Unschoolers

[ChloesMommy]

I still don't fully "get it". I need a good resource that really explains it, in detail. My sister and I got in an argument about how "when you home school, you have to be organized, and have a schedule, and be a "type A" personality" :banghead Meanwhile, she does "school at home" moves between TX and FL almost yearly, and has her kids in so many activities, I don't think they'd have *time* to go to public school. I really hate her ( when I was 13 she made her husband spank me- they found cigs in my stuff. My mom and bro and I lived with them, and made my mom feel as if we'd be on the street if she didn't let him spank me. I was already sexually active and felt violated more than punished) Anyways, I really feel like I hate her, and have something to prove..... :banghead :banghead :banghead

[Leslie]

As I remember, this site had lots of great articles about unschooling:
http://www.midnightbeach.com/hs/

[Chris3jam]

Anything by John Holt, "Christian Unschooling", maybe Charlotte Mason. There's more, but what *exactly* are you looking for? Where others have succeeded in life after unschooling? That unschooling isn't unlearning? That unschooling isn't unparenting? That unschooling is really a good way for children to know that learning is a life-long pleasure and not a drudgery and something that *must* be suffered through?

ETA -- Here's something --- http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/methods/Unschooling.htm

[ChloesMommy]

Scheduling or lack thereof is something I want to know more about. I explained to her that children can learn fractions by cooking a recipe together and instruments ...... she said, yeah but you have to say "we're going to do this recipe on monday and have this experiment on thursday"

And then she grilled me/tried to intimidate me about testing and accountability. Basically, how am I going to show that my child has been having school and how will she get into college.

BTW, her and her husband used to teach GKGW and spank and expect 1st time obedience. I'm not worried about trying to make her happy (we're just too different) , I'm just filled with doubts about myself now.

[ChloesMommy]

another thing is:
Do you unschool M-F, or is there totally *no* prodding for learning. My DD already watches elmo everyday- begs to watch him- I'm just afraid she could turn into a couch potato (which would be my fault, I know) and not be motivated to learn.

[Mother Duck]

:hug Lisa, I had a very similar conversation with my sister this week! She does not get unschooling at all! It is totally foriegn to her. She is training to be an early childhood educator so unschooling (or homeschooling in general) is totally against the grain.

We don't have a schedule! I like to have a loose routine but with moving and all it hasn't happened yet. I did do Abeka (structured, routine, schedule etc) for dd1 for a term when she was 6. That is about all I have done. She hated it!! Resisted it!! And it took her about a year to even pick up a pencil to write anything :(

Here is a great site about unschooling with a heap of links

http://geocities.com/moonwindstarsky/unschooling

I especially like this link here
http://home-educate.com/unschooling/lettertorelatives.htm
It is a letter to concerned reletives ... I sent it to my sister :grin

HTH

[Leslie]

Sarah, those are great links! I loved that letter!

[arymanth]

I especially like this link here
http://home-educate.com/unschooling/lettertorelatives.htm
It is a letter to concerned reletives ... I sent it to my sister

Hey, that's ME!!! I wrote that four years ago! We're still unschooling, and my relatives have stopped pestering me about homeschooling... or at least they don't say anything to my face anymore! LOL My oldest is 16 now and still trying to figure out what he wants to do when he grows up, but we aren't in any hurry. We still don't have a schedule or use curriculum, and yet my two youngest boys have somehow learned how to read and my 6yo dd is coming along just fine! (we are studying German together! :grin) We are learning to play music, to plant a garden, to cook great meals (and desserts!) and just having fun being a family. Today my kids are doing "practical math"... it's our town's annual garage sale day and they are going shopping! LOL

If it helps any, I can totally relate to the original poster... my sister's husband and brother in law are both school teachers, and she has frequently tried to explain to me how my kids will never get into college, have a good job, etc. because I don't "do it right" as far as homeschooling goes. My father-in-law never misses a chance to tell me how his OTHER grandchildren are doing SOOO well in school, special programs, gifted, etc. (totally gag me with a spoon! LOL)

I have had to come to the point where I don't CARE what other people think about what I am doing. It's not their family, their choice, or their life.... it's MINE. If they don't like what I'm doing... too bad, so sad! Because MY definition of success is not going to be like anyone else's. I don't care what my kids grow up to be as long as they are HAPPY with what they are doing and if they are GOOD SPOUSES and GOOD PARENTS. Whatever they NEED to know, they will learn... if not now, then when they need to know it! There is NO TIME LIMIT ON LEARNING! For heaven's sake, I'm learning more now at 36 than I ever did when I was in school.... I'm learning a second language, how to play two new musical instruments, doing an in-depth study on the Civil War (trying my hand at historical re-enacting!) discovering wonderful literature I never even knew existed... I had never even read Jane Austin's books until I started homeschooling! Now I am sharing all of this stuff with my kids, and we are having a wonderful time! They are finding out that they CAN learn ANYTHING THEY WANT... all they have to do is make up their minds to do it! :-) To me, this is much more important than trying to memorize a bunch of information that the child has no personal connection with and may never even use as an adult.

(on a related note... why is it that we expect kids to remember all the stuff they learn in school for the rest of their lives... yet they have to CRAM just to pass a mid-term or final exam on the same stuff just a few months or even weeks after they supposedly "learned" it???? :shrug)

I'm right there with you, it IS frustrating to try to explain this to other people (my own parents don't have a clue what I'm doing... they will never understand!) I often feel :banghead... but that's when I have to remember that IT DOESN'T MATTER if anyone else understands.... I do what I know is right for my family. If I start feeling insecure or discouraged, I go and read what other people have written about it and it helps encourage me and reminds me of my "vision". (John Taylor Gatto, John Holt, Charlotte Mason) This is so important, because there ARE going to be lots of times when that VISION is challenged by others who do not understand or don't agree with what you are doing. You have to be able to either stand up for yourself or IGNORE them. It's not easy... I'm a big people-pleaser myself, but I have had to learn how to do this for my own sake and the sake of my family. I won't go along with the crowd just so someone else doesn't agree with what I believe.

I hope this encourages you.... hang in there, read all you can, pray hard, and FOLLOW YOUR HEART! :heart

Stephanie
Mom to 4 boys and a princess!

[ChloesMommy]

Thank you for all of your wonderful encouraging words! I really appreciate everyone's advice! It's hard being the "1st" in your family, ya know? (1st to ebf, 1st to unschool, 1st to cloth diaper etc.)

[ChloesMommy]

I"when you home school, you have to be organized, and have a schedule, and be a "type A" personality"



Is there any truth in any of this? I'm really unorganized and scatterbrained sometimes. Sometimes I even think I have adult ADD......

[arymanth]

I"when you home school, you have to be organized, and have a schedule, and be a "type A" personality"


Is there any truth in any of this? I'm really unorganized and scatterbrained sometimes. Sometimes I even think I have adult ADD......

NO! :grin

I started homeschooing because my ADHD son couldn't handle public school... but when he was diagnosed I found out that I have ADD, too! :mrgreen This is one reason "unschooling" is such a wonderful fit for our family, because anything with a schedule or a lot of deadlines is horrible for me and my ADHD kids. I was an absolute failure when I tried to do "school at home" because it works best for a "type A" organized person, which I definitely am NOT! Once I stopped trying to follow the rules and made up my own rules, things started to fall into place for us. My day is generally ecclectic, sometimes chaotic, but we still manage to get what needs to be done, done... and if not, there's always tomorrow! :-)

This is something that just kills my BO (born organized) relatives, who think that you HAVE to be organized and on a schedule to homeschool "correctly". :laughtears :P :rolleyes

ANYONE can homeschool if they have the desire and are willing to work at it! You just have to find the style that best fits your family. For us it's unschooling. :-)

Stephanie

[Mother Duck]

It's hard being the "1st" in your family, ya know? (1st to ebf, 1st to unschool, 1st to cloth diaper etc.)

Yep, it sure is hard!! We have done a lot of firsts too and the rest of the family can't understand us even if they try :grin

[Leslie]

ANYONE can homeschool if they have the desire and are willing to work at it! You just have to find the style that best fits your family. For us it's unschooling. :-)


So true! It's taken me awhile, but I finally realized that I need some kind of schedule just to keep myself in forward, progressive motion because I'm naturally lazy. As an unschooler, I'd be too apt to let my kids sit in front of the TV eating Honeycombs all day. But for someone less undisciplined than me, unschooling can be great.

Have you read Homeschooling for Excellence by the Colfax's? They had success as unschoolers.

[Carrie in PA]

Hi there~

My name is Carrie. I am new to these boards (this is only my second post....Hi Leslie! :smile).

I second the recommendation for Homeschooling for Excellence. It is an awesome book!!! It really shows how learning from life can work. It also really illustrates having a learning-friendly home. That is one thing I have to say unschooling has done for me -- made me much more aware of the learning opportunities in our home and also tuned me in to the needs and interests of my children.

When I try to follow a strict schedule and heavily-planned curriculum, I end up just checking things off my list, getting the work scheduled done and then doing my own thing for the rest of the day. That's just how I am! But with unschooling, even though I have a general idea of what I would like to do with the boys (whether it be reading a certain book, discussing a subject, observing something particular in nature), I am much more attentive to what their interests are...it sort of makes me a better parent if that makes sense. Unschooling really fits my parenting style.

I worried about the TV and Honeycombs aspect too, Leslie! We actually moved the TV upstairs instead of in the living room. The boys NEVER ask to watch it!!! I'm amazed! I keep books out in the open, of course. I make educational things available to them and I interact with them a lot. I started writing down what we do during the day (rather than writing a plan beforehand). I have been very pleasantly surprised at what actually does get accomplished that I consider learning! It also gives me an idea of what area is being "neglected" (usually math!) and I can focus on that more the next week.

Just some thoughts! If you are following your heart, then don't give in to the doubts! You're doing great!

Carrie

[allisonintx]

Lisa,

I agree with the posters who have said that it's about you and what works for your family, not what your sister thinks about what works for your family.

Thankfully, you don't have to do activities with her! You can find your own people, or find none at all! That's a beautiful thing about homeschooling.

[Leslie]

Thankfully, you don't have to do activities with her! You can find your own people, or find none at all!


Maybe you can sit her down in front of the TV with a box of Honeycombs while you and your kiddos do some educational activities? :laughtears

:bear Hi, Carrie! You're finally here!! :woohoo

[Katherine]

THank you for this thread... it addressed some things I have been pondering this week...

my oldest is still just 3.5, but I've been undecided about how to proceed with his schooling.

Stephanie, that letter is FANTASTIC! This part especially encouraged me:

You talk about my kids having to go out and meet the world face to face. Well I have news for you.... they LIVE in the real world, it is the public school that is the sheltered environment. My kids get "real life" experiences every day. They go shopping, they run errands, they do housework. How much of what goes on in a classroom is what YOU do every day?

This past week I took my ds to the school where my Mom works to surprise her with flowers. My Mom made several comments to other personnel and teachers that my ds "doesn't get out much" and is "not used to being around people" and so on b/c I "keep him" at home. One of the teachers made a point of telling him that they are part of the "real world" and that home is NOT the real world, only a tiny part of it. Even though I disagree with her, the comment made me feel frustrated and upset until I came here and got some encouragement from my "board family." :hearts Your statements in the letter really pinned down what I believe about real world experiences and brought a smile of affirmation to my face. :)

There will be no great "shock" for my kids, they are already LIVING in the real world. Why would I want to take them and pen them up in an institution for 12 years?

dh and I have both totally experienced that "shock" of real world living after functioning for the first 20+ years of our lives in artificial school or military environments.


Even before I knew much about homeschooling or unschooling (and I still don't know that much) dh and I both had the faint sensation that something was missing from our education... that it was highly impractical and did not prepare us for life in the real world. A friend was once arguing emphatically and insisting on how important the classroom experience is, and I asked him when--outside of school--has he ever been in a room with 30 other people his same age, doing the same exact thing as him--but separately. He couldn't answer but blustered on about socialization and shared experiences and not having kids who are isolated, etc. :/

Great thread... food for my thoughts and probably a catalyst for more questions in the near future. ;)

[ChloesMommy]

Well as long as my sister is alive (where is the smiley of me strangling her????) there will be many questions lol. I know this is a christian board, but she is one area where I struggle. I'm so sorry for my horrid feelings for her, but she is just not at all my type of friend, much less sister. Did I mention she's 13 years older than me? Oh, and she's my half sister on my dad's side, never had to live with her..... :amen

[joandsarah77]

hmmm :think you could :jump and :poke :lol

[GrowingInGrace]

You have GOT to read Christian Unschooling! Have to!

[PurpleButterfly]

(((((((((((Lisa))))))))))))))

I just want to acknowledge that what your family did was absolutely inappropriate and appalling. I pray that the Lord will work healing miracles in your heart so you can forgive their hurtful thoughtlessness and move on in peace without regard to their opinion of the way you choose to live your life and raise your precious family.

:hug :heart :pray :hug :heart :pray

I personally find a lot of encouragement on www.unschooling.com and in anything written by Sandra Dodd or John Holt. I've also discovered through similarly-minded family members (to yours), that more importantly than having good explanations or trying to convince them (you can't really), is the peace in your heart, mind, and life that you know you are making the right choices for your family. You don't owe anyone any explanations, you only owe it to yourself to be true to your heart and to your children to be that example regardless of opposition, and it sounds like you're already doing just that, mama.

:tu

[Leslie]

more importantly than having good explanations or trying to convince them (you can't really), is the peace in your heart, mind, and life that you know you are making the right choices for your family. You don't owe anyone any explanations,


Oh, yeah! What's that thing about 'setting boundaries' that Crystal and Joanne always talk about? How would you apply that here?

[Chris3jam]

Oh, there are good groups around. I belong to a Christian unschooling group here (I belong to a few others, like gameschooling, but they are not specifically unschooling)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chr-U/

[SueQ]

I"when you home school, you have to be organized, and have a schedule, and be a "type A" personality"



Is there any truth in any of this? I'm really unorganized and scatterbrained sometimes. Sometimes I even think I have adult ADD......


No! I am not a scheduled person, I am not very organized, and I am difinately not a typ A personality. Look at it this way, you have been homeschooling your children since the day your first was born. If you have been successful so far, you will continue to be successful now that they are "school" aged. Children learn to read, write, and do math just as they learn to walk, talk, use the potty. The key is the amount of time, love, and attention the parents give their children and the type of books the children are exposed to.

For example, we were watching TV at my parents house a few months ago and my 6 yo suddenly said, "Mommy why does it say FOX on the TV. There is no picture of a fox there." I was shocked and didn't even know he knew the word fox. We hadn't gotten to the "ox" family in our phonics studies. :lol That just shows that when they are ready to read, they'll learn to read as long as they are exposed to lots of good literature, read to a lot and we take the time to teach them the alphabet and their sounds! :laughtears

Edited to add:
You have GOT to read Christian Unschooling! Have to!
Yes, I 2nd this! We don't unschool but I read that book and loved it! It is an awesome book! You really do have to read it!

[ChloesMommy]

Also, do unschoolers go year round or break for summer?

[PurpleButterfly]

Also, do unschoolers go year round or break for summer?


Whatever we feel like doing...for our family, and I think for most unschooling families, learning is simply an everyday occurance, not something that you "do" or don't do. I certainly don't want to stop my child from being excited and curious about anything, kwim? So for example, we go about our daily lives, vacations, chores, whatever, and when something intrigues us, we follow that natural interest and desire to learn more. Sometimes it lasts ten minutes, sometimes it lasts two years. :shrug

But the beauty of it is, adventuresome, educational recreation instead of scheduled regulation. :cool

[ArmsOfLove]

passing the bean dip? totally applies here!

and for the time being we've become pure unschoolers (though no Waldorf influence here :lol) Liam's *school* has mostly been about playing Paper Mario. Know what he's learned (and we usually limit it to 1 hr a day but today I told him to go for it and see if he could finish because he was in the second to last chapter--right now he's on his way to fight Bowser and rescue Princess Peach!)? He's learning: to read, math, maps, memorization, sequencing, strategy, persistence, anticipating outcomes . . . I could go on and on. And we've learned teamwork--we strategize together, get scared together, get excited together. He's developing hand eye coordination. I was proud of him for catching up to the saved level from the friend who gave it to us and I told his mom who said Liam must be awesome at it because her kids always used to go to the computer and pull up the helps for the games :eek So now I'm even more proud of him :) and he's been helping his brother and sister (getting them out of fights and helping them figure out how to play while not taking over--boundaries!)

Not to mention all of the home ec and biology stuff from the twins' birth :)

[ChloesMommy]

Paper Mario?

[Joanne]

Unschooling is not a match for my family. But I am a passionate homeschooling advocate.

But, really, the OP isn't about educational issues. It's about dyfunction and boundaries. Here is a link to Bean Dip for Homeschoolers (there is one for alternative parenting in the Discipline forum here):

http://happyhomeschooler.blog-city.com/read/212600.htm

The link really says it all. And what I'd suggest to move past the violation(s) your sister has imposed on you is to find qualified professional help.

To start, though, stop trying to convince her. And begin asserting appropriate boundaries. I'd also suggest to the poster whose mom made "excuses" or "comments" about her grandson that it would have been appropriate to intervene on your child's behalf and said "Mom, stop those comments. I will not accept passive aggressive attacks on our lifestyle or indirect comments about my child."

Anyway, surround yourself with like minded homeschooling thought and prayerfully focus on confidence and joy. Not on proving anything to anyone on earth.

[jujubnme]

But the beauty of it is, adventuresome, educational recreation instead of scheduled regulation. :cool

Love this description!!

[Jillian]

If you are interested, this group is wonderful :)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RadChristianUnschoolers/