Feeling a bit "rageful" and "violent"

[Lois]

My DD#1 is HN and with a new baby in the mix it has been challanging to say the least. We don't have help from any outside sources right now (ie: no family or sitters we trust or know or live in state) and I am finding myself losing it with Jadyn much more then I would like. Most day's it's less then 2 times but sometimes, like today I get very violent with her, not like spanking or hitting or anything but like yelling, angry actions, punative stuff like this morning, she wouldn't go back to sleep after DH woke up and she saw him off and me and Shalya were still in bed and needed an hour or 2 more sleep (so did Jadyn) and she kept being loud and waking shayla up just as soon as I got her to sleep finally I couldn't take it after explaining and reminding and blah blah blah, I grabbed her by the arm and practicly threw her out by herself in the hall and slammed the door yelling at her the whole time. I then went and layed back on the bed with shayla and tried to relax for a second and recompose myself enough to think straight and decided that I needed to "escape" before I lost it again so I left baby on the bed and walked past screaming Jadyn in the hall and into the office, closed the door and got on the computer (sort of allows me to get away for a few seconds), I then attened to Jadyn who came in crying and saying sorry sorry, so I loved on her and said I shouldn't have done what I did....Baby had fallen asleep again on her own PTL...anyways, it just bothers me that I get so angry and I am trying to learn how to express my feelings in a healthy manner but at the same time I am trying to teach a toddler how to do it and it's just been so hard.
My dad had a temper and I can remember quite few times I was very scared for my siblings and I when he lost it. He made my mom cry often when I was smaller because he would get so out of control and violent. He punched a hole in the wall once, broke up a chair and then burned it in the wood burning stove, broke toys or threw them away, popped babies in the mouth for spitting out babyfood, hit my brother on the head with a dust pan, thrown all sort of stuff at us, and of course lots of yelling. I don't want to sound like him but I am scared that somtimes I do and I am not sure what TO do....KWIM. I want to break the cycle and it was going fairly well untill #2 came along and now things just go crazy sometimes. Any advice would be appreciated. I almost want to see a christian phyciatrist but don'y have the $ or time.

[Rabbit]

I don't have any advice. Just a hug, and that I've been there, with the situation you described between your high needs daughter, and you, and that I, too, have thrown my daughter out of the room or onto the bed, screamed at her, and stomped myself off to another room and shut the door, and fumed. I hear my mother in my voice, and it panics me, when I'm that mad. I am not proud of how things have gone for Samantha since I got pregant with her brother. It helped when my midwife said she went through the same thing with her two, and that after the first year, it gets better.

-Natalie

[CrunchySeaSalt]

:hug2 :hug

[Rbonmom]

For me, I have to really stay on top of my anger. I am a single mom so I totally get the "needing a break" thing. But what I do is when I feel that anger start to boil up, I remove myself before I get to the point of touching, yelling, or whatever it may be. When I am alone in the room, sometimes I have to leave ds crying in the other room, I am able to more objectively look at the situation. Almost every time I've felt that way it was either because I was expecting too much of ds, or of myself. When I feel frustrated because he "should know better" or I feel I'm not cutting it as a mom, then I tend to feel like lashing out. I am really careful about it because I remember the rages my mom would get into and the fear that caused etc... I don't want to do that to ds. That being said, it's only happened maybe 6x in ds life so far. I would think if it were much more than that, I'd be trying to explore what and why I was getting so angry. I know it took my mom until I was a teenager to realize that she had serious rage because of an abortion she had before she was married. Once she started dealing with that issue, her anger dissipated a lot. Not that you necessarily have anything big, I'm just saying don't underestimate the issue in the past that may be contributing if you feel you have an actual anger problem. For myself, I take that out of control anger thing very seriously because I think if not handled well, it could lead to abuse. I know when I was married to my xh (he was very abusive btw) there were a couple times where I was out of control angry and threw a remote at him, and once threw a glass across the room. That was inappropriate then, but unacceptable with a little one. I just have to really stay on top of any feelings so that they don't get to where I feel like I can't stop myself.

[MarynMunchkins]

:hug Exercise helps me. Even if it's just a quick walk with a baby in the sling - the fresh air and movement help calm me down. :)

[Katherine]

Sounds like you might be really tired and run-down. :hugheart

Are there specific circumstances or times when you tend to lose it more than others?

Mine revolve around being tired, being in pain (migraines, disc problems, etc.), and trying to get something else done when the kids need my attention. When I haven't had a good night's sleep, or when it's getting close to nap/bedtime and someone is melting down (and I'm getting fatigued as well), or when I'm being interrupted at something I want/need to get done--those are the worst times. Identifying the points of critical mass can help you to catch it before it starts, or at least start getting a handle on it earlier... and you might even be able to come up with a game plan for addressing those particular events/times.

It has also helped me to realize that I stuffed negative emotions for the first 30 years of my life, b/c it was billed as being "obedient" (for a child), "submissive" (for a wife), and just plain Christian in a million different ways to NOT have/show negative emotions. :( Like you said, I am learning along with my kiddos how to be angry without sinning against others.

I guess that's not a lot of specific advice... :think

Have you tried having a comfort corner or a "calm down chair" for yourself?

finally I couldn't take it after explaining and reminding and blah blah blah,

This is where Joanne's "say it once" rule might really help. I know my frustration builds up each and every time I repeat myself. If I say it once and then DO something (take her to another room if she's old enough, turn on a video for her, etc... ) I have a better chance of staying calm and in control. :tu I know it's hard, and there came a point with my oldest son where I had to do away with the "try again" mentality, which seemed a little rigid at the time, but it was needed.. and it helped.

[Rabbit]

I hadn't realized until I read that last post how true the not repeating thing is. When I start repeating a directive, it's like I slip into a groove that I didn't make, and I just flow right down that groove to the inevitable rage at the end of it. Every time I repeat the directions, when they aren't being followed, doom builds up in my voice, that unspoken threat of something bad coming if what I say isn't done. It's always worse when I can't get up and make it be done, because my hands are full with the baby. So, sometimes, some small part of the house gets trashed while I close my eyes and try not to look, cause I can't get up to stop it. I still can't always cope with that frustration.

-Natalie

[heartofjoy]

I just want to give you a hug! :hug2 I struggle with anger too....and not being able to walk away. You got some great advice that I am going to borrow.

[Myrtle]

I coulda' written your post minus the dad part. Our kids are close in age, too. Dd was 7/04 and ds was 8/06. This week has been the worst, and I have been so mean lately. I felt like a different person, and I hated the mom I was being. I've done a little research on ppd, and I think I'm borderline. Doesn't excuse my actions, but helped me understand them a little and the anger/rage that isn't a normal part of our relationship.

It's so hard when there's noone to take the kids for a few minutes to let you blow off some steam. My friend told me yesterday that she'd packed up her kids and gone to her dh's work one day. She called to see if he could get off work early b/c she was on her way there. He said he didn't think he could, and she basically said he had to. And if you knew her, you'd know how atypical behavior that is for her. It made me feel more normal for calling dh crying w/ both kids screaming in the background and telling him to come home. I was just scared of how angry I felt. I got it under control and caught him before he left, so he didn't have to come home, but still. I know it's awful to feel like this, and knowing it's normal didn't help me feel better, but apparently it is normal. What helped me the most was asking dh and our church to pray for me. That and crying (literally) to God for help. Today is the first day I've felt calm all day in a long time. :hug2

[monica]

I had a really bad day like yours today. I threw things, yelled, grabbed my 6 yr old roughly. :cry Just feeling like dirt about that. How can I expect them not to do the very behaviors I am modeling. It just makes me sick!!! Don't really have any words of wisdom, just wanted to let you know that another mom who loves her kids very much stumbled too.

[Quietspirit]

finally I couldn't take it after explaining and reminding and blah blah blah,
This is where Joanne's "say it once" rule might really help. I know my frustration builds up each and every time I repeat myself. If I say it once and then DO something (take her to another room if she's old enough, turn on a video for her, etc... ) I have a better chance of staying calm and in control. I know it's hard, and there came a point with my oldest son where I had to do away with the "try again" mentality, which seemed a little rigid at the time, but it was needed.. and it helped

The explaining, etc isn't going to work. Even if you only say it once and make it happen. That's because your child is only 2 years old! You are parenting two babies, not parenting a baby and an older child. Perhaps if you frame things that way in your mind you can have more realistic expectations of your just-turned two year old? :hug2

Is there a trusted advisor or someone you could talk with to help you process anger and frustration? Someone to whom you could be acccountable to in a Christian environment who could also pray and brainstorm with you?

[zak]

:hug2 I agree with Mary - just a quick walk around the block might do you all some good.

:hug

[Atarah]

:popcorn (needing the suggestions, too)

[Rabbit]

That's because your child is only 2 years old! You are parenting two babies, not parenting a baby and an older child. Perhaps if you frame things that way in your mind you can have more realistic expectations of your just-turned two year old? :hug2


Ooh, I know I keep chiming in, but this is such an important idea. Your children really are both babies. The "oldest" can't be any older or more mature than her age. Having TWO babies, is REALLY hard. By the time the first is done being a baby, the youngest won't be far behind, so that at least, is a bright spot coming one day.

-Natalie

[canadiyank]

The most helpful parenting advice for me *ever* was, when I'm feeling like that, I need to draw the line closer to myself. Like Natalie said, the doom rises in my voice....I need to make it happen, not repeat it over and over. In my house that means saying it twice and acting. *I* am more calm and can react more appropriately.

The Other Side of Love (http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Love-Handling-Godly/dp/0802467776/sr=8-1/qid=1161413320/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4554456-8407929?ie=UTF8) has helped me tremendously. I've also heard good things about She's Gonna Blow (http://www.amazon.com/Shes-Gonna-Blow-Dealing-Anger/dp/0736915524/sr=1-1/qid=1161413371/ref=sr_1_1/104-4554456-8407929?ie=UTF8&s=books) and When Anger Hurts Your Kids (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240458/ref=reg_hu-wl_mrai-recs/104-4554456-8407929?ie=UTF8).

Is there any chance you might be struggling with PPD? Do you have any self-calming things in place (walking, going on errands, taking fish oil, etc)?

[cindergretta]

:hugheart

:pray

I have nothing to add to the very wise advice and ideas already given here. :hug2

[Marsha]

Yep, me too!! NOTHING worked for me....not exercising, not praying, not talking, not hugging, NOTHING until I acknowledged my PPD and went on meds. Like night and day, it was.
(((hugs)))

[CelticJourney]

The explaining, etc isn't going to work. Even if you only say it once and make it happen. That's because your child is only 2 years old! You are parenting two babies, not parenting a baby and an older child. Perhaps if you frame things that way in your mind you can have more realistic expectations of your just-turned two year old?

I am going to whole heartedly agree with this statement and point out that leaving a two year old on her own for two hours, even with an adult in the house, is perhaps a 'problematic' goal to begin with. If sleep is the issue, you definitely need to find a way to get more, but in a safe way. Perhaps a nap in the evening when daddy comes home or, hard as it is to do, sleep with them at nap time. Maybe even a neighborhood teenager who could come after school and entertain the girls while you catch a nap?

Personally, I found that I had anger issues as my hormones cycled - even with breastfeeding. Understanding that didn't help the anger not rise up, but if very much helped me to know it was my problem and that helped me stop it from becoming their problem. We talk a lot about not surpressing out feelings here, but we also acknowledge that we have to find ways of handling/channeling them so that we do not end up 'sinning in our anger'. I know that is probably no help but I guess I just wanted to say that anger issues are not uncommon, we just each have to find our own way to manage them.

[Gentle Journey]

:popcorn

[Katherine]

The explaining, etc isn't going to work. Even if you only say it once and make it happen. That's because your child is only 2 years old! You are parenting two babies, not parenting a baby and an older child. Perhaps if you frame things that way in your mind you can have more realistic expectations of your just-turned two year old?

I agree that explaining is not going to "work" with a 2yo, but I still think it's reasonable--and wise--to limit the number of times you repeat an instruction. :shrug I didn't say "say it once and make it happen" b/c you can't make a 2yo stop being awake, stop crying, stop wanting attention, etc. ;) :D

That's why I worded it the way I did.. say it once and then do *something*. Get out of bed... start the day early.. put in a movie... get her a snack... if the baby's asleep then go to her room and give her some toys while you crash on the bed for a few extra minutes. :shrug My point was more about addressing Mom's frustration... I've found that repeating myself with increasing intensity to a child who is not *hearing* me or is not capable of what I'm asking only increases MY level of frustration and anger.

[canadiyank]

I've found that repeating myself with increasing intensity to a child who is not *hearing* me or is not capable of what I'm asking only increases MY level of frustration and anger.

Yep, absolutely. This has been the biggest parenting realization to me. :tu

[Quietspirit]

Palil,

I agree with you. :hug When I am parenting my children at ages 2-3, I do a lot of action combined with words. So for example, "You need to get down off the sofa" said WHILE helping child down. ;) As my children have approached age 3, I find that I can use a one-time request followed with "help" if they cannot comply. (I actually never repeat a command/request more than once with any of my children at any age but that means that I have taken steps to make sure they hear me the first time, and have instructed them in comliance from a young age). But until age 36 months, I've found that helping while talking works better. I think it also helps to "train" my toddlers in compliance in a gentle way.

edited to add: Of course, on some days, I have been known to mess up the "only once" philosophy! ;) Some days are just like that! :phew But I try not to have too many of those moments. :giggle

[Lois]

Thanks for the BTDT stories...helps to know that I am not the only one out there. Also I think it might be a little hormonal to (no pd yet but still some sort of a hormonal cycle) because it comes and goes more strongly like once a month.
She doesn't have "her own room" and won't really "play by herself" in like the living room downstairs. The only room close to the bedroom is the office and it's NOT "baby friendly"....well my desk is ok but DH won't make his that way. The movie idea is a good one only she has never been much of a TV person at all. I TOTALLY agree with the say it and then follow through deal and usually am able to do that but when you are nursing and trying to keep baby asleep so she's not a crab it's hard....also when you want to keep sleeping as well....and the only reason DD(2 y/o) is up is because she heard DH getting ready for work and he likes her company for breakfast so he doesn't mind if she wakes up and most of the mornings I don't mind either because she comes back to sleep but some mornings she doesn't and it's GRRRR for me all morning or wake up and start the day earlier and be tired and overly sensative/reactive all day because of it.
I have sort of learned that on those day's I should just throw all my "plans" for the day out the window and just leave the house as soon as we all get up and showered...and head to the park so DD can run off energy and will take a nap that day so I can at least get a break from her for an hour even if I can't nap because other DD isn't asleep.
Thanks for all your posts, It kind of feels like I have been to a "raging mom's" ananomous class or something :giggle
It's theropudic :hug2

[Katherine]

I have sort of learned that on those day's I should just throw all my "plans" for the day out the window and just leave the house as soon as we all get up and showered...and head to the park so DD can run off energy and will take a nap that day so I can at least get a break from her for an hour even if I can't nap because other DD isn't asleep.

:yes There have been time with all my babies where I've had to do this... just let it roll and make adjustments as the day goes on (read: do everything in my power to engineer a group nap so Mommy can sleep, too) :mrgreen. :hug

[Quietspirit]

Something else you can try is a nursing box. I don't know if you've tried that or not but when I had young toddlers and newborns, it really helped. I bought a medium child-sized Rubbermaid container with an easy to open lid. My toddler and I decorated it with stickers and markers. We talked the whole time about this was their special "nursing box" and they got to play with the things inside anytime the baby needed to nurse. After we decorated it, I put it up on a shelf in the closet (out of sight, out of mind ;)). Then, later that night, I stocked it with small easy to play with items (silly putty, box of crayons and a color book, little plastic animals with a small barn (WalMart 88cents!), a plastic slinky, blocks, a small book or two, stickers/clingon magnetic set, etc etc). I put about 7 items in there and kept about 7 in reserve in my room. I would rotate the toys each week so it was a nice variety. THEN, when the baby needed to nurse, I'd scoop up the baby and get my toddler. "OOOO", I'd say, "The baby wants to nurse. That means we can get your nursing box toys to play with!! YAY!" and we'd run to get it. I'd situate my toddler at my feet with his box and latch the baby on. It worked most days and was a wonderful time! The nursing box toys only came out when the baby nursed. That made them and the time with them very special. :grin

[Titus2Momof4]

:hugheart

I think you probably snapped this morning because 1) you kept getting the baby back to sleep and she kept waking her, and 2) you just woke up. I have a tendency to be extremely edgy when I just wake up. My kids know..that if I JUST woke up, ummm...just be quiet, and let me be for at least 5-10mins--long enough for me to stumble out of bed, go to the bathroom, put the coffee on and take at least a few sips..I just say "Mommy just woke up, so I would advise you to just please sit down on the couch, and watch tv for a few mins--I will help you in a minute"..Sometimes they are hungry, and I say "ok-just a minute, let me compose myself". If any of that gets broken, say, a pestering child before I even have a chance to get out of bed, I would snap and yell, too. It's just how I *am* or something, that I need practically silence when I just wake up, trying to focus my eyes, stumbling to the bathroom and coffee, etc. This seldom happens, I guess because they know that if they will just be quiet and let me transition from sleeping to awake, that I'm a much better mommy. Now, because of this... I much prefer to wake up *before* my kids, so by the time they get up, I'm immediately cheerful to them and not needing them to just be quiet for a few mins. So, that, for years, has been just the way I prefer to do it, and I aim to be up before them daily. Doesn't always happen tho, like this morning.. I woke up to them being loud at Dora on tv...I said "SHHHHHHH!" then got up, focused myself, asked them to just sit down on the couch or go in their room and play their V-smile for a few mins-I needed to wake up. 4 y/o told m she was hungry, I said "ok, just a minute" and I sat on the couch while the coffee brewed, eyes fuzzy, you know-just woke up-transitioning.... Then I got up, made my cup of coffee (she followed quietly into the kitchen) and then I poured everyone (kids) cereal, sat them down, came on the couch to drink my coffee and wake up and here I am. If they get to be too bickering, fightng, etc, particularly when I've just woken up, then I tell them I need them to just sit down on the couch and watch tv (assuming they have already eaten), and yes I use tv to distract them while I try to wake up, if they are fighting too much. But, the three of mine I'm referring to are older (4-6) so they understand. My almost 2 y/o does not get this at all, but he is also like me in that he can be grouchy when he just wakes, so if it's him who is up, and I can't say "be quiet for a few mins, I need to wake up" I just scoop him up and he cuddles on my lap. He's like mama and needs his "transition" time (unlike my other three who seem to just *snap* and be awake LOL, tho 4 y/o sometimes needs transition time)

[Titus2Momof4]

I forgot to mention--

Last year, I finally did decide to see a psychiatrist. I would have preferred a Christian one, but none of them would take payments, and like you, I did not have the $. This was the only one we found to accept payments, and take a portion off all of my followups. It took a LOT for me to finally, finally admit to others (esp dh) that I had a problem and needed help. I can't remember what it was that finally made me do it, all I remember is I had lost it like you one day, and I was just in tears, because I could not take it anymore. I am SO glad that I did finally go see a Dr, as I am now on anti-anxiety meds (Klonopin) and am a MUCH better mother. Dh calls me a softie many times :shifty because I am not snappy as I used to be. And it definitely shows when I forget to take my meds...so it's important that I take them. *speaking of, off to take my morning dose now*

[Morning Glory]

I've found that repeating myself with increasing intensity to a child who is not *hearing* me or is not capable of what I'm asking only increases MY level of frustration and anger.

Yep, absolutely. This has been the biggest parenting realization to me. :tu


My sons are thirteen months apart and reading this has been like a light going off in my head! Thank you so much for this insight.

To the OP, lack of sleep would bring me to this breaking point. There were many times I'd put the boys in the car and go for a drive. Getting out of the house helped too--window shopping at the mall or a walk in the park.