Swats vs. Spankings

[Titus2Momof4]

Do you consider "swats" (as in, one swat on the thigh) the same as "spanking"?? I'm asking as it has come up in conversation. Now, to me, from having done both, they are not the same thing, literally speaking....And I guess I don't feel as :sick about a simple swat as I do about a full-blown spanking. However, I think it can be a slippery slope...what about when one swat isn't good enough--then you'd get to doing more than just one swat, and eventually full blown spanking, kwim?

[Wonder Woman]

:shrug how's about just *one* slap from your husband? that's not as bad as him punching you, right?

If your dh would go to jail for doing it to you, it's wrong to do to the kids. At least that's my very much not humble opinion. :shifty

[erinee]

I guess it's all hitting to me. The point to me is that it's not okay to do either to an adult, so why is it okay to do it to a child? I suppose when I get right down to it, I don't think a swat (which Zach got a few times as a toddler :() is as damaging to the child or the relationship as a full-blown spanking, and I don't think the way most of the parents I know spank their kids is as damaging as what Ezzo and Pearl recommend (which was completely foreign to me until I came here). But I really don't differentiate much, because hitting is hitting.

[lavender mom]

I think it's the same thing. A hit is a hit. Awesome analogy Rebecca.
Either way, I think it sends the message that its OK to solve our problems with hitting/violence.

[mamaKristin]

hitting is hitting, as far as I can tell. If anything, a swat on the leg is often done more as a knee jerk reaction, which is even less what I want to teach my children to do.

[Punkie]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else. A hit is a hit. Speaking as a child who was not spanked, let me say that I'd be equally freaked out if my parents slapped me, hit me, punched me, you name it. I wouldn't have thought "Oh, that was just a swat! No biggie!"

[Aisling]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else. A hit is a hit. Speaking as a child who was not spanked, let me say that I'd be equally freaked out if my parents slapped me, hit me, punched me, you name it. I wouldn't have thought "Oh, that was just a swat! No biggie!"

exactly.


:shrug how's about just *one* slap from your husband? that's not as bad as him punching you, right?

If your dh would go to jail for doing it to you, it's wrong to do to the kids. At least that's my very much not humble opinion. :shifty

Exactly again :P

[ArmsOfLove]

they are both hitting; a spanking, however, is hitting with an entire icky spiritual abuse ritual attached to it.

[Rbonmom]

Yep, to me a hit is a hit no matter what. I read a story once about a mother who didn't want to spank but felt she needed to one day, so she sent her little boy out into the yard to find a stick to use as a switch. The little boy looked forelorn and went out into the yard. He came back with a bunch of rocks and said "here mom, this will hurt even more than a stick" To him the idea of his mom "spanking" him was equal to her throwing rocks at him. Why should it be any different? It's so disturbing to me that we as a culture actually raise our kids to allow us to hurt them phyisically and think it's normal :bheart :cry

[MarynMunchkins]

It's all the same to me - especially because the words are used interchangeably (along with "beat") here in the South. :neutral

[Titus2Momof4]

It's all the same to me - especially because the words are used interchangeably (along with "beat") here in the South. :neutral


......along with "whoop" or "whip".....

Yes, I agree with you all...they are all "hitting". I like the analogy :tu

[mom2threePKs]

I see the difference in what you are describing. And I think the damage they inflict is a little different but I don't think I could rank them. I see the swat as more out of anger and disorienting to the child because they may or may not know it is coming. If you were in a better mood or having a better day you very well could make a better disciline decision than a swat. That's pretty scary for a kid to not know if they are going to get a swat or a firm GOYB response to a poor choice. The spanking, though, is more cold blooded and I think carries with it the destruction of trust and relationship. It's easier to aplogize for a heat of the moment swat, I suppose but a "bend over hold the bed for your licks" spanking is creepier.

Magan

[Auroras mom]

I don't think either is appropriate. I was rasied in a punitive, Southern Baptist household, and was spanked a lot. I grew up believing children are all inherently manipulative and that spanking was a necessary thing. That said, I had a brother and sister who were 16 and 14 years my juniors. When our father died, I tried to help out with them a lot for my stepmom.

On two occasions, I swatted my brother when he was "out of control" - hitting my sister and one time trying to dunk her repeatedly in the ocean. I felt the swats were necessary to make him stop what I felt to be dangerous behavior. They were really a knee-jerk, control-oriented reaction. To this day, 11 years later, I feel icky over it and regret it deeply. I really should speak to him about it. The look on his face showed me how wrong it was. I hope to never, ever do that to my child. I think any hitting has the potential to be humiliating and also to provoke them to anger.

[CelticJourney]

My definition: I think 'swatting' is reactive and much less intense, while 'spanking' is a purposeful act of inflicting pain. Both are wrong, I just think one is meaner than the other because spanking implys that the person is acting calmly and purposely decided to attempt to cause as much pain as they have decided in 'called for'.

[Lois]

What about swatting the wall or swatting your hands together really hard(it hurt my hands) when your 2y/o DD has been driving you bananas all morning :mad :O :no2....these are bad moment that I don't want to happen....and most of the time they don't...but some days...especially fridays

[ChristianMother27]

my gut reaction is to say a swat is not as bad as a spanking (which i guess would be multiple swats?). but then i think of when DD swats ME in frustration and i don't like it any more than i would like it if she kept doing it. so i guess if you had to choose swat or spanking, then swat would be lesser of two evils, but ideally neither would be the choice.

[Wonder Woman]

What about swatting the wall or swatting your hands together really hard(it hurt my hands) when your 2y/o DD has been driving you bananas all morning :mad :O :no2....these are bad moment that I don't want to happen....and most of the time they don't...but some days...especially fridays


I've modeled punching an inanimate object as a form of anger management for Jaden :shifty

Personally I'd steer clear of slapping your own hands together...you don't want her to get the message that you hurt yourself when angry...but to me it's fine to let them see that you are frustrated and that you are not making the choice to hurt her. :hug

[TulipMama]

What I'm reading here is that "swats" are often less-intentional and more reactive than "spankings."

Yet, there are those who teach intentional "swats" as a training measure, and something "less serious" than a full out spanking. Especially for infants/toddlers in their intials "training" stage. I don't believe that "swats" are any more appropriate than spankings, even though they are lesser in physical intensity.

Every time I read the Statement of Beliefs (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=39.0) here at GCM, I am encouraged and renew my commitment to parenting with the Gospel and grace at the core of our lives.

16. Fear and purposely-inflicted pain have no place in gentle, loving, Biblical discipline, and children should be discipled from birth with an appropriate mixture of kindness and firmness in a manner that respects their feelings and their developmental, emotional, and daily needs.

[Learninggentleness]

however, is hitting with an entire icky spiritual abuse ritual attached to it.



The spanking, though, is more cold blooded and I think carries with it the destruction of trust and relationship. It's easier to aplogize for a heat of the moment swat, I suppose but a "bend over hold the bed for your licks" spanking is creepier.


So true. :no2 The belief some parents have that God is the one who is mandating they do this to their children is so sad...and that when a child is "spanked" they are often told "I don't want to do this, but God requires it of me since I'm your mommy" or anything resembling that message. :mad

[Garnet]

a hit is a hit. in my house, you hit you sit. meaning if one of the kids hits another one of the kids, they sit with me. so why would it be okay for me to hit them? now, i do admit, i have done it before. when my ds hand was headed for the flame on the stove, and I had already said no several times, i did swat his hand. I felt that was better than getting burnt.

[Benjaminswife]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse. But both are very bad.

[CelticJourney]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse.

Are we just defining it differently than you are? Could you explain the difference as you see it?

[Benjaminswife]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse.

Are we just defining it differently than you are? Could you explain the difference as you see it?


Well when I think of "swat" I think of hitting a child over and over like on the leg for different things.

When I think of spanking I think of a parent who says, "You do not play with mommy's candle. You were wrong to do that and you will get a spanking for it" so the parent spanks the bottom.

Does that make sense?

[joyful mama]

see these phrases always bothered me... spanking to me, was with your hand on hte 'designated' area. I never saw spanking with any 'object' as a spanking... its a beating, whipping, etc. but not a spanking. I'm still shocked people call a 'beating' a spanking. Its like a 'softer' (though not soft) word... like a 'swat' sounds better than a 'spanking' but its still all hitting, and none of it is ok. \


So true. shaking head no - frown The belief some parents have that God is the one who is mandating they do this to their children is so sad...and that when a child is "spanked" they are often told "I don't want to do this, but God requires it of me since I'm your mommy" or anything resembling that message. yeah I was :cry and :eek when i listened to a bible study of a person I really respect, and she said it was actually a sin for her NOT to spank. That SHE would be in disobedience to our Lord by not doing so. Sigh. Its sad that so many people equate discipline with spanking. My kids are disciplined. I follow the bible and wholeheartedly agree that my children need discipline and as a Christian mom its my duty to do so. But that doesn't mean with a spanking or punishments :no2.

[milkmommy]

they are both hitting; a spanking, however, is hitting with an entire icky spiritual abuse ritual attached to it.


Yea this...

Deanna

[Quiteria]

I think it is a slippery slope. I was taught to swat the hand for grabbing for the worng things, or the thigh for something quick, but it was still hitting. It didn't always hurt much, sometimes it could be really, really lightly as a token gesture..but IMO, that carries the same kind of threat as "just wait, you could've just earned a spanking for later." IMO, it was a warning that hitting by a parent would be allowed, and it could escalate. When I came to GCM, I decided that both needed to be outlawed for my household, because both actions are anger-causing in both the child and adult, and still with the mindset of "You need to be punished, made to feel guilty and ashamed and bad, so bad that you will stop acting this way" as opposed to learning that there are healthier, more pleasant choices for one's behavior and that mom requires what is good for you, and your needs will indeed be met. Even a light swat turned things into a really negative perspective, and guess what--if that's the only motivation for stopping one's behavior, then a light swat will cease to work over time...hence the slippery slope. Sometimes a kid would rather get swatted that not have your attention, or would rather get swatted if it means reaching the cookie or toy, so then you think, Am I not swatting hard enough to be a deterrent?...and that is way too slippery of a slope to be on. Better to remove that parenting tool from the box entirely b/c it doesn't work long term for most.

[Katherine]

They are both icky and dangerous in their own ways, IMO.

One of the most dangerous subtleties of Pearl's method is that he starts parents out with "just" a single swat or switch, and basically leads them through a desensitization process of gradually increasing number, frequency, and intensity of hitting.

What's worse? That first hit of cocaine that starts the ball rolling, or the massive doses taken by a hard core addict? :neutral

[Titus2Momof4]

What about swatting the wall or swatting your hands together really hard(it hurt my hands) when your 2y/o DD has been driving you bananas all morning :mad :O :no2....these are bad moment that I don't want to happen....and most of the time they don't...but some days...especially fridays


:hug

I've done pretty good the past couple of days, but I know my "triggers" usually are the evenings when dh has to work (meaning he's gone from 6am til 11ish pm (between both jobs). I try to just relax, and enjoy my kids, and reeeeeeeeally keep in mind that this is a trigger for me, which definitely helps me to stay on top of it. Like tonight, after we played outside for over an hour, we came in, I gave them baths, my potatos still weren't finished, so I let them finish while they bathed, they were out, I was wrapping up dinner at 8pm (usually we eat around 6ish) Much less fixing their plates, etc. So they didn't even eat til after 8. (which is the latest bedtime) I kept reminding myself, I'm not on any schedule, so even tho we are eating about 2hrs later than normal, who cares???? Except for the fact that it was in fact bedtime, so they were getting whiny from tiredness, understandably... but other than that, who cared? I cleaned them up, then all 4 cuddled up on my lap for a story (I had said no, since it was so late, but they asked for "just one", so I agreed) and then they went to bed. Late, yeah... but so what. Anyway, knowing some of my triggers, esp knowing them ahead of time, helps. like it helped tonight, helped me keep my cool.

[Titus2Momof4]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse. But both are very bad.


Good point. You know I had never even heard of "swats" til I discovered the Pearls, and a Pearl-loving email list and then a message board. I still think it's a slippery slope like I said in my OP (what happens when a swat isn't good enough, eventually you are swatting several times til it becomes a real spanking). But I see what you are saying.

[Benjaminswife]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse. But both are very bad.


Good point. You know I had never even heard of "swats" til I discovered the Pearls, and a Pearl-loving email list and then a message board. I still think it's a slippery slope like I said in my OP (what happens when a swat isn't good enough, eventually you are swatting several times til it becomes a real spanking). But I see what you are saying.


Also it could be that those that use Pearl and Pearl-like methods call it a "swat" to make it seem less as bad. "Oh it is just a training swat, so you don't have to spank later"

[Titus2Momof4]

I see it a little differently. I look at swats as what Pearl does and spanking more as what the typical parent might do. And I think Pearl is worse. So I see the swat as worse. But both are very bad.


Good point. You know I had never even heard of "swats" til I discovered the Pearls, and a Pearl-loving email list and then a message board. I still think it's a slippery slope like I said in my OP (what happens when a swat isn't good enough, eventually you are swatting several times til it becomes a real spanking). But I see what you are saying.


Also it could be that those that use Pearl and Pearl-like methods call it a "swat" to make it seem less as bad. "Oh it is just a training swat, so you don't have to spank later"


The irony of this is it isn't just a "swat"/tap...it has to be a stinging swat. And as for not having to spank later, that's just not true. Mainly because, different ages bring about different developmental challenges. Oh sure you can swat/"train" a 1 y/o out of touching your plant, but when she's 4 y/o, she has new "issues", only now "she's too old to swat, swats will just irritate her, she needs a spanking." It never just stops at the swats, not in my personal experience.