How to recognize FTT?

[Winkie]

We're fairly new to our church & still getting to know people. There's this family that has a dd born the same month as my Isaac, so she can't be more than a few weeks younger. I've only spoken with this mom once (maybe 2 mos ago) & that's when I learned when her dd was born & that she was (i think) 4 lb 10 oz at birth. The Mom said they didn't know why she was so small, she was full-term & healthy. So she started out small. And Isaac started out big - 10 lb 8 oz. He just turned 6 mos & is about 19-20 lbs (same as my other boys were). So he's a chunk & it's probably not fair to be even trying to compare them. But ....

This little girl looks like a newborn. Her arms & legs are sooo skinny. She's got no babyfat as far as I can see. And no life to her. We were behind them the last 2 Sundays & the baby just sits in her carrier & stares. I've got Isaac in a sling & he's squirming all over. I've seen the mom give bottles in church. I was pondering why this little girl could be so little yet & FTT & Ezzo popped into my mind. They have 3 boys ages 2, 4, 6 (?) and they just stand there slack-jawed during P&W - not trying to do anything, just looking forward.

Those are my observations. Is there any other outward sign that I would know this was an Ezzo family?

[ArmsOfLove]

And no life to her. This, with everything else, definately sounds like ftt unless there is some health issue cauasing it--but I would hope that someone would take her to be seen and find out. :( Poor little thing.

Outward signs that someone does Ezzo might be more from conversation. Tag words like "Parent directed feeding", "teaching children that they aren't the center of the universe", and I'm sure others could offer more help. I wonder if there is an article at www.ezzo.info (http://www.ezzo.info)--you might want to check there.

[schoolofmom]

Another sign is that the soft spot is sunken, signalling dehydration. :( My midwife told me that one when I was pregnant with ds, warning me against BW.

[snlmama]

:shifty
As the mother of small children, these types of posts always make me sad. That someone would assume the worst of me just b/c my kids were not over 10 lbs. at birth. :( :O Sorry if this comes off harsh, but I want to present the "other side" of the story.

I agree that there could be something wrong, but it could also be a loving family w/ quite/shy kids and a really small baby who may or may not have health issues she's willing to discuss. Honestly, my kids were just over 6 lbs at birth and were considered "tiny," so a not quite 5 lb. baby would raise alarms w/ me. I'm guessing there were issues or circumstances at birth that the mom isn't wanting to discuss w/ a stranger. Also, I think my older ds would have been like that had I taken him into the worship service regularly as an infant b/c he was/is easily overstimulated and as a baby would "shut down" when he was in loud and busy situations. :shrug

Curious, though, why *don't* you speak to her? If you are close enough during the service to observe that her baby isn't big enough by your standards (and do remember that this baby was apparently 1/2 the size of yours at birth!)
surely you are close enough to walk over and say "Hi. how's it going. I think I remember our babies are about the same age...."

I'm sorry if this comes across wrong and I realize there could be a parenting issue. There could also be issues you know nothing about. As a parent of children who have health issues I know that parents do not normally talk about these things w/ strangers b/c there is too much room for things to be misconstrued and too many judgemental attitudes out there. I think it is only fair to give this mom a chance to "defend" herself before you start gossiping about her not being a good mother since her baby isn't a giant.

ed to add: Just reread your post and thought I should add that my ds wasn't 20 lbs until he was *2*. I think your expectations may be skewed. We are all different sizes. :/ And pls. excuse all my typos. I'm :tol

[mom2threePKs]

Also, just to balance the scales a bit, a baby tht wa small for gestational age with no apparent reason would be followed more closely after birth with weighings etc. A pediatrician would be looking for FTT simply because she was small to start with. So if the baby is getting her regular well-baby checks she's probably either been diagnosed or she's just on the small side.

Why don't you get to know her just as a possible mom friend and you may find out more about their parenting styles and make a new friend in the process.

Magan

[haak]

Also my first dd was FTT and it had nothing to do with me not feeding her or scheduling her. I nursed on demand and never let her CIO but she had some digestion problems that we didn't know about so she never ate much. She was very tiny and still is but it hurt when people would say, "don't you ever feed her?"

[BluegrassMama]

:/ I knew a baby that was FTT from neglect. She was very, very small, but the only way I knew she was FTT was that her doctor said so and the mother didn't believe it and wouldn't feed her more. But she was bigger and juicier looking than some other babies I've known who were considered healthy :shrug .

So I don't think you can necessarily tell by looking, either.

I know that I'm a poor judge because all of my babies have been at least 10 pounds, and doubled their birth weight by 4-6 months. So any baby smaller looks scrawny to me.

I hope the baby in question is alright. Some doctors don't catch FTT as soon as they otherwise might, when the baby is Ezzo'ed. The mother says she's feeding her alot when she (the mother) doesn't realize that Ezzo's feeding recommendations are much less than the AAP's or LLL's. So the doc might not have a clear picture of how she is being fed.

[ArmsOfLove]

I didn't get the idea from the OP that she suspected FTT from the small birth weight, but was sharing that to say that her perspective from seeing her big guy might be causing her to misjudge. It was her way of saying she's trying to not go just on weight. What concerns me is the way she said the baby is This little girl looks like a newborn. Her arms & legs are sooo skinny. She's got no babyfat as far as I can see. And no life to her. We were behind them the last 2 Sundays & the baby just sits in her carrier & stares. This is not the description of a healthy 6 month old.

I do agree it could be normal, it could be due to some health issue, but it could also be due to neglect. Either way, I would be concerned about the child.

[Winkie]

(((hugs))) to the mamas who felt offended by my post - that was certainly not my intention! :heart i'm *not* trying to compare this baby with mine, other than 6 mo old behavior. i mentioned my baby's weight to say that i don't know how large a 6mo old should be that started out that little. my SIL has a dd who was full-term & healthy & weighed 4 lb 13 oz at birth. we don't live near them, but in her 6 mo picture my neice was sitting & smiling & looked pudgy (tho i was told she was still very small).

this baby at church doesn't seem to move around much. she doesn't smile. her mom had baby on her lap & was smiling at her & the baby just stared back. she looks ... sickly. so there may very well be some health issue. i'm not trying to point fingers. i was just wondering if there was an ezzo connection - my only experience w/ ezzo has been what i've read here at gcm. probably a bigger flag to me is their older boys behavior, or rather lack of it. it also seems unnatural for 3 young boys to just stand through church without wiggling, etc. i hope i've explained a bit better. :shifty

[snlmama]

I'm sorry. I should not have posted here. Go ahead and criticize away here, but please, please be gentle w/ this mother and try to use kind words if you bother to actually talk to or befriend her.

Have a nice day and I'm sorry my suggesting you assume positive intent until you know otherwise was offensive to you.

[Winkie]

no, no, no! I absolutely *do not* expect a 4 lb baby to be 20 lb at 6 months!!! And I'm certainly not saying that she's a bad mother!

(((snlmama))) i seem to have offended you & i apologize for that.

i was simply pondering out loud (online) & looking for input.

[sadie]

Either way, if you are too offended by the fact that she may not parent as perfectly as you to even talk to her you will never find out what the reality of the situation is. Really, I do urge you to talk to her, but try to find something nicer to say than "You're baby is too small and your boys are robots

This is really an unnecessarily harsh comment. :( Let's try to assign positive intent with each other and realize that no harm was meant...only a mama concerned for the well being of a baby. No judgement or rudeness was intended by the OP.

[joandsarah77]

>>>i don't know how large a 6mo old should be that started out that little

Just so you know small babies can get big.
My ds was 5lb 4oz at birth, but droped down to 4lb 9 at a week old due to my lack of milk. His arms and legs were like sticks. We nick named him 'the weed' . Let me tell you he has grown like one!
He was weighed 3 weeks ago at 7 months at 20lb exactly.

A small baby should at 6 months still look healthy and livly, I'de be concerned too.

Jo

[milkmommy]

My DD was failure to thrive, you the sunken soft spots is what really clued me in her skin was also looking jaundiced.
I think its okay to "ask" but do so carefuly she might just have a small child or a sickly one. SHe could deffiently use another friend and not someone to critize her (even if she "is" doing something we disaprove of)
Saying "Hey lady don't you ever feed her shes skin and bones", umm not the best way (I know you wouldn't) saying WOW what a precious baby I love her tiny little feet how old is she again? might be a "nicer" way to get HER to open up.
She might be looking for support herself.

Deanna

[LAS]

My son was a skinny little baby and FTT for the first couple of months. We had so much trouble getting him to eat! I fed on demand, but he was an inefficient eater no matter what way we tried. Finally we found out that he was lactose-intolerant and he did a little better after that. But it wasn't until I started him on solid, homemade baby food around 5 mo. old that he really filled out. Although he's still a thin guy and so is my daughter. They are both in the 5th % for weight- but then again I'm underweight according to those charts too. He did get to 20 lb's around his first birthday though. Now,many other babies just look fat to me!

I got some hurtful comments about what a little guy he was. They hurt me because I was worried to death over my little guy and just wanted to figure out why he was losing weight! My guy was also really laid back his first year and was content to just snuggle in the sling, so if you saw him you might have thought he wasn't as lively as other babies too. Now I miss those days of holding and slinging all the time!

[Winkie]

thank you all for your replies. i do feel i've been somewhat misunderstood, but it's ok. i don't wish to criticize this mother, it's not my nature to think badly of other people. i see a sweet, precious baby that doesn't look healthy - for reasons that i'm not privy to. maybe the mom & i will become friends - i sure could use some irl. as i said, this is a new church for us, so i don't know yet how most folks parent. i'm an introvert & it's hard for me to make friends - i feel better when i'm armed with info ahead of time. the things i noticed, when put all together, reminded me of things i've read here about ezzo, so i thought i'd ask those of you who know more about that teaching than i do if you thought there might be a connection.

[LAS]

From my experience and what other mom's have shared here, there are many reasons why a baby could be small and older children introverted in church. It would probably just be best to chat with her in a friendly way and if she chooses to say anything about it, then you'd know.

I didn't think it sounded like you would think badly of this mom. Realize though, that it could be hurtful or offensive for a mom of a small baby to find out that someone else thought they were at fault by following the Ezzo method or schedule when the situation may be nothing like that at all. You just don't know.

If you are curious about the parenting style or philosophy of the pastor or the church overall, I'm sure the pastor or children's director would be glad to share that with you if asked. You could also ask about the policies for handling children in the nursery and Sunday School etc. and their philosophy for children in the service.

I hope you find a new church you can fit into soon! :-)

[LAS]

Also, you could ask her how she gets the children to sit so quietly during church. I asked a family I know about this and they told me they started doing family devotions at home with practice in sitting quietly.

If they are into Ezzo she might mention blanket-training. I knew a lady who did that with her girls to get them to sit quietly in church as babies. I didn't know what it was at the time, and when I found out I knew I would never do that as it didn't seem developmentally appropriate or right to me even then.

[snlmama]

I didn't think it sounded like you would think badly of this mom. Realize though, that it could be hurtful or offensive for a mom of a small baby to find out that someone else thought they were at fault by following the Ezzo method or schedule when the situation may be nothing like that at all. You just don't know.




I agree with this. I don't think you would *intentionally* hurt this mom, but some things that might seem "OK" to say for a mom of a big baby could really be hurtful to the mom of a small baby. I would probably not even mention the size difference until you know her better or she brings it up. :/ Trust me, she knows that your child is bigger than hers. It has probably been "mentioned" to her by more than one person. :(

I like LAS idea of complimenting her on how still her kids sit in church. She'll be more than happy to share that it's all b/c of Ezzo or Pearl if she's into that.