"We have a spatula if you want to use it"

[euromom]

This was said to me today by a 4 yr old that I was babysitting :hunh :bheart I had ds with me and he kept touching a doll that belonged to this girl's younger sister. It's a doll she goes to sleep with and is the only one of her toys that she does not have to share. Well, it's a Cabbage Patch Doll with long hair and ds has this thing about hair so he was pulling on the dolls hair and touching the doll, and even though I told him not to and redirected him he kept going back to it, so then the 4 yr old turned to me and said "We have a spatula if you want to use it", meaning on my ds because he was not "obeying" me to stop touching her sister's doll. :bheart She's only 4 so I was kind of in shock and not sure how/if to respond and finally just said "That's ok, we don't need a spatula" That was way too much info for me too. I knew the parents spanked but I didn't know they used objects such as a spatula :hunh :cry :bheart The kids I watch are normally pretty good when I watch them but I stuggle with how I feel about if they were to sometime in the future do something on my "watch" that would later cause them to get a spanking. The mom works from home and is right upstairs the whole time and can hear most everything that is going on. I wouldn't ever want to lie of course and she does usually ask if they obeyed. Does anybody else here ever watch kids that might get spanked if they do something the parents deam spankable while you are watching them??? Or do you just say, because of your convictions, that you are not going to watch kids of parents who you know will spank them??? I'm not sure what to do. There have been no problems so far, but who knows what could happen :(

[ArmsOfLove]

that is so creepy :( I would have honestly told her I don't use spatulas on my children :no2

When I worked in the nursery the worst behaved children were the Ezzo'd children :( The policy was to not tell the parents what went wrong unless it involved injury to another child they may be contacted by another mother about. We would say, "Everything is fine," or "We had a successful day" because with GBD you deal with things and they don't become issues--they are resolved. So nothing is left unresolved and needing resolution.

[euromom]

Well, if she askes how they were I normally respond "They were fine." But when she asks "Did they obey?" That's a little more direct, it's a yes or no answer. Now for me I don't require first time obedience, so yeah, probably eventually they obeyed and she doesn't ask specifically if they obeyed the first time I asked something, she just asks if they obeyed, so I guess I could still say "yes they obeyed" even though they did not obey the first time :shrug

[ArmsOfLove]

Q: "Did they obey?"

A: "We had a successful day"

[Rbonmom]

My sister and bil are very punitive, and my nephew has said things like this to me before (he just turned 5). He asked me when ds was fussing one time (he was about 12mo) if I was going to flick him. I said "no, Emmitt doesn't get flicked. He's allowed to fuss" and then he said "oh, then he gets spanked" and I was like :eek :bheart "no, Emmitt doesn't get spankings either. It's ok to be grumpy" I didn't know what to say next if it had gone on because my sweet nephew is very perceptive for his age. I'm sure the conversation would have been repeated to his parents and I didn't want them thinking I was trying to undermine them. Actually over the summer, I left ds for the first time overnight with my sister and bil. I had full confidence that both were very clear on my stance on spanking/flicking, and stupid me I didn't want to insult them by implying that they would, so I didn't bring it up. So a few days later I was driving my nephew around and he says out of the clear blue "my dad flicked Emmitt" :jawdrop :hissyfit :banghead So of course I proceed to ask him why and he says "because he kept whining when my dad told him not too" I was so furious, I couldn't see straight. I mean ds was 20mo and was barely verbal. On top of that he is very compliant and reserved, and rarely, rarely cries or whines. It's just that the punitive mindset doesn't allow for any feelings other than happy, and to me it was so sad that they've trained their kids to think that whining, fussing, or any other normal toddler behavior is "bad" or needs to be corrected.

As far as my nephews go, I NEVER tell on them. To me, if there's an issue while I'm watching them, I'll take care of it, that's why they left me in charge in the first place right? I've always been that way though, even as a teenager when I knew I was babysitting for spanking parents. I think part of it may be a hold over from my childhood, when we knew we'd gotten in trouble with our sitter and went to bed afraid of the morning when we'd have to see our parents. I remember that pit in my tummy in the mornings wondering if the sitter would have said anything that my parents would decide to spank us for. I'm not going to put any kid through that, regardless.

[catholicapmom]

Ick. :sick My punitive parents used to spank my brother and I with a wooden spoon like one you would cook with. They even drew a smiley face on it. :neutral :sick

I don't know what I'd do in your situation. I don't think I'd quit babysitting. I think I'd probably try to use it as an opportunity to show her that punitive methods don't work. :shrug

[MarynMunchkins]

I had a friend's little boy tell me something like that while his mom was sitting right there. I smiled and said "Honey, we don't hit other people in our family. Spatulas are for making cake."

:shifty

[Titus2Momof4]

I had a friend's little boy tell me something like that while his mom was sitting right there. I smiled and said "Honey, we don't hit other people in our family. Spatulas are for making cake."

:shifty
:laughtears

[euromom]

If she says that again, about the spatula, I think I will mention that it is used for making cake :tu

I have been able to use some GBD with them. One thing I noticed was that when my ds did something he is not suppose to, or touched something he is "not suppose to" the 4 yr old will yell "NO _____!" So I said to her "He is not use to being yelled at like that. If you don't want him to touch your art project you can say (and modeled a nice but firm tone) " _____, I don't like it when you touch that" And the next time he tried to touch her art project she said it exactly so! :tu :grin

[hey mommy]

Oh wow.. I'm sad a 4 yr. old told you that!! How sad....

[Sarai]

I had a friend's little boy tell me something like that while his mom was sitting right there. I smiled and said "Honey, we don't hit other people in our family. Spatulas are for making cake."

:shifty


Perfect!

[Nightingale]

when Kiandra was just a few months old, I was babysitting a little girl who must have been 3 or 4 at the time. We were at my house. I was making zucchini bread, and using a wooden spoon to mix.

her: Is that your spanking spoon?
me: :hunh no! It's a wooden spoon that I use to mix stuff up.
her: oh, do you spank Kiandra with it?
Me: No...I don't.
Her: Oh, will you spank her with it when she gets older?
Me: Ummm...no, I don't think so. It's just my cooking spoon.


My sister babysat for these people, and they spanked for everything (Ezzo and tripp followers). They had a "spanking spoon" in their van so it would always be handy. :bheart

[doubleblessings]

Well, if she askes how they were I normally respond "They were fine." But when she asks "Did they obey?" That's a little more direct, it's a yes or no answer. Now for me I don't require first time obedience, so yeah, probably eventually they obeyed and she doesn't ask specifically if they obeyed the first time I asked something, she just asks if they obeyed, so I guess I could still say "yes they obeyed" even though they did not obey the first time :shrug


I think Jesus would say they "obeyed" even if it wasn't the "first time"

Mat21:28-31 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
Which of the two did what his father wanted?
'The first,' they answered."

[mommy2abigail]

Thanks for reminding me about that parable!!! I need to re-read it with dh.

[CelticJourney]

When I worked in the nursery the worst behaved children were the Ezzo'd children The policy was to not tell the parents what went wrong unless it involved injury to another child they may be contacted by another mother about. We would say, "Everything is fine,"

Same here. No need to add to their burden unless absolutely necessary. It has the added benefit of giving the child a 'safe place' if they need it.

[4MKfam]

Okay. Here's a new tangent. Please bear in mind, I'm kinda new at this GBD stuff, so here goes --it will probably be worded "incorrectly," so please bear with --it's my honest reaction.
Does it bother anyone else that a 4 year old is giving a mom (and not even her own mom) "discipline" advice? I see a problem here in the 4 year old giving a grownup advice on how to handle a situation a mom is already dealing with in the way she sees fit. I guess what I see happening here is that the 4yo felt threatened by having his sister's toy played with and simply wanted something to be done in the way he was used to, but is there a place to clarify to the child who has the authority to decide how things should be dealt with? :duck Please educate me on this one.

[mamaKristin]

I would see it as less "advice" but more a reflection on this child's reality. :shrug My niece was asking me about what my kids got spanked for last summer when we were visiting. She was curious as to how things work in our family. She has very rarely been spanked, and was still shocked that we don't spank, because she knows it's the 'final line of defense' in her family.

[beccafromlalaland]

My 2.5 yr old Neice tried to get my sister to spank me today. :rolleyes

[4MKfam]

I guess what I'm :scratch about is the lack of relation between respect for and understanding what authority is and spanking. I'm having a hard time with words today (can you tell?? :lol). Another way to say it --my parents spanked me. In our house, you didn't tell mom or dad and definitely NOT another mom or dad how to deal with a discipline matter. That was their job. While I can certainly understand why a 4 year old would say that (his boundaries were being threatened and he was posing a solution that he experienced to be effective), it still makes me a little :hunh when I hear that kind of (okay --probably un-GBD talk here again... being honest... this is a new paradigm for me) disrespect (in my definition), especially from families that spank.

ETA: maybe I need another thread here --I'm really curious about how the concepts of respect and authority play out in a GBD world.

[Rabbit]

Okay. Here's a new tangent. Please bear in mind, I'm kinda new at this GBD stuff, so here goes --it will probably be worded "incorrectly," so please bear with --it's my honest reaction.
Does it bother anyone else that a 4 year old is giving a mom (and not even her own mom) "discipline" advice? I see a problem here in the 4 year old giving a grownup advice on how to handle a situation a mom is already dealing with in the way she sees fit. I guess what I see happening here is that the 4yo felt threatened by having his sister's toy played with and simply wanted something to be done in the way he was used to, but is there a place to clarify to the child who has the authority to decide how things should be dealt with? :duck Please educate me on this one.


I never have a problem with a child giving me advice, regardless of their age. That doesn't negate my authority. I assume they're just trying to be helpful, and reflecting the way adults help each other. She's learning how to be an adult. I also don't believe that just because I have the final say means that I should have the only say.

-Natalie

[AmyDoll]

I never have a problem with a child giving me advice, regardless of their age. That doesn't negate my authority. I assume they're just trying to be helpful, and reflecting the way adults help each other. She's learning how to be an adult. I also don't believe that just because I have the final say means that I should have the only say.
-Natalie


:yes Sam gives me advice. He's such a little problem solver. I don't want him to stop telling me what he thinks. :shrug Discipline - bc we're gentle can be done by anyone and to anyone. I expect that Sam will discipline Nicholas. "Not for baby, play with this one." and if he offered me a suggestion that fit with our family that's OK too :)

[milkmommy]

I too have nothing against a child giving advice even bad advice what Irikes me is if I give a request rule demand whatever to someone in my care and then another child says no they don't have to listen. I'll give an example of each.
#1 Over the summer I was watching my DD play with her cousin (DD 3 hes 4) at one point DD grabed a toy and kinda pushed him. I intervined had her return the toy and make ammends. He told me she needed to be spanked :sad2. While it saddened me he thought this It didn't bother me its what hes been taught (an eye for and eye type discipline) I just answered and gave why we didn't and moved on. In this case I found the childs comments age appropiate (sad but not a "behavior" issue)

#2 Were sharing a timeshare space with DH sister and her kids including her then 4 year old DD DD is 2.5 at this time. In the condo is a fireplace and SIL kids (ages 1 3 4 7 at the time) are climbing all over it. I set a boundry for my DD and tell her she may not climb onto the fire place and my reasons. THe 4 year old say She can climb up here if she wants and she doesn't need to listen to me. :no2 Now I still think its being 4 but... its completely inappropiate and while I of course wont discipline a child thats not mine I will enforce the boundry towards my child.

Deanna

[snlmama]

Okay. Here's a new tangent. Please bear in mind, I'm kinda new at this GBD stuff, so here goes --it will probably be worded "incorrectly," so please bear with --it's my honest reaction.
Does it bother anyone else that a 4 year old is giving a mom (and not even her own mom) "discipline" advice? I see a problem here in the 4 year old giving a grownup advice on how to handle a situation a mom is already dealing with in the way she sees fit. I guess what I see happening here is that the 4yo felt threatened by having his sister's toy played with and simply wanted something to be done in the way he was used to, but is there a place to clarify to the child who has the authority to decide how things should be dealt with? :duck Please educate me on this one.


Actually I do see what you are saying and I do agree w/ you in some cases. The way this was worded it sounded as if the 4 year old was simply trying to be helpful. Maybe his mom asks him to get the spatula for her to spank his sister or something. :shrug Now, when I have issues where another child outright *tells* me how to discipline my child I simply say, "I see you are upset. I am his Mommy and I'll take care of it." :shrug But, I do always find it odd when a child that age or even a little older seems to think they know better how to handle it than I do. :rolleyes2

[Mamatoto]

Who came up with this spatula idea?? My old pastor's wife used to go in the church kitchen to get it out before taking her dd to the bathroom. :no2

[euromom]

Okay. Here's a new tangent. Please bear in mind, I'm kinda new at this GBD stuff, so here goes --it will probably be worded "incorrectly," so please bear with --it's my honest reaction.
Does it bother anyone else that a 4 year old is giving a mom (and not even her own mom) "discipline" advice? I see a problem here in the 4 year old giving a grownup advice on how to handle a situation a mom is already dealing with in the way she sees fit. I guess what I see happening here is that the 4yo felt threatened by having his sister's toy played with and simply wanted something to be done in the way he was used to, but is there a place to clarify to the child who has the authority to decide how things should be dealt with? :duck Please educate me on this one.


Actually I do see what you are saying and I do agree w/ you in some cases. The way this was worded it sounded as if the 4 year old was simply trying to be helpful. Maybe his mom asks him to get the spatula for her to spank his sister or something. :shrug Now, when I have issues where another child outright *tells* me how to discipline my child I simply say, "I see you are upset. I am his Mommy and I'll take care of it." :shrug But, I do always find it odd when a child that age or even a little older seems to think they know better how to handle it than I do. :rolleyes2


Yeah, her tone with me was more matter of fact. Ds was "disobeying" me, continuing to go back to the toy he was told not to touch, and so in her mind that equals an automatic spanking. She doesn't know any other way for a situation like that to be dealt with :bheart I think she was just trying to be "helpful" to me since I was in her home, offering to show me where something is, in this case a spatula :hunh , thinking I needed it while I was there. It saddened and shocked me to hear that from a 4 yr old and it is so sad that she doesn't know anyother way and though I knew they spanked I was a bit shocked at the realization that they use a spatula :bheart :cry I babysit them again tomorrow morning. I do this twice a week. I think it is a good opportunity to model GBD.

[4MKfam]

Yeah. After thinking about my post, I realized that the issue you were expressing concern over was the child's reaction to how to deal with the situation (going right for physical punishment), rather than the attitude behind it. I did start another thread in the Gentle Discipline forum --I've been having some questions about respect and authority (got a 6 and a 3 year old --life these days kind of lends itself to those kinds of issues :grin), so I think the mental picture I had of what you described wasn't accurate. Thanks for bearing with me and clarifying.

[euromom]

No problem :hug

[musicmama]

My sister babysat for these people, and they spanked for everything (Ezzo and tripp followers). They had a "spanking spoon" in their van so it would always be handy.

I babysat for some friends last year who are very strict Ezzo followers and they had a spoon in their kitchen, living room, their room, both bathrooms, the basement, 2 in the hallway, one in each kids room, one in the garage and one in each car. In their "instruction booklet" it instructed what the kids got spanked for and how they did it. I need a very hot, long shower after babysitting them to get all the slime off, and spent a *long* time in prayer! It's so sad!!! :hissyfit

[fourbygrace]

I really appreciate doubleblessings sharing that parable in Matthew. It is just what I needed to clarify my thoughts and a good response to explain why I see that first time obedience is not biblical.

For the OP, I pray you will have wisdom as you babysit.

Blessings,
Mary

[Knitted_in_the_womb]

Who came up with this spatula idea?? My old pastor's wife used to go in the church kitchen to get it out before taking her dd to the bathroom. :no2


And you just wonder...do they wash it when they are done, or just pop it back into the utensil drawer?

I think a mom came up with the idea because it was handy.

Jenn

[snlmama]

Who came up with this spatula idea?? My old pastor's wife used to go in the church kitchen to get it out before taking her dd to the bathroom. :no2


And you just wonder...do they wash it when they are done, or just pop it back into the utensil drawer?


Ewww. and that thought has always kinda grossed me out too. W/ spatulas and wooden spoons since I cook w/ those a lot. :sick2

[TulipMama]

I threw our spanking spoon out of the window of our 15th floor apartment in Ukraine, the day I told the boys I wasn't going to be spanking them again. They still remember that vividly. And I think it got the point across to them AND ME that using kitchen utensils for hitting was no longer acceptable in our home.

(And yes, I looked first, so no one would get hit!)

[Rbonmom]

I think it's because lots of spanking proponents suggest a wooden spoon, so then a spatula would seem to be the logical extention... I remember we always had wooden spoons, spatulas, ping pong paddles, and belts used on us as kids. When I was living with my parents a few months back, my sister had been spanking her boys in the room I was living in and left the wooden spoon on my bed. It made me feel so sick.

My parents once read something about how a ping pong paddle worked best on older kids so I remember them making a special trip with all of us to the toy store to buy one (we were like 12, 10, and 8 at the time) They also read that it hurt more if you bent over and held your ankles so there were a few times when they lined us all up like that. That just is so :sick2

[Atarah]

They also read that it hurt more if you bent over and held your ankles so there were a few times when they lined us all up like that. That just is so :sick2


:shiver I' don't really remember (blocked out, I suppose) the pain of the spankings I recieved, but the refrain 'bend over and grab your ankles' and the sound of a man's belt being removed still rings in my ears.... ugh :shiver :cry


now back to your original topic.....

[Beth1231]

Spatulas HURT! My dad only used that once on me and my brother and I remember the look of shock on his face when he heard us literally screaming. He said later that he would never use that again (he stuck with the wooden potholder with a handle which hurt also, but not like a spatula). It is awful to see something that is used to hit you used as a household item..like to mix a cake or put a hot pot on. It's cruel. Sorry, major tangent here.