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Old 02-14-2008, 02:14 PM   #16
Mamaka
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

We virtual school and semantics-wise, it depends on my audience whether I correct the perception of homeschooling vs. virtual schooling

In our state the p.s. sponsored VA has elements of support for hs'ers. We don't have to follow the curriculum exactly. We don't have to take all the courses. We can opt out of state testing. We can be hs'ers choosing one element of the curriculum they offer. This year w/ds as a kindergartener we've done the whole curriculum. Next year, as a 2nd grader (mama brag warning he's already through K and into 1st grade stuff) we'll probably only do 2 subjects from the VA and only because I feel the curriculum is the strongest out there. But I know other VA's don't have that kind of freedom and it really depends on the state.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

I guess I am the one that caused this spin off because I said:
Quote:
they are different but both are homeschooling because you are teaching your child at home.
My difintion of homeschooling is: "Teaching your child at home." The VA parents are doing that so IMO they are homeschooling.
I understand where you are coming from because I do feel that the VAs take too much control and I personally do not like them and would *never* *ever* utilize them myself.

BUT I have compassion on those that use them. The people I know that use them feel that they give them more freedom than ps would. They can teach their child Bible and can give their opinions on the topics that they are teaching. They can say, "We don't believe that because...." They would have never been able to do that if their child was off at PS with another teacher teaching them.

The people I know IRL that use them are very alone. The PS hate them because they are using the tax $$ that the public schools want put towards their schools and the homeschoolers "hate" them because the feel that they will cause them to loose their freedoms. These families need support and they really don't get any support. They are very, very, very alone. That is where my post on the other thread was coming from.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueQ
I guess I am the one that caused this spin off because I said:
Quote:
they are different but both are homeschooling because you are teaching your child at home.
The people I know IRL that use them are very alone. The PS hate them because they are using the tax $$ that the public schools want put towards their schools and the homeschoolers "hate" them because the feel that they will cause them to loose their freedoms. These families need support and they really don't get any support. They are very, very, very alone. That is where my post on the other thread was coming from.
Absolutely....it was very lonely feeling and not a fun place to be in the middle of.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

I was thinking our terms are poor. There are a lot more situations out there than the terms can cover. In generalities, I'd say there is child-led-learning, parent-led-learning, and institutionally-led-learning. And those can happen at home or in a building somewhere or in someone's house in a big group or whatever.

I think for the purposes of the forums here, anyone who is educating their child(ren) under their own roof or in a group of other parents educating their kids under rotating roofs, that's homeschooling. It comes with the same set of power struggles, housework/life/money/littler kids/social issues/time, etc for all educational types. We are here (IMO) to talk curriculum and such to some extent, but more to figure out how to be with our kids 24/7 in a culture that sees that as anything from less than ideal to fully damaging and destructive. To find successful ways to navigate a day with a kid you are tired of and don't particularly enjoy today. To biuld full, well-rounded healthy lives with our kids of all ages and stages. I think that definitely encompasses a VA mom every bit as much as a HSing curriculum mom and even us wildcard unschoolers.

For the purposes of talking to the rest of the world, safeguarding freedoms, etc, we need better terminology. :/
 
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chibi*Mum
I am not trying to be snarky...and I am not mad..but I honestly was up until 2am this morning dwelling on this statement and trying to assign positive intent. I KNOW you are not trying to be hurtful or venomous and I know that it is more of an irritation of how the government is working to chip away at all the rights that HSers have worked to gain. I just know that if I find hurt in these words, being a mom that is now anti-VSing...then how must the mom who is still VSing or preparing to VS feeling


thank you for trying to assign positive intent because I did not mean to hurt you or anyone.

I could hear the hurt and pain in your post and it just makes me angry that the requirements the public schools impose are such that make moms lose their confidence in their ability to teach their own child. You are their mother. Of course, you can teach your own child. You have been doing it all along. You do not need a degree in order to do that. You are their teacher.

As Crystal said in the other thread (after this one was started), this IS why the public schools have did this. Sadly when people are deciding to home school or not, they will call their local school or state for information. That is the last place you should be calling. They are not going to tell you the laws of home schooling because odds are they do not even know. It is HARD to find the information needed. I remember. I never heard of HSLDA. I didn't have the internet yet. I felt like a fish out of water trying to learn about something that no one seemed to know anything about. The only home schooling family I knew used BJU and I did not want to use that. I remember asking her who I had to contact to get "permission" to teach my kids.

I finally learned of a group from my local library. Then I went to so many meetings. I learned from veteran home schooling families who were passing the torch so to speak. I always thought, kids turn five, I need to register them. Off they go. I never knew I could keep them at home. This is a freedom that the government is trying to change over time by calling it the same name that home schoolers who did it on their own have been using for over 30 years in our countries current history. Ok. Current. History. I just made myself laugh.

I hope that I am making more sense about this. Hearing these families talk about how superintendants used to make their lives awful, just awful is why I want to make sure that more people understand the distinction.

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Old 02-14-2008, 03:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Mom
Hearing these families talk about how superintendants used to make their lives awful, just awful is why I want to make sure that more people understand the distinction.
I understand what you're saying - I would hate for a mom to have a bad experience with a virtual school and think, "This is homeschooling? This sure isn't what it's cracked up to be!" Homeschooling can be so much more.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Mom
Hearing these families talk about how superintendants used to make their lives awful, just awful is why I want to make sure that more people understand the distinction.
I understand what you're saying - I would hate for a mom to have a bad experience with a virtual school and think, "This is homeschooling? This sure isn't what it's cracked up to be!" Homeschooling can be so much more.
And . . . "I *can't* do it without their help--this is too hard."

Add in the family who assumes it *should* be VA and you must be a renegade.

Or the well meaning neighbor who asks how the children did on their tests and then is :/ that you don't have oversight.

The potential complications are many.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home



Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Mom
I could hear the hurt and pain in your post and it just makes me angry that the requirements the public schools impose are such that make moms lose their confidence in their ability to teach their own child. You are their mother. Of course, you can teach your own child. You have been doing it all along. You do not need a degree in order to do that. You are their teacher.
I think, though, that you're making a dangerous assumption (or at least communicating an assumption) that all or most VA families are choosing to virtual school because of lack of confidence or lack of education about hsing or because they don't realize what their choices are or think hsing is too hard. Our family is making an educated choice to VS at this time in our lives; many of the other VS families that I've met are also making similar educated choices. Some are not, but for the most part our experience has shown that VS families do their homework about their schooling options.

Like Michelle said earlier, being a vs'er can be a tough choice to make because hs'ers tend to look down on you and you don't fit in w/ps'ers. I missed the other thread about this, but can see where vs families might feel hurt about the tone expressed here, it's like we're less because we vs. I'm guessing that's not what you're meaning to communicate but I can see where it might feel that way.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Many people have felt the same about charters. I am blessed *for now* to be in a charter that is rather free in what curriculum I choose an how I choose to teach it. Yet I struggle and pray about the decision to stay in and for how long. EventuallyI want to be totaly independant, but until that time I very much think that I do, infact, homeschool. (I understand virtual schools a lot have more control though.) But I am aware of the freedoms I gave up.


My reasons for this choice are varied, but are based on money, the need for someone else to keep my ADD self structured, compromise with dh, and other things. Deep down I much prefer the idea of independent HS - I am also easily "hated" by homeschoolers and public schoolers alike. I have to let it go, though; technically NO ONE in my state homeschools. You are either in a public or private school. All that varies is how large that private school is and what is done through that school.

However as much as I am not a fan of the PS system, I do not buy in completely to the conspiacy about the virtuals and charters. I am not convinced that they are attempting to chip away at rights we have by having virtual or charter schools, what *I* see is them wanting a peice of the pie and HS is popular. Yes, so they get people to do a virtual or charter who otherwise might have "gone it alone." (And that is very unfortunate. I keep praying for some sort of voucher that would allow low income people to HS without too many strings.) But I see that as different than eroding a parent's right to HSing in the true sense.

edited for grammer and clarifaction of a few garbled sentences.

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Old 02-14-2008, 05:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Here's the thing...I believe that ALL forms of alternative education (not public/private brick and mortar schooling) should be available and encouraged. Each one meets a set of needs and combined they provide a rich set of opportunities to educate our children in the way we deem best. The problem I (and possibly others here) have with calling all schooling that takes place in the home "homeschooling" is that it blurs the distinctions and puts those of us who are opposed to government controlled schooling at risk of seeing the freedoms that the pioneers of this movement worked so hard for eroded away. HSLDA...for all the good things they do...are too in bed with the ideals of the NEA to suit me. I think it is telling of the blurring that Mike Huckabee can be endorsed simultaneously by both groups. When I say the VA's are not homeschooling it is because it is CRITICAL to maintaining my freedoms as a homeschooler to be distinct about what each type of alternative education actually IS and is not. As a homeschooler I am saying that my child's education is 100% MY concern and responsibility. I do not accept the government's assertion that because my child is some arbitrary age I must now turn their education over to the state in any way shape form or fashion. I don't cast stones at those who choose to use VA's I think that for some they can be a wonderful educational choice but they are NOT homeschooling. They're just not. Any time you have to be accountable to another entity regarding the content or method you are using alternative schooling, sometimes in the home sometimes not...sometimes part time in the home and part time not. The program I teach in says that "we're still homeschooling"...No...we're not...we make the assignments, we assign the grades and we send home a grade report to the parents. That's not homeschooling, even if they are at home 3 days out of the week. Its a wonderful alternative program to public schooling but it is, in reality, an alternative private school. Its not "less than" homeschooling...but it IS different.
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Old 02-14-2008, 05:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teribear
Here's the thing...I believe that ALL forms of alternative education (not public/private brick and mortar schooling) should be available and encouraged. Each one meets a set of needs and combined they provide a rich set of opportunities to educate our children in the way we deem best. The problem I (and possibly others here) have with calling all schooling that takes place in the home "homeschooling" is that it blurs the distinctions and puts those of us who are opposed to government controlled schooling at risk of seeing the freedoms that the pioneers of this movement worked so hard for eroded away. HSLDA...for all the good things they do...are too in bed with the ideals of the NEA to suit me. I think it is telling of the blurring that Mike Huckabee can be endorsed simultaneously by both groups. When I say the VA's are not homeschooling it is because it is CRITICAL to maintaining my freedoms as a homeschooler to be distinct about what each type of alternative education actually IS and is not. As a homeschooler I am saying that my child's education is 100% MY concern and responsibility. I do not accept the government's assertion that because my child is some arbitrary age I must now turn their education over to the state in any way shape form or fashion. I don't cast stones at those who choose to use VA's I think that for some they can be a wonderful educational choice but they are NOT homeschooling. They're just not. Any time you have to be accountable to another entity regarding the content or method you are using alternative schooling, sometimes in the home sometimes not...sometimes part time in the home and part time not. The program I teach in says that "we're still homeschooling"...No...we're not...we make the assignments, we assign the grades and we send home a grade report to the parents. That's not homeschooling, even if they are at home 3 days out of the week. Its a wonderful alternative program to public schooling but it is, in reality, an alternative private school. Its not "less than" homeschooling...but it IS different.
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Old 02-14-2008, 05:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
I believe that ALL forms of alternative education (not public/private brick and mortar schooling) should be available and encouraged. Each one meets a set of needs and combined they provide a rich set of opportunities to educate our children in the way we deem best. The problem I (and possibly others here) have with calling all schooling that takes place in the home "homeschooling" is that it blurs the distinctions and puts those of us who are opposed to government controlled schooling at risk of seeing the freedoms that the pioneers of this movement worked so hard for eroded away. HSLDA...for all the good things they do...are too in bed with the ideals of the NEA to suit me. I think it is telling of the blurring that Mike Huckabee can be endorsed simultaneously by both groups. When I say the VA's are not homeschooling it is because it is CRITICAL to maintaining my freedoms as a homeschooler to be distinct about what each type of alternative education actually IS and is not. As a homeschooler I am saying that my child's education is 100% MY concern and responsibility. I do not accept the government's assertion that because my child is some arbitrary age I must now turn their education over to the state in any way shape form or fashion. I don't cast stones at those who choose to use VA's I think that for some they can be a wonderful educational choice but they are NOT homeschooling.
That.

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Old 02-14-2008, 05:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
I do not accept the government's assertion that because my child is some arbitrary age I must now turn their education over to the state in any way shape form or fashion.
I understand that and esentially agree.

Still, in many states you have to report to the govt in some fashion or other. Are parents in those states not truly homeschooling?

My biggest concern is when those who use "alternative school" are looked down upon or not included in HS circles as a result of how one labels it. There is a mom at my congregation who was open and friendlyto me when I talked about HSing my child. And she doesn't doesnt seem to mind those in private or public. But when she found out I was in a charter she pretty much turned on me And some groups seriously wont let you in. I am not talking about th HSLDA and its legal protection, I get THAT. I mean meetings and clubs where I am excluded from getting valuable advice and fellowship simply because of where my curriculum comes from.

That is why I hate making such distictions. I wish instead we would just use words like "idenpendent HSing" "HS through a VA" or whatever. That way the difference is noted, but it does not become a way to wage war against each other.
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Old 02-14-2008, 05:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Heather, I think it's hateful when people who made a prayerful and educated choice for the overall best interests of their family become the recipients of the strong feelings people have about movements or institutions We've warmly welcomed people into our homeschool coop who do VA. Their children are home, they need socializing opportunities, and they support "pulling out"of the public school *system*. Great

I think this is one of those areas where theory may never see eye to eye but we have to live together as sisters in the Lord and I will never tell any of you that you are "less than" for making a different educational choice. I hope no one hears that in my thoughts about the motivation and concerns I see with VA's being offered.

I agree with several who have indicated we just don't have an adequate vocabulary for it all
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Old 02-14-2008, 05:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: Spin off: Home school vs. public school at home

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
Heather, I think it's hateful when people who made a prayerful and educated choice for the overall best interests of their family become the recipients of the strong feelings people have about movements or institutions We've warmly welcomed people into our homeschool coop who do VA. Their children are home, they need socializing opportunities, and they support "pulling out"of the public school *system*. Great

I think this is one of those areas where theory may never see eye to eye but we have to live together as sisters in the Lord and I will never tell any of you that you are "less than" for making a different educational choice. I hope no one hears that in my thoughts about the motivation and concerns I see with VA's being offered.

I agree with several who have indicated we just don't have an adequate vocabulary for it all
I have never felt the judement against *me* here. Not even on this particular thread. We all have strong opinons on what we think is best. And I am one of the odballs schooling against my ideal theory because of other ideals I have (family unity, etc.)

It is a very sad and loney place to be when somehow a parent judges me as if I am singlehandendly going to make someone come and confiscate their chilren for HS - or worse that I am immoral and outside God's will for what I do. And on a lesser scale it hurts to be excluded because I dont "really" HS - focusing on the differences rather than the similarites.

So I guess all that is to say that I agree. We need to define 100% parent led HS (As much as is allowed by the sate) in a way that is distinct from other parents who school from home in some degree. I even understanding wanting a place to feel safe in the uniquness of the 100% HSing option. But when those words become a way to judge and exclude, I have a big problem with that. Why cant the HS group down the street be the way GCM is on issues - "you dont have to agree, but understand that the postion of this group is that HS independently is the ideal and we have strong feelings against govt involovement, you are free to join as long as you are not trying to undermine that belief."
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