So tell me why you don't like Abeka??

[Titus2Momof4]

We began our "formal" homeschooling journey last year with Abeka (K5 & Nursery 3's). We still have about 1/2 of our books left (I bought all the books and started cover-to-cover), and slightly more for my preschooler --ho barely has enough attention span to do 1pg per day, so it's taking a bit longer, but that's ok--when she's ready, I'll move her up, but at this point, she just turned 4, and cannot identify letters or numbers...she *knows* them, and counts/says her alphabet beautifully-she also "reads" by looking at the pictures, etc...but she doesn't identify them yet. And, she just turned 4, so I'm not worried about this-we are still working on it daily. Oh, and she's also great with bible memory verses. :)

So, I kinda got discouraged last year by us not finishing our Abeka books. I know a lot played into that though. Without getting into every detail of my life... I just didn't have *time* (I was in on-campus school, for starters), and we fell behind...so that's why we still have so much left we can do/learn from. So, I totally wanted to go Waldorf this year, but essentially what it came down to was, didn't have enough money for a curriculum. why spend the $ when I have all this good Abeka left? kids loved doing their schoolwork, etc...

But I know I have read here people not liking Abeka. What don't you like about it?? We enjoy it, and I guess if I'm being honest, the only reason we wanted to quit (I learned this while talking to a waldorf friend who kinda had me "list" my pros and cons--turns out I only had 1 con) was because of the workload. Well, Now I have time to do the workload, so that isnt' an issue. Please don't be too harsh... but why don't you care for it? We'll most likely be sticking with it at this point, so...whatever. Maybe throw a waldorf flare in, and I might consider Oak Meadow one day, but dh seems more comfortable with Abeka than the Waldorf, after talking to him about it.

[blessedw/4]

:popcorn

I have considered Abeka before ... went another route, but would be very interested in the answers here

[Bonnie]

For the record, I've never used it, we're not to the point of choosing curriculum yet...but a couple of reasons I'm not drawn to it are that it's too structured, from what I can tell it's planned out a little too cookie-cutter like, and if you have a child who ploughs on ahead in one subject but is slower in another, you'd have to basically rewrite the lesson plans because they don't allow for that. Like I said, it's hearsay, but I've seen similar set ups with ...crud, I can't think of the name of it right off the bat. Sonlight? Yeah, that was it. Anyway, the other reason I'm not looking into it much further was from a conversation I had with someone about the History curriculum, and it appears that they keep up with the American tradition of heroifying our founding fathers and early history to the point that they're not believable people and whitewashing our history to where the US can do no wrong. I'd like something a little more balanced, a little more of an international world view.

Those are the negatives...I've also heard lots of positive, but those two are both deal breakers for me, personally.

[Katigre]

I had major issues with their science and history curriculums factually and philosophically - particularly the ones designed for middle school and high school.

[4Cygnets]

I don't like the workload. I am not doing "school at home," so I don't need a curriculum that models what they'd get in a Christian school. I have a mixed curriculum that I choose myself.

FTR, you can pick and choose what you do and don't need to finish every page in every book. Even when I was teaching in a school we didn't finish the books every year.

[Titus2Momof4]

I know what you mean. Abeka, Sonlight, BJU.....they all seem to attract the "school at home" crowd, and I can see why. I guess, for me... I also found that during the 6 months we were "unschooling", we weren't *actually* schooling, if that makes sense? Like, I got so fed up with us being behind with Abeka, that I declared that we were unschooling. I had lots of good *ideas*, and lots of good ways to make unschooling happen.. but maybe it's just me--for whatever reason, that's all it was....was just *ideas*. I never got around to making it actually *happen*. I applaud those of you who can do this, but for us, when we were unschooling, it took off a lot of pressure....but perhaps too much. We got a little *too* relaxed, to where we really weren't doing anything, I didn't have time for trips to the library or science center or museum or zoo or whatever.. And basically we were doing pretty much nothing. Abeka has kept me on track. If for no other reason, it's already there, lessons are already laid out, and I can just look at it and say "ok, this is what we are doing today". Again, I have respect for the unschoolers, but for us it just didn't work... I need something that keeps me focused, otherwise, we fall off track. Anyone else like this?? :blush

[Bonnie]

That's one of the reasons I'm semi-considering Sonlight, only without the lesson plans. They address the philosophical issues I have with Abeka (well put, Raquelita), but are still very structured. Might work around it or something.

[Titus2Momof4]

Well, I didn't actually buy the lesson plans (but I think next time I will) for Abeka. But at the bottom of each page there is a "L_" (for instance L34)...meaning, those are the lesson numbers. And so if you are on Lesson 34, for example you'll find that that doesn't have you doing every book, everyday. Lesson 34 might only be 3 subjects, for instance. I didn't buy the lesson plans, because I figured I could make my own lesson plans (I can) and decide for us what we want to do for that day, and see how it corresponds... but if you buy the lesson plans it'd make it even easier, because you wouldn't have to look over it all ahead of time or anything-you can just do the lessons that they say go together. Money was tight, though, so that's why I didn't buy lesson plans. You really don't need Teachers Editions, because frankly, I know the answers to all my kids' work lol... The only thing that really comes in handy with IMO is like if they say "listen to the blend your teacher says, and write the blend"....the teachers edition would tell you what words to say....but I always just made up a blend, no big deal. As long as they write it, that's what counts.

[Wonder Woman]

I totallly agree about the philosophical issues w/Abeka...it's rabidly pro-American. To the point where my little brother marched up to my dh and said "It's a shame you Canadians don't have such a colorful history as we Americans do." :jawdrop :hunh My dh educated him on the finer points of history that he'd missed out on (world history lol) and my little bro did have the grace to look abashed.

I'd never use it for my half-Canadian half-American ds :shrug as it basically denies half of his heritage. God isn't a white Republican, but that's what I grew up thinking after 10 years of Abeka :shifty

It did have it's good points - spelling, grammar, literature...but the other stuff.... :shiver

[SueQ]

So tell me why you don't like Abeka??

I don't like using workbooks but rather would prefer my children learn from reading "real" living books. Books that are alive and get their curiosity going. We use living books for them to learn history, science, geography, grammer, etc. My boys respond better to them than to workbooks. :)

Also it doesn't fit my philosophy that all of life is a classroom. As an adult I am still learning and learning is a lifestyle. I don't want my children to loose their love of books, History, and learning like my dh has. He got burned out on books and learning through school. Which I think is sad. :bheart When we were at the OBX, I had to drag him to the Wright Brother's Memorial and to Festival Park. He enjoyed himself once he was there but his school experiences tainted his love of learning and how he views History. I don't want that for my sons rather I want them to love learning and seek to keep learning new things about everything the rest of their lives.

[Titus2Momof4]

See, I guess I don't get this history objection, because so far we have only seen K5 history, which is actually Social Studies, and the first portion of the book dealt with community people (police, teacher, vet, nurse, dr, president, etc), and the rest of the book is about kids/people from different countries/cultures. Of course it starts with Americans/the flag, etc, and then went into other kids. The other day we were doing Peru, yesterday we did England, next is the Netherlands, etc. I haven't seen any books from the older kids's group. Is this American History, though? Maybe that would explain the emphasis on America? Or was it World History? (What were they calling it, that is) So are you saying you avoid anything Abeka because you don't like their history? I'm trying to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what someone is saying.

[Wonder Woman]

So are you saying you avoid anything Abeka because you don't like their history? I'm trying to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what someone is saying.


no, I'm avoiding anything Abeka for lots of reasons - that's always just the first one that comes to mind ;)

I actually find Abeka to be very smug, for lack of a better word. :shrug There are some things in life that are absolutes - the Word of God, Heaven, etc. But there are a WHOLE lot of variables that IMO Abeka teaches as absolutes.

For instance, my memory of the 9-12th literature program (please bear in mind that I graduated in 93!) is that we were instructed what to draw out of the stories. They did allow some secular resources in the curriculum, but the essays we were told to write and the questions to be answered had to line up with the TE or they were 'wrong'. And I happen to believe that *my* opinion on what an author meant was as valid as someone else's opinion on what the author meant :shrug That's a variable.

It played very well into the mindset I grew up with - it didn't matter what you did, as long as you could look right/say the correct answer/quote the right verse/not get caught. :shrug

And honestly, that probably colors my perspective of the curriculum - by high school I was enraged at the injustice in that, so I didn't appreciate it in school too :giggle

[Titus2Momof4]

Funny--now that you mention it, I remember getting frustrated in highschool english (I went to a college prep school/school for gifted and talented). I got annoyed because I felt like, ok this author is saying ABC, but we are supposed to get XYZ out of it...well, how do you know for a fact that my 123 isn't right?? He *said* ABC..that's the only thing he actually *said*....so why can't I be right too? LOL I remember one of my english teachers (whom I loved) was always pretty open. She accepted the fact that there could be different views of what the author is saying, and as long as you could support what you said with good reasoning (iow, point to something in the book that would explain why you said that, don't just pull something outta thin air), then she accepted it. I tend to be like that myself in life, with things I read...like I know two people can very well read the exact same books on breastfeeding, on vaccinations, on schooling, on anything....and come to two totally different views. Same with high school literature LOL

[jlschock]

I use Abeka.  Mostly because my SIL uses it and she gave me her teacher guides and stuff.  But I don't do everything.  There is just no way.  we would go crazy.  I use it as a guide. I keep a close watch of my son's attention span, when that's gone we are done.  If we didn't cover everything then we come back to it later.  My SIL is starting to change gears now that her ds is in 5th grade.  I think I will eventually pick and choose also.  So I am starting with Abeka because it is Bible based (although I don't use the Bible curriculum) structured, cheap (because of my SIL), and I like the phonics.  I do not plan to use Abeka all the way through elementary school let alone 12th.  I will look at my kids and pick a cirriculum by what they need more of here and less of there.  But right now I consider myself a relaxed Abeka.

Go with what works for you and your kids and don't be discouraged by the work load. You do not have to do everything.

[Piper2]

I don't use Abeka, partly because it seems everyone else around me is using it, and I like to be different. :shifty Seriously, my brother's wife has used it since they started homeschooling back in 2000 or 2001 (she also used to teach at a Christian school that used it), and she's one of these people who thinks that if you don't something the way she does it, you're wrong. :rolleyes And since my niece is so smart, my mother thinks it's because they use Abeka, so she was sort of pushing me to use it, and I just...I guess I'm rebellious. :O

Although at one point, I was actually very willing to look into Abeka, and I hung around the Abeka table at the homeschool conference looking at stuff and appearing very interested. Of course, at most of those vendor booths, if you slow down within 10 feet of them, they're on top of you, but at this one, the guy apparently couldn't care less. So I decided to go with someone who was interested in getting my business. :shrug

I don't know about the philosophical differences people here are talking about (since I haven't used it), but I was put off by how much busywork it calls for. I found Bob Jones to have (or at least require) less while still being Biblically-based, well laid-out, and at the right level for us. My other brother's wife just started homeschooling this year and is using Abeka because that was the only one she'd really heard about, so the bought most of what she needed over the previous year on Ebay. But after she looked around, I think she's leaning towards Bob Jones for next year.

I figure as time goes on, we'll probably do less of the one-publisher curriculum, and I won't say that we'll never use any Abeka. I'll just take it a thing at a time.

[RubySlippers]

I was put off by how much busywork it calls for. I found Bob Jones to have (or at least require) less while still being Biblically-based, well laid-out, and at the right level for us.

:yes I taught Abeka in school for upper grades and it crammed too much info., hated the nit-picky tests and quizzes, etc. The lower grade school level work was much the same, lots of busywork and pushing an attitude I couldn't place my finger on. I could spot Abeka users. FWIW, I think they may be changing their curriculum to make it more kid-friendly.
I like BJU better, more relaxed, character-building, cohesive, fun. We use BJU for three subjects.

[mykidsmom]

I have used Abeka 1/2 K thru 3rd (present). My son is easy to teach. He catches on quickly and loves, loves, loves math so the fact that Abeka is advanced in that department really helps. He has to be challenged or he loses interest. The beginning of the year is hardest for him, because it's all review. He can't stand going over something he's already learned. Abeka is big on review, which can be a little annoying.

For the most part, I like it. We'll keep using it unless I end up with a child who needs a slower learning pace, or something that includes more of his/her best areas of study.

PS We also don't do the whole seatwork thing. That is totally meant to fill "class" time. We just do lessons and workbooks.

[J3K]

I can't stand the fact that Abeka takes scripture out of context.
Science book I looked at "Let's look at feet. God made our feet." The memory verse was "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet."
I screamed at the book "That verse is NOT about feet ! "

Other things...
They paint everyone in history as either a Christian or an enemy. Their take on Thanksgiving is enough to make you vomit.

I don't mind taking a reading book here or there...we are currently reading thru Noah Webter's biography thru them...but overall it's simply shoving God down a child's throat. Imnsvho

[mykidsmom]

They paint everyone in history as either a Christian or an enemy. Their take on Thanksgiving is enough to make you vomit.



History has been so rewritten in the last few decades that it's near impossible (unless you decide to go back to oldest recollections of history) to know what really happened or who was really what. Frankly, I'm sick of texts turning every person in history into some immoral, deist, etc. type person. I watched a documentary in this last year that insisted Abraham Lincoln was gay. :hunh Sure, o.k. Talk about shoving something down someone's throat... :no2

[Wonder Woman]

They paint everyone in history as either a Christian or an enemy. Their take on Thanksgiving is enough to make you vomit.



History has been so rewritten in the last few decades that it's near impossible (unless you decide to go back to oldest recollections of history) to know what really happened or who was really what. Frankly, I'm sick of texts turning every person in history into some immoral, deist, etc. type person. I watched a documentary in this last year that insisted Abraham Lincoln was gay. :hunh Sure, o.k. Talk about shoving something down someone's throat... :no2


:shrug I have no problem saying that George Washington's Christianity was very, very, very different from my own. He wasn't an evangelical or a fundie - not a Baptist or Pentecostal or Methodist. :shrug And I always took away the feeling that Abeka very much homogenized history.

[Quiteria]

I know what you mean. Abeka, Sonlight, BJU.....they all seem to attract the "school at home" crowd, and I can see why. I guess, for me... I also found that during the 6 months we were "unschooling", we weren't *actually* schooling, if that makes sense? Like, I got so fed up with us being behind with Abeka, that I declared that we were unschooling. I had lots of good *ideas*, and lots of good ways to make unschooling happen.. but maybe it's just me--for whatever reason, that's all it was....was just *ideas*. I never got around to making it actually *happen*. I applaud those of you who can do this, but for us, when we were unschooling, it took off a lot of pressure....but perhaps too much. We got a little *too* relaxed, to where we really weren't doing anything, I didn't have time for trips to the library or science center or museum or zoo or whatever.. And basically we were doing pretty much nothing. Abeka has kept me on track. If for no other reason, it's already there, lessons are already laid out, and I can just look at it and say "ok, this is what we are doing today". Again, I have respect for the unschoolers, but for us it just didn't work... I need something that keeps me focused, otherwise, we fall off track. Anyone else like this?? :blush

:yes :O
I tried to unschool dd for preschool, and about all we did was bedtime stories, and random ones at that. I ended up sending her to school, so I'm not much help evaluating curriculum...but you aren't alone in needing structure. As I've browsed forums, it is a common trait that I've heard--some need structure, some need freedom. Personally, judging by how I taught in the classroom before SAH, I do best with a structure and then I deviate from there. If given complete freedom, I get stuck in inertia...I come up with so many ideas that I can't get started, I never quite track down the right books or get all the supplies lined up in time or even just get the decisions made about what's best...With a curriculum, I gave my class what I deemed most important from the chapter (skipping less-useful pages, combining short lessons, or stretching out difficult lessons, adjusting for holidays, etc.), added creative activites as I saw fit, like games, science experiments, trips, etc. using some of what they suggested and some of what I'd thought up, and then I read the test to delete/add questions to better match what we had done, if we learned a lot extra or if we had skipped something nitpicky.

That approach gave me enough creativity to not get bored, but enough structure to stay on track--if I was short on time, I plowed ahead with the suggested lesson instead of being stumped.

[Wonder Woman]

just to clarify btw - I'm a very patriotic American ;) who has residences on both sides of the border - my issue with Abeka is not an issue of patriotism. It's the fact that one-sided history does true patriotism no favors. :shrug

in much the same manner that I don't believe in religious isolation of my son or family, I don't believe in ideological isolation either.

[illinoismommy]

:popcorn

[Irene]

Rebecca, did we go to the same school??? :lol Im not a big fan of Abeka either, for the reasons rebecca stated... and its just too much "school at home' for me, and then, what Lisa said, *everyone* around here does it, so that means I wont :shifty :lol

I do worry about not having a curriculum as well, like we will end up doing nothing at all because I am so clueless and I kind of like structure too :O so Im not sure how to unschool and have structure all at the same time, but thats another thread I guess ;)

[ArmsOfLove]

My dh is the only one I know more patriotic than me ;) and I'm pretty sure it was the Abeka history stories that dh went :scratch :rolleyes2 It's not about history having been rewritten recently, it's about presenting one narrow and overly fantasized view of history :shifty

I don't like the school in a box approach so I don't like schools in boxes and it's too much busywork

[Beth1231]

Well...here is a perspective from someone who was taught under Abeka and also was forced to use it during student teaching (the last semester for an education major). As a typical first born, I loved reading early and Abeka was great for me if you consider teaching a five year old that her worth is dependant on what she can do right great :mad I went through school (both homeschool and Christian school) with Abeka and it helped to give me a very unpleasant intolerant attitude towards anyone or anything that didin't preach black and white (like I was being taught). I will say all that work taught me study skills and helped to give me a great memory. Speed forward about ten years and now I'm forcing six year olds who want to run and climb to sit in little desks and do page after page after PAGE of worksheets. The ideas to make the lessons interesting were terribly behind the times and I was disgusted that my parents had missed out on so many awesome options to teach me things that I struggled with. To sum it up, Abeka will not be included in my way down the road homeschooling future.

[mykidsmom]

religious isolation

What is freeing (if that's a word) about removing all "religious" connotations from history? I know as I was growing up in public school I became very aware of history changing. It happened in a major way throughout my PS education. I wasn't taught to look for these things, I noticed them. I noticed how Connie Chung was considered a hero in my history book because she held a high level position at a major news network. I noticed the bias in politics, etc. PS education IS religious isolation. It isolates religion from the text.

As a typical first born, I loved reading early and Abeka was great for me if you consider teaching a five year old that her worth is dependant on what she can do right great :mad


:heart I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience with homeschool. I know that my son has never felt unworthy, because I've never given him a reason to.

[Wonder Woman]

religious isolation

What is freeing (if that's a word) about removing all "religious" conotations from history? I know as I was growing up in public school I became very aware of history changing. It happened in a major way throughout my PS education. I wasn't taught to look for these things, I noticed them. I noticed how Connie Chung was considered a hero in my history book because she held a high level position at a major news network. I noticed the bias in politics, etc. PS education IS religious isolation. It isolates religion from the text.




what I meant was: I don't raise my child to think that my denomination is 100% correct, that we have God in our own personal corner, and that everyone else (that's a whole lot of billions!) is wrong. I teach him that we are serving God the best we know how, that we pray for God to lead us, and that we pray for God to lead everyone else around us as well. To do otherwise would be religious isolationism.

And idealogical isolationism (our country is the absolute best, we are the favored among nations, all world history was only to lead up to the culmination of the US, we can do no wrong, and proof-texted history to support that) isn't something I'm crazy over either. :giggle

Maybe this should be spun off in IF? :hug

[Katigre]

idealogical isolationism (our country is the absolute best, we are the favored among nations, all world history was only to lead up to the culmination of the US, we can do no wrong, and proof-texted history to support that) isn't something I'm crazy over either. :giggle
This is why I will not use Abeka history curriculum. They did all of these things over and over and it was just wrong - like teaching that Manifest Destiny was some sort of God-ordained American birth-right that was carried out in the most moral way possible - gag me!!!! :td

[Titus2Momof4]

PS We also don't do the whole seatwork thing. That is totally meant to fill "class" time. We just do lessons and workbooks.

This is something I never understood (maybe because I never bought the lesson plan books?) What is "seatwork"?? We did not do the DVD Academy, nor did we do the Academy at all...we just did the "I buy the books in each subject, and we do them" approach. I did not buy any "kits" (because I felt like a lot of what they were including was stuff I could get elsewhere, like the visuals-I have gone to the teacher store to buy visuals before..don't have to have them from Abeka..)So we have: Letters & Sounds, Writing with Phonics, Number Skills, Numbers Writing Tablet, God's World (can't find that one since the move tho!), Social Studies, and the Crafts book. Where does "seatwork" come into play? I guess I ask because all of our work is "seat work" LOL They sit down to do their workbooks...at the dining table, on the floor, at the coffee table, etc)

can't stand the fact that Abeka takes scripture out of context.
Science book I looked at "Let's look at feet. God made our feet." The memory verse was "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet."
I screamed at the book "That verse is NOT about feet ! "


No, it's about the Bible being one's "guide"...guiding our steps......but the verse does *reference* feet...so when they look at the verse (kids) perhaps they can relate it to themselves when they understand that God made their feet? I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that's me.

[Katigre]

can't stand the fact that Abeka takes scripture out of context.
Science book I looked at "Let's look at feet. God made our feet." The memory verse was "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet."
I screamed at the book "That verse is NOT about feet ! "

No, it's about the Bible being one's "guide"...guiding our steps......but the verse does *reference* feet...so when they look at the verse (kids) perhaps they can relate it to themselves when they understand that God made their feet? I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that's me.
In the science curriculum Scripture is sometimes used to 'prove' scientific facts which really bothers me. So a verse from Psalms is used to show how God created wind patterns, or a verse about blood is used to show how God revealed the workings of circulation in his Word, etc...

[illinoismommy]

From my understanding, The Story Of the World for history is "too Christian" for secular folk, but some Christians say its not Christian enough. That sounds perfect for me.... so we'll probably use it.

[2ds1dd]

We are in our 3rd year of ABeka {we are doing 3rd and 1st}.

We started because it was the easiest way to get around the state laws {Joe fails standardized testing and we didn't want him in VA schools because that's their main teaching focus} and it's what he used in private school for K.

We have continued because in our opinion it's just so easy! If you follow the lesson plan it's a tiny bit of work each day {until 3rd - LOL}.

The things we do with it :

* I pull out the whole week's "Lessons" on Sunday night and just work thru the week with the kids at their pace. {I started this last year.}

* For K, 1, and 2 I didn't {and still don't} use any of the books they sent beyond what is "required for testing" for ABeka. That means I don't use their Science or History or Bible or daily-Reading.

* This year with 3rd things got a bit trickier because we now have Science, Health, and History testing. So what I've done is I will go thru the tests and see what ABeka thinks are the key-testing-points. I will teach those and then go in whatever direction with the subject that the kids want to go in. I do not stick to the books. {Personally I find them a bit dull.} BUT the pictures in the Science book are great!

* Yes for History so far it's all US History, but we also incorporate other countries. When we went to FL/Disney we spent a day at Epcot and had the kids learn 1 thing about each country. We play geographic games at dinner with the globe. And we have decided to pick one country a year to learn about - This year in the Spring we will be learning about Canada as well as some basic French.

I guess the bottom line for us is that we have learned how to utilize the material ABeka sends us to teach our children what we want them to learn.

[mykidsmom]

Where does "seatwork" come into play?

It's in a seperate section of the Teacher Edition. It's like a play-by-play of what to do each day if your teaching a class. It'll tell you what subjects to do, how many pages, etc. It was handed down to me, so that's why I have it. I think it's a perfect tool for teacher's in lcassrooms. My cousin teaches Abeka at a Private School and it really helps her.

The Teacher's Editions are also nice because we have a lesson plan. That way I am teaching our son and then he goes off and does the workbooks according to what he's been learning in our lessons. It works for us. :tu

Oh and about the History being all US History, isn't that normal for at least grades 3 and under? I don't remember learning World History until later grades, like Jr. High. I remember because I was excited to learn about the rest of the world.

[ArmsOfLove]

can't stand the fact that Abeka takes scripture out of context.
Science book I looked at "Let's look at feet. God made our feet." The memory verse was "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet."
I screamed at the book "That verse is NOT about feet ! "

No, it's about the Bible being one's "guide"...guiding our steps......but the verse does *reference* feet...so when they look at the verse (kids) perhaps they can relate it to themselves when they understand that God made their feet? I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that's me.
In the science curriculum Scripture is sometimes used to 'prove' scientific facts which really bothers me. So a verse from Psalms is used to show how God created wind patterns, or a verse about blood is used to show how God revealed the workings of circulation in his Word, etc...
I wouldn't mind this, actually, if it was an entire unit study approach and you were studying guidance (a la KONOS ;) ) but to have it *just* be attached to science is less a problem in and of itself and more indicative of a problem within the approach imo.

I've also been talking with Camille about how I admire groups that encourage scripture memorization, but I'm concerned that without context and understanding this lays the foundation for proof texting and pastors to say "The Bible says . . . and that means . . . " and the people just take it in because that verse is there without roots.

[Titus2Momof4]

Well, I guess I'm just confused then, about this "seatwork" and "lesson plans" thing lol.

So, we bought the books (the ones I listed above) last year, and all I have ever done is look at the lesson #s, and typically we'll do two lesson numbers per day (which ever subjects that has us doing). For most of the subjects, I sit right behind them to help and guide them along and teach...for other subjects, they can pretty much do independently (social studies, numbers writing). I think I just remember it had cost too much as it was (had to buy 2 K5 and 1 Nursery 3s), and that's why I didn't get the lesson plans...plus figured I could come up w/my own lesson plans. I kinda wish I had their lesson plans, so that I wouldn't have to think about what goes with what, but that's ok...the plus side to this is that it forces me to look and think and be more involved, than if I had it all laid out. I wouldn't mind having lesson plans, for next year, but only if it's handed down to me, or falls from the sky, or costs a buck.. lol Do you get what I'm saying?? I'm just totally confused with lesson plans/"seatwork", etc...its' all seatwork for us, in the living room, at the coffee table, in the van....

[jghomeschooler]

about seatwork, I think this is also the type of thing where in most TM they tell you exactly what to do and say during the teaching part of the lesson- as if you were standing in front of a room full of kids presenting a lesson. Lots of them can be adapted to suit a homeschooling environment if they are not written specifically for homeschoolers. HTH

[jlschock]

I've also been talking with Camille about how I admire groups that encourage scripture memorization, but I'm concerned that without context and understanding this lays the foundation for proof texting and pastors to say "The Bible says . . . and that means . . . " and the people just take it in because that verse is there without roots.

:yes there are so many instances of this that I can think of just off the top of my head

[Titus2Momof4]

Oh--also had a question about "tests"....?? Someone said (someone who uses Abeka, and said she's still using it) that in the past she didn't focus on the subjects Abeka tests on, but now that the child is older the tests focus on Science and History or something.....what is this about? I didn't know they did testing--is that required?? Or is that when you "enroll" in the Abeka Academy or something? Should we be doing this too??

[mykidsmom]

The Arithmetic, Language, Spelling and History have tests included in the work. If you don't have the Teacher's Edition, it's possible that you don't know about the test booklets and when each test is to be given. I think the Academy does do tests that you send in... but don't quote me on that one. :grin

[J3K]

An experience we had today and thought it might be relevant :

I was reading Noah Webster's biography to the kids. It's a book thru Abeka.

I forget if it was chpt 10 or 11... but at one point the author took her fictional liberties too far imo. She had Noah on his knees doing the whole "I've sinned and need forgiveness" speech. If I'm being honest it really turned my stomach. It felt soooo fake and forced. And completely fictional. We have no idea if Noah Webster ever did that.
From that point in the book on , literally not a page went past where Noah didn't proclaim his faith , or mention how blessed they were , or say that he was following God's will , etc...

I won't be reading another Abeka book to the kids. My dd's (both saved) agreed that the salvation scene was forced and tacky. My son (not saved) felt it was propaganda. Truthfully I sit somewhere in the middle.

:rolleyes

[mykidsmom]

I'd be interested in knowing where they get their information. Do they have footnotes or site the origin of their information anywhere?

Also, if you google Webster you'll come up with some pretty diverse info. Some sites which don't mention Webster's beliefs at all, some which touch on his beliefs but focus more on his accomplishments, and some which talk mostly about his beliefs. It's hard to figure out who's being true to the person or extreme here, kwim?

Like I said, I'd be interested in where this info comes from. How they decided he had a dramatic conversion (which can be every bit sincere and not a "speech" what-so-ever) and was so open about his faith.

Here's a quote from Webster on Wikipedia, that I thought was interesting:

His 1828 American Dictionary contained the greatest number of Biblical definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless without the Bible."

"In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language )

[ArmsOfLove]

Yes, he was very much a Christian. :tu The issue is the creative license that is presented as fact.

[liamum]

I've also been talking with Camille about how I admire groups that encourage scripture memorization, but I'm concerned that without context and understanding this lays the foundation for proof texting and pastors to say "The Bible says . . . and that means . . . " and the people just take it in because that verse is there without roots

You know, I never thought of this before, but how very true. So would that mean not reading from Children's Bibles either, or is that okay if you've found one that gives a good sense of context?

[ArmsOfLove]

I like most stories I read in children's Bibles! And I'm even :tu about memorizing Scripture. It's nice to have it right there when you need it :grin It's the total lack of context that I find in some approaches to memorization--as though memorizing it were the end goal. As long as you work towards understanding and provide context I think it's great :tu

[Teribear]

My issue with Abeka is just what a PP's son said, it reads to me like propaganda. I think its poorly written and emotionally manipulative in a lot of what I've seen in their readers.

[J3K]

Yes, he was very much a Christian. :tu The issue is the creative license that is presented as fact.

I didn't doubt he was a Christian...but you are right...it's the way it his conversion played out. No foot notes , no "proof"....it was very much a salvation message put into the book. It was so severely out of place , it wasn't a sore thumb it was a sore hand. And then the rest of the book was "God gave us..." or "God did...". When Noah and his wife found out they'd lost their 22yr old daughter...they had him down on his knees thanking God for the time he spent with his daughter. So very blatant that we should always praise and never ask questions or have a sad moment..... I honestly almost didn't finish the book , but we were only X many pages from finishing.

I couldn't find the right words til I read Teribear's post
I think its poorly written and emotionally manipulative in a lot of what I've seen in their readers.


YES ! That's it. It's emotionally manipulative.

[illinoismommy]

... that's interesting... and with such other great Christian material out there (I'm actually thinking of stuff thats not for homeschool but could be cool to read together), no reason to use ones that take creative license to another level... :popcorn

[joandsarah77]

I wouldn't choose Abeka simply because I don't like textbook/workbook type methods. I've read it incorporates a lot of busy work. I don't want to pay for busy work. I like CM and unit studies. I didn't even know about the emotional manipulation in the books, but that would most definatly be another reason I would leave it on the shelf.

[mykidsmom]

I couldn't find the right words til I read Teribear's post
I think its poorly written and emotionally manipulative in a lot of what I've seen in their readers.


YES ! That's it. It's emotionally manipulative.


I guess it would be, according to your POV. From a different perspective, I like to see people have the opposite response from what would normally be expected. You'd expect a sorrowful, tear filled, confused man but instead they (Abeka with some help from scripture) chose a different characteristic, immediate thankfullness. Perhaps they portrayed Noah as someone who had a good understanding of how things "work according to the good", no matter how awful they are at first. He was, afterall, a faith of great faith.

Just so you know, I do see you POV on this. I just wanted to make sure that others knew Abeka isn't a propagandized material, but rather something written with a certain perspective, that may not coinside with yours, but isn't necessarily wrong. :heart

[Wonder Woman]

You'd expect a sorrowful, tear filled, confused man but instead they (Abeka with some help from scripture) chose a different characteristic, immediate thankfullness. Perhaps they portrayed Noah as someone who had a good understanding of how things "work according to the good", no matter how awful they are at first. He was, afterall, a faith of great faith.

:shrug I have lots of faith in God. I still mourned the death of two of my children. My first reaction was not "oh yippee praise God, another child dead!"

Jesus wept at the grave of Lazarus.

Even Job, he of "the Lord gives, and the Lord has taken away, blessed be the name of the Lord" uttered those words as he sat in sackcloth and ashes, scraping his boils with pottery, pouring ashes on his head and rending his clothes.

Mourning is Biblical.

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.

[J3K]

Perhaps they portrayed Noah

Right there is my issue. They portrayed him. They took immense creative license with his faith and that really irks me.
we knew at the beginning of the book the author says "We don't know a lot about Noah's childhood , but we know what a typical childhood would have looked like in the 1700's. By the time Noah goes to college we have his diary entries."

So from that point on...it shoulda been purt much the way it happened.

I don't mind reading faith from another pov. I mind reading when it's so blatant a salvation message thrown in. when it's so obviously out of place and designed specifically so the reader will be manipulated and do the same.

[mykidsmom]

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.

Right there is my issue. They portrayed him. They took immense creative license with his faith and that really irks me.
we knew at the beginning of the book the author says "We don't know a lot about Noah's childhood , but we know what a typical childhood would have looked like in the 1700's. By the time Noah goes to college we have his diary entries."

So from that point on...it shoulda been purt much the way it happened.
For educational purposes, do you have proof that events occured differently? If so, I'd be all for letting Abeka know of your concerns.

[J3K]

The author had the diary. She knew the exact facts. Taking creative license too far isn't historically accurate.
Abeka makes it feel like a sin to read a non-christian book. and that's just wrong.

[Wonder Woman]

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.



perhaps I dare in the same way that you implied that people who mourn aren't following Scripture?

I do know that there is Scriptural precedent for mourning loss.

I do not see anywhere in Scripture where people fell to their knees rejoicing in the death of someone they loved..

And I think this needs to be taken to IF should it need to be further discussed here - I won't engage in it in this thread again.

[Teribear]

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.

Right there is my issue. They portrayed him. They took immense creative license with his faith and that really irks me.
we knew at the beginning of the book the author says "We don't know a lot about Noah's childhood , but we know what a typical childhood would have looked like in the 1700's. By the time Noah goes to college we have his diary entries."

So from that point on...it shoulda been purt much the way it happened.
For educational purposes, do you have proof that events occured differently? If so, I'd be all for letting Abeka know of your concerns.


You seem rather defensive. Its not a personal attack that some of us don't like Abeka.

[Piper2]

I'm sure there's more to Abeka than the Noah Webster story. That may be an example of what some folks generally don't like about the curriculum, but let's please not beat each other over the heads with it, OK? This is a support forum. :O

TBH, I think I ran across a little bit of that same thing with one of our BJUP books last year. But the beauty of homeschooling is that you can teach your children over, around or through things like that so you're not having to sit idly by while they're being "propagandized" or "emotionally manipulated". Skip that story, replace that chapter or explain it according to your own theological understanding the way you want your child to get the lesson.

And if Abeka makes you have to do that too much, choose another curriculum. If not, academically it has a good track record overall, so stick with it. :)

[ArmsOfLove]

The problem is that this literary liberty is being taken with historical situations and factual events and real people. If their bio is available, if their diary is accessible, if other people wrote about what they did at the time, the it's HISTORICALLY INNACURATE to take literary liberty with it. That's the point. IF you want to write a book with Noah Webster or anyone else as a fantasy character to develop your brand of Christian character then say that this is what you are doing. If you present it as history you are lying to children :shrug

[kris10s]

We wouldn't use it because it doesn't match our philosphy of education. :shrug I don't think its the best thing Christian publishing has to offer, but to each their own.

On the NW issue, I think if his diaries, etc. are available and don't portray the story that way, Abeka made the wrong choice and the CONSUMERS have every right to point out what they dislike about it.

[SueQ]

WOW!!! This thread has gotten heated. You know, everyone has curriculum that they like and that they hate. Curriculum is a personal choice and I truly believe that God leads people and families to a particular curriculum for special reasons.

That is why I highly encourage people when choosing a curriculum for their family to first pray. Then browse through and look at curriculum, think about your family, your children's learning style, and your homeschool philosophy. Then choose what you feel God leading you to use.

I made the mistake of not praying first and just choosing when I first began homeschooling and we floundered all around with Math and phonics curriculum. After praying about it I found the perfect math and phonics curriculum for our family that is also the perfect fit for our CM style homeschooling philosophy. ;) Prayer and research are both very important. Asking around helps some but I have found when it comes to using curriculum people have some very strong opinions as this thread has shown. ;)

[Beauty4Ashes]

Could I just ask., as one who went to a Christian school that used Abeka...does it say in the teacher's manual that as part of seat work the child must copy the multiplication and division tables 1-12, copy verbatim the Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution, etc.? We had to do so much memorization and copying, but I don't think that I really understood then or even now the Gettysburg Address or any of those important documents in the U.S. government's history. Also, just curious again...I remember when in the 6-8th grades there was a science fair. We had to come up with a science project and then a biblical analysis based on what our experiment was. I remember thinking that it sounded so fake and contrived. My dad said that I was an expert at coming up with b.s. because I was able to find a way to tie corrosion at work in with the Bible in some tangental way. Anyway back to your regularly scheduled thread...mine are still too young for h.s. and I don't think that my dh would go along with it...

[mykidsmom]

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.

Right there is my issue. They portrayed him. They took immense creative license with his faith and that really irks me.
we knew at the beginning of the book the author says "We don't know a lot about Noah's childhood , but we know what a typical childhood would have looked like in the 1700's. By the time Noah goes to college we have his diary entries."

So from that point on...it shoulda been purt much the way it happened.
For educational purposes, do you have proof that events occured differently? If so, I'd be all for letting Abeka know of your concerns.


You seem rather defensive. Its not a personal attack that some of us don't like Abeka.


It didn't get personal when the other poster said people were in denial for mourning a certain way???? I happen to know a woman who mourned in such a way. She lost her lifelong husband who she dearly loved, at age 60. All she could say was, "Thank you God, for giving him to me." No immediate crying, no wailing or falling to the ground... and people had the nerve to say she was cold. She mourned in her own way. She cried in privacy. She was a private person. She wasn't in denial. She wasn't cold.


And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.



perhaps I dare in the same way that you implied that people who mourn aren't following Scripture?

I do know that there is Scriptural precedent for mourning loss.

I do not see anywhere in Scripture where people fell to their knees rejoicing in the death of someone they loved..

And I think this needs to be taken to IF should it need to be further discussed here - I won't engage in it in this thread again.


I never implied or stated any such thing.


The only reason I even continued this "debate" was because I thought Abeka was being unfairly portrayed and I wanted to make sure other's knew it wasn't exactly what people were making it out to be. Like any curriculm, it is what you make of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and POV and I certainly tried to validate your POV, while trying to show that there were other POVs that were equally valid.

[mykidsmom]

Could I just ask., as one who went to a Christian school that used Abeka...does it say in the teacher's manual that as part of seat work the child must copy the multiplication and division tables 1-12, copy verbatim the Declaration of Independence, Preamble to the Constitution, 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution, etc.? We had to do so much memorization and copying, but I don't think that I really understood then or even now the Gettysburg Address or any of those important documents in the U.S. government's history. Also, just curious again...I remember when in the 6-8th grades there was a science fair. We had to come up with a science project and then a biblical analysis based on what our experiment was. I remember thinking that it sounded so fake and contrived. My dad said that I was an expert at coming up with b.s. because I was able to find a way to tie corrosion at work in with the Bible in some tangental way. Anyway back to your regularly scheduled thread...mine are still too young for h.s. and I don't think that my dh would go along with it...



Yes, the Teacher's manual has a lot of copying. Abeka believes alot in review, written and verbal. We don't do it, it's a bit overkill for our taste. :)

[ArmsOfLove]

but this isn't a debate unless someone makes it one--we don't really debate here. We're all entitled to our opinions :shrug

It didn't get personal when the other poster said people were in denial for mourning a certain way????Actually, no, it didn't get personal because no individual was attacked. If you took it personal then it may have been a time to ask for clarity or challenge the belief that everyone who responds that way is in denial, but it wasn't personal. She didn't say "YOU are in denial because YOU did x" :no

I happen to know a woman who mourned in such a way. She lost her lifelong husband who she dearly loved, at age 60. All she could say was, "Thank you God, for giving him to me." No immediate crying, no wailing or falling to the ground... and people had the nerve to say she was cold. She mourned in her own way. She cried in privacy. She was a private person. She wasn't in denial. She wasn't cold.I dare say this is still different then how NW was portrayed--this woman still mourned. And a lifelong marriage partner at 60 who dies is a very different thing than losing a child :(

You are certainly entitled to enforce morals and character qualities that you want to instill :tu I do that here :D I just don't want to do it in my history :grin

[J3K]

Abeka gets plenty of good press. They aren't hurting for money or good words.

This thread was specifically for those who don't like it , those who have used it , and why they stopped.

I have no problem with people who choose Abeka. I personally can't stand it. and I gave my opinion and experiences because I was asked.

Someone gave me the Noah Webster book and a couple others as well. I was "five in a rowing" the books. Coming to the blatant manipulation and skewed historical picture presented as fact....it just reinforced why I don't use the whole curriculum. I wouldn't have mentioned the whole Noah thing at all...but I thought it was relevant to this discussion.


From the book
One evening after the others left for church , Noah tried to study. He couldn't seem to keep the words in his mind. What is wrong with me ? I just can't seem to think straight He paced around the room. <snip> Pacing the floor again his eyes were drawn to the shelf where the Bible lay. Picking it up he sat down in the large chair beside his desk and opened the Bible. He read in 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Dropping to his knees Noah began to pray " Please forgive my sins. I ask You to forgive me and help me to be a true follower of Yours." Giving his whole self to his Maker and Redemeer , Noah felt a great peace come into his heart. <snip> That evening Noah gathered his family and said "I have failed as a father"....... From that day on Noah wanted God's will and prayed three times a day.......... In late April Noah made a public profession of faith. ...........Twelve year old Harriet soon joined them in publicly proclaiming her faith." (italic emphasis is theirs , not mine )

This in the middle of Noah writing a dictionary. It just didn't gel for us. It felt forced. It felt fake. I have no doubt that Noah became a born again Christian. Saying that he became a man of faith is different than trying to portray the exact moment.

The author , in the introduction says I have tried to be as accurate as possible with dates and known information. Most episodes in Noah's life from college years on , were documented by his diary and other original sources. Little is known about Noah's childhood. I wrote the earlier chapters as it could have happened in the life of a boy who lived in the 1700's

"as it could have happened"...we knew that in the earlier chapters...and again...if she'd had that feel thru the whole book "this is how *I* think it could have happened" that would have been fine and dandy. But she goes on to say that this is accurate historical information. And it's not. THAT is what bothered me so much.

If she (the author) had said "Sometime in the middle of writing his dictionary (which took 25yrs) Noah accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior. His dictionary entries reflected that fact." ..... I wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow.

Since the OP wanted to know WHY we don't like Abeka...I thought I'd give her an exact reason.

As a cavaet...I feel I need to add on to this.... we've got several Abeka posters on our walls. The solar system , the Visible spectrum , phases of the moon ,structure of the earth , etc... They each have a bible verse at the bottom. They are sturdy , heavy duty weight posters with bright vibrant colors and I like having bible verses on the walls. I got them at the homeschool used book store. We use a combination of non-abeka christian material and secular material to do science.

[mykidsmom]

The problem is that this literary liberty is being taken with historical situations and factual events and real people. If their bio is available, if their diary is accessible, if other people wrote about what they did at the time, the it's HISTORICALLY INNACURATE to take literary liberty with it. That's the point. IF you want to write a book with Noah Webster or anyone else as a fantasy character to develop your brand of Christian character then say that this is what you are doing. If you present it as history you are lying to children :shrug


So, then if something isn't written in history and we have to guess what took place, I agree that we should state that this is our opinion of historical events based on the factual history available. For whatever reason Abeka and other Christian curriculm has decided NW was a certain type of person and would react in a certain way based on the information available.

So, perhaps the issue here is not that Abeka is this evil curriculm giant trying to lie to children and convert the populous under false information, but instead is writing according to what they have available and they should thus include in such books that the account is based on "their" findings of events not written in factual history.

I think this would be a great resolution to this issue. I think we should write all authors of historical literature and have them do the same, if they haven't already. ???

And Crystal, this isn't about me and I didn't want it to be a debate, but it certainly turned into one and that's not a bad thing. There were two issues being improperly portrayed and I couldn't let them stay that way. 1. How someone should mourn 2. Abeka's agenda

[mykidsmom]

The author , in the introduction says I have tried to be as accurate as possible with dates and known information. Most episodes in Noah's life from college years on , were documented by his diary and other original sources. Little is known about Noah's childhood. I wrote the earlier chapters as it could have happened in the life of a boy who lived in the 1700's

"as it could have happened"...we knew that in the earlier chapters...and again...if she'd had that feel thru the whole book "this is how *I* think it could have happened" that would have been fine and dandy. But she goes on to say that this is accurate historical information. And it's not. THAT is what bothered me so much.

If she included that in her introduction I think the reader's were fairly warned. They were given the opportunity to agree or disagree and know that they weren't secretly being indoctrinated. :tu

[J3K]

but it was presented as fact. We knew that about the eariler chapters. And I was quite cool with it. The earlier chapters included Mr. Webster Senior praying with the family every night , Mother Webster quoting bible verses , one of the daughters reading out of the bible out loud to the family , everyone going to church on a regular basis , etc.... Those things are how the author believes life was like for young Noah Webster. It's how an average childhood looked in the 1700's.

From the college years on , with Noah's diary in her hands , the author didn't need to add such liberties.
To portray his redemption and salvation as fact was indeed messing with history. It does smack of an agenda. It reeks of wanting to convert the readers as well. My son was highly offended at that. I was reading the book to them as a snippet of history. I wasn't reading it to them for their salvation. About the only true things in the whole book were 1. Noah wrote books. 2. Noah and his wife had children.

The book should've been portrayed as a fictional story about Noah Webster. Not as historical truth.
and that's where my main gripe lies.

There were two issues being improperly portrayed and I couldn't let them stay that way. 1. How someone should mourn 2. Abeka's agenda

I do feel Abeka has an agenda. If they were to come right out and say it , that would be fine. But it's hidden in books that they are historically accurate.

I pointed out how Noah and his wife mourned , because I felt it was forced. The author had drawn a picture of a very emotional Noah. She had him sulking for the better part of a year (when he was in his early 20's) because the girl he had a crush on in middle school was marrying someone else. To then have him praising God and asking for comfort at the death of their 20 (or was it 22 ?) year old daughter....it was fake and forced and again..portrayed as historically accurate. I do acknowledge that people mourn differently. But this particular scene was hot on the heels of Noah's conversion.

[cklewis]

And anyone who has an immediate reaction of gratitude for the death of someone they love is not showing faithfullness, they are showing denial.


It's sad you think that way. People mourn in their own way, how dare you take that away from them and say it's denial. You don't know what that person is thinking or what they have gone through.

:/ I know grief enough to know that it is denial. It is. :shrug It's not a "way" of grieving. it's not grieving at all.

I'm not a fan of Abeka either. For many, many reasons.

C

[Titus2Momof4]

The Arithmetic, Language, Spelling and History have tests included in the work. If you don't have the Teacher's Edition, it's possible that you don't know about the test booklets and when each test is to be given. I think the Academy does do tests that you send in... but don't quote me on that one. :grin


Umm......oh gosh. So did I totally mess up by not getting the TE's??? I had no idea! I should have been testing them all along, then?? I mean, periodically the books have Oral Evaluations, or pages that have a "Grade" box at top...are those the tests, or are tests something totally separate?

[Titus2Momof4]

I wouldn't choose Abeka simply because I don't like textbook/workbook type methods. I've read it incorporates a lot of busy work. I don't want to pay for busy work. I like CM and unit studies. I didn't even know about the emotional manipulation in the books, but that would most definatly be another reason I would leave it on the shelf.


Maybe it's my perfectionist personality, but the busywork doesn't really bother me (the only time it bothers me is if I've been slacking, and then I'm mad because we are behind, but I only have myself to be mad at.) I have other ideas of homeschooling, but it seems that my kids really thrive with this workbook style, so I just wondered what people had issues with. I'm very thankful for all the replies in this thread! :)

[mykidsmom]

The Arithmetic, Language, Spelling and History have tests included in the work. If you don't have the Teacher's Edition, it's possible that you don't know about the test booklets and when each test is to be given. I think the Academy does do tests that you send in... but don't quote me on that one. :grin


Umm......oh gosh. So did I totally mess up by not getting the TE's??? I had no idea! I should have been testing them all along, then?? I mean, periodically the books have Oral Evaluations, or pages that have a "Grade" box at top...are those the tests, or are tests something totally separate?


You know, it's still early enough to get them, but I'd totally buy second hand because they're so expensive. Although, your little ones are k and below, right? If so, I don't think the TEs or the tests are not all that important. Once first grade hits though, you might want to make the investment. On the bright side, you only have to buy the TEs once. They are pretty handy.

The grade box is for an actual grade, which you figure out via use of the answer booklets. I only have the answer booklets because they were handed down to me. I probably wouldn't have gotten them on my own. If my son misses anything we go over it until he gets it. The grade isn't real important right now. In later years he'll be graded to prepare for college.

Oh and I just remembered, you can go on Abeka's site and see when they'll have a "show" in your area. You can go and take a look at all the material and see what the TEs are all about. hth :)

[Titus2Momof4]

Since the OP wanted to know WHY we don't like Abeka...I thought I'd give her an exact reason

Yes, this is exactly what I wanted :) Because, I swore we wouldn't be using Abeka again, but due to finances, and the fact that we didn't finish the books *anyway* (probably due to all the extra busywork lol), I decided that for now we would continue through our K5 books, and that made me start thinking introspectively, thinking, well what is it that I don't like about Abeka, anyway......and when I made a list of pros and cons, the only thing I could come up with was that it was "too much work". But for me, when I'm being honest, it's only "too much work" if we get to slacking off. So, yes, I was curious to know what other reasons people might have had for disliking this curr. I've enjoyed the discussion :)

[Teribear]

So, perhaps the issue here is not that Abeka is this evil curriculm giant trying to lie to children and convert the populous under false information, but instead is writing according to what they have available and they should thus include in such books that the account is based on "their" findings of events not written in factual history.

I think this would be a great resolution to this issue. I think we should write all authors of historical literature and have them do the same, if they haven't already. ???

And Crystal, this isn't about me and I didn't want it to be a debate, but it certainly turned into one and that's not a bad thing. There were two issues being improperly portrayed and I couldn't let them stay that way. 1. How someone should mourn 2. Abeka's agenda


Where did you hear this said? This is what I mean when I say it feels that you're being defensive. No one has said Abeka is an evil curriculum giant trying to lie to children and convert the populous under false information or anything of the kind. The OP asked specifically for people who don't care for Abeka to comment as to why.

I do think Abeka has an agenda. Any specifically Christian publication has an agenda. :shrug I just think Abeka is particularly hamhanded about how they express theirs on occasion. A more accurate and perhaps more emotionally neutral characterization of why I dislike Abeka readers (which is really the only part of their curriculums I'm famliar with) is that they are what Charlotte Mason would probably call twaddle. I think they're poorly written and I think their portrayal of the Christian faith is often one dimensional and forced. I've run into the same kinds of things with BJU Press. I find it particularly glaring in the sciences. Honestly the only explicitly Christian science curricula I can begin to stomach is Apologia simply because all the rest of it has such an obvious agenda. And believe me, I have reviewed almost all the major ones out there when it comes to science because of looking for a Physics curriculum for a class I taught last year.

I think Abeka is a wonderful thing if 1) you agree with them philosophically, 2) you want a school at home curriculum and 3) you're willing to pay the prices they want for their stuff. For me personally the answer is none of the above. No harm no foul to anyone who feels differently. I will say I'm a bit put out though at the idea that those of us who do feel differently are being accused of "improperly portraying" the curriculum simply because we disagree in our opinions of it.

[Leslie]

Abeka readers (which is really the only part of their curriculums I'm famliar with) is that they are what Charlotte Mason would probably call twaddle. I think they're poorly written and I think their portrayal of the Christian faith is often one dimensional and forced.


The only part of Abeka that I've ever seen is their Pilgrim's Progress reader and I'd say that, by Charlotte Mason's standards, it would have been twaddle.

My old neighbor was a private school teacher whose school used Abeka. She said that it was accelerated, but that, by the time students were in third grade (the age she taught), they were already burning out. So, when she started homeschooling, she used something else.


Honestly the only explicitly Christian science curricula I can begin to stomach is Apologia simply because all the rest of it has such an obvious agenda.


Although, when I read his General Science with my son, I found some things that I didn't like, places where I wished he'd let the facts speak for themselves and not use his captive audience as an opportunity to mock the other side. I didn't expect that in a science text. I guess there's no way to escape having an agenda.

[2ds1dd]

Oh--also had a question about "tests"....?? Someone said (someone who uses Abeka, and said she's still using it) that in the past she didn't focus on the subjects Abeka tests on, but now that the child is older the tests focus on Science and History or something.....what is this about? I didn't know they did testing--is that required?? Or is that when you "enroll" in the Abeka Academy or something? Should we be doing this too??


We use the Corospondence Curriculum. By using ABeka's tests that gets us around all of our state's requirements for end of year testing/evaluations, and SOLs.