sorting through some thoughts about my preemies

[ArmsOfLove]

we've started seeing an extended family member who is getting certified in Feldenkreis/Anott treatments and the biggest amazing changes are in the babies. You know how there are things that as a mom you notice and think about and store away--they aren't really "big deals" or "stand alone worries" but as your child gets older it may become more of an issue if it doesn't clear up. There have been lots of those with the boys.

For one thing, they were born at 34 weeks BUT all of my pg's have gone 41.5 weeks and the babies were most definately almost 8 week preemies. When they were littler they were stiff as a board and we could tip them and their whole body would move as a solid brick. We were told that's normal in preemies sometimes. Then there was the breathholding which we were told was due to "immature neurological development" but when I asked what else that would affect and what to look for I was told "nothing" and "it's pretty common. It will clear up by the time they are 2. Or 5." :hunh

The well baby check ups have always been interesting because what they consider meeting the qualifications for the age appropriate developmental steps is WAY under my standard. "Self feeding" was checked off because I was able to lay them on their backs and have them eat mushed baby food (at 9 months they were still gagging if they ate sitting up; at a year they still had to eat baby food; at 16 months they still had to be fed baby food; at 20 months they still had to have mushy food). Give them a spoon and they bang it then drop it, if they even picked it up.

They don't talk much (only say a few words) My boys have been content to sit together in the stroller. They are "good" babies by many standards. Give them a toy and they drop it. They crawled late, walked late, etc. And as recently as two weeks ago someone was telling me how "cute" their flat footed Frankenstein walk was.

Turns our their hips haven't been moving and their walk is due to poor body movement and muscle tone; they aren't self feeding; they aren't working the room.

In the last week my babies have started walking heel-toe, saying a lot more words and trying to use more!, asking for food, getting a spoon from the drawer, going to the table, climbing up, SELF FEEDING :jump2

The change are miraculous!

Which has me thinking . . . what does it do to babies to force and punish them into existing as babies with immature neurological development? To FORCE a child to lose the will to explore, to not work the room. To FORCE a child to not self feed because they might make a mess. Why does our culture define "good" babies by standards of unhealth?

I found one sitting on the table the other day. I :grin and :amen and told him :tu for climbing up so high! I then picked him up and danced around the room :)

[cindergretta]

:jump2 on the milestones and developments!! I have a table dancer! ;) I always take her off, but we all laugh hysterically, too. Bet that's why she keeps getting back up there! ;) :giggle

Your post reminds me how fraught with tension parenting can be and how hard it can be to discern between what is an actual need as far as developmental time-tables and what is a want, for us as parents, kwim?

:hug

[Dana Joy]

Which has me thinking . . . what does it do to babies to force and punish them into existing as babies with immature neurological development? To FORCE a child to lose the will to explore, to not work the room. To FORCE a child to not self feed because they might make a mess. Why does our culture define "good" babies by standards of unhealth?

Reminds me of how many times I would go to evaluate a babe and I would ask the standard questions about feeding, dressing etc and the parents would be like :jawdrop why would you ask that of course I do it for them they are only 1, or 2 or 3. Or I would ask how they communicate- (esp if we had already established that they had no words) and would have to bring up suggestions like oh do they bring you their shoes when they want to go out, and again :jawdrop why would we keep their shoes where they could reach them.

I do think it is culturally relative too- I've been told that in Japanese cultures children are spoon fed by their parents till kindergarten. I wonder how that effects the child?

[Dana Joy]

Oh and :tu :tu to the twins!!!! Do they get early intervention?

[ArmsOfLove]

Oh and :tu :tu to the twins!!!! Do they get early intervention?
We are applying for it

[cindergretta]

I do think it is culturally relative too- I've been told that in Japanese cultures children are spoon fed by their parents till kindergarten. I wonder how that effects the child?


Really? Interesting..... I'm going to ask mil about that at dinner tomorrow. (Okinawan)

[Rbonmom]

Yes, I too wonder what the effects may be. It is really sad. My nephews were both punished (flicked) for exhibiting the natural response to being full, ie. turning their head away. My BIL saw it as a battle of the wills and would force feed them as young as 6mo :cry :sick2 I will never forget the look that my sweet nephew gave me at about 9mo. when his dad was doing this. It was like "please help me!" I almost got sick, but I didn't know how to intervene. He's very stubborn when it comes to his ideas about parenting and they were Ezzofied before their first ds was born :no2
My dad also told me that there was a right and wrong way to feed, meaning morally right. And that I was wrong (morally wrong) for not spoon feeding ds. He's always loved to feed himself and is very picky but will eat much more if he does it himself.
I think our culture is very, very uneducated about childhood development plus we have the myths and bad practices handed down.

[Tengokujin]

[

I do think it is culturally relative too- I've been told that in Japanese cultures children are spoon fed by their parents till kindergarten. I wonder how that effects the child?


Um. no, they are not spoon fed until kindergarden, at least not at home. In public, it may not always be a good kid-friendly setup, and feeding the child may be easier. :shrug Kindergarden starts at age 3 and runs for three years, so that may change your perspective a bit. :) However, there is less tolerance for mess, and parents are usually swabbing a child's face after each bite. Drives me nuts. And yeah, I feel I DO see a difference in children because of this. Less interactive, less exploring, much more passive. Much more ready to be a cog in the great working world. :banghead

Sorry for the rant. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Atarah]

My dad also told me that there was a right and wrong way to feed, meaning morally right. And that I was wrong (morally wrong) for not spoon feeding ds.
This is completely baffling to me. Where does this thought come from? I can comprehend how the 'rod' verses could be mis-interpreted in such a way that people could believe they should hit their children (it makes me want to :sick2 but I can comprehend where it comes from) But this is genuinely baffling to me. Can anyone explain this to me?

It is exciting to read the strides the your bubbies are making, Crystal. :mrgreen

To your original question.... would it be too much to think that forcing the behavior might possibly *cause* neurological impairment? So much of the brain development takes place between birth and five years, so if we are 'forcing' unnatural behavior could it not be 'rewiring' (or mis-wiring as the case may be) the normal brain? As Rebecca said - "much more ready to be a cog in the great working world"? Less inquisitive? Less creative? Less capable of 'normal' function?

[zak]

No deep thoughts from me - but wanted to :jump2 for joy with you on all these new adventures! :mrgreen

[HomeWithMyBabies]

In the last week my babies have started walking heel-toe, saying a lot more words and trying to use more!, asking for food, getting a spoon from the drawer, going to the table, climbing up, SELF FEEDING

:tu :tu !!!!

Peanut is delayed due to a birth defect of his brain (his corpus callosum never developed in the second trimester). He's been a cosleeping, slinging baby from early on and I can't help but think it's helped alot in stimulating him. He's never been left to cry and has been breastfed on demand as soon as he was able to breastfeed (about six weeks old). He's 14 months old and starting to pull up on his own! He started to eat cheerios and crackers a month ago but is still texture sensitive to softer stuff. He's been into everything as soon as he started belly crawling at 10 months old. So curious!

His neurologist is thrilled and sometimes he seems alittle surprised with how well he's doing. Many, many people have been praying for him since we got his dx at five days old (a real blessing, because we were able to start therapy right away). I really think God led me into "full blown AP" :giggle because it's the best thing for babies, and especially for a baby with challenges like my ds. Yes, he is behind, but I know he's been given a great start at catching up.

[doubleblessings]

Mine were not much early (37 weeks and I have no previous pregnancies to know what would be normal for me :grin). We didn't really have the physical delays, but they were sort of late talkers. At their 18 month appointment DD was saying maybe 5 words and DS less and they did talk much. But by the 2nd birthday they really took off verbally and are saying lots now. It was really amazing the progress. They really took off at about 21 months.

[cklewis]

Why does our culture define "good" babies by standards of unhealth?

:yes Just like we define beauty as a standard of unhealth/starvation! :no2

C

[LauraK]

Crystal that is great news about the twins!!!

I remember getting so frustrated when my dd#1 had a gross motor delay and we were doing PT and honestly a bit worried about her and people would say, "oh once she starts walking/crawling you'll wish she had not" because it will be more work and stupid comments like that. I am sitting there going...are you nuts.... Or the "you are lucky, mine started walking so young" and I was stupified at the time. Looking back her develpmental delays did turn into positives in away, in the sense she is so strong in her fine motor skills and already writing and such at age 3, but back then when I was actually scared she might have trouble ever walking or running or jumping and people were making these comments I was angry.

She did grow out of her troubles by the way so that was a relief, but it is odd.

I totally agree with Camille that it is a general cultural thing and we are not the only culture historically who did this. I think in general it has to do with a focus on appearances instead of what is inside, the true person.

[Quiteria]

My oldest was Ezzo'ed. She was spoon-fed early 3mo. b/c of hunger b/c of low milk supply b/c of Ezzo...I didn't recognize the problem, and was given advice that she could start solids early b/c she was huge. She HATED food at first. We took a month break, and then she took another month before she really swallowed much of it at all. :cry She didn't get any texture until 9mo with her first teeth b/c I was scared of choking as a first-time parent. Turns out she loves Cheerios, crackers, bread (notice--self-feeding items). She hates other textures, fruit, vegies, rice...took until 18 mo. to gradually introduce non-pureed food, and to this day (5yrs old) she'd rather go to bed hungry than try a new texture. :cry

We are working hard to find gentle ways of expanding her food horizons...but that, my friends, is what happens to a baby raised with Ezzo food standards. :bheart

My second baby, AP, self-directed feeding, 9mo, is very enthusiastic about food. When we do use spooned foods, he puts the spoon in his mouth himself. :giggle He gums bananas, gnaws on halves of cherries, picks up quartered carrot coins, etc., and loves mealtime. We did start him at 5.5 mo. b/c he was so determind to develop his picer grasp, but he was chewing and swallowing and enthusiastically feeding himself from the first attempt.

[Jillian]

Yay for your babes, Crystal! :mrgreen

I agree with you, everyone is always amazed at how able and independant my kids are - going up steps, making themselves lunch, climbing/jumping, etc. And I think that has a lot to do with allowing, and encouraging, them to do things themselves that lots of people I know will take over and do for the kid, because they are too slow/messy/whatever.

That's so sad - about being a cog in the great big working world. :(

[Sarai]

Crystal, that's wonderful that your babes are doing so well! :amen

[ArmsOfLove]

would it be too much to think that forcing the behavior might possibly *cause* neurological impairment? So much of the brain development takes place between birth and five years, so if we are 'forcing' unnatural behavior could it not be 'rewiring' (or mis-wiring as the case may be) the normal brain? I don't think this is a stretch at all :( I think that we are going to see more and more of this :think

and I am so proud of them :heart They are exploding verbally (well, for them :grin) I can understand more and more efforts at words :tu

[Chris3jam]

:tu :heart :highfive Yay!

And, yes, I think we *do* inhibit growth (at best) and can cause 'damage' (at worst) when we interfere with their growing processes. I remember being at a store with someone. . .and I held up two dresses to my dd, who was about 1.5 yo at the time. And I asked her, 'which color do you like? which one do you want?'. And she picked one, and that was it. The person I was with was totally :no2 :eek :eyebrow . She was so completely outraged (yes, outraged!) that I would do something like that! She kept telling me that my dd was just a baby, and she didn't know what she wanted, blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes2

[Dana Joy]

speaking of outrage-
i always get looks of "how dare you?" when a baby gets into a physical position they don't like and are obviously struggling to get themselves over- (but not crying for help) just kinda grunting and figuring it out- i always step back and let them figure it out- i've been called cruel

[Chris3jam]

i always step back and let them figure it out- i've been called cruel

Me, too! I was sitting on the couch the other day, talking to someone. And my dd came up and said she couldn't reach something, and asked for help. So, I told her to get her stepstool, and maybe that would help? In one way, "society" makes me feel lazy and mean, because I didn't get up right away to do it for her. But. . .I think helping her think it out will benefit her more. It's hard not to bend to "society's norm", though. Because I *do* feel lazy and mean sometimes when I do that. :sad2

[Quiteria]

:tu :heart :highfive Yay!

And, yes, I think we *do* inhibit growth (at best) and can cause 'damage' (at worst) when we interfere with their growing processes. I remember being at a store with someone. . .and I held up two dresses to my dd, who was about 1.5 yo at the time. And I asked her, 'which color do you like? which one do you want?'. And she picked one, and that was it. The person I was with was totally :no2 :eek :eyebrow . She was so completely outraged (yes, outraged!) that I would do something like that! She kept telling me that my dd was just a baby, and she didn't know what she wanted, blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes2


I swear my dd started gravitating toward purple clothes at 11mo. :giggle

I forgot to mention... :highfive about all the milestones. God has definitely picked the right parent for those boys. I love the quote around here that speaks to that effect, and it's great to hear how your little ones in particular are making progress. :hug