Women Living Well Ministries

[dulce de leche]

Originally Posted by HealthymamaHappymama

Todays post she is talking about Michelle Dugger in her gentleness series. What do you ladies think? I do enjoy watching that show to see how they do it. Myself growing up in a family that people thought was great on the outside or at least people thought my parents we're great "your parents are so nice! what are you talking about" I wonder if they are truly that gentle and easygoing. I hope so! I think I tend to not know who you can trust these days.

The Duggars give a glowing recommendation to the Pearls on their website, as well as S. M. Davis and ATI/Gothard.

[RealLifeMama]

I think that most people in mainstream america do think of the Duggars as gentle parents. They don't yell, etc, and they seem so close, etc. I have never actually seen them, so I don't know, I am just going by what I have read here, and what friends of mine say.
This blogger seems like just a "normative" mainstream American Christian Stay at home homeschooling mom.

This thread feels gossipy to me.

[ArmsOfLove]

This thread feels gossipy to me.

may I ask why this feels gossipy to you? Is it just because people are being talked about? Or are things being shared that aren't public. I'm trying to scan the thread in light of this statement but so far I'm seeing talk about the tv show and the blog and those are very public things that invite reaction

[RealLifeMama]

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

may I ask why this feels gossipy to you? Is it just because people are being talked about? Or are things being shared that aren't public. I'm trying to scan the thread in light of this statement but so far I'm seeing talk about the tv show and the blog and those are very public things that invite reaction

It is not because of a blog or TV show being talked about, it is the sweeping statements about a person that no one here really "knows". Saying things with lots of and and all that. Reading the thread as if we were in someone's living room having a conversation, it is just the "vibe" I got, with a lot of back and forth. It is just a few statements that gave me that vibe. Remember a while back when there were some blogs or other forums (or both) that were talking about the moms here on GCM by name, saying how pitiful some of us and our families were? How they had read a few things that had been posted here in public forums and used those to construct opinions and make sweeping judgements about the moms here and our families? Then they shared those things on their blogs or in forums where they were members and people talked about those people that had posted? Not exactly like but in the same vein as "did you see that she said this and she said that? I feel so sorry for her kids" etc. It kind of feels like that. Notice, though, I am just saying it "feels" like that, and that I got a "vibe". It is just the feeling I get, not saying that people are gossipping.

[ArmsOfLove]

Thank you for explaining. That's why I asked

I think it's a hard and fine line and I do believe we do best to err on the side of being a godly example

[CelticJourney]

This thread feels gossipy to me.

While we always need to be on guard of this, I want to explain what I am seeing. We are looking at a teacher and someone is asking if their teaching is true and worth of sitting under. All of the responses have refered to teachings, recommendations and associations that have been made public by the people involved in the process of their teaching or promoting (ie the Duggars, who have said they are doing this show as an example to others). If we were discussing personal issues that were not put out deliberately by the teachers involved, it would share your concern. As it is, I think what we have at the moment is an attempt to apply discernment as to what teachings we personally accept.



Edited to Add: I went back and looked around some more. I clicked on a video about 'Learning Submission'. She began by saying that she had received some negative comments on youtube after her last video about submitting to husbands. Then she said (light paraphrasing) that 'if you had a problem with what I said, you are really in disagreement with the Bible and with God, not me' (See the study of The Subtle Power of Spritual Abuse in the Bible Study forum if you don't know why that is a huge red flag)

She has clearly put herself in the position of 'teacher' and therefore it is the respnosibility of the reader/listener to discern if her teaching are in accord with the gospel or not.

[jewelmcjem]

This is not 'just another mommy blogger' if she is speaking at conferences on the topic of parenting. But speculation on what she MIGHT be saying is just that, speculation. Until someone has actually heard her teaching, and can share what that teaching is, we really can only guess.

[SweetCaroline]

ok..is this the upbeat smiley woman on Youtube??

she came up on a Charlotte Mason search recently..

it bugs me that punitive people use CM. Im going to S/O on this

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 AM ----------

oh yeah ETA: the heart of gossip "to me" is filling peoples heads with ideas and opinions that arent their own regarding a person.

like if i've never met Bob..but all you do is let on about how you think he's such a jerk ..then i never got a chance to form my OWN opinion of Bob..im automatically swayed. i'm probably going to have a hard time not seeing him as a jerk when i finally do meet him..

so- if shes publically punitive..then call it out.

if nobody here knows..then make an effort to find out before speaking

[Taedareth]

Does her blog allow readers to post comments? Maybe some of you ladies who read her blog could invite her to check out GCM? If she's on a journey toward gentle parenting, maybe she'll find some help here.

[jewelmcjem]

To those who may not realize, this is a public forum & she can see anything written about her here.

[SortaCrunchy]

I would like to weigh in on this with a heart toward compassion for Courtney (Women Living Well blogger).

It is true that she practices punitive parenting and advocates WOS. She has found her niche in teaching and encouraging women who share similar views on applications of Scripture that support those things. I've known for a long time that she advocates those positions, so I choose not to read her blog, but I have many, many friends who do.

I don't know how to say this without offending, but Courtney and my friends who read her and the thousands of women who subscribe to her blog ... they truly believe that they the application of Scripture they adhere to is THE correct way. They are earnestly trying to encourage each other to be the wives and mothers God would have them to be. They have not had, for whatever reason, an epiphany that many of us here have had that would cause them to reconsider what they've always been taught to be truth.

It took me YEARS to let go of my attachment to WOS and spanking-as-godly-discipline. When you are raised in that mindset, it is very difficult to untrench (as so many of you here know first hand). Additionally, it is a very lonely place to be when all of your friends practice these things.

I am encouraged that Courtney is doing a focus on gentle parenting. I think the best (!!!) thing we can do as a community of women right now is pray that her heart and mind would be open to a non-punitive approach to discipline. She is a teacher with a huge amount of influence, and if God moves in her heart to reconsider spanking, imagine the impact it would have!

Though I'm not participating in her challenge, I will be covering her in prayer as it continues, asking God to break down the walls that are preventing her from accepting true gentle discipline that is free from punishment and is focused on grace.

[CelticJourney]

I don't know how to say this without offending, but Courtney and my friends who read her and the thousands of women who subscribe to her blog ... they truly believe that they the application of Scripture they adhere to is THE correct way

.It's not offensive at all. We freely acknowledge here that people who follow such teachings truely love their children and are doing the best they know how.

But there is a change that happens when someone goes from 'fellow Christian on a Journey' to 'teacher/minister'. Their intention does not change the message and does not remove the teacher from their accountability as such. I do not judge her as a person (nor anyone who follows her - I assume they are all women seeking God), but I am certainly called to discern her teachings. And I might add, she does not extend the same consideration, as apparently my disagreement with her teaching is a 'problem with the Bible and God', so....

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Taedareth

Does her blog allow readers to post comments? Maybe some of you ladies who read her blog could invite her to check out GCM? If she's on a journey toward gentle parenting, maybe she'll find some help here.

Please don't do this. If she comes here, so be it. She would be welcome. But it is a very delicate thing to cross over one board with another and it usually leads to hard feeling and friction rather than understanding.

[HealthymamaHappymama]

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

While we always need to be on guard of this, I want to explain what I am seeing. We are looking at a teacher and someone is asking if their teaching is true and worth of sitting under. All of the responses have refered to teachings, recommendations and associations that have been made public by the people involved in the process of their teaching or promoting (ie the Duggars, who have said they are doing this show as an example to others). If we were discussing personal issues that were not put out deliberately by the teachers involved, it would share your concern. As it is, I think what we have at the moment is an attempt to apply discernment as to what teachings we personally accept.



Edited to Add: I went back and looked around some more. I clicked on a video about 'Learning Submission'. She began by saying that she had received some negative comments on youtube after her last video about submitting to husbands. Then she said (light paraphrasing) that 'if you had a problem with what I said, you are really in disagreement with the Bible and with God, not me' (See the study of The Subtle Power of Spritual Abuse in the Bible Study forum if you don't know why that is a huge red flag)

She has clearly put herself in the position of 'teacher' and therefore it is the respnosibility of the reader/listener to discern if her teaching are in accord with the gospel or not.

I'm going to have to check out that study that might help me a lot Could someone also let me know what WOS is? Thanks!

[katiekind]

Could someone also let me know what WOS is?

WOS is short for "wife-only submission", which in turn is short for the teaching that only wives are biblically called to submit in the marriage relationship. Another point of view is that both husbands and wives are called to submit to God and to one another. That latter idea is sometimes given the acronym MS, short for "mutual submission."

[jewelmcjem]

As I mentioned might happen, Courtney followed Google back & has read this thread. She clicked thru my siggy link and left me a very sweet message explaining her views.....which are pretty much what was discussed. I asked her permission to post it here, but will not be continuing a back-and-forth for her.

Hi Jaycee - google alerted me to the Gentle Mothers Forum mentioning my site - so you are right I am reading along lol!!! And I'm okay with the conversation. It's a good discussion to have. If you want to tell them I clicked on your "facebook" link at the bottom of your comment and contacted you - you can. I would NEVER promote the Pearls, Ezzos crying it out, Vision Forum or spanking (although once I did mention spanking long long ago and since have taken it down - that was a mistake.). I"ve taken down other videos that I reconsidered after posting also - like one on divorce...it was too brief to explain my stance - so I don't bother lol! I think that's between women and their pastors, circumstances etc. sweeping statements are not appropriate for my blog...so I try to be an encourager rather than against things if that makes sense.

I'm not against spanking but I"m for gentleness. I"m not against crying it out - but I"m for seriously tending to your children. I'm not against public schools (and someday my kids might attend) but I'm for moms training their children in the admonitions of the Lord. I'm not against women working - but I am for women making their homes havens - whether they work or not...hope this makes sense - I try to avoid the controversy of being against things - blak - the world is negative enough! I try to be an encourager by being for good things...

I am for men being the heads of the home. That is probably pretty obvious though lol! But not mean men ruling over women in an abusive way. But goodwilled men who love their wives but are difficult to live with sometimes cause they are quirky - I'm for women in those marriages sticking with it and not giving up - to pray and let him lead even though her flesh says I'm outta here.

My heart is to encourage women to love God and his word first and to obey him as best as we can in our marriages, parenting and homemaking. I don't want to get into people's "philosophies" but that's hard to not do when you are trying to be an open book - every now and then a philosophy I've "adopted" sneaks in - lol!

I will admit I am a flawed blogger- the cross says I am flawed - and I'm so thankful for grace. I am a girl in progress who is very aware that I have followers and have moved into a teaching role. I tread carefully and prayfully but want to humbly admit that I do have missteps. I try to delete them when I'm aware of them lol!

Thanks for listening - you are welcome to copy and paste this in the forum I love the hearts of the women there - their children are blessed to have mommies who are so passionate about loving them. Beautiful!

Keep walking with the King!
Courtney