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Old 11-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #31
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

Whole Foods sells several types of hand sanitizers - some with lavender, some with other oils. I've been using Clean Well - there's no alcohol in it. I'm afraid my littles will put their hands in their mouths and eat the alcohol before it can evaporate, so I bought this. The oils are in an aloe gel base, so it doesn't dry my skin out either. We use baby wipes and sanitizer, too when we go out, or sanitizing wipes.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by ViolaMum View Post
The oils are in an aloe gel base, so it doesn't dry my skin out either.
Maybe I should experiment with making aloe gel. We're overrun with aloe plants. I wonder how one would go about that.
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Codi View Post
Mine is similar to this, but I dont think it has Echinacea in it.

http://www.eoproducts.com/Products/S...AY-prd-33.aspx
That product also shows other "flavors" - peppermint and eucalyptus. I use them at home but never thought about them in a carry-n-go product!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Calidad View Post
Maybe I should experiment with making aloe gel.
Exactly what I was thinking! I'm thinking a base of alcohol with aloe for softening (pure aloe is sticky), and generous amounts of lavendar, peppermint and eucalyptus/tto.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:23 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

I am anti-hand sanitizer because it kills the good germs with the bad germs..plus it is not anti-viral, so what good is it IMO

I make our own with EOs that are both anti-viral, bacterial and anti-septic. With a vinegar, peroxide base it has more disinfecting power than bleach.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoismommy View Post
Any information (links, and not to someone quacky or too crunchy) to refute that?
Quote:
Alcohol doesn't cut through grime well, so dirt, blood, feces or other body fluids or soil must be wiped or washed away first, if the alcohol in the sanitizer is to be effective. In such cases, hand washing with soap and water is advised.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/21/he...cons.html?_r=1 This is a pro-hand sanitizer link. Which I find rather amusing, since why would you want to use h/s unless there was dirt, blood, feces, or body fluids involved?

Quote:
In a review of the research, Barbara Almanza, an associate professor at Purdue University who teaches safe sanitation practices to workers, came to an interesting conclusion. She notes that the research shows that hand sanitizers do not significantly reduce the number of bacteria on the hand and in some cases may potentially increase the amount of bacteria on the hand.
and

Quote:
Interestingly enough, the Food and Drug Administration, in regards to regulations concerning proper procedures for food services, recommends that hand sanitizers not be used in place of soap and water but only as an adjunct.

Likewise, Almanza recommends that to properly sanitize the hands, soap and water should be used. A hand sanitizer can not and should not take the place of proper cleansing procedures with soap and water.
both from http://biology.about.com/od/microbio...sanitizers.htm

This is regarding anti-bac soap as long as we're on the topic of hand washing:
Quote:
Keep in mind that antibacterial soap is no more effective at killing germs than is regular soap. Using antibacterial soap may even lead to the development of bacteria that are resistant to the product's antimicrobial agents making it harder to kill these germs in the future.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hand-washing/HQ00407

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

As far as what we do when soap and water is not available, we wait until we get to a sink. This is has been what we have done forever and my kids have never needed antibiotics or a prescription of any kind, ever. Even when my dh was immunocompromised, we didn't buy hand sanitizer or anti-bac soap. I researched it thoroughly at the time. Before I flushed his PIC line I washed my hands for 2 minutes w/ hot soapy water.

If you are exposed to the flu, it will likely be aerosol, from a sneeze or cough, not necessarily from hand touching. I don't see being overly zealous about sanitizing hands *in normal activities* as a way to prevent the flu. If I was a healthcare worker and around sick people alot, I would wash my hands more often, not use h/s. We wash our hands thoroughly whenever we get home and before we eat. I wash my hands after changing diapers. If I'm out, I use a baby wipe to wipe my hands off.
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Old 11-06-2009, 04:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by IpsyBipsy*Mum View Post
I am anti-hand sanitizer because it kills the good germs with the bad germs..plus it is not anti-viral, so what good is it IMO

I make our own with EOs that are both anti-viral, bacterial and anti-septic. With a vinegar, peroxide base it has more disinfecting power than bleach.
I also do not like to use it for this same reason. But I WILL use the spray I linked to above when I absolutely need to. Like, when dh has been running his hands up and down the rails at the mall before we get in the car.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by PurpleButterfly View Post
I am always surprised how many people don't take advantage of the store bathroom sinks for this before leaving or eating (like at the bookstore cafe, mall, etc.). I don't know a child who doesn't touch some part of their face once buckled in on the drive home.
I'll explain why we don't do this.

If someone has to use the toilet we obviously use the sink and soap provided and wash hands.

If we have just been in the store, museum, etc. and have not used the toilet we do not wash our hands until we get home.

We have made extraordinary efforts to reduce our exposure to chemicals because of our personal experiences. My dh almost died from an autoimmune disease that is almost always caused by chemical exposure. I am NOT saying that washing your hands w/ conventional, chemical-laden soaps will give you PNH or aplastic anemia but that our philosophy of health does not include avoiding as many "germs" as possible at the expense of exposing ourselves to chemicals. The soaps in the stores have parabens, synthetic fragrances, synthetic dyes, and are generally a whole cocktail of things that I do not want near my body. When I do have to wash my hands in public I simply cannot wait to get home and scrub that awful "fragrance" off myself!

If I had to choose between a few more acute illnesses per year like colds or flu versus exposing my family to chemicals on a regular basis that, over time, will lead to chronic illness, I choose the acute illnesses. As it turns out, it's been a win-win for both.

As soon as I found out I was pregnant w/ my first, I threw out all the anti-bac soaps in our house. As she got older, I replaced all my "disinfecting" cleaning supplies w/ more natural versions. Our diets have changed drastically. Nothing in our house has synthetic fragrances or colors. We have been sick LESS often because, we believe, our bodies are not taxed w/ trying to constantly detoxify from chemicals at the same time it is fighting off pathogens.

My kids get 1-2 colds per year and typically get one fever per year. They've never needed an Rx for anything or even a doctor visit for an acute illness (when Gracie was little I did take her a few times just to be told what I already knew--rest and fluids. Oh and one time I took her in for croup but never filled the Rx's and treated her myself. She was completely better in 24 hours.) Dh and I rarely get sick even though I'm in close intimate contact w/ my kids when they're sick.

I don't disinfect my home, I clean it to remove dirt and oils where "germs" can cling. We don't wear shoes in the house either because that just seems like kicking myself to make it harder to clean.

We believe our immune systems were designed to fight off pathogens and that we NEED exposure to pathogens so that the immune system can do it's job. My dh's white cell counts are still not in the normal range but he's not on any restrictions and he even rarely get sick. Master Tonic and vit d seem to support his system enough so that even w/ diminished white cell count his body is doing it's job.

Based on my dh's experience, I think he would throw a fit if he saw me using all those soaps in the stores.

Anyway, I'm not selling anything and I do understand there's another perspective but wanted to share ours.
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:31 AM   #38
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

When soap and water are not available I use alcohol based sanitizer wipes. But I will still wash as soon as soap and water are available even after using sanitizer.
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaM View Post
I'll explain why we don't do this.

If someone has to use the toilet we obviously use the sink and soap provided and wash hands.

If we have just been in the store, museum, etc. and have not used the toilet we do not wash our hands until we get home.

We have made extraordinary efforts to reduce our exposure to chemicals because of our personal experiences. My dh almost died from an autoimmune disease that is almost always caused by chemical exposure. I am NOT saying that washing your hands w/ conventional, chemical-laden soaps will give you PNH or aplastic anemia but that our philosophy of health does not include avoiding as many "germs" as possible at the expense of exposing ourselves to chemicals. The soaps in the stores have parabens, synthetic fragrances, synthetic dyes, and are generally a whole cocktail of things that I do not want near my body. When I do have to wash my hands in public I simply cannot wait to get home and scrub that awful "fragrance" off myself!

If I had to choose between a few more acute illnesses per year like colds or flu versus exposing my family to chemicals on a regular basis that, over time, will lead to chronic illness, I choose the acute illnesses. As it turns out, it's been a win-win for both.

As soon as I found out I was pregnant w/ my first, I threw out all the anti-bac soaps in our house. As she got older, I replaced all my "disinfecting" cleaning supplies w/ more natural versions. Our diets have changed drastically. Nothing in our house has synthetic fragrances or colors. We have been sick LESS often because, we believe, our bodies are not taxed w/ trying to constantly detoxify from chemicals at the same time it is fighting off pathogens.

My kids get 1-2 colds per year and typically get one fever per year. They've never needed an Rx for anything or even a doctor visit for an acute illness (when Gracie was little I did take her a few times just to be told what I already knew--rest and fluids. Oh and one time I took her in for croup but never filled the Rx's and treated her myself. She was completely better in 24 hours.) Dh and I rarely get sick even though I'm in close intimate contact w/ my kids when they're sick.

I don't disinfect my home, I clean it to remove dirt and oils where "germs" can cling. We don't wear shoes in the house either because that just seems like kicking myself to make it harder to clean.

We believe our immune systems were designed to fight off pathogens and that we NEED exposure to pathogens so that the immune system can do it's job. My dh's white cell counts are still not in the normal range but he's not on any restrictions and he even rarely get sick. Master Tonic and vit d seem to support his system enough so that even w/ diminished white cell count his body is doing it's job.

Based on my dh's experience, I think he would throw a fit if he saw me using all those soaps in the stores.

Anyway, I'm not selling anything and I do understand there's another perspective but wanted to share ours.
lisa, i would to hear more about how you transitioned to the no chemicals/fragrances/colors. also about how you clean your house vs. disinfect it.

i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out. but my dd is rarely sick and has only been on one antibiotic in her life. i recently bought some hand sanitizer only b/c all the swine flu stuff made me paranoid, but i guess i'll toss it now.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:29 PM   #40
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by hopeforchange View Post
i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out. but my dd is rarely sick and has only been on one antibiotic in her life.
We are so rarely sick and with 6 dc, I think in the last 10 years, we have had antibiotics in our house *maybe* 3 times? So I am not nearly as vigilant as I should be about germs, but still take hand-washing and such seriously. I am just not as avid about it as I should be.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by hopeforchange View Post
i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out.
sounds like me
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

Interesting thread. Dh was just asking me the other day if I thought he should carry some hand sanitizer in his car for when he's out and about shaking a ton of hands at all these meetings he's going to.

I'm not particularly germ phobic either (dh, on the other hand..). I still remember sitting in class at vet school, talking about autoimmune diseases. The professor mentioned our country's obsession with cleanliness, and how if we disinfect everything so much that our immune system has no external things to fight, it kind of goes nuts and turns on our own bodies, for lack of anything else to do. So, a certain degree of dirt etc. is not a big deal to me. There are many, many times when the kids have come in from playing outside and don't wash their hands before eating

I do try to be more cautious when we're out and about. I think the posting about proper handwashing is great. When we scrubbed prior to surgery, it was a 5 minute ordeal. Obviously you don't need that at home, but it does need to be more thorough than most people perform. I know people who teach their kids to sing the ABC song or whatever to help them know how long to scrub for. And, at least in public restrooms, turning off the faucet with a paper towel is key - otherwise you're just contaminating your hand with the germs you left on it when you turned it on.

What I'm not sure about is how this translates to hand washing at home. Do you all use paper towels at home, or cloth hand towels? If you use cloth towels, how often do you change them out?
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:06 AM   #43
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

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Originally Posted by joyfulheart View Post

What I'm not sure about is how this translates to hand washing at home. Do you all use paper towels at home, or cloth hand towels? If you use cloth towels, how often do you change them out?
i wonder this too...aren't cloth towels really germy? i mean, we use them, but i always cringe and wonder if we should be using paper towels.
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

We use paper towels...
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by hopeforchange View Post
lisa, i would to hear more about how you transitioned to the no chemicals/fragrances/colors. also about how you clean your house vs. disinfect it.

i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out. but my dd is rarely sick and has only been on one antibiotic in her life. i recently bought some hand sanitizer only b/c all the swine flu stuff made me paranoid, but i guess i'll toss it now.
No biggie, really. I don't shop at a supermarket. We use Charlie's Soap for laundry. The only cleaner I buy is Bon Ami cleanser for the kitchen sink. I make my own cleaners for everything else out of vinegar, water, and natural dish soap. 7th Gen for the dishwasher. We don't have carpet so I sweep as needed (the kitchen needs it 3x a day!) and I have a Shark steam mop that uses only water for the floors. So everything gets cleaned and, essentially, that rinses/wipes all the "germs" away because all the surface dirt, oil, etc is gone so there's nothing for them to cling to but I do not use chemical disinfectants.

I take hand washing pretty seriously--always after the toilet, when we get home, and before eating or preparing food. But I will not use chemical disinfectants on my body, either, and if we're in a park or something we just eat.

I used to be kind of a germ-a-phobe and that started to change after reading The Maker's Diet. It wa very liberating! I used to get anxiety in hotel rooms, etc. Especially after my dh having practically no immune system and him blowing away his doctors with how he stayed infection-free during that time, it really sealed it for me--the chemical disinfectants are not worth it for us, we see them as doing more harm than good.
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