Which Punitive Parenting Ideas Influenced You?

[TulipMama]

If you had punitive parenting ideas impact you before leaving them behind to embrace gbd/positive parenting, which writers/teachers were influential?

You can select as many as apply. Feel free to explain what "other" punitive authors impacted you.

I'm trying to get a "feel" for where the mamas here in the UFP folder are coming from. *grin*

I answered all of the above--but most strongly would have been the Ezzos.

[schoolofmom]

I still have Dobson's voice in the back of my head some days. :rolleyes

[Katherine]

I grew up with standard Baptist "discipline" and my parents read and listened to a lot of Dobson's stuff, so I was influenced by him from childhood. I read his books when I became a parent, too, but he seemed mild compared to what most of the families I grew up with actually *did* plus--from a parenting perspective--he left a lot of questions unanswered in my mind. Still, those ideas are the most deeply ingrained and "programmed" b/c they've been prevalent my whole life.

There is also a lot of cultural influence.. just old-fashioned, conservative ideas about parental authority and "whippin," and "switchin."

When ds1 was 6 mos. old, a friend gave me TTUAC and the 2 books that follow it. I started reading and re-reading.. thinking, talking to dh, etc... over the next several months. That was probably the most dramatic (and destructive) punitive influence on me as a parent. His methods struck me as shocking and a bit extreme at first, but began to seem like a more thorough, "purified" version of what I had always been taught, plus he broke everything down into such detail that I was drawn to it. (I was really floundering at the time and at a loss for what do to with my very spirited and determined young man)

[Mothering by Heart]

When I was pg with my first, we were approached at church and told about this "great" program that will get us on track after having our baby. The baby would be so easy and not keep us up at night :rolleyes

[Allison]

well, I grew up with my parents under the influence of Dobson. That kind of stuff is always in the back of my head. I was never into spanking, but I have problems with yelling, which I consider to be just as bad--if not worse--than spanking. I struggle almost daily to keep that part of personality under control.
In not being a spanking parent, I would tend to lean toward being permissive and then yell when things got out of hand. Thank goodness my guys were very, very young when I found GCM. Drew was 2.5 and Alex was just 6 months. I thank God that I found this place so early in my parenting adventure!

[Wholly Mama]

I chose Dobson and "other". The "Other" being my parents!! My parents being Dobson followers, I guess you could just say Dobson!!
Allison, you and I sound a lot alike!

[cornflower]

I said Dobson's. I grew up in SBCs, so Dobson was pretty much the *only* way to parent when I was a child. As a result, I have "voices in my head" :lol that sometimes make me want to **make** my children obey as opposed to helping them obey. :rolleyes

I never followed Ezzo's parenting ideas, but I've been faced with parents who have. As a result, I've been heavily influenced by Ezzo, but just not in the way Ezzo would like. ;) My exposure has made me very aware of the harmful effects of CIO and scheduling BF. As a result, I am very involved in witnessing to parents about AP and how it fits within God's grace paradigm.

[Mamaka]

Ezzo since that is what was taught at our church. We weren't actually parents at the time but were both active in children's ministries (daycare, sunday school, basketball coach, etc) so had a lot of "training." I'm thankful, though I loved that church family, that we had moved away by the time ds was born and had been exposed to Dr. Sears books by then.

[ChristineG]

I said Pearls and others. The others are other moms at another board that I was involved in for a brief time. I have always been an ap parent, but when our ds was 3yo, I started questioning the discipline side. WHY, WHY didn't he behave? I ran across a few articles and books and they influenced me just at the wrong time. I joined the particular board I mentioned, which was not specifically about child-rearing, but had all kinds of legalistic stuff and the Pearls were considered #1 in terms of parenting. I got sucked in somehow and it took me over a year to truly detox. :cry I am so grateful that God helped me out of that terrible pit. :heart In many ways, I am also grateful (though sorry, too) that we went through that punitive, controlling stage. I was pretty cocky about ap/gentle discipline before this and tended to look down on anyone who didn't do things my way. I really, truly believe that this is the very best way to raise children. I don't believe that it is just a matter of personal preference, personality or anything. I think ap/GBD give our children the very best and best model Jesus' love. However, having gone through a couple of years of walking in the shoes of the 'other side', I am now much more empathetic and understanding toward them. I am more likely to see them as horribly misled and in bondage than to see them as uncaring, lazy or mean. :heart

I must say that I also gained a new insight on Dr. Dobson and I no longer slate him into the same category as the Ezzos or the Pearls. I really believe that he is a man who dearly loves the Lord. I completely disagree with him on many, many points, but I have also read a few things that make me believe that he does have a kind and understanding side to him. I definitely don't go out of my way to get his books or articles (except that I do own Bringing Up Boys and appreciated a lot of that), but I do think that I was able to do what we tell moms at LLL to do, "Take what works for you and leave the rest." I don't find that his written material has the same negative influence on me that the Pearls stuff does. With the Pearls and other similar writers, Reb Bradley was another one, their books are like poison to me. If I ingets it, it does damage. Dr. Dobson doesn't affect me like that....though PLEASE don't think I am trying to endorse his materials!! :eek I really have tended to steer clear of most of them.

[Charlie U]

I put "other" meaning my parents. It's been so hard for me to break out of how I was raised. I get absolutely horrified with myself when I start throwing labels around. My mom has said I was lazy as long as I can remember. (Apparently, I didn't cry after birth and the dr told her I was too lazy to cry. Nice start, huh?) Definately not something I want my dds to grow up hearing.

[kris10s]

Other: Tedd Tripp. I've read SACH and attended his conference and though he has good intentions that really captured me, it's a slippery slippery slope...

[mrsramjet]

my 'other' is kind of punitive in some respects and not in others.
the boundary books.
i didn't realize how much i was influenced by them until i started re reading them recently.
i learnt a lot about 'empathy' as a tool from their books and they are not pro spanking. also they say with balancing grace and truth that when in doubt go with grace. this is all good.
BUT they continually say things like 'part of your little angel's make up is a criminal mind. he thinks he's powerful enough to avoid the results of his actions.'
'consequences transfer the need to be responsible from the parent to the child'
'it's scary how our kids can sense when we are weak and ready to give in to them.
.......
kids' work us and work us and work us.'
stuff like that.

so i think that they rely too much on consequences and rewards,
but are not really punitive.
more adversarial.

ps - i do like the idea that reality teaches us and that if you go nuts the problem the kid has is not his behaviour, but his crazy mother. lol.
sorry if all this wasn't appropriate to this thread.

[TulipMama]

Kris10s,
*Ack* I should have put Tripp up there instead of Fugate. (For some reason, they popped to mind. . .)


Christine, I love your post. *hug* And personally, I agree with you about Dobson being one of those that is easier to glean the good from, without the bad impacting thought patterns. (Well, that's what I remember anyway. . .)


"Other" for me would probably include a lot of the mothers I knew when I was a teenager. They definitely had a lot of love and active involvement with their children. But the negative was a huge focus on controlling and viewing every little misstep as a *big deal* that needed immediate correction (usually swats.)

[Peepsqueak]

When I first started with raising my kids I thought the Pearls/Woodshed were purists in raising and dedicating themselves into families. Many people seemed like they had the old fashioned way of doing things which seemed best. As time went on, I felt uncomfortable and chose the original route I desired when raising children.

My biggest obstacle was the way marriage and women were percieved in Pearls/Woodshed mentality. I could never agree to disagree on these issues and felt out of place among these types of Christians. Therefore I resolved by going another direction. I do not consider it the "wrong" direction of unChristian.

I was a member of the Woodshed board and these ladies were nice ladies. However,I simply felt further away from the ideals.

[UltraMother]

When I was pg with my first baby, my mom sent me Fugate and Dobson, so I would be "ready". I also read a lot of John Rosemond on my own, who seemed to be milder than the others because he was pro-spanking but not regimented about it.

[Lillyma]

The book that convinced us to spank was "Spanking: How? Why? When?" by Roy Lesson.
Then I read "Raising Children Who Hunger for God".
But by far the most damaging & strongest influence was TTUAC & the Pearls newsletter. We fell for that hook, line, & sinker for 8 +years. :(

[DebraBaker]

I was put under a lot of pressue when I was a new Christian to spank and generally be punitive.

As above Roy Lessin was particularly shrill, There was a book in the '80's called, (you'll love this one) "G-d, the Rod, and Your Child's Bod" Lovely, huh? and Fugate's "What the Bible says....." I got that book *free* with my first homeschol order very first homeschooling from something called Victory Christian Academy (something like that)

Anyway, when I read the first Sears books I was greatly relieved to start following my own heart.

Debra Baker

[bex]

I put dobson (i read the copies my mom still had) and ezzo. other for me was also tripp. my mom visited here after dd was born and stayed for a month. she brought all the gbd books i had ordered since we were punitive up until late june of last year. she and i talked about gbd a lot. she got really sad at one point and said she wished she known other ways to parent when my sisters and i were little. :( I couldn't bring myself to burn the tripp book we brought with us when we moved so i had my mom take it back on the condition that she not give it to anyone. i wish i'd burned it. that was the one that convinced me to spank. :blush

[arymanth]

I followed Dobson for 10 years, and I had well worn, highlighted and underlined copies of "Dare to Discipine", "The Strong Willed Child", and "Parenting isn't for Cowards". These teachings were strongly encouraged by our church, and it is what my parents followed when I was a child. I spent 10 years of my parenting life FIGHTING with my kids for control.... and here I am 6 years later I am still struggling with what I started 16 years ago.

I am sooooo glad that there are places like this where I can learn from other "gentle moms"!


Stephanie

[Miss Priss]

We took an Ezzo class we were even pg with our 1st (boy, those leaders just thought we were great and talked all about how we were going to be the best parents and so prepared, etc. If only I had known then what I know now- about child rearing, and about children. :laughtears)

We also had some Pearl influence- someone gave us one, even then it made me sick, but there were a couple of things that we attempted, we're sorry to say.

And a *lot* of Dobson- my parents were very into Dobson when we were teenagers.

[Tengokujin]

I checked off Dobson and other, meaning my parents and family. I was raised in your typical fundie Christian home. We were spanked, but not a lot. It was rather arbitrary about when it would happen too. I don't remember what I was every spanked for, but I do remember veryclearly the feeling that I was totally misunderstood in those times and that it was totally unjust!!

I DO have "little voices " in my head, mostly my Mom's, telling me to swat babies that struggle at diaper changes :eek I have had to pray so much about that one,to over come it and have a plan to avoid the temptation :blush And other stuff when I choose to be soft toward my DS and not make a power struggle--I can "hear" my mother. I felt like I made some strides with that by talking back out loud to the internal message --i.e. "I WON'T leave my baby to cry!" "I WON'T nurse sitting on a toilet!"My SIL and brother use some sort of Ezzo material, I believe. they haven't been preachy with me, but actually complimentary to me but I feel weird around them about these things and I feel so bad for my nephews and niece. So far I have tried to encourage them to enjoy (not complain about ) their kids, and that BFing is GOOD!!!

Still working to let God transform my mind....

[MamaBeth]

My mother.

[shilohmm]

I was influenced by everyone the list except, oddly enough, Ezzo. I also had Roy Lessin's Spanking: How? Why? When? and one my mother gave me, The Christian Family by Larry Christiansen, which was awful. But in retrospect it explained a lot about my parent's attitudes. *sigh* I think mom gave me Dobson's The Strong-Willed Child as well - my parents definitely saw me as Dobson's Strong-Willed child, anyhow, and were most frustrated that Dobson's methods never worked on me as advertised. :P

My biggest problem with Dobson (and I agree that he's the least harmful on that list) is that like the rest he teaches that if you use his methods and they don't work, it's because you weren't serious enough or dedicated enough or in some other way it's a failure on the parent's part. He may be less dogmatic now then he used to be (I read most of his stuff in first editions and I've heard he softened his stance some), but there's still an underlying current of "any parent who tries will succeed with this method," which encourages pride in parents whose kids respond well to the methods - and guilt and frustration in parents when the methods fail. And, yes, he does encourage an adversarial perspective, I think.

I really like his writings and efforts in other areas, but at this point his parenting attitudes bother me so much I won't read him. :( There's a book that's written almost in response to his - Strong-Willed Child or Dreamer?, because these counselors had so many people who'd tried Dobson's methods and they'd failed, and the parents couldn't figure why, because the child appeared to be a classic example of Dobson's strong-willed child. I thought it an interesting book - and it explained a lot about why my dad was so angry and took things I did so personally (which he generally doesn't - take things personally, that is). He'd assumed I was strong-willed, as he is, and so was sure I was deliberately doing these things to make him angry.

I read Tripp, as well, though he isn't listed here. I think the behaviorist stance that underlies these kind of books almost garuntees that the child's actual personality ends up ignored. Dobson recognizes that kids can have different personalities - strong willed or compliant - but he doesn't recotnize any personalities that don't respond well to his system. I do think the majority of kids fit into his theories well enough that his system often works, but that doesn't mean it always works and that doesn't mean it's a good thing when it appears to work. My other problem with these systems is that they focus on the child's good behavior rather than on bringing the child to Christ or on the parent acting in a Christian manner toward the child. Even Tripp, who talks a good story when it comes to heart issues, ultimately puts the focus on behavior, not on the heart. :(

Sheryl

[phermion]

:bheart Ezz0....and more Ezz0.....and more Ezz0....
oh, and some mennonite material I got on tape at a HS convention....whole section of godly home with "how to spank".
I still have such a sense of relief knowing this board is here. :O

[button_soup_for_4]

I'm wondering if the Mennonite materials you are refering to are the same ones given to me with along with Mr. Pearl's book. I'm going to end up driving myself nuts trying to think of his name.

Cindy

[greenemama]

I thank God that I found this place so early in my parenting adventure!

this is so true of me. :) while i think i've got some hang ups due to performance-based expectations of me (bill gothard, bob jones university) i came to GBD pretty early on. :hkiss

[expatmom]

None of the above. When I was 9-13 our church was pretty heavy handed & punative. I know they were big into Bill Gothard. But eventually we were asked to leave when my parents made some good choices for us kids, by sending us to a different non-church supported school. I didn't read anything by those folks on my own parenting journey. My tendancies towards punativeness unfortunately can be blamed on no one but my own sinful nature! :hissyfit

[ChristineG]

My tendancies towards punativeness unfortunately can be blamed on no one but my own sinful nature!


Hmmmm, sounds like me...minus the controlling church. My parents were great, growing-up. They practiced GBD, never spanked, went to parenting classes and my mom was an LLL Leader. For me to have the urge to spank as often as I do only points to my sinful nature, not to anyone else. Well said, expatmom!!

[Joanne]

I voted Pearl/Woodshed. It never really "stuck" but I read lots of Pearl stuff during a particularly vulnerable time........and it began to make sense and made me question my choices! This, after literally teaching GBD for a couple of years. :td :blush

There is something seductive and evil about his writing.

On a related note, I never read any of his stuff, but Fugate himself supposedly came by my site and signed my guestbook. None to positively, either.

[tui_song]

My parents first of all, and I think they were probably influenced by Dobson. My mum said I ripped up their copy of 'Dare to Discipline' when I was a toddler. :P I was smacked every day for a long time - I was very strong willed. My younger siblings didn't get punished nearly as much. My mum is anti-smacking now. She really hated it when I was smacking my dd before I found out about GBD, but my dad supported me. However I have since told him that I don't believe in it any more, and will probably talk to him more about it when I see him next. I am very close to my dad and always have been, despite the punitiveness in my upbringing.

Before my dd was born I read 'Babywise'. The problem wasn't so much the schedule feeding, which I didn't really follow, but the philosophy, that my child was trying to control me and that I should control her instead. :( It is hard to get that out of my head. Babywise seems to be quite popular in Christian circles here in NZ. I have seen it in our local Christian bookshop.

[Sanveann]

I had really fallen for the Woodshed line and was discussing it on another board when someone directed me here :)

[APMamaX4]

I had really fallen for the Woodshed line and was discussing it on another board when someone directed me here :)


Me too....hook, line, and sinker. :rolleyes

What's funny is.... just like many of the ladies on that board (at least, back when I was posting anyway) I actually came to woodshed from an ap background. Then when I felt like I was being too harsh, went back to ap. I think I actually went to "permissive" tho because I was sooooo lost as to what to do since I was no longer spanking, kwim? Well, we have been doing PD again for several months now-the longest we have stuck w/it, besides AP from infancy til age 2 with the oldest lol-and I finally have a "grasp" of what PD should really look like. I have the "tools" in my toolbox now. :tu

I would love to talk more indepth with those others who have been affected by Pearls/Woodshed. Maybe we could be each other's support :grouphug My biggest thing *now* that I need help with is....rebuilding that attachment with my older children that got lost in the Pearl/Woodshed hoopla. :bheart :banghead

[TulipMama]

My biggest thing *now* that I need help with is....rebuilding that attachment with my older children that got lost. . .

*hug* That is one of the prime things this UFP folder is for--helping those of us who have done things that have undermined our relationship with our children, reattach and rebuild.

One of the things that has been key with my older children is doing some of the things we do with younger children. Lots of physical touch, snuggling, cuddling, holding, etc. For our family, that means that while the boys are tucked in their own beds now, they are free to come climb in bed and cuddle with us if they wake in the night or early in morning. (Cosleeping isn't just for babies! *grin*) Lately, my Hubby has had work to do past my bedtime, so I'll carry a child into my bed to snuggle and sleep with me.

Hmmm. . . Why don't you start another thread on reattaching with older children?

[Peepsqueak]

I was a Woodshedder for 3 years, so I know what you mean. I found this board through the Woodshed. Please pm me anytime you would like for support, and discussion. I would be interested to know your experiences.

Peepsqueak

[4blessings]

I was a Woodshedder for 3 years, so I know what you mean. I found this board through the Woodshed. Please pm me anytime you would like for support, and discussion. I would be interested to know your experiences.

Peepsqueak


Peepsqueak, I'm so glad you found your way over here! Did WSing "work" for you? I used to lurk there a lot and always felt like it must be so hard for a parent to make the switch away from it b/c they're so persuasive. I have never practiced punitive parenting, but I had to stop reading those posts b/c I found myself becoming increasingly punitive with my own children. (Why is that? Power of suggestion or something?) Do you feel like your relationship with your children has improved since leaving the WS?

[Peepsqueak]

I have to confess, my woodshed parenting was not very good. In other words, I was not good at the woodshed techniques. I tried tomato staking. That was stressful for me to say the least. I tried the swatting for not obeying immediately; it was like a game to the kids. They were all under 7 years old at the time (4,5,and 6). I really did not reinforce well, because I was tired and didn't really have all day to chase them around to find out every move they made. So,the woodshedding was a failure for me.
Also, I do not homeschool so I cannot keep them with me all day to control everything. The minute the ruling with the "iron hand" was not around, they ran wild. So...it did not work well. I was consistant too....
Anyway, it was a techinique I tried for a short while. The first year on the woodshed was just learning and not application. The second year was application, which 85% of it was a waste of my time. And the third year was my exchanging views on family life....that was an interesing experience. I had respect for what the ladies on the woodshed were doing, but I was not able to do it. I also differed with them on political and social issues. They were extreme right. I am left and would considered liberal. The things I do agree with them on is natural family planning, have as many kids as you can (but one difference is economy should be factored in to some extent), most of the marriage issues were controversal, and I was a working mother....well that spells out a lot. Considering the fact I was different I got along with most of them very well.

[APMamaX4]

I thank God that I found this place so early in my parenting adventure!

this is so true of me. :) while i think i've got some hang ups due to performance-based expectations of me (bill gothard, bob jones university) i came to GBD pretty early on. :hkiss


What's odd is that I discovered AP when my oldest was a few months old. Besides having spanked, it's the only way I have ever parented. How I slipped off the track is beyond me :(

[Katherine]

What's odd is that I discovered AP when my oldest was a few months old. Besides having spanked, it's the only way I have ever parented. How I slipped off the track is beyond me

I was very AP with my first son, and LOVED Dr. Sears books.... except for his ideas on discipline. :/ That was just an exception to the AP rule for me at the time.

And I KNOW when I slipped off track... it was somewhere around the time that I read TTUAC. :sick Also I think had a lot to do with ds starting to become more mobile and asserting himself... doing behaviors I had been taught to think of as defiant and rebellious.

[mom2threePKs]

Ezzo in 1995 Babywise format made me very adversarial in my thinking. anytime the baby didn't do what I wanted her to do I took it very personally. Also the fear mongering that he is so good at. Each time I felt like I didn't have control I worried that I was setting myself up for huge problems down the road. I'm not even sure I knew what those problems were just that it wouldn't be good!!!!!!

The family that I babysat for all the time as a teenager were very into Dobson. They were even on the FOTF board at one point I think. That influenced me a lot. The dad had some serious control issues. Really serious. It was disfunctional looking back but it certainly influenced me. I read strong willed child when dd was about 1. Should have been reading Your One Year Old. Strong willed child just made me more controlling and adversarial. I really felt like if I didn't win each and every little conflict by force (rather than humor, negotiation or distraction) I wasn't paretning properly. Not good! Found Woodshed by accident was slightly influencial but found GCM shortly there after and started to change my ways!!

Hallelujah!

God is so good....

Magan

[DogwoodMama]

I wasn't able to participate in the quiz, b/c none of the ideas influenced me. I found out about AP before I got pregnant, and found GCM while I was pregnant. What a blessing! :heart

[APMamaX4]

I wasn't able to participate in the quiz, b/c none of the ideas influenced me. I found out about AP before I got pregnant, and found GCM while I was pregnant. What a blessing! :heart


That's nice (I mean that, not being sarcastic) :) See, I found out about AP when my oldest was a few months old... but then by the time DC hit around 2ish, all the aPers I knew were doing more like permissive parenting. Permissive parenting was all the hype back then. I remember reading a post once on an AP board where the topic was children coloring on walls. I hope no one here takes offense... but I remember a mom saying she didn't discipline over that--she joined in. Yes, joined in :eek :eek :eek and colored alongside the child. Mostly it was confined to the child's room, though. And b/c permissive parenting was the rage, there were soooo many "Wow-I didn't think of that! Maybe we should do that too!" and "We do this too!" posts. So after being permissive for a while, and always trying to help the kids get what they want, I had had ENOUGH needless to say lol. Oh well... I'm glad I found GCM :)

[MariJo7]

I see I'm the "old phossile" here :D. The punitive "parenting expert" I grew with was Larry Christenson. We were advised to read his books and follow his instructions. Larry Christenson is not a real "parenting expert" but rather a general, charismatic Lutheran, evangelical preacher, but he has written some books about parenting as well. He believes that the children should be raised in the "good, old fashioned way" with a lot of chores, rules and spanking. One of his books had a preface written by David Wilkerson, who strongly recommended the book and expected a real "revival" come out of it. By all means, I appreciate David Wilkerson, I do not mean to degrade him, but even people like him are not right in every matter.
When my oldest was a toddler, we were introduced to the teachings of James Dobson. I must honestly tell you: compared to Larry Christenson, he was a big relief! Can you imagine! I still remember his first video tape we saw at church. He told that children do not need to be spanked for everything, and that responsibilities are best learned by positive enforcement, not by punishing. If you think that James Dobson was a balancing influence in our lives, you might get some idea of how this Larry Christenson and our church was.
I have never heard about this Pearl before. I have read something about this Ezzo couple on the internet. They sound like everything I'm against at. I'm not aware that our church would have known him when we still were there, but they had some very similar things. I failed to breastfeed my two first children because of the ill advice of my pastor and his wife. I hated to leave my kids to the nursery during the church services. I never knew if they would be fed or if they would come to get me if necessary. Later I discovered the books and courses of La Leche League and considered them really helpful. Breastfeeding became something to me that I did not talk about at the church, a kind of safe haven for me and the babies.
It's all over now. The children have grown up, and as far as I can see, they are doing fine. Nobody demands me to spank any more or let my babies cry or do other things that feel so wrong. Still, the past is a very painful issue to me. Sometimes I even have nightmares about it.

[charla]

Still, the past is a very painful issue to me. Sometimes I even have nightmares about it.

:hugheart I'm so sorry.

[MariJo7]

What could be the common nominator of all these advocates of spanking? Where do THEY have their ideas from? They might say: "From the Bible", but there are other common sources as well.
One Grand Old Lady, whose influence should not be under estmímated, Was Mrs. Susan Wessley, the mother of the famous preacher brothers George and Charles. Some ideas pf Mr. Pearl come directly from her. It was Mrs Wessley who told that children need to learn to "fear the rod" and to "cry softly after punishments". If they cry aloud, that is a sign of rebellion and an indication that a new spanking is needed.
Many pro spanking authors cite Mrs Weasley. I once read a book by Charles Swindoll (You and Your Child). The book was wrtten in late 1980's. Swindoll also cited Mrs Weasley, especially about this making your chold "cry softly" before you can stop spanking.

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

I meant: the mother of John and Charles Wessley, of curse. Sorry for the typo.

[TenderLovingWillow]

That's really facinating.

I find a lot of what John Wessley go be very grace based in nature-especially in regards to the character of God-

But I'm not exceptionally knowledgable about him either-just what I have picked up along the way.

[flowermama]

I see I'm the "old phossile" here :D. The punitive "parenting expert" I grew with was Larry Christenson. We were advised to read his books and follow his instructions. Larry Christenson is not a real "parenting expert" but rather a general, charismatic Lutheran, evangelical preacher, but he has written some books about parenting as well. He believes that the children should be raised in the "good, old fashioned way" with a lot of chores, rules and spanking.

Oh, goodness! I have one of his books! I like to own books by punitive authors so that I can be more aware of what they teach, directly from their own writings, and so my mom buys them for me sometimes at second hand bookstores. Anyway, I have one of his parenting books, and it is awful. :bheart :hugheart

Nobody demands me to spank any more or let my babies cry or do other things that feel so wrong. Still, the past is a very painful issue to me. Sometimes I even have nightmares about it.

Isn't it wonderful how as they get older people stop doing that? I'm so sorry for the pain you've experienced and still experience. :hugs :pray4

[SewingGreenMama]

Can't vote on my phone but my main influence was my parents and local pastors/leaders who were strongly influenced by Dobson with some Tripp and Pearl mixed in the background.

It was actually reading debi's book for wives that turned me away and helped influence me to find other ways to parent.

---------- Post added at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

False biblical teachings were also a huge influence.
I was taught all the 'spanking' verses. I believed them to the point I believed my parents favored my brother because they quit spanking me when I was 7 but spanked my brother till around 11. Because of that verse 'he who spares the rod hates his son'.
I believed I wasn't well loved and I wasn't worth the hassle. Grounding was easy for them send me to my room and forget me. Spanking meant effort, meant they actually had to engage and work and want better from the child.
I didn't want my child to think that of me. I wanted my kids to know I loved them. And love meant spanking according to the bible as I knew it then. :cry :bheart

[tazmom]

I was influenced by Dobson in the sense that my parents followed his teachings and I wanted to do things as differently as possible from them.

I can still remember the day my dad recommended I read Dobson. I had never heard of him. Then I saw all the torment and abuse and fear I had suffered all laid out in a book. I was so ANGRY! How dare this random person write a book and destroy my life! It was all in there, the accusations of enjoying conflict, defiance for not implicitly agreeing with my parents, the idea that everything I did to act out was done in direct rebellion. :mad The spanking rituals. :shiver

I learned later that it wasn't all the book. My father's family had a long history of abuse. Dobson's ideas simply justified it as "Biblical."

[MariJo7]

That's really facinating.

I find a lot of what John Wessley go be very grace based in nature-especially in regards to the character of God-

But I'm not exceptionally knowledgable about him either-just what I have picked up along the way.

John Wessley certainly was a good preacher, but I really wonder, if he had such a happy childhood. His marriage was not a succes either. He had a very high regard for his mother, however, and the later generations of Bible believed christians have considered Susan Wessley as an example of a Christian mother. She has been quoeted by Dobson, Chuck Swindols and many others.
Also Martin Luther had a harsh mother...and he did praise her for that. How sad how this whipping culture has been passed by by generations. It really is not something new.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

Oh, goodness! I have one of his books! I like to own books by punitive authors so that I can be more aware of what they teach, directly from their own writings, and so my mom buys them for me sometimes at second hand bookstores. Anyway, I have one of his parenting books, and it is awful. :bheart :hugheart



Isn't it wonderful how as they get older people stop doing that? I'm so sorry for the pain you've experienced and still experience. :hugs :pray4

Yep. It is an awful book. :sick. I wish it was true that the people of our church had stopped to demand their members to "controll" their children in a hars way, but I'm afraid they have not. We have left that church so we don't really know what they are doing now, but I'm afraid they go on an on with their practices, and if the older people learn some wisdom and moderations, there will be younger people who take over the bad practices.

[milkmommy]

I'd never heard of any of these people until I came here. :shrug3 I was raised in a somewhat punitive home my parents spanked if they felt it needed but never in the name of anything biblical. I can't say every experience of my childhood felt fair or non threatening but I don't look back on my childhood with fear or regret either.

[JoEllen]

I never implemented any punitive parenting methods, but the Pearls messed with my head something awful when I made the mistake of reading their book (seriously, who gives TTUAC to a pregnant 16 year old at her baby shower?! :hunh). I wanted very much to do right by my son, and those people were always in the back of my mind making me question every decision I made.

[MariJo7]

Yes, that kind of books can cast a dark shadow over your head. Punitive parenting methods are damaging to the child, but the pressure to use them (from church, family or other people) can be very damaging for the mother also. It is, for instance, not easy for a woman to keep loving a husband who insists her to spaank or to feed by scedule and let the baby cry. Or to keep respecting a pastor who teaches such things and keeps books of Pear and Ezzo in the church book store.
Let's hope your friends who gave you that nasty book just made a mistake and judged the book by its cover. The title looks so nice and innocent. Perhaps the giver was not aware of the toxic contents of it. Perhaps (s)he would be sorry to know that it has caused you so much trouble of mind.

[rjy9343]

I had a mish mash of Dobson and Rosemond with a sprinkling of Ezzo. Thankfully God stopped me before Ivy was old enough to hurt or hit. Oddly enough the main reason I never did cotton to cio was because Rosemond said that for the first year life does revolve around the baby, but on the first birthday you start teaching otherwise. Or at least that was how I read his statement, he may have meant something completely different.
By the time Ivy was four months I was full steam ahead ap. I still have those voices in my head and at times struggle to be gentle with her. Those books play on all of your worst fears and are insidious.

[Jadegreenmama]

I started out attachment parenting and was really enjoying it and seeing lots of this. Then I moved and our church has been our only community, I found a lot of social pressures to spank. Usually I am not influenced by social pressure, just my personality I guess, but our women's bible study was reading Sheparding a Child's Heart, by Ted Tripp. I found myself feeling like maybe I wasn't being a godly parent, maybe I was failing to understand what God expected of me. I struggled through the book and found myself spanking, and crying and doubting everything.

Thankfully my husband was fully supportive in stopping the spanking and is on board with us returning to our own blend of attachment/godly parenting. Although, even still, I struggle to find patience for my now 3.5 year old boy, because spanking made me expect "first time obedience". It is getting better, but I am saddened by the time I wasted and the potential wall I put up between my son and I.

[JoEllen]

Let's hope your friends who gave you that nasty book just made a mistake and judged the book by its cover. The title looks so nice and innocent. Perhaps the giver was not aware of the toxic contents of it. Perhaps (s)he would be sorry to know that it has caused you so much trouble of mind.

The person who gave it to me was a very kind woman with no children of her own, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't really understand what she was giving me. :yes

[milkmommy]

AP kinda accidently fell into my lap...
The first "parenting" book I ever read was Dr Sears baby something (I forget the actual title) I basically asked DH to get me something to read because I was stuck in the hospital a few days longer than expected after Cecilia was born due to her Jaundice. So DH got me a Sears book from the hospital gift shop. :shrug3 (I have no clue what else they had)
I thought the Sears store put it out :shifty :giggle but thought the book was pretty okay and often remembered things it said or suggested as I delt with motherhood for the first time.It wasn't until some time latter I realized whom I'd actually read.

[Redeemed]

My influence was an odd mix of the Pearls, Ezzo, and Dobson. Got Babywise shoved down my throat when DD was a baby.

[Mother Duck]

Dobson was my mums hero. When I got pregnant with DD#1 I was given Ezzo and Pearl! So glad that I stumbled upon GBD when I was pregnant with DD#3.

[MegMarch]

I grew up with parents flying by the seat of their pants. No real theories or guidance. Timeouts, a few spankings, lots of lectures:shrug3 By the time I was almost in middle school my dad started listening a lot to Focus on the Family. That was the kind of mindset in the churches we attended, but it was never a focus of sermons and there was no "spank the love of Christ into your children" stuff that I noticed.

My friend had her first before I did and I read Ezzo on her recommendation when visiting her. She also had something from Pearl that she presented as comical but possibly applicable later. It all made so much sense:yes:mad:no

When I got pregnant I fell in with a hippie dippy crowd and found a better way. My SIL sent me Babywise which I read sometimes early on and felt was just so wrong, but it made me doubt myself a lot too. I stopped reading it. More kellymom, more GCM, more Sears, etc. I found my way much more confidently well before DD was 1 and DH has been on board the whole time.

[Stefanierose88]

Other: Tedd Tripp. I've read SACH and attended his conference and though he has good intentions that really captured me, it's a slippery slippery slope...

Yes, I even di the SACH workbook *ugh*

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

I started out attachment parenting and was really enjoying it and seeing lots of this. Then I moved and our church has been our only community, I found a lot of social pressures to spank. Usually I am not influenced by social pressure, just my personality I guess, but our women's bible study was reading Sheparding a Child's Heart, by Ted Tripp. I found myself feeling like maybe I wasn't being a godly parent, maybe I was failing to understand what God expected of me. I struggled through the book and found myself spanking, and crying and doubting everything.

Thankfully my husband was fully supportive in stopping the spanking and is on board with us returning to our own blend of attachment/godly parenting. Although, even still, I struggle to find patience for my now 3.5 year old boy, because spanking made me expect "first time obedience". It is getting better, but I am saddened by the time I wasted and the potential wall I put up between my son and I.

:hug2:hug2:hug2 I know just how you feel

[milkmommy]

I just realized how old this thread is.

[Beth1231]

It jumped from 2005 to 2014!
Wow,some old names mentioned here. David Wilkerson is the one who surprised me the most. Although he only wrote the preface for an awful book...I won't be able to think of him the same way.

My life was heavily affected by Dobson and Bill Gothard. I read Dobson's books many many times from age twelve to my early twenties when I was invited to gcm. At twelve,I was surprised to find my childhood laid out in a book,but I was still a child....And I wanted what my parents chose to be the Right thing.

Even after eight years of gcm,I will still occasionally slip into threatening,shame-based behavior and my husband raises his eyebrows and says "Honey,that wasn't you,that was Dobson."
:shiver

[YesiHomeschool]

I was mainly influenced by: The Pearls, Raising Godly Tomatoes (back when it was called The Woodshed), and Dobson (as a second generation under the influence).

[melissa5317]

I'll say Dobson via my mother, since that was the only thing she read. 'The Strong-Willed Child' was one of her favourites. :/

[MariJo7]

"Wow,some old names mentioned here. David Wilkerson is the one who surprised me the most. Although he only wrote the preface for an awful book...I won't be able to think of him the same way."

Yep, some old names here indeed. The preface by David Wilkerson to this awful book (The Christian Family by Larry Christenson) was also awful by itself. It was not just something like: "I hereby recommend this very fine, nice Christian book to you all, dear beloved, be ye thus educated...". No! It was an advertisement on spanking. Wilkerson wrote how much good it had done for him to have had frequend spankings from his dad in the "packhouse" in the backyard, and that kind of spankings had made him and what he was. And how he was hoping for a real "packhouse revival" (I read that book in anther language s I'm not sure if the "packhouse" is the right English word. I mean a barn, or something to store your garden tols and stuff.). That the "packhouse revival" would save the nation from being ruined. And he criticized an elder, unknown lady, who had come to him after a meeting to criticize him about his opinions on spanking. He cited her in not-a-very-nice manner and told that these kind of women were a bad influence. And so on. It was not just a nice introduction or a short word of dedication. It was a pro spankin sermon and a criticism against all of those who possibly might be opening their mouths to criticize the book.
I happened to notice that The Christian Family is till in print. It is being sold by several internet book stores. One of them was marketing it with a short recommendation statement by Ruth Graham.
Dear sisters amd mamas, we really are in the minority. The "spanking movement" is well and thriving. One reason for this may be that such many influential Christian leaders are lending their support to it.

By the way, I live in a country where spanking and other corporal punishment is prohibited by law. As far as I know, The book of Larry Christenson has not been available here for many years in the local language, and as far as I have understood it right, Dare to Discipline by Dobson is only available as an abbreviated version. :D. Books by Ross Campbell are popular here in the Christian circles.