Titus2Momof4
11-20-2006, 08:21 AM
Wasn't sure whether this should be here or in GD- feel free to move if needed.
I have been pondering some things for the past week or so, and have been meaning to write up a "journal" on this, but have not had time. I finally am done writing this, with many breaks in between LOL. I want to post this, though, for my own benefit (you know, talking through things, rambling, etc. LOL) but also for the benefit of others who may have been in my shoes, or may be on the fence, or may be spanking but secretly wishing they could get by with NOT spanking. I know that it isoften hard to even fathom not spanking, when you are spanking and the kids still seem like heathens, so you think how much worse this would be if you were NOT spanking.
As I have said several times before, this is not my first visit to GCM (visit meaning actively posting). I have tried GCM/GBD at least a couple times. Rather, I can remember a couple different usernames I have had, but I think that could have been due to the board re-vamping a couple years ago or something :think, because I can only recall posting here regularly once, but maybe I did before that, I dunno. My memory gets foggy going back more than a couple years LOL I do know, though, that we started our parenting journey out AP, then turned to spanking when the twins hit about 2.5. I know that when they were 4, and right before Noah was born, I was convinced to not spank anymore (actually, I just started hanging out on a healthy parenting list, and eventually it rubbed off on me I guess). Then when they were almost 5, we turned back to spanking, and then a few months ago, when they were almost 6 (somewhere around the beginning of August, b/c it was before we moved), we stopped. OK so I guess I do remember more than I thought! Mostly based on remembering what parenting we were practicing at different important events (a move, a birth, etc.) I just hope that history does not repeat itself anymore :blush It does help that this is the first time that my husband has been the one to suggest not spanking, so this time we are actually both on board- it can be hard when you want to not be spanking, but your own spouse is the one encouraging you to spank, or when the kids’ needs for discipline is causing strife, or when you are trying to not spank but your spouse actually IS spanking. He would say he is fine w/the no spanking, but when push came to shove and he was lost, he would spank. Eventually, I would end up back there too.
One of the things that I feel has also contributed, though, has been, looking back, in the past I have not been completely AP in my mindset/way of thinking. IOW, was trying to implement GD, while *thinking* punitively, I think. Let me give some examples:
I remember this distinctly because I remember that these couple of issues were the main things that I talked about to spankers when I ended up spanking again the last time. The first big issue was- one time we were in the Christian bookstore, and Abby and Lexi (who were then….4.5??) got upset about something, and threw themselves down on the floor in a meltdown (“fit”). The store was kind of quiet, as we were among the few people there. I was absolutely MORTIFIED, that 4.5 y/o’s would do this (this goes back to the tendency to expect more out of your oldest, just because they are the oldest, I think) I think I got in a huff, put down the stuff I had, and we all stormed out. We had been planning to take them to the park, and due to this, told them now they weren’t going. We decided to give them a chance- if they would go back in and apologize to the store personnel, they could still go. Well, they did, and we ended up going to the park. But overall, I was just livid that 4 .5 y/o’s would dare to do this.
Looking back on this *now*, I realize that we were essentially tying our hands to not spank, but still *thinking* in terms of punishment (not to mention, high expectations). If this were to happen today, say with my 4 y/o now, I would more than likely step outside w/her if her meltdown would not subside, and we would get to the bottom of this. I would also probably consider if she was tired, hungry, what have you, but in the end, if we had to leave we would leave. It happens to people sometimes :shrug. I see that taking away the park was definitely an arbitrary consequence, especially since I have a hard time taking away “outside running around time”, since I feel that kids REALLY REALLY need that. And in our case, at that time, we lived in an apt, and the kids could go DAYS and days w/o getting outside. But also, this was just one of those incidents, where you get through the moment, and move on. No need to dwell on it, really. Work at better behavior next time, perhaps with reminders before going in, or something.
Another thing that was a huge deal was our bedtime struggles. The kids would NOT get quiet and go to sleep at night. We were separating all three of the girls. They were still in the doorways of the rooms they were in, and laughing, playing, etc. Of course making us even MORE angry. They did not fall asleep until 10-11 and that made us sooooo upset (when they were put to bed at around 8). Looking back, there again, these kids were not getting regular outside/run around time, so they were probably just bursting with energy. But on top of that, the rules were just too much- expecting them to go in there and be absolutely SILENT and fall asleep. When we started spanking again, we began to “train” them (well, ME, rather- dh never wanted to do this), by sitting outside the door, paddle in hand, watching them, just waiting for someone to make a move. Months and months of this went on *sigh* and still it was the only way to get them to go to sleep. Well, fast forward to nowadays- I remember posting these woes here, too. It was suggested to me to not insist that they be SILENT when they are in there. Also we had figured out to remove the culprit (Loralai) who causes the most commotion, and so to this day she falls asleep on the couch beside me at bedtime. Amazingly since I quit insisting that they be silent, this isn’t an issue anymore. They talk, etc for a bit, and then fall asleep. As long as I can’t HEAR them, they are not bothering me (if I can hear them, then they are being too rowdy). :shrug
Well, this has really just been one of those “ponderings” type of things- probably better suited to be in a blog, if I was tech savvy enough to figure these “blog” things out :blush. I tried having one once, but couldn’t figure the darned thing out! Anyway, I am really hoping that history will not repeat itself. This time I am actually spending a great deal of time at the board (maybe too much….:shifty) in not only reading and learning, but also posting MY specific issues, and have gotten some great advice. I find that it also does not help much in trying to GD, if you are posting your problems on punitive lists, and not on GD lists (another thing that I think contributed to going back to spanking) I may have posted a couple issues here before, but never all my issues that I needed help with, and never ONLY this board (punitive e-lists too, I guess for advice on both sides of the fence to see what would work??) Not sure why I would do that (in hindsight) other than to try out several avenues to deal with things.
Anywho… I thought perhaps this musing might help someone, especially if they are on the fence about spanking/gentle discipline. I know there are others here who used to spank too, and I really like reading their posts especially, because they have worked through the same mental exercises/paradigm shift as I am working through. This would be a pretty neat thread, too, if others would contribute- reading these types of posts is always encouraging to me at least.
I have been pondering some things for the past week or so, and have been meaning to write up a "journal" on this, but have not had time. I finally am done writing this, with many breaks in between LOL. I want to post this, though, for my own benefit (you know, talking through things, rambling, etc. LOL) but also for the benefit of others who may have been in my shoes, or may be on the fence, or may be spanking but secretly wishing they could get by with NOT spanking. I know that it isoften hard to even fathom not spanking, when you are spanking and the kids still seem like heathens, so you think how much worse this would be if you were NOT spanking.
As I have said several times before, this is not my first visit to GCM (visit meaning actively posting). I have tried GCM/GBD at least a couple times. Rather, I can remember a couple different usernames I have had, but I think that could have been due to the board re-vamping a couple years ago or something :think, because I can only recall posting here regularly once, but maybe I did before that, I dunno. My memory gets foggy going back more than a couple years LOL I do know, though, that we started our parenting journey out AP, then turned to spanking when the twins hit about 2.5. I know that when they were 4, and right before Noah was born, I was convinced to not spank anymore (actually, I just started hanging out on a healthy parenting list, and eventually it rubbed off on me I guess). Then when they were almost 5, we turned back to spanking, and then a few months ago, when they were almost 6 (somewhere around the beginning of August, b/c it was before we moved), we stopped. OK so I guess I do remember more than I thought! Mostly based on remembering what parenting we were practicing at different important events (a move, a birth, etc.) I just hope that history does not repeat itself anymore :blush It does help that this is the first time that my husband has been the one to suggest not spanking, so this time we are actually both on board- it can be hard when you want to not be spanking, but your own spouse is the one encouraging you to spank, or when the kids’ needs for discipline is causing strife, or when you are trying to not spank but your spouse actually IS spanking. He would say he is fine w/the no spanking, but when push came to shove and he was lost, he would spank. Eventually, I would end up back there too.
One of the things that I feel has also contributed, though, has been, looking back, in the past I have not been completely AP in my mindset/way of thinking. IOW, was trying to implement GD, while *thinking* punitively, I think. Let me give some examples:
I remember this distinctly because I remember that these couple of issues were the main things that I talked about to spankers when I ended up spanking again the last time. The first big issue was- one time we were in the Christian bookstore, and Abby and Lexi (who were then….4.5??) got upset about something, and threw themselves down on the floor in a meltdown (“fit”). The store was kind of quiet, as we were among the few people there. I was absolutely MORTIFIED, that 4.5 y/o’s would do this (this goes back to the tendency to expect more out of your oldest, just because they are the oldest, I think) I think I got in a huff, put down the stuff I had, and we all stormed out. We had been planning to take them to the park, and due to this, told them now they weren’t going. We decided to give them a chance- if they would go back in and apologize to the store personnel, they could still go. Well, they did, and we ended up going to the park. But overall, I was just livid that 4 .5 y/o’s would dare to do this.
Looking back on this *now*, I realize that we were essentially tying our hands to not spank, but still *thinking* in terms of punishment (not to mention, high expectations). If this were to happen today, say with my 4 y/o now, I would more than likely step outside w/her if her meltdown would not subside, and we would get to the bottom of this. I would also probably consider if she was tired, hungry, what have you, but in the end, if we had to leave we would leave. It happens to people sometimes :shrug. I see that taking away the park was definitely an arbitrary consequence, especially since I have a hard time taking away “outside running around time”, since I feel that kids REALLY REALLY need that. And in our case, at that time, we lived in an apt, and the kids could go DAYS and days w/o getting outside. But also, this was just one of those incidents, where you get through the moment, and move on. No need to dwell on it, really. Work at better behavior next time, perhaps with reminders before going in, or something.
Another thing that was a huge deal was our bedtime struggles. The kids would NOT get quiet and go to sleep at night. We were separating all three of the girls. They were still in the doorways of the rooms they were in, and laughing, playing, etc. Of course making us even MORE angry. They did not fall asleep until 10-11 and that made us sooooo upset (when they were put to bed at around 8). Looking back, there again, these kids were not getting regular outside/run around time, so they were probably just bursting with energy. But on top of that, the rules were just too much- expecting them to go in there and be absolutely SILENT and fall asleep. When we started spanking again, we began to “train” them (well, ME, rather- dh never wanted to do this), by sitting outside the door, paddle in hand, watching them, just waiting for someone to make a move. Months and months of this went on *sigh* and still it was the only way to get them to go to sleep. Well, fast forward to nowadays- I remember posting these woes here, too. It was suggested to me to not insist that they be SILENT when they are in there. Also we had figured out to remove the culprit (Loralai) who causes the most commotion, and so to this day she falls asleep on the couch beside me at bedtime. Amazingly since I quit insisting that they be silent, this isn’t an issue anymore. They talk, etc for a bit, and then fall asleep. As long as I can’t HEAR them, they are not bothering me (if I can hear them, then they are being too rowdy). :shrug
Well, this has really just been one of those “ponderings” type of things- probably better suited to be in a blog, if I was tech savvy enough to figure these “blog” things out :blush. I tried having one once, but couldn’t figure the darned thing out! Anyway, I am really hoping that history will not repeat itself. This time I am actually spending a great deal of time at the board (maybe too much….:shifty) in not only reading and learning, but also posting MY specific issues, and have gotten some great advice. I find that it also does not help much in trying to GD, if you are posting your problems on punitive lists, and not on GD lists (another thing that I think contributed to going back to spanking) I may have posted a couple issues here before, but never all my issues that I needed help with, and never ONLY this board (punitive e-lists too, I guess for advice on both sides of the fence to see what would work??) Not sure why I would do that (in hindsight) other than to try out several avenues to deal with things.
Anywho… I thought perhaps this musing might help someone, especially if they are on the fence about spanking/gentle discipline. I know there are others here who used to spank too, and I really like reading their posts especially, because they have worked through the same mental exercises/paradigm shift as I am working through. This would be a pretty neat thread, too, if others would contribute- reading these types of posts is always encouraging to me at least.