ETLDTD Week 2, day 1 - July 7, 2008

[tempus vernum]

Week 2

Attitude shift - harnessing the power of Attention
Reason: what you focus on, you get more of
Discipline skill - assertiveness
Value respect

Read p 260 to 262 -- pay attention to your communication with your chidren so we can do the activity on p 261

Thoughts on this week?
feedback from last week or the weekend?


EDITED TO ADD Set goals or review last weeks goals if they are the same

[Living My Dream]

loved last week.

looking forward to focussng on what i want

[MamaMansa]

Will come back to this, subbing for now.

[Radosny Matka]

ugh. this week is not starting off well. N hit P hard in the arm - hard enough to leave a big red mark. I lost it. I am tired of N hitting P. He is seven - SEVEN. He HAS other skills to use. We have been over this a million times. He hits his brother daily, several times. I'm done, done. I put him upstairs so I could cool off, and then told him that every time he hit his brother, he looses a quarter out of the $2 we give him each week as an allowance for doing his handwriting and stretches, and if he runs out of quarters, he starts paying us from his exisiting money. We in turn give these quarters to P.

I think this will be a great week, and that I need to start focusing way more on the kids being nice to eachother - and start complimenting them when they are getting along well.

Last week was great, I hate starting the week off so poorly. And, if you have a better plan then the one I spelt out above, please feel free to share. Saying, "no hitting, hitting hurts. you may not hit your brother. use your words, come get me for help" yada yada has been hashed out a bazillion times. At his age and ability, he HAS better ways to cope, and I think he needs some additional accountablity or consequences to help him remember. And, I'm still stuck on making amends. :/

[The Tickle Momster]

ok, I haven't read today's section yet. I do have some questions though about focusing on what I want. How does this work with an almost 7 y/o? Can I say "let's let momma take care of that" every time she starts taking over care of her sibs?

An example from this morning. She wouldn't let Camille out of bed b/c it was before 7AM. She had asked the other day what time she could come downstairs. 7AM seemed reasonable. I had motioned to Camille to come with me this morning so she wouldn't wake her sibs. She didn't follow right away but I figured she would in a minute so I started changing Toby's dipe. Next thing I know, she's crying and Adeline is holding her hand and won't let go. Not the way I wanted to start the morning. She's yelling at me that I said they can't leave until 7 and I told her I had told C to come with me.

RM, just saw your post. Insteaad of using his allowance, could you give both boys a baggie of, say 10 m&ms and use those instead of his allowance? Stick em o the fridge and at the end of the morning/day, they can eat them.

gotta go, kids. I could use prayers. It's not shaping up to be a good morning.

[Radosny Matka]

Originally Posted by mlrowley

ok, I haven't read today's section yet. I do have some questions though about focusing on what I want. How does this work with an almost 7 y/o? Can I say "let's let momma take care of that" every time she starts taking over care of her sibs?

An example from this morning. She wouldn't let Camille out of bed b/c it was before 7AM. She had asked the other day what time she could come downstairs. 7AM seemed reasonable. I had motioned to Camille to come with me this morning so she wouldn't wake her sibs. She didn't follow right away but I figured she would in a minute so I started changing Toby's dipe. Next thing I know, she's crying and Adeline is holding her hand and won't let go. Not the way I wanted to start the morning. She's yelling at me that I said they can't leave until 7 and I told her I had told C to come with me.

RM, just saw your post. Insteaad of using his allowance, could you give both boys a baggie of, say 10 m&ms and use those instead of his allowance? Stick em o the fridge and at the end of the morning/day, they can eat them.

gotta go, kids. I could use prayers. It's not shaping up to be a good morning.

I really like that M&M idea - I think I will try that, but with gummies instead. Thank you.

Sorry your morning started out rough. She sounds like a very literal girl. Perhaps mention that since she is the oldest, the rule applies to her and not the younger siblings? What is the age difference?

[tempus vernum]

Huge hugs - must be the long weekend that messed us all up We are struggling here too.

Luke really woke up on the wrong side of the bed and Alyssa told him so. So I suggested Luke start over. It really changed things and turned them around I think he just needs space to cool off but refuses to take it unless it's worded in a way that's understandable to him

AFA the M&M, money, etc, I had been doing "penalties" for this and it sounds similar except I wasn't giving the money to the hurt person, just taking it off their allowance. I decided it was punitive and rewards based. I felt I was at the end of my rope and didn't really care if there was an external motivator (penalty) involved in getting them to stop hitting. For me, helping them control themselfs means identifying "why" they are hitting and then using it specifically. Luke does this ALL the time (he's 6.5). He always hits for different reasons.

Today's reasons - he won't tell me I have to investigate
*I wanted more room (was kicking his sister)
*she hurt me (she bumped into his stomach getting off the bed this a.m.)

So, then I say "use words and say this . . . . . Try right now." it is frustrating and it is annoying but IMO if I am not stoping and figuring it out for myself they are never learning how to use their words. I think Luke needs me to give him the EXACT words each time or it doesn't seem to click. If i just say "use your words and get help" it gets no where :/ So I started finding out the reason and then having him repeat after me immediately for practice and then praise him. "You used words. Thank you so much. I really using words instead of our bodies to communicate"

That said, when a child is REALLY struggling I tomato stake them to me - in a gentle way -- I basically keep them within arms reach at all times and pay close attention to their body language so I can PREVENT the hitting, kicking, punching, etc.

Oh and we also use "you hit, you sit" and they must sit until they can control themselves.

The BIGGEST thing was to shift my mind into "conflict is an opportunity to teach" and keeping myself calm. If I can manage that (and I can't always), next step is comforting the injured person before figuring out the motivation behind the hitting.
First before I address the person doing the hurting "Oh, no. He hit you. Owie. Are you okay? That was very unkind. Luke should use words instead of his body. He's trying to tell you something and is doing it by hurting you. In our home, we do not hit people to communicate with them."

((((((((((((mlrowley)))))))))) WHen my eldest starts mothering I redirect by saying "you are trying to help mama. I really appreciate it. It would be very helpful if you could _________ and let the younger ones sleep in." And in a calm moment sit down and tell her how much you LOVE being her mama (maybe get out her baby book or talk about specific things you did together. Then lead into how you want to be a mama to all your children. WHen she wants to help, she can look for a chore to do or ask you how she can help." For my now 8yo, that stopped the mothering.

I am making it sound like it's all easy here and it's not or I wouldn't be redoing this study for the bazillionth time. I am so changing my perspective though and I am seeing it reflected in my children. I still lose it but stop much quicker. My kids still hit. I am just perceiving it all differently - praise God. I have lived like a volcano ready to errupt for way to long

For example, ALyssa just sprayed me with the hose (from outside) and I shouted "I am getting wet. Stop." Then I stopped and said "I'm sorry I shouldn't have yelled" and she said, "I'm sorry, I should have gotten permission to turn on the hose. I was trying to wash my hands." Next time ask me and then aim the hose away from the house

Praying that all of your days turn around

[swimming with sharks]

Originally Posted by SonshineMama

WHen my eldest starts mothering I redirect by saying "you are trying to help mama. I really appreciate it. It would be very helpful if you could _________ and let the younger ones sleep in." And in a calm moment sit down and tell her how much you LOVE being her mama (maybe get out her baby book or talk about specific things you did together. Then lead into how you want to be a mama to all your children. WHen she wants to help, she can look for a chore to do or ask you how she can help." For my now 8yo, that stopped the mothering.

That's awesome!!! I love it!! Thank you!! I'm here...you can check out these two posts http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=181142.0 and http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=181145.0 to see what got me posting to this thread instead of just reading along.

[Jenny]

subbing, will be back later

[MamaMansa]

For me, on the topic of punishments and rewards, I got a LOT out of page 187-189 in the book. I hadn't realized it, but I've been doing a lot of those things. What really stood out to me was on pg. 188, which basically said that when parents rely on punishments and rewards to express a "good" or "bad" judgement of a child, the child comes to depend on the judgement of others as basis for their own moral decisions.

That said, we had a bad afternoon yesterday. My 4-year-old spent a good 45 minutes melting down and I got really angry when she kicked me in the shin with her skates on. She hadn't intended to, but it was time to go inside, and she wouldn't go on her own, so I carried her in, thrashing about. (After saying, "You have two choices, you can walk on your own, or mommy will carry you.") I managed not to yell (other than, "OUCH, that hurt!") but it took me about 30 minutes of that meltdown to breathe deeply (as she is screaming and out of control on the floor) and become unfrozen enough to say, "You sound very dissapointed that you had to come inside." "Wouldn't it be great if we could just LIVE outside?" (playfully)......and she stopped her tantrum long enough to say "yeah." It got better from there, but I find that I just get SO stressed out during conflicts like those, and I don't always know how to handle it. I kind of kicked myself for not getting to that response faster, but was glad I was able to remain relatively calm, after quite a bit of deep breathing and "this moment is as it is."

My goal this week is to go back through what I've already read and find all of the great examples that she uses. I want to come up with some notecards of these "canned" responses, so I can spit them out quicker, LOL. I understand the concepts as I'm reading them, but always struggle with finding the right words. Hopefully memorizing will help me.

[tempus vernum]

Laura, can you share the notecards or at least page numbers if you do that - my printer prints notecards so I could print them for you if you preferred typing and then I can print some for myself

Off to read pp 187 to 189

Lula, I am very interseted in something you said - can't remember which thread but you said you don't agree with the book on a bunch of things and I'd love to hear about them now while we are doing the challenge IF you don't want to share here, we could have a spin off thread

[The Tickle Momster]

WHen my eldest starts mothering I redirect by saying "you are trying to help mama. I really appreciate it. It would be very helpful if you could _________ and let the younger ones sleep in." And in a calm moment sit down and tell her how much you LOVE being her mama (maybe get out her baby book or talk about specific things you did together. Then lead into how you want to be a mama to all your children. WHen she wants to help, she can look for a chore to do or ask you how she can help." For my now 8yo, that stopped the mothering.

This is exactly what I need!! I will be memorizing that response.

RM - she is in a VERY literal stage. I get absolutely no leeway w/her. Any tips?

Laura -- great save! Ihave such a hard time being ridiculous like that. I guess I'm literal too.

Goals this week:

1. Remember the moment is what it is.
2. Remember that what I focus on I get more of.

[MamaMansa]

Originally Posted by SonshineMama

Laura, can you share the notecards or at least page numbers if you do that - my printer prints notecards so I could print them for you if you preferred typing and then I can print some for myself

Off to read pp 187 to 189

Lula, I am very interseted in something you said - can't remember which thread but you said you don't agree with the book on a bunch of things and I'd love to hear about them now while we are doing the challenge IF you don't want to share here, we could have a spin off thread

Yes, I'd be happy to share them with you all. My computer prints notecards too, so I'll just email the file to whomever wants it. Hope to finish them this week.

[naturallia]

bbl

[peacefulveganmom]

Originally Posted by SonshineMama

So, then I say "use words and say this . . . . . Try right now." it is frustrating and it is annoying but IMO if I am not stoping and figuring it out for myself they are never learning how to use their words. I think Luke needs me to give him the EXACT words each time or it doesn't seem to click. If i just say "use your words and get help" it gets no where :/ So I started finding out the reason and then having him repeat after me immediately for practice and then praise him. "You used words. Thank you so much. I really using words instead of our bodies to communicate"

That said, when a child is REALLY struggling I tomato stake them to me - in a gentle way -- I basically keep them within arms reach at all times and pay close attention to their body language so I can PREVENT the hitting, kicking, punching, etc.

Oh and we also use "you hit, you sit" and they must sit until they can control themselves.

The BIGGEST thing was to shift my mind into "conflict is an opportunity to teach" and keeping myself calm. If I can manage that (and I can't always), next step is comforting the injured person before figuring out the motivation behind the hitting.
First before I address the person doing the hurting "Oh, no. He hit you. Owie. Are you okay? That was very unkind. Luke should use words instead of his body. He's trying to tell you something and is doing it by hurting you. In our home, we do not hit people to communicate with them."

Dh and I have started doing this as well, and believe it or not, it works *every* time. Annoying that we have to direct every conversation when conflict arises?? YES- but we have found that in times of stress, our kiddos just lose all sight of what they *should* do...it's like their brains go into fight or flight mode and shut the rest of the options out. So if continually guiding them (by giving them "scripts" in those moments and prompting them to say it *now* instead of next time) we can help them learn to resolve conflicts properly, I'm all for it, frustrating as it may be at times.