So, who are the people who compare kids to animals that need "trained?"

[poleidopy]

I have written many times about my friend whom I love, who completely disagrees w/me on parenting. She's awesome except when she starts asking me questions about my parenting and trying to convinve me (very passive-aggressively) to spank. So, she's always comparing kids to animals that need trained and also talking about the dog whisperer and how kids are the same, and quoting how the Bible says "to train a child...". :/ Anyway, I don't know what book she read or where she is getting her info, but it has to be from somewhere. I mean, people don't just come up with this kind of stuff on their own, right? So where did she get these ideas? And what can I say in response? Like when she compares kids to animals and stuff? I'm not so quick with answers when confronted, but if I think about it in advance I can be prepared, KWIM? (And bean-dip doesn't work. I really need good, solid ANSWERS. ) TIA for any advice/help/responses! :popcorn

[Katigre]

The people i know who train animals believe in only positive discipline/positive reinforcement for training their dogs and such and for them that has influenced their parenting to be GBD and not punitive :).

[Bonnie]

I think you're thinking of TTUAC, the Pearl stuff. Very high emphasis on animal training, although it's nothing most animal trainers would use. :sick

[Katiebug]

Sounds like Pearl stuff :sick2 Although, TBH, she may not have ever read Pearl and is just getting icky advice from family or other moms at church/playgroups. This stuff can permeate groups when most people haven't even read it.

[Atarah]

The pearls make the children/animal comparison.... though it is fairly prevalent in other circles, also

In response..... some possibilities....

People are not 'animals'. We are made in the image of the Most High God. He breathed the very life into our souls. He gave us (including children) free will - a gift he did not give to the animals. He gave man dominion over animals - subding the earth and all, but he didn't give man the same dominion over children.

And a raquelita and bonbonne mentioned, any animal trainer worth their salt doesn't use punitive methods with animals.

For my family, it has been a motivator for using gentle methods. My dh was a trainer for competition show dogs. When the issue of spanking our son came up, I was able to ask him, "Did you ever hit a dog when you trained them." He replied, "Of course not - if you do that, then the dog fears you. You need them to trust you to get them to follow your commands. The fear may work as a motivator in some situations, but long term it creates a not very useful dog." We KNOW that children aren't dogs, but that was a 'lightbulb' moment for my husband.

[mamaKristin]

Seriously, I think you need to set some rock solid boundaries with this woman. I know that isnt' what you are asking, but she sounds like she is going to push and push you until you "see the light" :no2

"my methods of discipline are not open for discussion" period. And if she brings it up, leave, hang up the phone, whatever. This constant picking at what you have chosed as the right way for your family is NOT an influence you need.

[CelticJourney]

We have an APed 90lb, highly driven, now-retired police dog that we trained under the supervision of a professional K9 trainer. To train a police dog for either 'first time obedience without allowing for intelliegent disobedience' or with physical punishment is a sure fire way to get either killed by the bad guy as your dog sits by thinking 'hey, he told me to sit here, so I sit' or bitten by you own dog when they can't take anymore garbage.

So if you reverse the analogy, why would I treat my children worse than my dog.

[hollybells]

Seriously, I think you need to set some rock solid boundaries with this woman. I know that isnt' what you are asking, but she sounds like she is going to push and push you until you "see the light" :no2

"my methods of discipline are not open for discussion" period. And if she brings it up, leave, hang up the phone, whatever. This constant picking at what you have chosed as the right way for your family is NOT an influence you need.


:yes :hug

And this ...

So if you reverse the analogy, why would I treat my children worse than my dog.

:tu :clap Exactly.

[mom2threePKs]

I would just add that having snappy informaiton for this woman assumes that if she just could see it your way she would leave you alone. It probably isn;t going to work like that because she's not interested in seeing it your way. She'sinterested in you seeing ither way. I'd encourage you to learn about animal training vs children cause its good info but use boundary setting to diffuse your friend. Until she comes ASKING YOU about your parenting info, it won't matter what you say, she'll still be pushy.

Magan

[greenemama]

:hug i also think that if she's this pushy and is ignoring your boundaries, she's not a good friend to have and you might want to consider not getting together or talking with her.

[Teacher Mom]

We have an APed 90lb, highly driven, now-retired police dog that we trained under the supervision of a professional K9 trainer. To train a police dog for either 'first time obedience without allowing for intelliegent disobedience' or with physical punishment is a sure fire way to get either killed by the bad guy as your dog sits by thinking 'hey, he told me to sit here, so I sit' or bitten by you own dog when they can't take anymore garbage.

So if you reverse the analogy, why would I treat my children worse than my dog.


I actually used to say this to people when our first child was born in regards to co-sleeping. We always had our german shepherds sleeping with us before we had children. Why would we let our dogs sleep with us, but not our children?????

Of course, my parents had the dog outside in a dog house, so they kinda missed the correlation! :shrug

But my one friend kinda got it. She used to think we were nuts with the dogs until she got one of her own. :-)

[abbiroads]

I didn't read everything, but..
I have had dogs. Punitive parenting DOES NOT work for them either.

[OpalsMom]

I would refer her to "Don't Shoot the Dog", which does talk about using modern behavioral techniques on people as well as dogs and other animals. It will recommend many gentle techniques and it is very explicit about how punitive techniques are a really bad idea no matter what you're trying to train.

People do come up with these ideas on their own, all the time.

[Threeblindmice]

The Pearls are cruel to animals and also to children. None of these methods are even considered legal for either animal or child. If you read more of the material, the Pearls have very negative additudes about animals. I have a real problem with that and I also needless to say they are not a safe reference for raising children.

[SusansBF]

Maybe you could Passively aggressively exclaim" Who is the dog whisperer?! He SPANKS dogs?!!" : ;)