what about these songs? re: obedience

[Beauty4Ashes]

Anyone ever sing this one (there may be more to it, but I can't remember the rest)

O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E, Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.

Or this one: Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus...but to trust and obey.

This one we used to sing at a Spanish Pentecostal church in CA. I used to really like it, but now I'm not so sure. I will write it out in Spanish first, then with the English translation. The first part, I think is mostly okay, but the chorus kind of bothers me.

Una vez orando le dije a mi Sen~or.
Tu el alforero y yo el barro soy
Modela mi vida a tu parecer,
Hazme como quieras, hazme un nuevo ser.

Me dijo No me gustas, te voy a transformar
Pero en el proceso te voy a hacer llorar
Porque por el fuego, porque por el fuego
Te voy a hacer pasar
Y en un vaso nuevo te voy a transformar.

Me dijo No me gustas, te voy a quebrantar
Y en un vaso nuevo te voy a transformar

Quiero una sonrisa cuando todo va mal
Quiero un alabanza en lugar de tu quejar
Quiero tu confianza en la tempestad
Y quiero que aprendas tambien a perdonar.

Translation:
One time when I was praying, I said to the Lord
You are the potter and I am the clay
Form my life in your image
Make me how you want, make me a new being

He said to me "I don't like you, I am going to transform you.
But in the process I am going to make you cry
Because I will make you pass through the fire
He said to me "I don't like you, I am going to break you
And I will make you into a new vessel.

I want a smile when everything is going wrong
I want your praises instead of your complaints
I want your trust in the midst of the tempest
And I want you to learn to forgive also.

I don't know, the last song doesn't sit right with me. Thoughts?

[stefslef]

WOW.

I wo uld never sing a song that told my kids Jesus didnt like them.

Yes, God hates sin, but he loves us! yikes!

[katiekind]

Doesn't sit right with me either, Tammy.

[mamaKristin]

:no2 the whole "Jesus doesn't like you" thing does not sit well with me

[hey mommy]

We used to sing the 'trust and obey' ones..

And yeah, that whole "Jesus doesn't like you" thing doesn't sit very well w/me either....

[cklewis]

I know the song writers for the first one. I went to school with several of their children, and one of their daughters is a neighbor (and the youngest dd just had her 5yo DD die unexpectantly at her birthday party two weeks ago. :candle :sad2 ).

It was the middle DD, however, that the song was written for. To teach her a lesson about first-time-every-time. :( I grew up singing that song. Sigh. . . .

Anyway, I find the song quite wrong, and I won't sing it to my sons. At all.

C

[Hermana Linda]

Hmmm... I've always liked that song.

I'd like to point out that when it says, "no me gustas" it does not really mean "I don't like you." It is just usually translated like that. What it really means is, "you don't please me." We often don't please God. And God does transform us, when we give Him permission to. And in the first part of the song, the singer IS asking God to remake and transform him/her. So, that is how I look at it. God loves us, but that does not mean that we are always pleasing to Him.

[JessicaTX]

The only song I've had a problem with is the kids one

I'm in-right, outright, upright, downright happy all the time. x2
Since Jesus Christ came in, and cleansed my heart from sin
I'm inright outright upright downright happy all the time.

Nobody is happy all the time, no matter what the circumstances! Unless there is something seriously wrong with them :P

[Katigre]

That last song is horrible! The first verse is ok, and the line "I want your trust in the midst of the tempest, I want you to learn to forgive" is fine. But 'i don't like you'???? SOOOOOO off theologically.

The first song is just kind of 'eh' but could become twisted/icky depending on how it is applied (if it's a works-righteousness/legalistic mindset then it's definitely bad).

The middle song I don't necessarily have a problem with - trusting Jesus and walking with Him in obedience is the way to happiness and contentment.

[Wonder Woman]

But in the process I am going to make you cry
Because I will make you pass through the fire

God doesn't *make* us feel bad :shrug Camille, do you have the original english lyrics to that?

[cklewis]

Camille, do you have the original english lyrics to that?

:no I just know "Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe. . . ."

Now I'll be humming it. . . .

C

[Hermana Linda]

But in the process I am going to make you cry
Because I will make you pass through the fire

God doesn't *make* us feel bad :shrug Camille, do you have the original english lyrics to that?


I think that song was originally written in Spanish. I have the CD, it's by Nena Leal and called El Alfarero. She does not have any credits by the titles of the songs, so I can only assume that she wrote them. :shrug

So, there is nothing in the Bible saying that God refines us in fire? :scratch I guess I'm confused. Maybe her theology IS off. :shrug

[Wonder Woman]

:yes I was thinking the 'obedience' song and the other one were the same...:doh

God does refine us, yes. :tu But not in the sense that 'I am going to make you cry', KWIM? God isn't a big bully (or a punitive parent :shifty) sitting up there thinking of ways to make us feel bad to teach us to act better.

He's a loving Father who carries us through the trials of life, provides reassurance and guidance, and comforts and nurtures us. :heart

[Mother Duck]

My 14mth old *loves* the song, Trust and Obey! She sits up and claps and tries to sing it! Has done for several mths! But, I only sing the chorus! The verse, "...while we do His good will, He abides with us still, and with all who will trust and obey." That just creeps me out! It so goes against the Bible which says "I will *never* leave thee nor forsake thee"! Not that He'll never leave us if we do his good will! ick!

[cklewis]

Oh you want the OBEDIENCE song lyrics? Sure. . . .

I can probably do it by heart. But for copyright reasons, here:

http:// www. middletownbiblechurch.org/spiritua/spirit8.htm

Look at the bottom. For the whole reasoning, read the whole thing.

C

[CelticJourney]

O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E, Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.
Or this one: Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus...but to trust and obey

I don't have any real issues with the first two. If I truly believe that God has a perfect plan for my life, then obeying his calling is the best way to show that belief - just like if my children believe that I love them and only want what is best for them, then they will listen to me. I don't think it reflects the 'first time, every time, with a happy heart' theology that Pearl and Ezzo dish out.

[cklewis]

O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E, Obedience is the very best way to show that you believe.
Or this one: Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus...but to trust and obey

I don't have any real issues with the first two. If I truly believe that God has a perfect plan for my life, then obeying his calling is the best way to show that belief - just like if my children believe that I love them and only want what is best for them, then they will listen to me. I don't think it reflects the 'first time, every time, with a happy heart' theology that Pearl and Ezzo dish out.


But look at the other sentiments:

We want to live pure, we want to live clean, we want to do our best.
Sweetly submitting to authority, leaving to God the rest.
Walking in the light, keeping our attitude right, on the narrow way.
For if we believe the Word we receive, we always will obey/

:td

C

[greenemama]

For if we believe the Word we receive, we always will obey/

that's the attitude of all of those songs -- if you DO this, then we know that you believe. it's all about placing doubt in a child's mind so that they're afraid enough to obey. :sad

[gentlemommy]

.

[something glorious]

camille, is that the church you grew up in? i am cracking up a little, as i hum along to all of these songs i sang as a kid....luckily for me no one ever used them to really try to frighten me into obedience. at least not that i can recall......

[cklewis]

camille, is that the church you grew up in?

:no but similar.

c

[Katigre]

So, there is nothing in the Bible saying that God refines us in fire? :scratch I guess I'm confused. Maybe her theology IS off. :shrug
There is a verse that talks about us being refined like gold in that present struggles/persecution/heartache are used by God to help us become better people. It is never used in the context of "I dont' like you/i want to make you cry/you're not good enough as you are" but rather in the idea of discipleship/spiritual growth and that there is a purpose and good can come out of pain we might go through.

[CelticJourney]

But look at the other sentiments:

Quote
We want to live pure, we want to live clean, we want to do our best.
Sweetly submitting to authority, leaving to God the rest.
Walking in the light, keeping our attitude right, on the narrow way.
For if we believe the Word we receive, we always will obey/

I was confused for a minute, because I knew that wasn't from 'Trust and Obey' (signed that at church last week) and then I went back to see where you had posted a link to the other parts of the song - I was only responding to the line in the op. It is a song that I haven't heard - apparently something I should be grateful for.

[cklewis]

apparently something I should be grateful for.

:yes

C

[Beauty4Ashes]

But in the process I am going to make you cry
Because I will make you pass through the fire

God doesn't *make* us feel bad :shrug Camille, do you have the original english lyrics to that?


I think that song was originally written in Spanish. I have the CD, it's by Nena Leal and called El Alfarero. She does not have any credits by the titles of the songs, so I can only assume that she wrote them. :shrug

So, there is nothing in the Bible saying that God refines us in fire? :scratch I guess I'm confused. Maybe her theology IS off. :shrug


Thank you for correcting me on the translation; my Spanish may be a bit rusty, though dh has been calling me to do interpretations for Spanish speaking patients. No me gustas, yes, that's true, it can mean "you do not please me" or something along those lines...

[Hermana Linda]

God does refine us, yes. :tu But not in the sense that 'I am going to make you cry', KWIM? God isn't a big bully (or a punitive parent :shifty) sitting up there thinking of ways to make us feel bad to teach us to act better.

He's a loving Father who carries us through the trials of life, provides reassurance and guidance, and comforts and nurtures us. :heart

I agree. It's just that I always understood it as that he would have to make us cry in the process of refining us. Somehow the song sounds much harsher in English. Especially with "no me gustas" translated as "I don't like you." I never understood it like that. In the song, she says that she is the clay and He is the potter and she asks Him to make her into His image. He responds that what she is now is not pleasing to Him and she needs to be broken, transformed and fired. That is the way it works with clay. :shrug And it is usually when we pass through trails and cry that God transforms us more into His image. That's just how it works.

[greenemama]

In the song, she says that she is the clay and He is the potter and she asks Him to make her into His image. He responds that what she is now is not pleasing to Him and she needs to be broken, transformed and fired. That is the way it works with clay. And it is usually when we pass through trails and cry that God transforms us more into His image. That's just how it works.

but i think the concern here is that the idea of God not liking us is not something we should be teaching our children, through song or anything else. :shrug

[Wonder Woman]

and, TBH - how can God *not* be pleased with a child of His? After all, I believe that when He sees us, He views us in robes whiter than snow, washed with His blood. :amen

It's the thought of God not being pleased with us and wanting to make us cry that I have problems with.

I'd much rather teach my son that as we go through life, trials and tests happen - and that God loves us so very much that He will carry us through - and that the trial will not break us, but that God's Grace will allow us to be even stronger on the other side.

It's like how the *same* action can be punitive (You didn't clean up your room when I told you to so you are NOT going to the park!) vs. non-punitive (We have guests coming over, and your room needs to be cleaned. We don't have time to go to the park now. Here, let me help you organize your toys so they are easier to put away next time.)

SWIM?

[Beauty4Ashes]

I like this chorus better:

Tu eres el alforero y yo soy el barro; moldeame Sen~or a tu imagen...

You are the potter and I am the clay; make me Lord into your image.

(Having a brain fart at the moment, that doesn't sound right in English, but I cannot think straight now on Thanksgiving day)

[Hermana Linda]

and, TBH - how can God *not* be pleased with a child of His? After all, I believe that when He sees us, He views us in robes whiter than snow, washed with His blood. :amen
Yeah, you're right.


It's the thought of God not being pleased with us and wanting to make us cry that I have problems with.

I understand. I never thought of it that way.

I'd much rather teach my son that as we go through life, trials and tests happen - and that God loves us so very much that He will carry us through - and that the trial will not break us, but that God's Grace will allow us to be even stronger on the other side.

Yeah, you're right. You know, that song is not a kids song, and we never sang it as a congregation. It is more of a personal testimony song. I was a bit surprised that Tammy's church sang it as a congregation. I get your point as how it is not appropriate to be teaching children. :grouphug

[gentlemommy]

.

[Beth1231]

I remember the first two. Lots of good points to ponder. I think it's so weird how these little punitive things trickle alllll through my childhood. Even songs from Christian school!

[Beauty4Ashes]

Camille, I couldn't open that link you sent, even reconnecting the broken link. Could you repost it?

ETA: Never mind, I found the other verses to O-B-E-D-I-E-N-C-E. First time obedience. I feel sad for the little girl it was written for.