP parenting for about 2 years now, and no one has ever talked to me about birth trauma and how I need to recreate the womb because of birth trauma. :shrug There's tons about it in this chapter too.

Allicin, a third-time mom and former attachment-parenting follower describes are more fatiguing experience. 'I nursed my babies whenever they cried or began to fuss. On average, I was told that mothering attachment required me to nurse every two hours around the clock for the first six weeks,' says Allicin. 'I was exhausted and forced to give up breastfeeding.'

This quote is followed by a little number, which I followed to the back of the book and it gives a reference to a Dr. Sears book. :think Gee, and isn't Dr. Sears giving out the recommendation that the AAP says? Oh wait, Ezzo knows better than the American Academy of Pediatricians what was I thinking!?!? The AAP's recommended breastfeeding practices.... http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b100/6/1035 "Newborns should be nursed approximately 8 to 12 times every 24 hours until satiety, usually 10 to 15 minutes on each breast." (bold mine)

Ahem.... 2 hours around the clock for the first 6 weeks, as referred to in the book = 12 times a day.

When attachment parenting is noted, we are implying that the baby's cry is the primary signal (cue) for nursing. This is true regardless of whether that cry is for food or a presumed psychological need. The baby is offered the breast simply and immediately without regard to assessment of real need

No, its not. :mad First, crying is a late indicator of hunger and not what AP parents are waiting for to feed baby. Second, AP parents do not assume that all crying means that baby needs the breast.

Continuous access to the mother's breast and immediate gratification are the primary parts of the attachment process. ... Thus, the devout La Leche League mother will respond to her baby's cry with the breast even if it is the third time in thirty minutes. She is acting on the fearful assumption that every cry is a call for hunger or represents the early signals of attachment failure.

I missed this memo. :hunh

Exclusive cue-response feeding can easily lead to infant dehydration, low weight gain, failure to thrive, and frustration for both baby and mom.

:hunh :hunh :scratch :laughtears Yeah, good one. You should see the reference on that one.

In fhe end, PDF promotes breast-feeding, healthy sleep, and healthy infant weight gain. So we ask parents to consider which feeding philosophy makes the most sense?

Manipulate, manipulate, manipulate.... promotes breastfeeding, yeah right. More like leads to early weaning because it goes against medical advice!!

The last time I read this, someone gave it to me and it was the first parenting book I read while pregnant with DS. I didn't notice the manipulation then because I didn't realize how it gave you blatant lies to convince you to do it their way.

[klpmommy]

The last time I read this, someone gave it to me and it was the first parenting book I read while pregnant with DS. I didn't notice the manipulation then because I didn't realize how it gave you blatant lies to convince you to do it their way.

Yup. Me, too. I fell for all the fear tactics. After all, I certainly didn't want to be the parent to a horrible brat, did I?

Now that I look back I can see what convinced me that BW was *the* book to follow. And I can see how they are lies. But I can so totally understand how people fall for it hook,line & sinker. (or is that hook, line & stinker? )

[beccafromlalaland]

Exclusive cue-response feeding can easily lead to infant dehydration, low weight gain, failure to thrive, and frustration for both baby and mom.

:hunh :hunh :scratch :laughtears Yeah, good one. You should see the reference on that one.




Uh...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't feeding at every cry produce a Well Hydrated, fat, chubster of a baby??

[Soliloquy]

Yeah, I had a;; those thoughts when I read it, too. You have to lie if your position is flawed.

[Benjaminswife]

Exclusive cue-response feeding can easily lead to infant dehydration, low weight gain, failure to thrive, and frustration for both baby and mom.

:hunh :hunh :scratch :laughtears Yeah, good one. You should see the reference on that one.




Uh...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't feeding at every cry produce a Well Hydrated, fat, chubster of a baby??


Not all demand fed babies are fat ;)

[illinoismommy]

Exclusive cue-response feeding can easily lead to infant dehydration, low weight gain, failure to thrive, and frustration for both baby and mom.

:hunh :hunh :scratch :laughtears Yeah, good one. You should see the reference on that one.




Uh...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't feeding at every cry produce a Well Hydrated, fat, chubster of a baby??


The reference is to some 20-20 episode where a child's leg got gangrene because the child wasn't demanding enough.

Elsewhere there is discussion how frequent feedings doesn't allow baby to get hindmilk and that leads to inadequate weight gain (according to Ezzo).

[beccafromlalaland]

Well mine are :giggle

At the very least they aren't usually (barring a medical problem) FTT

[mamaKristin]

I know when I was pregnant with my first, and I had a friend pushing Babywise on me, she said a few things that made me :hunh.
Like "if you miss even one feeding, you can lose your milk" "you need to do this system, or else you will have a horrible child that people won't want to be around" "this is the only way to raise a baby"

I was a soon to be first time mom, but even I found those statements just way too out there. Even with my limited knowledge of breastfeeding, I knew that basic rules of supply and demand meant you wouldn't lose your milk over missing one feeding by an hour. I think the whole system is flawed in the Ezzo's books...simply because they are starting from a place of ignorance/incorrectness and fight tooth and nail to prop their system up with more ignorance and falsehoods.

Good observations. :rockon

[hey mommy]

Exclusive cue-response feeding can easily lead to infant dehydration, low weight gain, failure to thrive, and frustration for both baby and mom.

:hunh :hunh :scratch :laughtears Yeah, good one. You should see the reference on that one.




Uh...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't feeding at every cry produce a Well Hydrated, fat, chubster of a baby??


Not all demand fed babies are fat ;)




true.....

[katiekind]

Janet--preach it, sister!

In fhe end, PDF promotes breast-feeding, healthy sleep, and healthy infant weight gain. So we ask parents to consider which feeding philosophy makes the most sense?

Great quote from Babywise. Isn't it interesting that after hyping its wonderfulness and safety and superiority for breastfeeding, it then backpedals and says,

"We wish everything in this book worked perfectly for each mom/baby combination when it comes to lactation."
Babywise, 2001, p. 64

and then after a thicket of weasel-worded prose you find the authors are saying that parents should realize in advance that choosing to use Babywise may put breastfeeding at risk at some point down the road.

"Where you, the parent places [sic] breastfeeding and/or the establishment of healthy day and nighttime sleep as a priority will direct you to the feeding philosophy that can best accomplish your goals. We advise moms and dads to be sure that they know before the baby is born what their priorities are because in parenting there will always be trade-offs.
Babywise, 2001, p. 65"

They should put these warnings closer to the front of the book! It would get critics off their back a little more if it was out in the open for all to see, including the parents buying and reading the book, that Babywise really isn't terribly compatible with breastfeeding. They could stop pretending that it is compatible, and we could stop criticising them for having such bad breastfeeding advice, and they could stop attacking critics for criticising the bad breastfeeding advice, etc.

[Sister Ray]

Its important to note that the modern attachment parenting theory and the theories of attachment are not the same. The first is a parenting philosophy driven by an interesting but unproven philosophical assumption-- birth trauma.

Did I miss it? I've been around AP parenting for about 2 years now, and no one has ever talked to me about birth trauma and how I need to recreate the womb because of birth trauma. :shrug There's tons about it in this chapter too




I know a few fringe people who claim to promote attachment theory that do say that, but they are in the extreme minority. It seems appopriate that he would take the most extreme belief and present it as the most common.

[Eowyn]

Elsewhere there is discussion how frequent feedings doesn't allow baby to get hindmilk and that leads to inadequate weight gain (according to Ezzo).


Yeah, tell that to my nursed every 1.5 hours 20lb, 3 month old (Ian). :rolleyes2 My Ezzo inspired midwife told me at his 6-week check up (he weighed 13lbs, 8oz), that I was feeding him too often and reiterated her "give him a pacifier" advice from the 3-day postpartum visit. :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes


Thus, the devout La Leche League mother will respond to her baby's cry with the breast even if it is the third time in thirty minutes.


:laughtears Dude, where's my cult? It's funny--my mother refers to LLL in the same manner. Like it's some sort of weird religion. :rolleyes "Well how does La Leche say to do it?" "That's the La Leche way, isn't it?" :rolleyes2

[Teacher Mom]

Ha!

My friend asked me why I went to LLL meetings and I wanted to ask her why she went to al anon meetings. SUPPORT from people experiencing the same things as yourself! As if because it was breastfeeding, who would need to talk about that!

[Mamatoto]

I've been around AP parenting for about 2 years now, and no one has ever talked to me about birth trauma and how I need to recreate the womb because of birth trauma

That's really interesting to me...the only people I have heard talk about birth and pre-birth trauma IRL is my Ezzo friends who were into the Elijah House teachings. :scratch

[Beth1231]

Well...okay then I need to be educated. I don't know if I should start a new thread or what. I'm going to nurse, I read Babywise and I also read "The Baby Book" and "So That's What They're There For." So..hmm...Questions:

1. What does it mean when you have a 20lb 3month old, Eowyn? (or anyone can answer). I truly thought that was too heavy for that age, but I have no idea what is medically a concern and what is within the range of normal.
2. If you nurse on demand as much as baby wants to nurse, when does baby get hindmilk? :scratch This is weird; I read three books and don't know the answers to this?
3. So do I just offer to nurse when my infant cries? Or do you check their diaper first or see if they're too warm or cold? Or maybe just need to be snuggled? Hmm.....is there something I can read to get educated in the GCM way? I'm assuming the GCM way is pretty close to Dr. Sear's way (which I like, but still don't understand, obviously).
Thanks for taking a moment to answer any of my questions....this thread made me realize how clueless I am after reading books from such totally different views. I forget which parts are lies and which parts are truth. :/

[simplegirl]

Only read OP, not comments yet, but a lightbulb is going off.  This is why so many Ezzo following friends/people I've encountered say all those hurtful comments about the way we parent.  They've been pumped with false information AGAINST it  :no2

[Mamatoto]

HannahGrace,
Questions

1. It means that they are growing as they should. :yes Normal is whatever your child is as you feed them when they need to nurse (if there is no medical problem of course).

2. Personally, I never switched sides. One side at a time and they always got hindmilk.

3. I'm not sure how to answer that exactly...I always made sure they were clean and dry and warm whether they were crying or not. When they started rooting a bit I would nurse. Ds hardly cried ever because I knew what he needed as I connected to his cues. We were one...that's what my username means :mrgreen. I just knew what he needed because we were so connected. Anytime I hear a baby cry I get this awful urge to nurse now...you can't go wrong by offering them to nurse first when they are babes.

[Eowyn]

1. What does it mean when you have a 20lb 3month old, Eowyn?  (or anyone can answer). I truly thought that was too heavy for that age, but I have no idea what is medically a concern and what is within the range of normal.

He was almost 26 inches at that age, too.  So just off the charts for weight and 97th percentile for height.

It also means he looked like this--with the roly poly legs :giggle:

<edited to remove pic due to posting guidelines>

[simplegirl]

Well...okay then I need to be educated. I don't know if I should start a new thread or what. I'm going to nurse, I read Babywise and I also read "The Baby Book" and "So That's What They're There For." So..hmm...Questions:

1. What does it mean when you have a 20lb 3month old, Eowyn?  (or anyone can answer). I truly thought that was too heavy for that age, but I have no idea what is medically a concern and what is within the range of normal.
2. If you nurse on demand as much as baby wants to nurse, when does baby get hindmilk?  :scratch This is weird; I read three books and don't know the answers to this?
3. So do I just offer to nurse when my infant cries? Or do you check their diaper first or see if they're too warm or cold? Or maybe just need to be snuggled? Hmm.....is there something I can read to get educated in the GCM way? I'm assuming the GCM way is pretty close to Dr. Sear's way (which I like, but still don't understand, obviously). 
Thanks for taking a moment to answer any of my questions....this thread made me realize how clueless I am after reading books from such totally different views. I forget which parts are lies and which parts are truth.  :/


I'm under the assumption you're pregnant with your first...if otherwise, disregard my post.  Honestly I didn't know how I would parent, nurse, etc until my DS was here.  I had ideas but nothing concrete.  Didn't know how often I'd nurse, or that we'd end up co-sleeping.  My instincts were my best advice to me and my baby.  I didn't know that I was "AP parenting" until I talked with playgroup friends about what felt natural and best for our family where I was informed there was actually a name for it.  Then I came onto GCM and love this community!!!  Good for you for finding this first!  Trust God, trust yourself, trust your baby.  Most of the time it will just come natural to know when to feed, hold, or whatever for that moment.  Anyway, that's how I felt.

[illinoismommy]

2. If you nurse on demand as much as baby wants to nurse, when does baby get hindmilk? :scratch This is weird; I read three books and don't know the answers to this?



Its funny I too was confused on this point so I got out So That's what They're For and she said it takes a few minutes... so like 3-5 and then it switches to hindmilk.

[Linnis]

Normally unless it's at night, most babies give other signs to hunger, making noise, chewing on their hands etc.

If he cries and I have checked the other problems and I offer the breast, if he only needs it for comfort, the sucking feels different. It's less forceful and slower and he spends his time looking up and mummy and stopping to smile at me.

My son has nursed on demand since birth and will until we introduce solids at around six months. He weighs about 14lbs now at 3.5 months. He's always gained weight well but he's a slender baby. If you are nursing on demand, then your baby is the size, they are meant to be. I know a lot of mothers where their breast fed babies quickly got to 20 lbs before 5-6 months but they they gained very little the second six months but got taller and thinner as they began to crawl, walk etc.

I read the first 3 chapters of babywise while at church during a Tornado watch last summer. I couldn't believe how they try and make it out like the baby is this cunning manipulative creature, out to trick you. Come on, they are babies. Many at church have offered Babywise, CIO and other ideas and I said I don't feel my baby should be *let* to cry. Or forced to wait for the 3 hours to be up to eat...if I can get hungry between meals so can he.

[illinoismommy]

Did you read an older version Linnis? :think Because I don't recall the cunning baby thing, but I've heard that before and I was thinking it was in an older or Christian version. The one I have is secular....

[Linnis]

I don't know how old the copy I read was. The cover was very plain Jane...and the pages has yellowed so it could have been.

[Soliloquy]

if I can get hungry between meals so can he.


That was always my point . . . the Ezzo books are all about the husband being king of the house and the baby should just try to fit in and not disrupt anything. :no2

[mom2threePKs]

Well...okay then I need to be educated. I don't know if I should start a new thread or what. I'm going to nurse, I read Babywise and I also read "The Baby Book" and "So That's What They're There For." So..hmm...Questions:

1. What does it mean when you have a 20lb 3month old, Eowyn? (or anyone can answer). I truly thought that was too heavy for that age, but I have no idea what is medically a concern and what is within the range of normal.
2. If you nurse on demand as much as baby wants to nurse, when does baby get hindmilk? :scratch This is weird; I read three books and don't know the answers to this?
3. So do I just offer to nurse when my infant cries? Or do you check their diaper first or see if they're too warm or cold? Or maybe just need to be snuggled? Hmm.....is there something I can read to get educated in the GCM way? I'm assuming the GCM way is pretty close to Dr. Sear's way (which I like, but still don't understand, obviously).
Thanks for taking a moment to answer any of my questions....this thread made me realize how clueless I am after reading books from such totally different views. I forget which parts are lies and which parts are truth. :/


I wanted to answer your questions as well because they are GREAT questions!!!!!

1. Growth charts and curves only tell us where an individual baby fits in relation to the rest of the population. So a 20 # 3 month old may be larger than 99.9% of his peers and still be normal for him. Growth charts are very useful for seeing variations. So if the baby in question had been in the 50th percentile and all of a sudden shot up off the charts it might be helpul to see if anything had changed, like weaning, early solids, etc. If he's always been big, then we just say that's normal for him and leave him be, especially if he's breastfeeding.
2. Most of the time the hindmilk/foremilk thing works itself out without too much interference from mom. If the baby is particularly gassy, feeding very very frequently, fussy and having green stools, mom can offer one side for a particular amount of time, perhaps 3 hours, then switch to the other side. This will help with foremilk/hindmilk issues. The biggest takehome lesson about fm/hm is that the baby should be allowed to nurse on one side until he decides he's done, then switch. Some nursing info says to monitor the feeding and only nurse for 10 minutes on the first side then siwtch and do 10 minutes on the other. :no2 Bad idea.
3. A mom and newborn are just getting to know each other. There will be times when you offer to nurse and realize the babyhas poop up his back from an exploded diaper. There will be times when you change the diaper and bounce and sing and then realize its been several hours since you nursed and the baby is starving. For a newborn nursing solves all sorts of ills. If they are cold, they warm up because they are close to you. If they need a snuggle, they get a snuggle. If they are insecure, they feel secure pressed up against your tummy. If they are overwhelmed, the world shuts out as they hear your breathing and feel your skin, and their field of view narrows. And of course if they are hungry, well, that just rocks! Once they get older they will let you know if nursing isn't the solution. They simply won't nurse. They'll arch and squirm, they'll cry, they may even bite! But they won't nurse if they don't want to. So should you just nurse every time the baby cries. Yeah, in the beginning it is a great way to get to know your newborn. It builds milk supply and helps you learn the baby's cues. There's no reason not to. If it doesn't work. :shrug On to another solution. If it does :smile, everybody's happy!!!!!!

:hug2 to you!!!!!

Magan

[illinoismommy]

There will be times when you offer to nurse and realize the babyhas poop up his back from an exploded diaper.


No.... that will never happen to me ;) :giggle

[kwisie]

I totally agree with your assessment. When I first read BW, I was a fairly new mom but had been exposed to other ideas first. I also had seen how badly it worked for two members of my family that had babies with terrible difficulties gaining weight due to over-scheduled feedings. My real reason for reading it was to be informed about what was in there, so I went at it with a rather critical mind, to be honest. Even though I was only very mildly AP at that point, I was horrified at how AP parenting was portrayed. I was also very horrified at the very manipulative tone of the whole book, especially the emotional manipulation. That is what drove me to places like ezzo. info and other resources that helped me keep my perspective. Actually, he tried so hard to show how horrible AP was that it in a way made me look further into AP - if he was so against it, there must be something to it. :giggle

[Beth1231]

To all the moms who took a moment to answer my questions and straighten out my confused thinking...THANKS :heart (and yes, mamamel, I'm five months pregnant with my first)

I want to comment on the "They make AP parents out to be bad" line of thought. Not only did I see this in BW and TW (bleah, that one is worse in my opinion) but I also saw subtle arrogance (because that's what it is) towards AP parents in the Dobson books I read as well. There is a :no sort of attitude in those books. When I see that smiling "no" smiley, it reminds me of a "they are so blind; poor deceived people" type of message. And I got that vibe from those books, definitely. And it came out in my thoughts when I babysat every week for a lovely AP family. At first I was like, "You let your four year old sleep in your bed...puh-leeze" and "you're going to let her get away with that" and so on. But that was honestly from my own upbringing and reading those books that put down AP parenting. Very interesting to realize why people may be less than tolerant. You never know what messages they have put in their minds and allowed to sink into their hearts.

[Soliloquy]

2. If you nurse on demand as much as baby wants to nurse, when does baby get hindmilk? :scratch This is weird; I read three books and don't know the answers to this?

From the reading that I've done, there has been research to show that the more frequently the baby nurses, the more "homogenized" mother's milk is. A baby that nurses ever 3-4 hours gets watery foremilk first, then super-rich hindmilk towards the end of the feeding. A baby that nurses every 1-2 hours get a tiny bit of foremilk, rich "middle" milk and a tiny bit of super rich hindmilk. A baby that nurses for a few minutes at at time, frequently throughout the day gets milk that is fairly consistent in fat content. Babies are more wise than Gary and Marie Ezzo. They know if they're getting a lot at each nursing. If they're not, they'll want to nurse frequently and this increases mom's supply. Also, moms that have overactive letdown (like I did with my first baby) can be prone to produce too much foremilk (like I did). Gracie nursed almost non-stop for months. She regulated my milk and she made sure that she got plenty of rich milk. There was one day where she nursed for 6 hours straight.

I don't have overactive let-down with my second and he nurses in a more "textbook" fashion, every few hours.

Both of my kids have been high on the charts and very healthy. My DH and I are both tall, so it's no surprise that they're bigger than "average."

[katiekind]

Janet, my guess is that the "cunning and manipulative" description comes from Ezzo's portrayal of the baby as being in an adversarial position to the parents (and vice versa, of course.)

For example, do you remember how Ezzo explains that babies should not be allowed to snack? He gives the impression that even young babies will certainly attempt to get the snackage going, and says if you give in, the baby certainly won't say no to it. He also describes a baby (only three weeks old, in the example he's discussing) who is not lining up with the book's feeding intervals as having an "uncooperative stance."

Of course it's pretty obvious that babies that young really don't take "stances" that are cooperative or uncooperative. They just have hunger pangs when they have them, and they start cuing involuntarily. It's simply a matter of their bodies being designed that way. It doesn't really need to be described in desparaging terms.

The snack paradigm is completely "off" for breastfed babies, since they aren't getting empty calories, but the perfect and easily digested food God designed uniquely for that individual baby in the amounts that are right for them and their momma's breasts. Hannah Grace...let me know if you need me to expand on that. I would be glad to! :shifty

[Beth1231]

1. What does it mean when you have a 20lb 3month old, Eowyn?  (or anyone can answer). I truly thought that was too heavy for that age, but I have no idea what is medically a concern and what is within the range of normal.

He was almost 26 inches at that age, too.  So just off the charts for weight and 97th percentile for height.

It also means he looked like this--with the roly poly legs :giggle:

<edited to remove pic due to posting guidelines>

Oh my goodness, what a sweetheart. Awwwww, I can't wait to hold my baby...

[siberian]

:cry :cry :cry Trying to follow this awful awful method caused my milk supply to dry up after only 3 weeks...but of course it must be because I didn't follow the method correctly ;)

[glassangel]

:cry :cry :cry Trying to follow this awful awful method caused my milk supply to dry up after only 3 weeks...but of course it must be because I didn't follow the method correctly ;)


:hug2

[heartsong]

I was pregnant the first time when I read this book and very honestly did not really know much of anything about BF. I had only seen one woman in my life bf and that was a friend of mine. Not knowing ANYTHING about bf I knew this book was ridiculous!!!! I gave it away. My aunt totaly believed in this book and used it for her kids. Now I have to say her kids are wonderful kids and very loving and repsectful but man I felt bad for them because of this.

[katiekind]

Not knowing ANYTHING about bf I knew this book was ridiculous!!!!

You have no idea how encouraging it is to hear that. :heart

[hink4687]

Here's what my son thought of the book   :giggle

<edited to remove pic book due to posting guidelines>

[Quiteria]

:nak want to come back and comment later :yawn

[glassangel]

:giggle

[Heather Micaela]

Hannah - I wish I had GCM before I found my first. Granted, I had been pre-warned about Babywise and seen it in action to my dismay :(. But I was alone in the breastfeeding department. The the best thing I learned with Joshua is to trust your mothering instints. I didn't know about hindmilk/foremilk really until my second one. And I didn't realize I had OAL until my third :shrug. All 3 are doing fine :)

[illinoismommy]

Not knowing ANYTHING about bf I knew this book was ridiculous!!!!

You have no idea how encouraging it is to hear that. :heart


But others manage to breastfeed their child on the schedule and go on do to their second child the same way. :/

[WI Mama05]

I didn't read the book until AFTER my 2nd DD was born and then only b/c my SIL was doing it. I tried to talk her "out" of it, but after reading it, I realized that they really make it look "good". I, however, know what I know, so the entire book was thinking "this guy's LYING to people!" "He's talking out BOTH ENDS here!" I was FURIOUS and now BOTH SILs are Ezzo-ing! I wish they knew what I know, or would at least open up to more information!

[Linnis]

At WIC on Monday I was given 4 month information. I didn't look at it until a few minutes ago when I was going through the mail.

They recommend babywise as a way to get 2-4 month olds to sleep through the night. They also recommend a similar firm scheduling routine to train the baby to sleep 8-10 hours every night.


Isn't it bad for babies to go 8-10 hours without eating, even if bottle fed? Like dehydration?

I ripped up the baby talk info. It annoyed me.

[Quiteria]

At WIC on Monday I was given 4 month information. I didn't look at it until a few minutes ago when I was going through the mail.


From WIC???? You need to talk with someone who can get that info pulled. I'm guessing it got snuck in at the local level, or state level, with no one checking other than the person typing it up. The AAP has issued statements against it. :no2 Call your state office and keep asking for supervisors until you get omeone concerned. Their goal is to PROMOTE breastfeeding so as to buy less formula. Whoever snuck that in is sabotaguing that goal without realizing it, so a memo needs to go out to pull that handout. :td

[katiekind]

Linnis, I'm curious: did the WIC information look like it was produced by your local WIC clinic, or did it look like something that might be distributed nationally? :mad

[Linnis]

Have you heard of Baby Talk? Every time I go to the doctor, WIC they have this annoying woman give out parenting info. I don't mind the free books but they are anti attachment parenting. Like I was told I'll kill my baby by rolling over on him in my sleep or that the sling will damage his spine.

They are supposed to promote reading and interacting with your kids but these women get nosy.

They printed up this information. Yet, they are WIC sponcered.

[illinoismommy]

Baby Talk got me since I delivered in that town, and they send me that newsletter. Something doesn't add up since I know they didn't recommend Babywise and in fact recommend against spanking and other practices like that. I still get their news letter.... about 2 year olds, or 2 1/2 year olds....

[Linnis]

I don't know then. I paper says not to force a pacifier if the baby doesn't want it as it won't promote them to sleep longer and to start with a flexible routine and get firmer as they get older. Just seems odd they say most babies can sleep 8-10 hours by four months if trained with a "firm schedule". :shrug

They don't promote spanking because of the whole never shake the baby thing, they tell you every single time.

[katiekind]

No, I don't know...I remember "Baby Talk" as a magazine.... It was more AP friendly than any other. But that was when my kids were little. Long time ago, now. :O

:scratch

[Mamatoto]

I got a free Baby Talk subscription for some reason along with the free formula samples sent to my house. I canceled Baby Talk because the articles were anti-bf and definitely formula pushing.

[Linnis]

I got a free Baby Talk subscription for some reason along with the free formula samples sent to my house. I canceled Baby Talk because the articles were anti-bf and definitely formula pushing.


Thanks, I was starting to think I was seeing things.

[siberian]

I am thoroughly convinced that Babywise backfires or self-destructs later on down the line! Ds was the perfect BW sleeper: started sleeping 8+ hours per night at 7 weeks old, with no CIO or nudging from me. That continued up until just before his 1st birthday. Since then he has only slept through the night a handful times...and he's almost 2 years old :violin!!! I would gladly have endured months of waking every few hours for an infant than what we have been going through for the past year; believe me, it is much harder to get a toddler back to sleep than an infant.

[ArmsOfLove]

Babywise NEEDS to manipulate in order to instigate the desired responseIsn't it ironic that Ezzo accuses babies of exactly what he is guilty of

[illinoismommy]

No, I don't know...I remember "Baby Talk" as a magazine.... It was more AP friendly than any other. But that was when my kids were little. Long time ago, now. :O

:scratch


Oh I don't think we are thinking of the same thing.... there is some local organization.... maybe I don't have the right name, but its not a magazine at all.....

[Linnis]

I'm talking about these photo copies hand outs...they have parenting advice etc

[heartsong]

Not knowing ANYTHING about bf I knew this book was ridiculous!!!!

You have no idea how encouraging it is to hear that. :heart



I am so glad I could encourage somebody LOL because lately it seems I am the one who needs all the encouragement.