"Created to be his Helpmeet"

[Morning Glory]

First off, I am brand new to GCM and don't know many other women who follow these opinions (GCM) Most of my friends are like me--we just do what feels right. I wish I found this site when I had newborn/infants. I never knew what I was doing had a definition.

I have never read anything of the Pearls and only know of them from this site. Are you against this book because it was written by a Pearl? Having said that, I have been told this book is wonderful and a must-read.

thanks in advance.

[DogwoodMama]

I have never read anything of the Pearls and only know of them from this site. Are you against this book because it was written by a Pearl? Having said that, I have been told this book is wonderful and a must-read.

thanks in advance.


I would say that many, many, many people, not just ladies here at GCM have major concerns about both the advice and theology presented in this book. Here's a link that has even more links to past discussions on this issue. I would NOT recommend this book at all. :no Definitely check out the blog links, especially the first one!

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=72531.0

HTH! :)

[Morning Glory]

Thank you!!!

very informative. I think I will stay the course I am on--great communication with my lovely husband.

[Rbonmom]

No, it's not just because he's Pearl. I've been hearing all kinds of chruches sing the praises of this book, but it has some major flaws. I shared a website with my mom when her bible study group was wanting to do it, and even though they are punitive they were like :jawdrop when they read some of the stuff.

[Titus2Momof4]

The jist of the book:
~the marriage is, essentially, in your (wife) hands
~your dh falls into one of four categories: Mr Command, Mr. Visionary, Mr Steady, or Mr. something or other
~no matter what, no matter how your hubby treats you, no matter what it is he wants or wants to do (with the exception of "sodomy" as they refer to...hmm...you figure it out...and btw I totally :rolleyes at that.), you DO it. she holds high a story of a woman whose husband cheated on her, was out all night many nights, etc...but this wonderful gem cooked him his favorite meals, rubbed his feet when he was home, etc. this is the way we should be. (*note*-if this 'wonderful gem' is you, then that's admirable, and more power to you, but to say that anyone in that situation should do that is wrong, imo)
~essentially, whatever dh wants, dh gets, and you have to know what 'type'your dh is to know how to respond to him-either way he gets what he wants, but knowing his type will help you figure out how to tell him this.

Now, that being said--I did think that the 3 or 4 types of men was kinda neat-my own dh would be a mixture of all of them though :giggle And, I like the idea of submission to our hubbies, since I feel that is scriptural-I just don't think (as my impression of CTBHHM) that it has to be at the sacrifice of anything YOU want, if that makes sense. IOW, I feel like she takes the biblical mandate to the Nth level, if you kwim. Anyway, that was my impression of the book....others may feel differently. Overall, I don't think it's "evil", but I don't really care that much for it overall. It has enough bad in it to make me say, find another book to read. :)

[erinee]

:crazy2

[KitKat]

Well, I read it, and honestly, I thought it was "the most wonderful book." For the longest time. The problem with that book, is the same as the problem with their parenting books. It gives you gaurantees, "if you do_____, then you will get _____". And for some people having problems, it is the instruction manual you are looking for in a time of need. The main problem with this is that you don't always get a perfect marriage by following her instructions. When this happens, this book makes you feel as if YOU did something wrong, YOU were sub-par, YOU need to fix the problem.

AND, she takes it to such a level that even if your husband is abusive to you OR the children, it is YOUR responsibility to change. NOT HIS!! So, just as their parenting books read like manuals on child abuse, this reads like a manual on how to get into an abusive marriage. It tears you down enough that you would willingly stay in a relationship that allows your husband to abuse you, and you would be wondering what YOU kept doing wrong.


Now, from my point of view (believing in submission), a better book is The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. It is the same principles of submission and caring for your husband, but not to the degree that Debi Pearl goes to. I know some people don't like this book either, but for me, it was much better than CTBHHM.

[hsgbdmama]

In another nutshell:

* Everything wrong in your marriage is YOUR fault. No matter what -- if he has porn addictions, fidelity issues, substance abuse -- you're just not doing your job as a wife and obviously aren't giving him enough lovin' in the sack, honey! :rolleyes
* Most things can be solved with a smile, a wink and a roll in the sack. (Goes along with their "happy and obedient" philosophy.)
* Dangerously raises the man to an almost infallible position (you are never to question his decisions or point anything out to him -- even when you have direct knowledge that his decision is wrong -- BUT, remember when things do go wrong, that's YOUR fault!).
* Michael Pearl, in his part, advocates "some" abuse (p. 263). :td :no2
* Draws some pretty wild conclusions (i.e., women who basically spend more time with their female friends than their husbands will create desires for women :hunh ) without providing one iota of research evidence.

Overall, just bad, bad theology. They are not the only game in town, and there is better advice to be found elsewhere! :yes

[Titus2Momof4]

Well, I read it, and honestly, I thought it was "the most wonderful book." For the longest time. The problem with that book, is the same as the problem with their parenting books. It gives you gaurantees, "if you do_____, then you will get _____". And for some people having problems, it is the instruction manual you are looking for in a time of need. The main problem with this is that you don't always get a perfect marriage by following her instructions. When this happens, this book makes you feel as if YOU did something wrong, YOU were sub-par, YOU need to fix the problem.

AND, she takes it to such a level that even if your husband is abusive to you OR the children, it is YOUR responsibility to change. NOT HIS!! So, just as their parenting books read like manuals on child abuse, this reads like a manual on how to get into an abusive marriage. It tears you down enough that you would willingly stay in a relationship that allows your husband to abuse you, and you would be wondering what YOU kept doing wrong.

Yep, that's about what it's about. And the funny thing is, the only time I remotely could tolerate her book was when I was into punitive parenting (because a particular group of ladies I knew just simply fawned all over this book, and that was that cookie cutter answer to any problems about marriage--"Have you read CTBHHM?" or "Go re-read CTBHHM!" :rolleyes I remember reading on a list once where a woman had major issue w/her dh's choosing to smoke pot over his family (wife had given ultimatum, etc.) This list of ladies had someone-big CTBHHM book fan-who even suggested finding a country where pot was legal and considering moving there, for her hubby. :eek So that's kinda the mentality that the book seems to breed, imo....I felt this poster's response was typical of fans of this book. (now watch, there will be some fan of the book here who will just :duck)

[Treenahurricane]

I have read portions of the book online (I have no desire to bring the book itself into my home-- just the ladies at my MOPs group who have felt the need to read it outloud at get-togethers has made me sick to my stomach enough). Some of the portions of it are on their website, as well.... Debbie Pearl declares her husband righteous and without sin. M Pearl says that if your husband hits you and a red mark doesn't remain for at least two hours, it's not abuse and you need to allow it because you deserve it. If your husband rapes your children it is acceptable and you are to continue to allow him to stay in the home because that is what would be because because divorce under any circumstance is something God hates and if you were to leave your husband over abuse or rape, you would essentially remove yourself from the reaches of God's salvation.

[Gentle Journey]

:hiding
It did wonders for our marriage when I followed a lot of what I read in it. the best advice was to smile at DH when ever you look at him. Soon my DH was even smiling at me :heart There was definantly questionable things, but no book is perfect. I tried to impliment a lot of what it said aside from child training and taking out the trash, sorry, but that is DH's duty.

[Gentle Journey]

I have read portions of the book on line (I have no desire to bring the book itself into my home-- just the ladies at my MOPs group who have felt the need to read it outloud at get-togethers has made me sick to my stomach enough). Some of the portions of it are on their website, as well.... Debbie Pearl declares her husband righteous and without sin. M Pearl says that if your husband hits you and a red mark doesn't remain for at least two hours, it's not abuse and you need to allow it because you deserve it. If your husband rapes your children it is acceptable and you are to continue to allow him to stay in the home because that is what would be because because divorce under any circumstance is something God hates and if you were to leave your husband over abuse or rape, you would essentially remove yourself from the reaches of God's salvation.


Really, where did you read. I was under the impression that they believed a wife should take the children to safety AWAY from any contact with her husband. Infact, I'm certain....I'll look it up.

Ok pg 266 says

"We told her to call the law, so they could set up a time to catch the sodomites at the rest stop, including her husband. She did. Her husband is in the slammer for a number of years and the kids are growing up without a pervert for a daddy. Sometimes it's a grave sin NOT to stand against your husband"

The next page also talks about putting your DH is jail. TBH, I agree with putting your DH in jail without divorce. Not in the case listed above, but in many situations. A marriage is a vow with God to be married under all circumstances. The only given reason out is sexual immorality. If your DH is abusive, but not sexually, I think jail is prefferable to divorce.

I do not agree with some of what the book says, like child training and that a man should do NOTHING around the house. I think it's a man's responsibility to take the trash out, fix broken things, etc. But I do agree with wife submission as long as it isn't sin. I know if I did that, my marriage would get better just as it did when I implemented some of the things from the book last year. The best advice in there is to smile when DH smiles at you. DH even started smiling back and saying "I love you" more. :heart

[Joanne]

A marriage is a vow with God to be married under all circumstances. The only given reason out is sexual immorality. If your DH is abusive, i think jail is prefferable to divorce.

How is abuse fulfilling the marriage vow under God?

[Gentle Journey]

A marriage is a vow with God to be married under all circumstances. The only given reason out is sexual immorality. If your DH is abusive, i think jail is prefferable to divorce.

How is abuse fulfilling the marriage vow under God?


darn, i was just coming to re edit cause I dont feel like getting into today. Too late now, lol.

Our obedience to God doesn't depend on someone else. I vowed to God to be married to my DH til death do us part. I didn't vow to God that I'd stay married to DH until he breaks his vows.

[Joanne]

darn, i was just coming to re edit cause I dont feel like getting into today. Too late now, lol.

Our obedience to God doesn't depend on someone else. I vowed to God to be married to my DH til death do us part. I didn't vow to God that I'd stay married to DH until he breaks his vows.

As a Christian mom recently divorced over abuse (and other) issues, I also need to "not get into this".

I find the Pearls' so called scriptural advice on those topics to be as, if not more, abusive as the husbands they talk about.

[Morning Glory]

That is a very interesting POV. I have never though of marriage vows in that manner. I did give my vow before God,
Hmmmmm. interesting food for thought.

[Gentle Journey]

darn, i was just coming to re edit cause I dont feel like getting into today. Too late now, lol.

Our obedience to God doesn't depend on someone else. I vowed to God to be married to my DH til death do us part. I didn't vow to God that I'd stay married to DH until he breaks his vows.

As a Christian mom recently divorced over abuse (and other) issues, I also need to "not get into this".

I find the Pearls' so called scriptural advice on those topics to be as, if not more, abusive as the husbands they talk about.




I dont agree with the Pearls on most things and has nothing to do with them. This is the way I understand scripture. I'm responsible for my choices, my vows and my actions apart from my DH's. I truly dont want to hurt you or debate your individual situation. I hold firm in my beliefs and I'm sure you feel you made the right decision. I'm not really sure of everything that happend in your marriage and it's not my place to judge you anyway. :hug

[Treenahurricane]

Directly from their website:
"But if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, "What if he doesn’t repent even then?" Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil’s face. God hates divorce—always, forever, regardless, without exception."
Problems I have with this advice:
1) Obviously before you were aware that your husband had raped your children, you believed them to be safe. Because you are a human, not God, you cannot know if he is truly repentant or simply repentant in word, not truth. How can you assure your safety if you remain in the same household.
2) Average stay of a pedophile in jail is a mere 3 years, not 10-20. Those who have been previously convicted of such acts are also likely repeat offenders as has been shown repeatedly by the law.
3) You may have raised your own children, but what of other people's children? What of grandchildren? How can you be sure that he is truly repentant of the sin and seeking to never do that again, rather than sneaking around in private?
4) The idea that God needs something to rub in the Devil's face is faulty theology. Our God created Satan and is all powerful. Satan is not.
5) They state that God hates divorce under any circumstance, however, scripture speaks of more than one situation where divorce is not the best solution, but permissible-- adultry & being yoked to an unbeliever.
6) While that book speaks over and over and over again about a wife's need for submission, it is proof-texting. To solely focus on God's requirment that a woman submit to her husband, but to ignore that God also says that the husband should submit to his life likewise as Christ even gave himself up to death for the church is a very skewed version of our God and how a marriage should be balanced. To place sole responsibility on one spouse is not how the balance was intended.

In addition, on their website, Debi Pearl quotes a number of things which I find to be extremely damaging and not at all supportive of a true Christian relationship in a desire to serve God. For instance, in one section a woman writes that her husband is verbally and emotionally abusive, has had numerous affairs, and is hurting her daughter, yet Debi Pearl states that the woman needs to stay with her husband because God hates all divorce. Yes, God hates divorce, but he also addresses infidelity and divorce in the bible (Matthew 5, Matthew 19) as well as saying that if anyone harms His children, they are better off to hang a millstone around their neck. Debi manipulates scripture to say that God will not save the woman's child if she leaves her husband.... how audacious to declare that God, who created the earth, will not save a CHILD if her mother leaves her abusive husband! Many times in an abusive home, the abuse turns from the spouse over time to the children as well, which I am sure is not to God's pleasure. In addition, it says that the husband is an unbeliever. While Debi declares that the woman must stay with her husband because it is God's will, God in scripture says that he wishes for believers to not be yoked with unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6), but if they are, they should remain only if the unbeliever is willing. If the unbeliever is abusive and having extramarital affairs, what show of desire is there to remain yoked with the believer? (1 Corinthians 7:15-16) She goes on to say that if you get divorced and remarry, God will not be in your marriage or your life. How ignorant is she to proclaim that God will no longer love the woman and bless her life because she has left an abusive home? (Romans 8- Nothing can separate us from the love of Christ)
Also, even if the woman is at fault or the divorce was for invalid reasons, the new marriage is no less valid. We live in God's forgiveness - not in His Law which Christ has fulfilled for us. Even where divorce is clearly wrong, it is also forgivable as are any other sins once they are forgiven. It is sinful to stay in an abusive marriage that they have tried to fix, but the other person refuses to get help - the abused person is breaking the 5th commandment (murdering themselves even if only in their heart), the 1st commandment (making her husband an idol over God and his love for them and for their safety), and really you can apply it to many other commandments! She is also breaking Ephesians 5:22 in that she's not submitting to her husband as to the Lord but she's submitting to her husband as the devil who hates her and wants her to burn in hell. I'm attacking the woman because it is clear enough how despicable the husband's sins are. God may hate divorce, but he also hates her husband who has hardened his heart to God.

[Rbonmom]

Thank you for posting that, I didn't take the time to post that before but those are exactly the points that I've brought to other attention, and thankfully they've tossed out this junk from the bible study rotation :tu

[Wholly Mama]

Here are the thoughts I typed out after reading it while visiting my mom (who was doing this book in her bible study)

This book has encouraged me in many ways to better serve my marriage, to be a better wife to my husband, and there was much good in this book. But, the good I found in it is the good I've found in other books - The Power of a Praying Wife, and The Excellent Wife to name a few. The hard part of reading this book was having to wade through the CRAP to get to the good!! It's interesting to me that Debi writes about how we are to listen to older women in how to love and obey our husbands, but in the acknowledgements in the front of her book, she acknowledges that her husband re-wrote her second attempts. So, I'm sure much of the advice I am receiving in this book is from the teaching of a man, and not a woman.

Over and over again, Debi drills it into her readers that our only purpose in life - the only reason we were created - is to be our husband's helpmeet. Over and over again she says that we serve the Lord when we serve our husbands. I never see mention of any other way of serving the Lord. It's as if our husbands are our intercessors, or perhaps gods themselves. Her writings left me cold inside at times when I felt they were bordering on idolotry for her husband. But I guess because I have a different view of creation than she does, I have a diffeent pespective on my purpose.

"The first day you wake up without a smile on your face is the first day you make a step in the direction of signing your divorce papers." That isn't a direct quote because I don't have the book with me, but it's pretty close at least! The pressure is placed solely on the wife for anything that goes wrong in a marriage. Any sin of the husband is because the wife isn't doing her job to serve and meet his needs. Man's sin is brushed off as his carnal instincts, while a woman's sin is very grave. Her solution to all of a husband's wrong doings is to be a happy, obedient wife, always with a smile on your face, and your bed sheets flapping. There is absolutely no mention of ever praying for your husband, which I feel is a grave omission by Debi. She says over and over that it's better to be with a man that doesn't treat you right than to be single, on welfare, sending your kids to public school, or at a daycare/with a baby-sitter where they are being molested, or taught innappropriate behaviors.

I find many times where she contradicts herself. She often lashes out against those who would try to make you believe in interpreting the verses to fit the times and culture that they were written in, but then she goes on to say that, regarding the verse about a woman not wearing men's clothes, we need to understand the time and culture it was written in, that dresses were common for men, and that middle eastern women were the only people who wore pants. So, which is it Debi? And I wholeheartedly agree with the other blogger I linked to "Whenever Mrs. Pearl starts quoting from the bible, I get confused." What is this lady trying to say?! I kept asking myself. It got to the point where I'd skim over sections of her book because I just couldn't understand what she was trying to say.

I'll share with you the good I got from this book so that none of you need to trouble yourselves with trying to find it yourselves. Our husbands need our respect. Whether they deserve it or not, respect them (within reason - not if they're abusing you!). Stop nagging and show more pleasantness. Relax! Don't be so uptight about everything! Follow him, and support him in his decisions. He needs to feel that you are his number one fan. (and this is my own input that I've picked up from other sources) "God doesn't call the equiped, he equips the called." Ask God to equip you for your marrriage to your husband. You *do* obey God when you honor your husband, but God will not leave you there. He will help you in your faults and create in you a heart for your husband.

p.s. the blog I was referring to is now a restricted page that requires permission to access, so I can't get to it anymore.

[Gentle Journey]

Good post Amy! I certainly dont subscribe to the Pearls methods, I just found it useful to learn ways I can honor my DH and how I have damaged him already. But I am sure you can find this elsewhere too.

[milkmommy]

Sarah can I pick you mind for a while.. (respectfully) you say you don't consider abuse grounds for "divorce" as someone who did recieve an annulment of my first marrige I do question this line of thought. First are you aware its not as simple as calling 911 and saying this happened lock him away. :no2 Personally I did this and he's go away for 48 hrs as per law come back angier than before and the abuse got worse and worse. I have no solid proof but I honetly think my DH abuse ended in the loss of my "first" child I'd never confirmed a pregancy but I was almost two months late and in one incident her slammed a fire place poker into my stomach leaving lacerations and knocking me to the groung. I had severe cramping and bleeding latter one positive HPT then a negitive a few days latter.. concondience? :shrug
While i was with him I faced almost daily physical abuse he broke my arm lacerated areas "covered" with cords belts wires what ever he grabed at the time, he cut off my access to our checking and saving accounts. He demmanded I call him every 1/2 hour if I was "allowed to leave" but it was fine if he was out all night. I was burned when he'd show me againt stoves with burners still lit and cut with glass as he'd toss glasses and plates acrorss the room.
Did I call authorties? yes many times and I was serious but its just not as simple as that. Its not... So I'm just wondering at what point was I allowed to say no more? For the record he did end up cheating he cut me off totally and ran off with another gal. It was only them when my parents really saw the issues (because I hid them). BTW his second "wife" also left him due to abuse yet hes still walking around hes total has maybe served 6 weeks in jail...
Deanna

[hsgbdmama]

(((((Deanna))))) :hugheart :cry :hugheart

[Gentle Journey]

Sarah can I pick you mind for a while.. (respectfully) you say you don't consider abuse grounds for "divorce" as someone who did recieve an annulment of my first marrige I do question this line of thought. First are you aware its not as simple as calling 911 and saying this happened lock him away. :no2 Personally I did this and he's go away for 48 hrs as per law come back angier than before and the abuse got worse and worse. I have no solid proof but I honetly think my DH abuse ended in the loss of my "first" child I'd never confirmed a pregancy but I was almost two months late and in one incident her slammed a fire place poker into my stomach leaving lacerations and knocking me to the groung. I had severe cramping and bleeding latter one positive HPT then a negitive a few days latter.. concondience? :shrug
While i was with him I faced almost daily physical abuse he broke my arm lacerated areas "covered" with cords belts wires what ever he grabed at the time, he cut off my access to our checking and saving accounts. He demmanded I call him every 1/2 hour if I was "allowed to leave" but it was fine if he was out all night. I was burned when he'd show me againt stoves with burners still lit and cut with glass as he'd toss glasses and plates acrorss the room.
Did I call authorties? yes many times and I was serious but its just not as simple as that. Its not... So I'm just wondering at what point was I allowed to say no more? For the record he did end up cheating he cut me off totally and ran off with another gal. It was only them when my parents really saw the issues (because I hid them). BTW his second "wife" also left him due to abuse yet hes still walking around hes total has maybe served 6 weeks in jail...
Deanna


Deanna, I'm so sorry for all you experienced and the loss of your baby. I'm not sure what to say. That was a horrible tradgedy.

[milkmommy]

Sara to be fair I have no solid proof I was pregnant.... I also don't want to midigate the true seriousness of the marriage vows. I NEVER EVER went into my marriage thinking I would divorce actually it was he who filed, but I also had a lot of time to reflect during my annlument (which I filed) and no longer think its quite as "simple"...

Deanna

[ChristmasGirl]

Deanna :hugheart

does anyone have the link to the online portions of CTBHHM? you can always pm me if you don't want to link to it here...

[Titus2Momof4]

{{{Deanna}}}}

This is why I have a hard time believing that abuse is not ground for divorce (and remarriage) I know some of the most legalist denominations would say it'd be ground for divorce (if he is unrepentant, counseling wont work/he wont' go, etc.) ...but that you shouldn't remarry. I always think, excuse me, but how could you possibly have planned for this abuse when you got married? You married this man, til death do us part, and that doesn't mean til he kills you by being abusive. It means you took vows, *assuming* that he wasn't going to beat you up everyday. I just think, if abuse comes into play, then all bets are off :shrug (again this assuming he isn't going to change)

I will be honest and say-something I've never told anyone besides family-- My dh hit me...about 5 years ago. It's the first time, and is also the last time he has ever laid a hand on me like that. I forgave him, and that was FIVE YEARS AGO, and before he was a Christian, and he's never done anything remotely close since then. THAT is totally different than being in a relationship w/someone who daily abuses you, burns you, whacks you with cords, etc. Frankly, and this is kinda blunt, but I think when your spouse begins acting like that, then your marriage is practically null and void. And, I can't possibly think that God would want you to either a) stay with that person til he kills you basically, or b) divorce but never remarry- why should you be single for the rest of your life, because your dh has mental issues, and excuse you for marrying the wrong person, kwim? Especially if you married him before becoming a Christian.

[milkmommy]

Yes my DH was a paper Christian... He had the documents proving baptism conformation communion ect but amoung hs actions..
1) To reveal on my wedding night that he had been with another and that he'd lied so I'd agree to marry him (I wouldn' have said no just because of his past)
2) to tell our priest flat out Yes I hit her I was "tired ill frustrated angry" ect I'm sooo sorry (add tears) only to come home and abuse me more for "making him lie"
3) to tell be flat out he could do what ever he pleased because they would always take his side and there was nothing I could do and he'd do what he wanted when he wanted and how


Deanna

[Titus2Momof4]

Yes my DH was a paper Christian... He had the documents proving baptism conformation communion ect but amoung hs actions..
1) To reveal on my wedding night that he had been with another and that he'd lied so I'd agree to marry him (I wouldn' have said no just because of his past)
2) to tell our priest flat out Yes I hit her I was "tired ill frustrated angry" ect I'm sooo sorry (add tears) only to come home and abuse me more for "making him lie"
3) to tell be flat out he could do what ever he pleased because they would always take his side and there was nothing I could do and he'd do what he wanted when he wanted and how


Deanna


ugh.... :hugheart I'm so sorry to hear this, but so glad that you have found a much better dh!

The things you have listed-
1) I bet you felt 'special' in a way, b/c you felt like he wanted you that badly that he'd lie, and I can only imagine how he portrayed that to you to make you feel like he felt inferior to you, he loved you so much that he lied to get to marry you, etc... but how :sick you must have felt inside.
2) oh, the drama, of crying in front of the priest, and then he dared to come home and blame you for 'making' him lie?! OT, but that's one thing I have thus far taken from ETLDTD is that no one can 'make' you feel any way, or for that matter 'make' you do something sinful (lying). I'm sorry he abused you even more for that :bheart

3) this def. sounds like he knew what he was doing, and basically admitted to manipulating everyone to be on 'his side' :bheart

:hugheart

Well, it's done now, and I'm sure your current dh is a wonderful man. :heart

[illinoismommy]

I second this sentiment :crazy2

Those people tell an abused wife to stay, and if an abusive husband goes to jail to keep visiting him everyday... if your husband cheats, do nothing and say nothing but serve him daily because the success of your marriage is totally on you..... total blind submission... :sick2