NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child - Page 4

rjy9343 · 03-13-2015, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooey

It was also being debated fifty years ago. (Sometimes it is good to have a very long memory......).

Really? I had no idea that this debate has been happening for so long.I thought it started sometime in the late eighties. I have always heard that it was standard during the fifties and sixties and of course that is why kids were not the little heathens they are today. Of course, I grew up in the rural South, so it is entirely possible that it was the case in my little corner.
However you slice it, long memories are vital to stopping lies and keeping truth alive.

Hermana Linda · 03-13-2015, 01:55 PM

Since this thread is in a public forum, I have linked to it here. I also have a post highlighting MariJo7's excellent rebuttal. If anyone else would like to write something for my blog, just let me know.

rjy9343 · 03-13-2015, 02:02 PM

I completely agree with you, ShepherdsWife. People who find the more mainstream philosophies of independence as early as possible off putting will find the attachment the Pearls promote very comfortable. If they are Christians, this is possibly the first place they have found that is safe for them to be both Christian and AP. Add in the very light spanking they say they follow and you just found everything you could possibly ever hope to find. The poison they use is so sweet that by the time you realize you are in trouble, you are very ill. More than once I have thanked God for this place. My daughter is strong willed (though I prefer to think of her as persistent) and autistic, it is not hyperbole to say that she would hate me for all that I did to her and I would have no idea what to do about her rebellion.
Hermana Linda is right about the way they view spanking and training. If you ignore the blows that are just to train, then spanking is almost non existent. I can easily see how you can be sucked into this before you know it. My cousin loves NGJ and posts a lot of memes from them. I liked a couple of them before I realized what they were because the quotes could have come from here. In fact there were several that sounded just like paraphrasing things Arms of Love has written. Others have been the exact same advice I got from other women on GCM.

Hermana Linda · 03-13-2015, 02:13 PM

Thank you. Yes, he goes on an on about how this training is NOT spanking, it's just training to avoid spanking. Then he weaves a silky web about how it's the loving and gentle thing to do. He also emphasises how important it is to a child's mental health that you never raise your voice or get angry, and how this training will allow that. He speaks in glowing terms or how happy both mother and obedient child will be and in disgusted derision of those who refuse to follow his teachings. He mixes in a lot of down home humor. This concoction is very powerful and very dangerous.

rjy9343 · 03-13-2015, 02:47 PM

Exactly. It cannot be overstated how comfortable those people make you feel with training to avoid spanking. Training looks so kind and loving especially if you are coming from a place of abuse. You don't ever spank in anger because they are taught early on how to obey and if they choose to disobey, you spank quickly to avoid being angry and everyone wins.

ShepherdsWife · 03-13-2015, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjy9343

Exactly. It cannot be overstated how comfortable those people make you feel with training to avoid spanking. Training looks so kind and loving especially if you are coming from a place of abuse. You don't ever spank in anger because they are taught early on how to obey and if they choose to disobey, you spank quickly to avoid being angry and everyone wins.

Exactly, and it was that sort of rhetoric and win feeling that made me first read so much of their stuff. It seems so perfect at first...and, then, when you start balking at parts of it and feel something is wrong all the Scripture to back them up keep you plugging along thinking something is wrong with you instead of the whole system of discipline.

zak · 03-13-2015, 05:01 PM

Yeah, his word choices are :shudder . So twisty and ugh.... no. NOPE. Pile OF NOPE!!!!

MariJo7 · 03-15-2015, 06:52 AM

It is this cool blooded and calculating way in which they write that really gives me the creeps...

rjy9343 · 03-15-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariJo7

It is this cool blooded and calculating way in which they write that really gives me the creeps...

That is why is sounded so good. It is a calculated and well thought out way of doing things. It sounds so level headed and reasonable that it must be right.

MariJo7 · 03-16-2015, 12:39 AM

Yep, and that may also be the reason for that so many DADS fall for it. Men often claim to be so rational...

rjy9343 · 03-16-2015, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariJo7

Yep, and that may also be the reason for that so many DADS fall for it. Men often claim to be so rational...

I also think that it is because mothers are the ones that completely change their lives before the baby even gets here. We also feel every movement and have crazy cravings because of the baby that men don't have. For my husband our babies are not entirely real until they get here and he does more than see an ultra sound picture.

CelticJourney · 03-16-2015, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjy9343

I also think that it is because mothers are the ones that completely change their lives before the baby even gets here. We also feel every movement and have crazy cravings because of the baby that men don't have. For my husband our babies are not entirely real until they get here and he does more than see an ultra sound picture.

There are theories within anthropology that male domination (patriarchy is a good example) comes from insecurity over female ability to give life and her connection to the natural/spiritual. Just tossing that out there.

MidnightCafe · 03-16-2015, 06:18 AM

Just popping in to say that DD & I are still working through the article and getting some things written down. I am so happy that DD finds this so astonishing. I feel like I've truly done my job.

We have been treating the article with a fair amount of humor & sarcasm...because it's pretty tough subject material. I keep apologizing to DD that clearly she's going to be a juvenile delinquent since we didn't spank her.

Tasmanian Saint · 03-24-2015, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjy9343

Really? I had no idea that this debate has been happening for so long.I thought it started sometime in the late eighties. I have always heard that it was standard during the fifties and sixties and of course that is why kids were not the little heathens they are today. Of course, I grew up in the rural South, so it is entirely possible that it was the case in my little corner.
However you slice it, long memories are vital to stopping lies and keeping truth alive.

much longer than that, in various forms...as just one example, "Marmee" in Little Women says, "I don't believe in corporal punishment, especially for girls," and pulls her daughter out of school over it. That book's over a hundred years old...

rjy9343 · 03-24-2015, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasmanian Saint

much longer than that, in various forms...as just one example, "Marmee" in Little Women says, "I don't believe in corporal punishment, especially for girls," and pulls her daughter out of school over it. That book's over a hundred years old...

You're right, I had forgotten about that. I think there was also some condemning of it by Dickens in David Copperfield and possibly Oliver Twist, it was just not as overt.

It has been a while since I read those books, so I will have to reread them to be sure.

03-13-2015, 01:55 PM	#47
Hermana Linda Administrator "air-mannah Leen-dah" it means Sister Linda in Spanish Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 51,845	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Since this thread is in a public forum, I have linked to it here. I also have a post highlighting MariJo7's excellent rebuttal. If anyone else would like to write something for my blog, just let me know. __________________ My pages: Why Not Train A Child? and the FB Page as well as @WhyNotTrain on Twitter Read about how my husband was Pulled From The River By God Last edited by Hermana Linda; 03-13-2015 at 01:58 PM.

03-13-2015, 02:02 PM	#48
rjy9343 Rose Garden Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 10,090	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child I completely agree with you, ShepherdsWife. People who find the more mainstream philosophies of independence as early as possible off putting will find the attachment the Pearls promote very comfortable. If they are Christians, this is possibly the first place they have found that is safe for them to be both Christian and AP. Add in the very light spanking they say they follow and you just found everything you could possibly ever hope to find. The poison they use is so sweet that by the time you realize you are in trouble, you are very ill. More than once I have thanked God for this place. My daughter is strong willed (though I prefer to think of her as persistent) and autistic, it is not hyperbole to say that she would hate me for all that I did to her and I would have no idea what to do about her rebellion. Hermana Linda is right about the way they view spanking and training. If you ignore the blows that are just to train, then spanking is almost non existent. I can easily see how you can be sucked into this before you know it. My cousin loves NGJ and posts a lot of memes from them. I liked a couple of them before I realized what they were because the quotes could have come from here. In fact there were several that sounded just like paraphrasing things Arms of Love has written. Others have been the exact same advice I got from other women on GCM. __________________ Rita s IstJ Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08 Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10 mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15 Often Please forgive my frequent typos Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!! I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook

03-13-2015, 02:13 PM	#49
Hermana Linda Administrator "air-mannah Leen-dah" it means Sister Linda in Spanish Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 51,845	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Thank you. Yes, he goes on an on about how this training is NOT spanking, it's just training to avoid spanking. Then he weaves a silky web about how it's the loving and gentle thing to do. He also emphasises how important it is to a child's mental health that you never raise your voice or get angry, and how this training will allow that. He speaks in glowing terms or how happy both mother and obedient child will be and in disgusted derision of those who refuse to follow his teachings. He mixes in a lot of down home humor. This concoction is very powerful and very dangerous. __________________ My pages: Why Not Train A Child? and the FB Page as well as @WhyNotTrain on Twitter Read about how my husband was Pulled From The River By God

03-13-2015, 02:47 PM	#50
rjy9343 Rose Garden Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 10,090	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Exactly. It cannot be overstated how comfortable those people make you feel with training to avoid spanking. Training looks so kind and loving especially if you are coming from a place of abuse. You don't ever spank in anger because they are taught early on how to obey and if they choose to disobey, you spank quickly to avoid being angry and everyone wins. __________________ Rita s IstJ Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08 Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10 mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15 Often Please forgive my frequent typos Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!! I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook

03-13-2015, 05:01 PM	#52
zak Administrator Friend of the Fellowship Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The South Posts: 33,212	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Yeah, his word choices are :shudder . So twisty and ugh.... no. NOPE. Pile OF NOPE!!!! __________________ -zak Wife to MrZak Mama to the ZakKids - 2005, 2007, 2010, 2012 and 2017 Dedicated GCMer since 2003 Administrator and Moderating Cradled, Babes, Breastfeeding, Beautiful Mothers and Circumcision

03-15-2015, 06:52 AM	#53
MariJo7 Rose Trellis Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2,065	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child It is this cool blooded and calculating way in which they write that really gives me the creeps...

03-16-2015, 12:39 AM	#55
MariJo7 Rose Trellis Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2,065	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Yep, and that may also be the reason for that so many DADS fall for it. Men often claim to be so rational...

03-16-2015, 06:18 AM	#58
MidnightCafe Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,187	Re: NGJ New Addition to To Train Up a Child Just popping in to say that DD & I are still working through the article and getting some things written down. I am so happy that DD finds this so astonishing. I feel like I've truly done my job. We have been treating the article with a fair amount of humor & sarcasm...because it's pretty tough subject material. I keep apologizing to DD that clearly she's going to be a juvenile delinquent since we didn't spank her. __________________ Wife to DH, friend of my soul... Mama to Mane (age 14), Vespera (age 26), and Niteo (son-in-law)

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