Is it even possible?

[Chris3jam]

Is it even possibe to recover from being punitive and being around punitive people? Is that even possible? Will my kids recover *at all*? Will we as a family actually end up being civil towards each other? :bheart :bheart :bheart

[deena]

I don't have any experience with punitive families (thank you Lord) but I just wanted to say :hug and IMHO YES there is hope!!!

[Titus2Momof4]

I think it is possible, yes. Actually, I know it is because there are several here who came from punitive parenting and are doing awesome. I do think, though, that this would be made more difficult if your dh was not on board (tho there are many here who have dh's who aren't on board) but probably VERY hard to add to that being in a church family at least 3X per week, full of punitive minded people, people who are probably critiquing my every move, etc. :hug2

[Beth1231]

Sigh. Okay, with baby coming in six months this is a big thing on my mind, too. How do you go about using gentle discipline if you came from a very punitive home, church and school?? I can't very well leave my church full of great people, disown my loving family who has been amazing to me and my husband the last two years and stay on the internet all day for support! How does this work in reality?
I get tons of practice with the gentle discipline model at school, but I still find myself thinking "my child isn't going to do that;I'll resort to the S word before I allow my child to act that way." SO inspite of a work environment of very positive discipline.....the last 23 years of my life holds sway.
To the OP, I'm sorry I'm not giving good advice....I am just as wondering as you are about how to shake off the punitive mindset without hurting the people I love in the process.

[UltraMother]

:shrug

Can they recover if they think there's no problem?

[Beth1231]

Please forgive my emotional, pregnant rambling. I'm feeling better today. Back to the thread.

[Wonder Woman]

HannahGrace - be prepared for some BIG, BIG, BIG feelings as your soon-to-be-newborn enters the 'discipline age'.

It honestly was and is hard for me.

There are days when only the knowledge that it truly *is* the best, most Christlike way to raise my child has kept me going.

The older my son gets, though - the more I find that every time I'm tempted to be punitive, it's because he's triggered an old, unhealed emotion in me.

I am finding joy in being able to help him grow without those scars...and I'm finding healing each day that I choose Grace instead of pain. :heart

[Beth1231]

:happytears Thank you for taking a minute to respond! I really hate being ignored when I vent like that.

*big big sigh* It's really really hard because I LOVE my parents and I'm close to them both, but there is already this angry, defensive "I'm going to protect my baby" thing in BIG competition with "I'm not going to let my parents think I'm faililing or dont' love my child because I don't "discipline" him. This is going to be very hard. Thank you so much for your kind, gentle post. You just don't even know how much I needed it today.

[domesticzookeeper]

*big big sigh* It's really really hard because I LOVE my parents and I'm close to them both, but there is already this angry, defensive "I'm going to protect my baby" thing in BIG competition with "I'm not going to let my parents think I'm faililing or dont' love my child because I don't "discipline" him. This is going to be very hard. Thank you so much for your kind, gentle post. You just don't even know how much I needed it today.

:yes I totally understand, and I don't have kids yet :shifty

:hug

[Wonder Woman]

:hugheart to Hannah and Emily both!

And Hannah - be prepared to find out the closeness isn't as close as you think :shifty Seriously - they are going to have some big big feelings to work through too.

My parents did some horribly abusive things to me *in the Name of God*. So for me to totally reject that for Jaden is not only invalidating their opinion of themselves as parents, they see it as a deeper indicator that my soul is no longer right with God. :/

Makes for strained relationships all the way around!

I did have to tell my mom that we would discuss my parenting choices when Jaden was an adult, but not until then. I think the exact phrase was "You had your chance to mess me up. Now let me mess up Jaden my own way, ok? At least I'll be able to afford his therapy then!" :duck :giggle

And Chris - back to your original question...it depends on if you see me as being recovered or not :giggle

Seriously - I was raised extremely punitively. And I'm not punitive. At all.

As far as family harmony...not so much. :shrug It's hard to reconcile the violence with the non-violence...we usually just avoid each other. :/

[Chris3jam]

And Chris - back to your original question...it depends on if you see me as being recovered or not

Well, I hold you in great regard and see you as not only recovered but as a pretty much a miracle. So. . .are you saying my kids have a chance? And. . . will we see this *before* they are adults? Will we ever be the family that I had envisioned? Or will I always be messing up so much that it will be impossible? I struggle so much with myself. . .I don't want my kids to have to do that. But, we can't seem to break out of this. . . .pattern. Not all the way. It's like I'm in a dark pit, struggling to climb out, and I'm clawing and scrabbling, and my kids are at the top, looking down, laughing at me. And other people are with me, looking at me, saying, "Stay here! This is where you belong! This is the right and only Godly place to be!"

[Wonder Woman]

:yes I do believe your children have a chance. :hugheart

Honestly, and I'm saying this so gently, so PLEASE hear it that way! :hugheart I believe it will be harder for boys to break the cycle than girls. It's because where you are - the type of church you attend - they are the ones on top. They are the ones with all the power. And they are absorbing that message.

I know my brothers see *nothing* wrong with our shared childhood. The church encouraged them to be bullies. :bheart And I know your boys are receiving that message too - from everyone around them - it's a cultural thing.

But we do serve a God who loves to break chains, and they are have a very courageous mama to model truth to them. :hug

[CelticJourney]

I can't very well leave my church full of great people, disown my loving family.... stay on the internet all day for support! How does this work in reality?
The same awareness that brought you to this point will help you day to day. The biggest differenece is that you will have to make a conscious decision to put your baby first. I know that sound automatic, but the day will come when you are pressured, nicely or not, to do something that you don't want to do and you will have to remember who is the proirity. Leaving the baby in the nursery is usually the first big fight at church. You will hear "you need some time for yourself" and "she/he needs to learn now to do what is expected". Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the church nursery, IF your baby does well there and you feel comfortable. The clash is when the baby cries and the workers pressure - then you must make a decision and take a stand. Same goes for family - their desires can't clash with baby's needs - baby comes first. An example from my life, my in-laws only wanted to see my girls if they could have them at their house overnight. Huge big NO!, so they don't see them often.

You will have to be aware of the pressures that the church and family put on you and resist the self-preservation instict to 'just do it their way'. I have faith that you will be strong because you are being strong for your baby, not for yourself. My husbands family was not super punitive, but there was enough garbage going on that he is still working through it now. Every time he has a 'revelation' of how is past effects him now, he says 'it stops with me, it stops here'.

I get tons of practice with the gentle discipline model at school, but I still find myself thinking "my child isn't going to do that;I'll resort to the S word before I allow my child to act that way." SO inspite of a work environment of very positive discipline.....the last 23 years of my life holds sway.
Dh and I call that the OPK factor (other people's kids). Being the mother changes so much. Sometimes you will find that 'yes, your child is going to do that and now you will understand why' or 'no your kids won't do that because you are in tune with their personality and their needs and address them before a situation escalates. Another example: my 11 month old hits me in the face. Do I let him? Absolutely not, I take his hand and tell him 'no' and show him how to be gentle. Do I punish him? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You see I know exactly why he is doing this. My son is adopted and came home at 7.5 months. The only time he hits me in the face is when someone else has cared for him and I've been unavailable. There are only three other people who watch him: dh, my mom and his oldest sister (while I'm in the shower or something) and he is always happy during that time. It's his expression of mild seperation anxiety and the last thing I would want to do is put more space, rather than less between us.

[Beth1231]

Wow, so many good thoughts!
Jadensmom--you are an inspiration. However, I feel the need to point out that my family is very close and has been ever since the thread of physical punishment went out the window (around twelve years of age). Call it's God's grace, call it all of us making an effort, I don't know. But I do know that I'm very close with both of my parents and I can be pretty honest with them. I have not addressed the pain I remember with my dad, yet. I absolutely dread that day, but I know he will (for the most part) respect my choices.

Elcollins--I think "put the baby first" is going to have to become my mantra when I walk into my parent's home. Thank you for making that pretty clear for me. By the way, can't you spend the night with your two girls over at your IL's house?

Jadensmom--it's scary to think of my parents feeling invalidated by my parenting choices. Yikes. It sounds like I should start praying NOW about this and not wait till baby is born.

[CelticJourney]

By the way, can't you spend the night with your two girls over at your IL's house?

They want them 'alone'. It sends up big red flags to me along with other times they have indicated they would 'fix our children for us' when ironically, mine are the grandchildren with the least issues :shrug. They only live 20 min away and we attend the same church, so the 'sleep over' is no where near a necessity.

[Wonder Woman]

Jadensmom--it's scary to think of my parents feeling invalidated by my parenting choices. Yikes. It sounds like I should start praying NOW about this and not wait till baby is born.


you know, my parents are mired in punitive thinking - they even give 'parenting' classes of their own devices.

So if yours tossed punitiveness out the window, then you may have a much easier road ahead of you. :heart If they stopped of their own volition they may already see it as wrong. :tu

[Beth1231]

My mom has been a preschool teacher for a few years and so I believe she clearly sees there are other ways to raise children without using fear and indimidation. My Dad has changed a little bit. He understands that reacting in anger is wrong and when he decided that hitting his puppy was not the way to train him, I knew we were getting somewhere. It still won't be easy when he sees his little grandchild throw any kind of "tantrum" or demonstrate any kind of "rebellion" but we are slowly getting somewhere. Thank you, Jesus.

[fourbygrace]

This thread has been encouraging to me. I keep messing up every day and sometimes feel ready to give up on GBD. But I won't. I am just having a hard time focusing with the holidays and being busy. I will not give up even if I fail 1000 times!

It is much harder if your DH does not support you (mine is not really punitive, in fact, I think he is quite permissive and expects it to work) but neverless it is hard to have differing viewpoints.

:hug Don't give up!!

Blessings,
Mary