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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
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23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

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Old 06-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #1
Elyse221
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Default Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

An unsolicited copy of No Greater Joy's bimonthly mag! Wasn't that nice of them?

I have a pretty good crap-dar so I read it out of curiosity. Most of it was pretty mild (other than the fact that I know what they mean every time they use the word "training").

But one thing really made me . Their son Nathan wrote how he makes his son eat green beans. "Even if he says he doesn't like them, even if it makes him cry, I compel him to eat them because I know he will be healthier and learn self-discipline if he has a history of eating green beans." That's bad enough but his conclusion is so laughable it's sad: "When he is a teenager and someone offers him drugs, it will be his habit to make choices based on a body of knowledge and a history of previous choices...he will not be easily led astray because he knows and cherishes a better way..."

So forcing your kid to eat green beans (in essence removing their choices) helps them make better choices later on? What if the pressure to do something wrong comes from someone else the child looks up to or a perceived authority figure? Seems to me it sets them up for failure...

I'm glad I can see this stuff for what it really is...
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

isn't it amazing how backwards the logic is? I have wondered if that is because this approach to parenting shuts down the brain before the age at which logic kicks in and instead focuses on filling the brain during the years before logic with things "memorized".
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #3
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

That's so funny. I needed the laugh. Thanks!

Oh, wait. He was serious.

It's hard to understand how people believe that, but I know they do.

It makes *opposite* sense-- see I'm forcing him against his will now, so he will be more susciptable to being pressured later b/c I've removed his sense of self.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klpmommy View Post
That's so funny. I needed the laugh. Thanks!

Oh, wait. He was serious.

It's hard to understand how people believe that, but I know they do.

It makes *opposite* sense-- see I'm forcing him against his will now, so he will be more susciptable to being pressured later b/c I've removed his sense of self.
This.
Honestly, it sounds like Nathan has had all his common sense & reason trained out of him by....Oh, yeah. His parents.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

Eeps, not I'm nervous because I request my kids do a 'try me' bite when I fix something new. If they take 2 bites and STILL 100% hate it then fine, but I do request they at least try it, not just dismiss it because it has something green or red in it...I will say, in most things (not all, but many) once they try it they like it. There are a couple meals that one of the other have tried and still hate. I'm okay with that (and I may still fix it if other people in the family like it, I'll make the one that doesn't like it pb&j or something)...so long as they've tried it.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klpmommy View Post
It makes *opposite* sense-- see I'm forcing him against his will now, so he will be more susciptable to being pressured later b/c I've removed his sense of self.

My favorite is the old I want them to be used to submitting to me so submitting to God is easier for them.

I totally get the desire behind that. I do. It gets a lot lost in applying it practically. You can't force someone to submit. It's a voluntary action. If you make them do it, they're not submitting--they're being compelled. And what happens when you're forced to do something for ages and suddenly that force stops?
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

How awesome. Perhaps No Greater Joy should consider a new article title: How to Train Compliant Lemmings.

Glad you didn't get sucked in, mama.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

This is very interesting to me. I have heard so very little about Nathan Pearl, I didn't even know his name. I would be interested in posting about (or linking to a post on) this topic, if anyone is interested in writing it.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

I was forced to ear brussle sprouts once till I was crying. Guess how many times I have had them since? Never, and I wont ever either. Forcing your child to eat green beans doesn't guarentee they won't do drugs or that they'll eat green beans when they are older for that matter.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

My first thought when I read the logic behind the green beans was what kind of drugs is he taking and where can I get them.
There are so many reasons that he could have given that would have at least made sense. It is good manners, to show respect for his mother's time, to learn to like them, it teaches self discipline, it reminds him I am in charge. All of those could be believed without checking your ability to think at the door. But to say that he will value his body and have the courage to refuse drugs is so convoluted that I have to wonder if he himself is on some sort of drug.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjy9343 View Post
But to say that he will value his body and have the courage to refuse drugs is so convoluted that I have to wonder if he himself is on some sort of drug.
Well, I believe the Pearls are pretty big into herbs and medicinal plants and such...

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Old 06-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

wow! is this really true? ok...this is in response to something I need to quote. hang on...still learning here.

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove View Post
isn't it amazing how backwards the logic is? I have wondered if that is because this approach to parenting shuts down the brain before the age at which logic kicks in and instead focuses on filling the brain during the years before logic with things "memorized".
wow! is this really true? does this happen like this?

Last edited by iwillhope; 06-23-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: b/c I thought I was replying to a specific post above.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:14 PM   #14
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We watched a segment on AFV the other night where a little girl was forced to eat green beans. She screamed and cried the whole time. One of the commentators called her a horrible child. . I was able to talk to cias about how horrible that wad, and how when it happened to me, i didn't eat green beans until i was an adult. I was so mad they showed it on there. Sadly it's on dvd, so we watch it often.

I would burn the magazine and send the Pearls the ashes. But they'd probably enjoy that.


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Old 06-23-2012, 06:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Guess What I Got in the Mail Today?

I , sadly , bought into the whole "you'll eat this and if you don't , you're disobeying me and I'll make you so you'll learn to listen and obey me" garbage.

My husband , upon viewing me forcing our son to eat green beans for the first time (I'd forced before , but dh wasn't home) , well , my hubby blew a gasket "Way to make him not only hate food , but hate you too in the process. No kid of mine will be forced to eat anything they don't want to. He tasted it , didn't like it , end of story. *to ds* you can get down little buddy , this won't happen again."

It stuck in my mind because I so desperately wanted to be the "good christian mom" and it was a rare time when dh spoke up and said , "Good christian mothers don't torture their children like that. " Made me cry , but also made me WAKE UP.

Glad you didn't get sucked in Mama...Glad you listened to your gut. (ftr: My son will be 20yrs old and I can't get him to taste any food. I ask , but he doesn't trust me , not even this many years later. My other two kids don't have these serious food issues. One will eat anything /try anything , and the other has food allergies ..her choices are limited...but she LOVES to cook/bake/experiment. It's just the one child...the one subjected to that twisted logic....that doesn't like new foods...doesn't trust others when they say 'it's good , have a bite." It's sad really. And my fault.)
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