Reading/writing and losing primary teeth

[AttachedMamma]

I recall reading in Rahima Baldwin Dancy's book "You are your Child's first teacher" about a correlation between learning to read/write and a child losing their baby teeth. Steiner (Waldorf) felt that reading and writing should not be imposed until the 2nd set of teeth started coming in and they seemed to suggest this is between ages 6 and 7.

DD just lost her 1st baby tooth and has been showing a great interest in learning to read and write, so it seems to be true in her case. She turned 5 in Oct.

What are your thoughts on this? Has this been the case for your children? Do you believe in Steiner's approach?

cindi

[tempus vernum]

I have heard this explained many ways. I haven't read any literature but spoken to parents about it. It was explained to me thoroughly and at first I agreed - someone said, you want to wait until their head stops growing because otherwise it would be like trying to turn on the lights before the electrician finishes with the wiring.

Then I read "ready, set, read" which is a montessori approach. The appraoch worked really well with my dd (also 5). SHe was very interseted in reading for almost 6 months when I found it. It took awhile to find something to work for her - we tried many things. A few times I stopped because I thought even though she was interested that she wasn't ready. But I finally found something that worked. Once I did, she learned very quickly all phonetic sounds and short vowels. she is at the "level 1" reading level. I also started ds (just turned four) on the first step when I started dd on it - it's all games so he has no clue he started. I will keep you posted because I am shocked to tell you he is really doing well :shrug He isn't so good at telling me words that start with "mmmmmmm. . . " but he also doesn't have the best enunciation so I realized the other day that to him those things do sound like they start with "m" :laughtears He loves to play it though :tu

The thing I love about the book is that its laid back and is all games so it makes it really fun for the kids. Dd still loves the sound game and starts it on her own still. Even though she has progressed "past" it.

So, I am not sure anymore what I believe. DD could have just been ready by the waldorf standards but she hasn't lost any teeth and none are even loose AND she started being interested in about March of Last year. :shrug

The author is a Christian (Barbara Curtis) and she believes that written communication is the next step after verbal. That communication is a god=given gift and very natural for children to move into reading after speaking. She does say however that every child is different and that some 5 year olds can read, some can't even using her method. I love the book though - I don't own it but I have requested it several times from the library. I plan on buying it "soon" since I still have 2 children who can't read at all and a VERY beginning reader.

I will be watching this thread with interest though :popcorn

[Mamatoto]

You can read more about this in the book "Lifeways"--it goes more in depth in the philosophy behind it.

It is hard to grasp the concept and believe in it without some background in the anthroposophy that guides it, but generally there is a change that occurs in the child when the teeth come in, from being in the dreamy childhood state to being more grounded and "into" their bodies. Therefore they are more ready to learn concrete things like letters and numbers, when before that they are still in the dreamy childhood state that does not need to be awakened from too early.

That is not to say that children cannot learn the academics before, but in Waldorf when they do, it is like robbing a part of the dreamy childlike state to make them prematurely come into their heads.

They look for the whole change of teeth, not just one, so even with losing one tooth, your dd may not be completely ready until next year. My dd asks a lot about letters and numbers even now at four and a half, but I just tell her we will learn them in first grade. :-)

[AttachedMamma]

You can read more about this in the book "Lifeways"--it goes more in depth in the philosophy behind it.

It is hard to grasp the concept and believe in it without some background in the anthroposophy that guides it, but generally there is a change that occurs in the child when the teeth come in, from being in the dreamy childhood state to being more grounded and "into" their bodies. Therefore they are more ready to learn concrete things like letters and numbers, when before that they are still in the dreamy childhood state that does not need to be awakened from too early.

That is not to say that children cannot learn the academics before, but in Waldorf when they do, it is like robbing a part of the dreamy childlike state to make them prematurely come into their heads.

I haven't read the Lifeways book, but I have read about the concepts you are talking about. I've attended 2 Waldorf conferences (but I'm certainly no expert on anthroposophy). Rahima Baldwin Dancy autographed my book. :jump DD attended some day camps at a local Waldorf school before we moved. I really liked the environment and she did too. It felt so peaceful there--I would love for my home to feel like that!

Children are little for only a short while. The last thing I want to do is hurry my DD out of her childlike, dreamy, imaginative state. :heart

Thank you so much for sharing!

cindi

[Mama Calidad]

I imagine that with many children that approach works well! I really believe that the most important thing is understanding who your child is and what works best for him/her. :yes DD has loved to read since she was old enough to carry books to us to read to her. She can read most level 1 books with little assistance. It has been wonderful for her confidence...and yet she's still a 4 year old off in a dream world most of the time. Reading is itself is often an escape into a dream world! :read ;)

I would not push a child to read early. I don't think that is healthy. I do not, however, believe that I have in any way damaged my daughter by helping her learn to do something she loves.

[Wholly Mama]

Wow, I guess I have a few (like 5?) years before I can start this, if I follow those guidelines. I didn't start getting my 2nd teeth until the 4th grade (but started reading on my own at 3). My children have "immature" mouths as well.
After reading some very disturbing things about Waldorf, I've really been turned off of anything that has to do with Waldorf. I'm sure there are wonderful things there, I just haven't been able to weed through to find it.

[amytech]

This is a really interesting topic-one that I have changed my mind on several times! :)

I have 4 children, three of whom I have taught to read and it is interesting how each was different and why. My oldest got his first tooth at 5 months and started losing teeth at 4. He learned to read at 4 and was TOTALLY ready. He wanted me to teach him to read and I do believe in "catch them when they are interested, ala Montessori" and he did with no trouble.

#2 son comes along (by the way, I have never heard of Waldorf at this point, other than it was a school nearby) and he learns to read at 5 with no trouble but in a different way and still is not as good a reader as my oldest. He skips a lot to get to the point, is very imaginative, even at 12 (!) and prefers doing to reading.

Enter #3 son...very interesting...by now I am homeschooling classically and I decide to teach ds to read to see if he is ready. He is 4 and learns to read with no trouble. He is a TOTAL visual learner and even learned by Phonics Pathways!! It would have never worked for my older boys! He also didn't lose his first tooth until he was 7-8 years old-way later than his brothers. He is still (at 9) what I call a "young" 9. He is dreamy and was REALLY dreamy at 4,5 and 6. Did I do the wrong thing teaching him to read early? No, BUT it did not have the intended effect on him that I had hoped for. My oldest boys love to read, the oldest more than the second, and my rationalization for teaching early, if they were ready, is that they could read a lot more than I had the time to read to them. But it didn't work for my third. I think he read because his brothers were but he doesn't read for fun. He does not love to read. He is very "in his head" and I wished that I had taken that time that I spent teaching him to read and spent it doing some hand work or practical skills. He is clumsy and does not have fine motor skills. He would have benefited from a lot of that and I am going back now and doing more of it. And you know what? He is deriving so much satisfaction and self confidence from "doing" things more than head knowledge, at least right now. He takes art lessons and an art/craft class and LOVES it. It is one of his favorite things to do.

I learned more about Waldorf after my 4th was born and I'm doing some things differently with her. She is showing some interest in reading but not a lot. She loves to write her name and ours and although that is not "Waldorf", I am encouraging it and helping her when she asks for help. She is very into crafts and "hands on learning", just what she should be doing. I wish I had focused more on hands-on stuff when my older ones were younger, even though it was harder for me. There is tremendous benefit to it.

[MidnightCafe]

Well, you asked for our experiences, as well as thoughts on the philosophy. So, I'll just share my experience so far. I have one DD. She will be 4 in May. She has been writing her name since she was 3 years, 4 months. I taught her to write her name because she asked me to. She asks me things like, "What sound does 'b' make?" So, I tell her. She asked me about how words are made. So, I showed her words. I cannot imagine not answering her questions. She doesn't read yet. She doesn't even recognize all the letters yet. But she sometimes shows an intense interest in one letter or another and certain sounds. So, I go with it. My philosophy is something along the lines of following your child's lead & providing the with resources. I think she'll be reading sometime in her 4th year. We haven't pushed this at all...but we have read to her a ton. She loves complicated fairy tales & very involved stories. We've been reading Little House on the Prairie recently, but now she wants me to read Peter Pan to her because I just finished reading it. We tell stories & read. So, she has a natural interest in learning to read herself.

And teaching her the things she asks about ("moving into her head") hasn't done anything to take her out of her childhood dreaminess. Her Sunday School teacher just commented to me on Sunday that she "is such a neat child." Apparently she was sprinkling fairy dust on the other children and drawing them into all kinds of imaginary play stories. :shrug

I would, however, be really interested if anyone has any good book recommendations on Waldorf philosophy. I've done most of my learning about Waldorf on the internet.

Is this the Lifeways (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0950706248/qid=1136994310/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3218987-5263037?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) you're talking about?

[Mamatoto]

Is this the Lifeways you're talking about?

It's a book by Gudrun Davy.

You might be interested in our natural learning yahoo group that some mama's here are on. We are starting a discussion of the book Beyond the Rainbow Bridge in a few days. I'll go get you a link....

[Mamatoto]

Here it is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturalkiddos/?yguid=243812639

And here is an article that applies on childhood pressure (although I am not saying this applies to anyone here on this thread :no :-))

http://www.waldorflibrary.org/Journal_Articles/pressure.pdf

[4Cygnets]

I have read none of the responses, but I have to say, my 7 year old son would probably fit into this theory. His baby teeth have taken forever to fall out, and the adult teeth start growing in before the baby teeth are even out. We had one pulled out at the dentist, my mom pulled out 2, and my dh one. Teaching the kid to read is about has hard as making his teeth come out! So my theory......teeth refuse to come out.....kid refuses to read.....makes sense to me!! :giggle

[Mamatoto]

That's very interesting! Maybe he will always be one of those people who really are a kid at heart and will hold on to childhood as long as possible.

My dh has never lost his bottom baby teeth! And he has always had much much difficulty with reading and is dyslexic. Not sure on the Waldorf theory on that, but it is interesting! :shrug

[MamaBear]

I have to admit, the teeth/reading connection is a peeve of mine. Probably because I was an avid reader at age 5, and my dream-world was Laura Ingalls Wilder's world.

My parents put me into public school for a few months then, and I was not allowed any reading material, nor allowed to talk about reading.... because I hadn't lost any teeth yet. I was also getting into trouble for not working with the class (meaning I would read the instructions on craft sheets and have the craft done before the teacher had finished reading the instructions aloud).

That would be when I started crying every day about having to go to school and hating school.... We ended up going through a couple of private schools after that before settling on homeschooling.