would you bother?

[milkmommy]

I have a Pearl following neighbor. Well yesterday she said something that I'm in :eek over.
Shes been spanking her child because he keeps messing with the window thats loose beside the back door. According to her He keeps going and pushing at it and shes afraid its going to fall out so she keeps spanking him but its been days its NOT working. I asked her so if you figured out spanking doesn't work or even makes things worse would you try another way. SHe said..
I'd spank even if it did nothing to correct the behavior because God says we have to spank. :/ :eek :banghead :mad SO how in the heck do you answer that?

Deanna

[schoolofmom]

Wow. :eek That's just sad. :( I don't know what I'd say. Probably I'd be so mad on behalf of everything I believe about discipline that I'd just have to go back inside.

[booboo]

I'd ask her if God would tell you to do something that doesn't work. :doh Then tell her to get the door fixed! :idea

[milkmommy]

I'd ask her if God would tell you to do something that doesn't work.

According to her its not the spankings that are the problem but the sinful stubborness of her child :eek :cry

Deanna

[Dizzy Blond]

I'd ask her if she has any sinfulness or stubbornnes? :mrgreen

[katiekind]

That is exactly the point where I don't understand how the thought process works. I understand that some people think the Bible says you have to spank. But still, most people who interpret it that way do decide what is and isn't going to merit a spanking, and use many other forms of discipline as well. I mean you do see them using persuasion, ('come here honey, don't bother Granddad while he's napping') verbal reprimands, logical consequences, distraction--lots of things. So, when parents who believe the Bible says you have to teach mix in those other forms of discipline--are they disobeying God's word?

Or do they have some kind of extra criteria for when they should spank? In my experience, that is usually the case. They have decided *for themselves* (or a parenting authority figure has told them) that certain offenses merit a spanking. But according to the black/white way your friend expressed herself, if you ever see her using some other form of discipline (including teaching) then she is disciplining in an unbiblical manner.

I don't know whether she'd be open to explaining how she justifies using other forms of discipline at various times, but has to stick with spanking over the window/door situation. *Sigh* I hope she figures it out.

You may have planted a seed of doubt about her method just by saying what you said. You did well.

[milkmommy]

Well this is what she told me. She spanks for noy obeying when she told him the first time to leave the window alone he should have stopped he didn't so he gets spanked (she uses a flexiable ruler BTW) since its "natural" for the body to want to avoid more pain his "Choice" to couninue means hes being sinfull the problem in her mind is no longer the window (which BTW could actually harm him) but his stubborness, its become a battle she must win. :cry Its pearl at his best :rolleyes

Deanna

[chelsea]

That is really sad. I think though that if I were you I would say something to her like "Did you know that the Bible does NOT tell us to spank our kids?" and then when she gives you a "Are-you-out-of-your-mind" look, hand over the rod word studies, etc. I know it may seem like a waste of your time to do so, but at one time I too believed that God commanded us to spank and thought I "had to". I never actually got around to spanking my son (the thought of it felt so wrong and so I used his young age as an excuse to put it off while desperately searching for some way to prove spanking as wrong) but for a long time felt a sense of hopeless resignation that to "obey God" I would eventually have to begin spanking. Have you shared your beliefs with her? Maybe she uses Pearl but is desperate to find another way, and maybe God placed you there to show her the other way? Just a thought. :shrug

[SandKsmama]

There are only two ways to combat that hard core "The Bible says we must spank" mentality - I know b/c I believed that a few years ago:-) One, your example...the *only* reason I began to believe that there actually grounded, solid believers who didn't spank was b/c I knew one personally. Until then, I thought anyone who called themselves a Christian but didn't believe in spanking was liberal, and didn't believe God's Word was true. It's a *hard* thing to get past, b/c if you've been taught that that's what God says all your life, then every time you choose NOT to spank, you feel like you're going against God.

And Two, after you've lived your example in front of this person, THEN you can introduce the idea that there are solid, grounded believers out there who have researched and gone back to the original languages, etc. and do not believe that "those" verses are saying to spank our kids. I will tell you, it took me quite a long time to even get my mind to accept that it was possible. Probably from the first time I really began to consider the idea, it was a year before I really accepted that God didn't tell me to spank my kids.

Overall, love her. Love her son. Be an example. Show her different ways to handle situations (by your example I mean, not by telling her "you should do this" LOL) .

hth!
Amanda

[Katherine]

I was really hard core, too, about believing the Bible taught me I HAD to spank, and I didn't know any Christian in real life who didn't..

For me, the fact that spanking WASN'T working... was, in fact, escalating ds's undesirable behavior and creating terror and chaos in our home... bringing out the moster in me... that's what really set the ball in motion. I did have in the back of my mind the knowledge that there was another POV out there b/c I had read some of Dr. Sears stuff. Honestly, I thought his disciplinary ideas were secular, humanist psycho babble and turned up my nose at them... very judgemental. :blush I believed any Christian who didn't spank was just purposefully choosing to ignore or disobey God's Word.

Same as what a previous poster said... it was a while after I tried to STOP spanking before I really became convinced that the Bible doesn't require it... I had to grow in my understanding of and confidence with GBD. I had to see the changes in myself.. I had to take spanking out of the picture and be left to struggle with my own anger.. having no place to vent it... and recognize that although I never would have dreamed I was using spanking as an outlet, that's exactly what it had become.

Anyway.. I could ramble on, but I think it would be a great thing for you to present her with some reading material. You could start by simply asking her how thorough of an exegesis she had done on those verses and passages which she believe support spanking.. has she ever considered the exegesis of others? I might be tempted to say, "Clearly, you're very interested in knowing God's truth and obeying it. In the interests of rightly dividing God's Word, would you read this and pray over it? God has certainly shown me some surprising things as I've begun to dig deeper for answers about parenting." If you're afraid you'll be nervous, you could just jot a note and attach it to the papers you give her. Maybe the Rod Study and possibly some of Crystal's articles from her web site... or perhaps some book recommendations.. Clay Clarkson maybe?

Whatever you decided to go.. :hug I hope God will lead your friend to truth and compassion.