Gentle Christian Mothers Community
 
Random Quotes from Wise Mamas

~* Please help keep GCM free by using our
Amazon.com affiliate link. Thank you! *~


Go Back   Gentle Christian Mothers Community > Specific Issues > Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public*
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
A public forum.
Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:

23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2005, 08:11 PM   #1
moosemama
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default what made you change?

Here's a two part question. First... For those of you who used to use other-than-gentle discipline, what opened your eyes? Did you happen across information about GBD/GD or against Ezzo/Pearl/etc. methods? Did a friend or family member say something to you, or in some other way introduce you to alternatives? Were you unhappy with your methods and went seeking other options?

Second part of my question: have you ever been the one to open someone's eyes to better ways of disciplining and treating their child/ren? Did you do it deliberately or did it happen inadvertantly? If deliberately, how did you go about it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 08:42 PM   #2
Peepsqueak
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 63
Peepsqueak is on a distinguished road
Default Re: what made you change?

I was experimenting in a way and trying to learn old fashioned upbringing. Unfortunately I was exhausted from this type of discipline, because it was not effective. Reward/punishment was just manipulative, and hard to keep thinking of new ways to encourage the children. Also, spanking was always making me the "bad guy" and using scare tactics never appealed to me. I did not do any Ezzo work, because I was an AP mom in their infancy. However, during toddlerhood, it was tricky motivating them to "behave"

Anyway, I always thought of using the more progressive ways of childrearing and it was considered sort of new agey by Christians.....however, there is a big difference in discipline methods.

I never spoke to others about how they should raise their children...however, I do find that harsh discipline is unpleasant around me, so I hope never to run across it with other parents. Often in some churches though there are the old fashioned parents who will pop a kid right there in church.....oh well....

I am still tempted to spank my children for intentional disobedience...however, I really try to use alternatives.
Peepsqueak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 09:42 PM   #3
UltraMother
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,023
UltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond reputeUltraMother has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: what made you change?

I did ap from the start when they were babies, but I moved into the traditional approach when they became toddlers. Little things clued me in, here and there (like seeing different families who spanked for EVERYTHING and my dad wanting to swat MY baby's exploring hands), but I totally bought into the idea that spanking=Christian, even though my heart kept telling me the truth. I only saw the two extremes of punitive/permissive. I also read a few Pearl books, and even though I did not practice his methods fully, his way of thinking stuck in my brain. I had a very hard time reconciling what I felt and what I thought. I can't remember how I found the original GCM site, but it was so validating to read these messages, and realize that I could follow what my heart was telling me and still be a loving Christian parent who was confidently in charge of my children.
__________________

Babies-they just grow on you.
UltraMother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 10:17 PM   #4
MarynMunchkins
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 38,255
MarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond reputeMarynMunchkins has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: what made you change?

Well, I'm a Baptist in the South. Spanking = Godly here. I had Babywise given to me at my baby shower for Doug, and my own mother gave me TTUAC. While I started off a fairly natural parent, I was very punitive.

Some of my conversion occured because my kids are hn. Schedule and strict order simply doesn't work with those type of children, and I made myself and them miserable trying to make it all work. I tended to relax a little more and not make an issue of things because they reacted so violently to them.

Some of my conversion came from arguing on a message board. I actually spent time online because I was alone with 2 hn kids, and I desperately needed something to keep myself sane. So I argued for spanking, and had a bunch of wonderful people try to convince me that I was wrong.

The straw that broke the camel's back was my parent's treatment of me and my children, and realizing how their style of parenting had made me miserable. I didn't want that for my kids. Finding GCM gave me some concrete ideas about how to stop spanking and what to do instead.

I'll type more later...my dh and I are going to enjoy the quiet.
MarynMunchkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005, 06:30 AM   #5
mom2_AthruZ
Deactivated
 
formerly readingmama
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: just this side of crazy. ;)
Posts: 2,960
mom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of lightmom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of lightmom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of lightmom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of lightmom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of lightmom2_AthruZ is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: what made you change?

We were punitive from the beginning. Dobson when they were young, and then we were introduced to the Pearls but that didn't last long. However the spanking did. Looking back I can see where God began to plant the seeds that led us to GBD. The nursery directors gentle approach at our old church,a mom of many online that chatted with me for hours and answered endless questions and then searching for articles on GBD I found GCM. My search also came out of a need/desire to find something other than spanking because I was seeing myself leaning waaaay too close to the abusive side. So, I praise God for leading me here.

As for sharing with others, I would say I have shared with my sister but carefully. i am finding that I need to take back advice I had given her a few years ago. Plus we are from the south and like bananabug said in most arenas spanking=Godly. I don't live there anymore but my sis does. So, I share when she asks and at times when she doesn't, but always carefully.
mom2_AthruZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005, 09:50 AM   #6
Katherine
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: what made you change?

I grew up in a "saturated" Christian environment where spanking=obedience to God and NOT spanking=heresy, rebellion, and dooming your children to death and hell. It was the only think I knew, and dh grew up in a secular spanking home, so we intended to spank from the beginning. I had already read Dobson's books, and someone gave me TTUAC when ds was 6 mos old.

Thank the Lord that I read Dr. Sears AP books during my pg. I was pretty natural and very attached with my first son, and I truly believe that bond paved the way for me to question the harsh methods I was using.

Quote:
My search also came out of a need/desire to find something other than spanking because I was seeing myself leaning waaaay too close to the abusive side.
This is true of me, too. My son is incredibly intense and very, VERY persistent. No matter how often or consistently or "correctly" we spanked him, his behavior would escalate and he would FIGHT BACK harder and harder. The fury and pain and fear was so evident in his eyes and manner. He also had eczema and very sensitive skin. You can't swat a child like that repeatedly without causing damage. His skin would break out where I spanked him--even if it was only one or two swats.. and I was supposed to keep swatting him there? AGAIN AND AGAIN? HOW many times?! He was NOT the type of child to comply in response to pain or threatening.. I didn't know what to do. This could NOT be right... and even if it WAS right, I didn't care. It wasn't working.. it was causing obvious physical and emotional damage... it was ripping our family apart (I was almost full term with my 2nd pg when things really reached a breaking point) It felt so horrible and so wrong. So, even though part of me still believed I was disobeying God's Word, I began to back off from spanking, search for other answers. We found Crystal through a PBS program, and after digesting some of her website I stumbled across GCM.

When I first began questioning, I shared my concerns and thoughts with my sister. She believed in spanking just as strongly as I did. I didn't know if her response would be judgement or understanding, but she was the SAME child as my ds... intense, emotional, determined, outspoken, and NON-compliant. She was constantly and harshly disciplined at school her whole life, frequently spanked and punished at home, and stereo-typed by everyone in our community as the rebellious girl with the "bad attitude." Just the word "attitude" still raises the hair on the back of her neck. She was and still is the only IRL person (other than dh... who is not really consistent about it) who supports my decision not to spank. I have shared some with my parents out of necessity, and a tiny bit with my in-laws. Obviously, they both disagree with my decision and there has been some tension and hurt feelings, but the relationships remained intact.

I think/hope that if my sis ever has kids, she will elect not to spank... so I guess maybe that's one person who has been positively influenced by our experience.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005, 08:43 PM   #7
moosemama
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: what made you change?

Many thanks to those who've responded so far. The reason I asked is that there is someone in my life who is very close to me and whose children I adore who I would love to influence. She spanks and uses other punitive methods of discipline, and often (I feel) fails to treat them with respect. I desperately want to see her change to a more positive outlook, but I want to be gentle and careful in approaching the situation. They are a Christian family and have used a book (author Shepard I think?? it's not one I've heard mentioned here before) which justifies spanking with the usual scripture passages. Of course every person is different, but through your responses, I'm hoping to gain a perspective on where she might be coming from and how best to gently communicate new ideas to her.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2005, 11:41 PM   #8
tui_song
Guest
 
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: what made you change?

I grew up in a family that spanked and always intended to do the same. I guess it was Dobson-style discipline. I started spanking my daughter and found that it brought out a side of my personality that I really detest. I was very angry and controlling. Also it didn't work. She kept doing the same things even if she was smacked for it. However she was starting to fear me and our relationship was being harmed. It is so awful to think about it now. I spent a lot of time praying and crying when she had gone to bed at night, wondering where I had gone wrong. I read Dobson's book and tried to go exactly as he taught, but it didn't help. Then I found GCM (I was interested in elimination communication!) and learnt about GBD, and slowly I am changing and learning a new way of parenting. My in-laws disagree with spanking but they didn't say anything to me about it (I don't think they realised that I was spanking my dd). My father agreed with it. I don't think my mother did, but she is extremely non-confrontational so didn't try to convince me otherwise.

I have talked to one of my friends who has a son who will be a year old this month about GBD. She had read Babywise and followed it when her son was little (he was bottle-fed), but was concerned about their teaching on discipline. I hope to talk to her about it again soon. I guess I did it deliberately. I had just started reading the book 'Grace Based Discipline' by Tim Kimmel and started talking about the book. I find it pretty easy to talk to people about exciting things I am learning because I love sharing my findings with others.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2005, 07:07 PM   #9
erinee
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,081
erinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond reputeerinee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: what made you change?

It was sort of gradual for me. I was never terribly punitive, but did spank a few times when I was at my wit's end, particularly when Zach was 3, and in other ways I was much more mainstream than I am now. I think what did it for me was just being on the internet and having my eyes opened up to other ways of doing things. Zach was very high-needs, and I just sort of stumbled across Dr. Sears Parenting the FUssy Baby and High Needs Child -- it sounded like Zach, for sure, so I grabbed it, and that was my first introduction to AP. Again, I remained fairly mainstream even after reading it, but it was there in my head.

When I was pregnant with Megan, I was determined to make breastfeeding work this time and started going to LLL meetings and reading more Sears books. I learned more and more about AP from various websites. I found GMC.

The big thing that made me decide I would never again spank (and again, it didn't happen often, but I would justify it when it did happen) was when I thought, "I ask myself what Jesus would do in everything other part of my life -- why not in my parenting? I can't imagine Jesus ever spanking or yelling at a child." That was it. I never spanked again, and although I do sometimes yell, I'm getting much better and asking myself how would Jesus do this? I'm so glad God directed my thinking in that way and led me to those websites, to Dr. Sears, and eventually here to GMC where my parenting and my faith finally came together.
__________________
Erin INFP Wielder of the Saxophone of Praise Zach INTP (3/98)Megan ENFP (3/02)


erinee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 09:52 AM   #10
arymanth
Rose Bouquet
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 959
arymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud of
Default Re: what made you change?

I started out VERY punitive in my parenting. I did not realize at the time that I had been abused by my own parents... I thought that what I had experienced was normal. The church I was in when my children were young preached spanking and harsh discipline big time. My kids never had a chance.

What made me change? Believe it or not... it was Ezzo! LOL My mom had heard about "Growing Kids God's Way" and told me how wonderful it was and how I needed to try it with my kids because they were so out of control. (which they were, being ADHD and having a psycho-spanking mother!) So I got online and looked up Ezzo... and found an Ezzo debate board. Now, being a totally UN-scheduled person myself, I naturally thought his stuff was junk... but I hung around just to find out what he was all about, since the church I was going to was very big on Ezzo, too. I was disgusted by what I was reading... how mean!... how cruel!

Then someone posted a link to a spanking debate. I thought I would peek in, just to see what their arguments were. Of course, this was one place where Ezzo and I agreed... and somehow that was sort of creepy to me. I went to the debate thinking that I would present my air-tight "biblical" case to a bunch of New Age hippy airheads who would give me their own "touchy-feely" reasons not to hurt little Johnny's fragile ego by spanking him. Boy, was I surprised to find out that (at least on that board) the spankers were the ones who were angry, defensive, and WITHOUT A GOOD ARGUMENT! I didn't post, but just hung around and let the other spankers ask my questions and present my arguments, and every time there were half a dozen really sweet, gentle non-spankers who would answer with logic and reasoning I could not argue with!

I decided to go to the Bible myself and find out what was going on. After all, I had been taught all my life that spanking is BIBLICAL.... surely God couldn't be wrong.... but these people were making so much sense. I had been to Bible college, so I knew how to do a good word study on this subject... I got out all my resources and started digging.... and I could not find ANYTHING that supported my position. The verses I THOUGHT promoted spanking turned out to be FIGURATIVE (the "rod" verses). So I started doing a word search on OBEY and OBEDIENCE.... and in nearly every instance those words were coupled with the idea of LOVE. If you LOVE me you will OBEY me. Not as a form of emotional blackmail... but a simple statement... if you LOVE ME... obedience will naturally follow.

I started looking at my picture of God, and I was shocked to find that He wasn't who I thought he was. I realized that I had always seen GOD through the filter of MY FATHER. Now my dad is one of the most godly men I have ever met, and I know he really does mean well.... but he is also excessively punitive and just downright spiteful sometimes. I realized that I had a distorted image of God because of my Father. I started thinking about how my children see ME.... was I giving them an accurate picture of what God is like? The answer was "no".

God has really been working on my heart since then, and I still have a loooooong way to go, but that was the moment God touched me and showed me that what I was doing was hurting my family. I never meant to be a mean momma... I was just trying to be a GOOD mom! But I was abusive... just like my parents. I slapped, I screamed, and I was MEAN to my kids... in the name of "discipline."

I don't know if I have influenced anyone else or not IRL... but I have been on more than one debate board trying to be the kind of person who influenced ME to rethink my own parenting style. I have had several people say that my posts have changed the way they look at things. That's a start!

I think that what impressed me the most about the non-spankers I talked to on the debate boards was that their gentleness and peace really came through in their posts. They were not angry and defensive, they were patient and gentle... everything I really WANTED to be as a mom... and something that spanking and being punitive never allowed me to be. How can you be peaceful and gentle while you are hitting someone? Even when people attacked them or said harsh things to them, they always responded very calmly and rationally and didn't let their own emotions take over. Not that they were not passionate about their side, but it was always a tender passion... their concern was not only for the kids who were being spanked, but for the MOMS who were doing it without realizing the harm they were causing... like me.

Just like the love of God draws us to salvation... it can also draw us away from sin. God's love is so attractive, especially to those who know only harshness. If we can just DEMONSTRATE God's love, we will DRAW people to us who will want to know more about what makes us this way. If they can see this sweetness in us, they will be more open to hearing what we have to say. Just having well-behaved, obedient kids isn't all there is to it. I was a mom who had fairly obedient kids... but I was grinding my teeth and whispering threats all the time to keep it that way! I was stressed out and frustrated. I so desparately wanted that PEACE that I saw in other moms. I wanted to experience that LOVE that they had for their kids... something that I did not have as a child, and that I could not seem to achieve with my own. I was taught that you had to EARN love and acceptance. "I will love you as long as you are GOOD ... if your room is clean, if you are nice and do what I tell you... then I can love you. If you make yourself UN-lovable... well, that's not my fault, you will just have to suffer until you decide to be GOOD." And I still struggle with this to this day....holding my children at arm's length until they "measure up" to my standards. God forgive me!



Well, this has gotten a lot longer than I intended... but I guess you get the idea.

Stephanie
Fledgeling Gentle Mom to my five fabulous kids!
__________________
Stephanie, Mom to Seven Sensational Kids...
Christopher -24, Jordan -21, Ian -19, Benjamin -16, Ivy -14, Josie -7 and Ronen -4
and creator of IvyRose Spica Chairs

Now blogging at The Shepherd's Apprentice
arymanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 10:18 AM   #11
Chris3jam
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,861
Chris3jam has disabled reputation
Default Re: what made you change?

I could have written parts of most of every post here, so I won't recap! But, what started the change in me was the niggling in the back of my mind. When I let that "niggling" get the better of me, was when I started to think differently. It all started with a sermon on sheep and shepherds, and I just could NOT understand how spanking could be justified as regards to that. It was mostly my experience with sheep, and my failure with my now 21 yo son, which just brought all the questions to the fore. And now here I am!
__________________
Wielder of the Cutlass of Acerbic Wit and the Phaser of Perseverance!
Chris3jam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2005, 03:19 PM   #12
katiekind
Deactivated
I support GCM!
 
Peace be with you.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the sweet sunny south
Posts: 15,359
katiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond reputekatiekind has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: what made you change?

Quote:
So I got online and looked up Ezzo... and found an Ezzo debate board.
Oh! Oh! I didn't realize that I know you from that board! This is the Stephanie with 4 boys and a princess, right?

Interesting story, Stephanie. How neat! It validates my opinion that debate message boards really DO change peoples' minds and can be a real ministry.
katiekind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2005, 04:34 PM   #13
Garnet
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,483
Garnet is on a distinguished road
Default Re: what made you change?

*without reading all the posts*

I had never heard of Ap or GBD until I came here. I practiced Ap, but didn't know it had a name. It was instinctual for me. Going from a Ap babyhood, to a toddlerhood where the norm was to spank your child was tough. I never wanted to spank, and it didn't make anyone feel any better about the problem. I would be upset, the child would be even more upset....... Plus I have a stepchild who has ADHD and often I'm told all these kids need is a good spanking. But that isn't it. They cannot help their behavioral actions for the most part. They need love above all things, and tolerance. When I first came to Gentle Christian Mothering, and heard of GBD, I though, oh yeah that works for people who live perfect lives, and have perfect children.....but my life is not perfect, and my children are not perfect! They have ADHD, and OCD and behaviors, and seperation anxieties! That'll never work......and then I tried it. And right away things got easier and better for all of us. My stepson who has ADHD, responded better, even though it was discipline. My youngest dear children responeded too. We began to work through issues. The hard part is convincing dh.....still working on that.
Garnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2005, 04:56 PM   #14
chelsea
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,380
chelsea is a glorious beacon of lightchelsea is a glorious beacon of lightchelsea is a glorious beacon of lightchelsea is a glorious beacon of lightchelsea is a glorious beacon of lightchelsea is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: what made you change?

Stephanie, that was a great post! It really encouraged me because it's kind of the same place I have come from!
__________________
"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I will praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."
chelsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2005, 08:19 PM   #15
arymanth
Rose Bouquet
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NE Wisconsin
Posts: 959
arymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud ofarymanth has much to be proud of
Default Re: what made you change?

Quote:
Oh! Oh! I didn't realize that I know you from that board! This is the Stephanie with 4 boys and a princess, right?
Yep, that's me!!! It's good to see a familiar face! I still lurk on the Ezzo debate board, but it's been pretty quiet lately. It's still hard to believe that Ezzo is what made me decide NOT to spank! LOL I guess it's true, God takes what was meant for evil and turns it to my good!

Stephanie,
mom to 4 boys and a princess!
__________________
Stephanie, Mom to Seven Sensational Kids...
Christopher -24, Jordan -21, Ian -19, Benjamin -16, Ivy -14, Josie -7 and Ronen -4
and creator of IvyRose Spica Chairs

Now blogging at The Shepherd's Apprentice
arymanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:04 AM.


A variety of opinions and ideas are shared on GCM. Personal experiences, suggestions, and tips found here are in no way intended to substitute for medical counsel from a healthcare professional. Always use your own good judgement and seek professional advice when in doubt about a health concern.

Amazon.com affiliate link

Copyright 1997-2017 by Gentle Christian Mothers™
An alternative-minded, evangelical Christian community supporting attachment parenting and natural living.

Do not post content elsewhere.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/

Some smilies created and copyrighted by Mazeguy.
Some smilies and avatars created and copyrighted by flowermama and children -- do not use elsewhere.

Soli Deo Gloria
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ~ Romans 16:27 (KJV)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.