I need to know

[TrinMama]

maybe this goes in the sleep forum, if so, i'm A-OK with it being moved.

I need to know WHERE and FROM WHOM did the idea of "cry-it-out" come from? I mean, not the let them cry 5, then 10, then 15 minutes idea, the "put them in bed and walk out of the room shutting the door" idea, where you just LEAVE THEM and don't check on them? I need to know so I can be full of info to hand to dh, who seems to think it is the ONLY way to get dd sleeping. :banghead

[Mamatoto]

I don't know if the idea came from him but it is called "Ferberizing" from Ferber.

[allisonintx]

Before that Dr. Oracle recommended it.

[Jeanette598]

I think Ferber advocates "progressive" leaving--for five minutes, then ten, etc. I've never read his book(s) but I'm not sure he promotes just leaving and not coming back.

Sadly, I read that idea in a Focus on the Family book--Baby & Child Care. I don't imagine they originated it, but I was horrified that they repeated it. :td

[Titus2Momof4]

Is your dh on board w/AP? I know that I used to see that recommended a lot on a hyper-punitive message board, but I don't think that they "invented" it, I think they picked it up somewhere. I know that the "idea" behind this (per them) was pretty much that by going in every 5,10, 15 mins was "false hope" basically to the baby, so they would be better off if you just didn't go back in. :td

[katiekind]

When I was a baby, Dr. Spock was the guru. This was in 1958. My mother learned from Dr. Spock that I should be put in a separate room and left to cry for however long it took til I exhausted myself and fell asleep. She is 70 now and remembers the night she and my dad did this. She recalls that I was 6 weeks old, and that in their miniscule apartment, the only separate room they could put me in was the bathroom, which was ceramic tiled on the floor and up the walls, so my first tentative "where's mommy" cry rang off those tiled walls in the night and startled me into a terrified cry, and that I screamed and screamed and screamed, and she and my dad lay in the other room, stiff as boards, in agony, but being young and me being their first baby, they did not realize it would be ok to defy Dr. Spock.

My mother is not a crier and she choked up when she related this to me a few years ago. :bheart

I'm going to add a little more. I can remember being spanked for coming back out of my room at toddler and other young ages, up to early elementary ages. I remember just getting worked into a terrified state in the dark by myself and all I knew was that I needed to be where my dad and/or mom was.

As a parent I also remember how hard these issues are at the end of the day when you're spent, tired, and have already given all you have to give, and the children want more.

At times like that with my own children, I would sit on their beds or lie beside them and sing to them. My mind could go blank while I hummed or sang to them and stroked their hair. I think of the options available to a worn out Christian parent, that's a pretty good one. You can be Christ's hands to your lonely little child, and still be at rest.

I'm sorry you're having conflict over this. I hope you can find a peaceful and loving solution for all. :pray

[Titus2Momof4]

I'm going to add a little more. I can remember being spanked for coming back out of my room at toddler and other young ages, up to early elementary ages. I remember just getting worked into a terrified state in the dark by myself and all I knew was that I needed to be where my dad and/or mom was.

What is sad about this is that, as I am learning by reading Your 6 Y/O, young kids really *do* have these fears of the dark and other such things. But many punitive parents (including me, the way I used to view my kids) think that the kids are just stalling or whatever. Sure there are times when 5-6 y/o's "stall" in trying to go to bed..... but fear of the dark is a very common very real fear at this age. I now take my kids seriously when they tell me they are scared in the dark, or they heard a noise (nature outside) or whatever. I realize that at this age, they really are often afraid of these simple, silly things, and I take it seriously.

[TulipMama]

Before that Dr. Oracle recommended it.

*grin*


(That's a reference to the LM Montgomery books, btw. . . And the Anne series, especially "Anne's House of Dreams" and on is full of wonderful mommy-inspiration. :heart )

[Katherine]

I was talking to my grandmother about this last night. She's 94. :heart

She was telling me about how her doctor gave her a book about babies when she had her first (which was probably around... that she didn't have any family near her and she was by herself (my grandfather was away at school), so she followed the advice in it... which included leaving the baby to cry himself to sleep. :bheart She regrets it to this day, and by the time her next baby (my father) came along, she had determined to snuggle him, rock him, hold him, nurse him, and babytalk him just as much as she wanted. :) She was horrified to hear that there are still people out there reccommending CIO. :td

This philosophy is not confined to just a few authors, or a particular generation. :neutral I don't remember what, but I've seen exerpts from the stuff written in the 1800s that promoted the same idea. With that in mind, I wouldn't try to debunk one particular author, but rather address all the problems (practical and philosophical) inherent in the general philosophy of CIO, and the benefits of responding to a baby's needs, even at night. :tu

dh, who seems to think it is the ONLY way to get dd sleeping.

:think Does he really think there are hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of older children and adults out there who don't sleep b/c they were never left to CIO? :hunh :scratch ;) I'm sure he doesn't ;), and he just wants to find a way to get her to go to sleep *now* at the point in time each evening when he WANTS her to go to sleep. When you really *think* about CIO, you can separate it out into

1) the illogical exaggeration ("She'll NEVER learn to go to sleep if we don't do this!") and
2) the unreasonable expectations (expecting another person of any age to go to sleep just because they're told to, and expecting a young child to suppress or otherwise maturely cope with her fear and lonliness when left alone at night)

Those are 2 very weak legs to stand on. It's a bit of a jolt and quite disconcerting to realize as parents that something we are doing for what we suppose are spiritual, moral, social, and healthful reasons is really not furthering any of those causes. Once we SEE the truth and can look past those illegimate reasons, we realize that the only reason for us to continue a harmful practice is our own selfishness or convenience. And that's the point where many loving parents are willing to step back and say, "I won't do this. I will find another answer. I will do what's good for my child, and I know now that this is not it." Maybe continued conversation will help your dh get to this point. :heart :hug

[TrinMama]

DH is on board with AP. He admitted he wants a quick fix, and thought CIO would do it. He's starting to think differently, after I spoke with our ped today and after I emailed him different threads of sleep-deprived parents in the same situation we are. He's not pushing it anymore :phew

[katiekind]

How lovely! My husband used to come from his day of working and share with me what various people had freely dispensed as parenting advice. He didn't have the same filter for it that I had developed and only wanted to make sure we were doing the best thing for our child. :heart

One thing I was thinking about with this cry it out business is that part of catching the vision is seeing the beauty of service, even sacrificial service, and then recognizing that sitting by the bed of a scared toddler or lying down with him or her is one of those opportunities. The vision is that we'll be the kind of people who have open doors for those in need, who don't turn our backs on a neighbor in distress. The vision is that we serve Christ by serving our neighbor, and our little ones are our very nearest neighbors. One hopeful outcome is that if our children have a problem in later years, perhaps they'll know they can always come to us about it.

[Chris3jam]

http://www.amazon.com/Our-Babies-Ourselves-Biology-Culture/dp/0385483627

This book could probably answer a lot of questions.

[allisonintx]

FWIW, I was left to CIO and two of my dd's were, too. Guess who are the only people in my house who have chronic insomnia? Oh, yes, that would be the three of us. The children who were rocked and snuggled to sleep are AMAZING sleepers. Yes, it took them more years to go to sleep on thier own, but they can just 'lie down and go to sleep' where the girls and I have to read and work it to get to sleep.

[TrinMama]

FWIW, I was left to CIO and two of my dd's were, too. Guess who are the only people in my house who have chronic insomnia? Oh, yes, that would be the three of us. The children who were rocked and snuggled to sleep are AMAZING sleepers. Yes, it took them more years to go to sleep on thier own, but they can just 'lie down and go to sleep' where the girls and I have to read and work it to get to sleep.


very interesting....thankfully dh is back to letting me do what i feel is best. and as much as i like sleeping a straight 8 hours, i know that i'm a mama and that ain't gonna happen for years. LOL. not until we're done having babies. ;) plus, i cope much better with interrupted sleep than he does.

[Mamatoto]

Allison, that is really interesting. You should start a poll on that...