Hand Sanitizer -- yea or nay?

[SamRose]

Originally Posted by hopeforchange

i wonder this too...aren't cloth towels really germy? i mean, we use them, but i always cringe and wonder if we should be using paper towels.

My MIL uses paper towels and it seems like so much waste. If using hand towels is germy, then we'll just stay germy, lol. I cant justify the waste of using paper towels to dry clean hands. I know there are moms on this board who dont use them at all for waste factor, hopefully they'll chime in.

[klpmommy]

i use cloth towels exclusively. we have a bunch & replace often.

[Soliloquy]

Love Bears All--that's our philosophy as well. Our skin is our largest organ. You can take many Rx drugs through a skin patch now, even BCPs! If those can enter my bloodstream from just a tiny sticker ... yeah.

Afa cloth towels being germy, they're not germier than anything else. I could walk around all day wearing latex gloves, never take my kids to the library or a public playground, change the bed sheets every morning ... where would it end? I change my dish rag, dish towel, and kitchen hand towel every morning (I let them dry out overnight). I change the hand towel in the bathroom 2-3x per week. Your hands are clean by the time you dry them. I rarely use paper towel, I buy maybe 4 rolls a year. My grandmother grew up on a farm. They had handmade soap and washed their hands before meals and bathed once a week. She had 2 dresses--everyday and Sunday. She shared a bed w/ her sisters. They drank water out of a common cup while working. (She was born in 1917 and had the swine flu in 1918, too.). She lived to be 93. She was never vaccinated either until she was quite old and they started urging flu and pneumonia shots for the elderly. Our kids are the first generation in a long time that will have a shorter life expectancy than their parents--in spite of more dollars spent per person on "healthcare" and greater access to healthcare. There's a whole lot to that, of course, but many of these modern "health care" practices are obviousky backfiring. Which ones do more harm than good will differ depending on who you ask, of course, but we work hard to keep chemicals away from our bodies.
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Originally Posted by zak

We use Lavender oil. A few drops on everyone's hands and rub. (That's if we can't get to a sink/soap). I do keep HS in the van for Hubby (or if I can't find my oil) because he doesn't like the smell of lavender.

Do you dilute this?

Originally Posted by IpsyBipsy*Mum

I am anti-hand sanitizer because it kills the good germs with the bad germs..plus it is not anti-viral, so what good is it IMO

I make our own with EOs that are both anti-viral, bacterial and anti-septic. With a vinegar, peroxide base it has more disinfecting power than bleach.

So hand sanitizer is antibac but not antiviral? what's the difference?

Would you be willing to share your own oil that you make? If not, do you sell it?

Originally Posted by hopeforchange

lisa, i would to hear more about how you transitioned to the no chemicals/fragrances/colors. also about how you clean your house vs. disinfect it.

i definitely agree about us needing to be exposed to things in order for our immune system to be strengthened. i am so unconcerned about germs that i would prolly totally freak some of you out. but my dd is rarely sick and has only been on one antibiotic in her life. i recently bought some hand sanitizer only b/c all the swine flu stuff made me paranoid, but i guess i'll toss it now.

Dude, I would freak people out too.

Originally Posted by klpmommy

sounds like me

I know! but I'm worse. We don't wash our hands after we go to the bathroom, unless we're in a public place and that's because of all the germs we're toughing to get into the public restroom. But at home, never. Unless we were to get something on our hands!

Originally Posted by hopeforchange

i wonder this too...aren't cloth towels really germy? i mean, we use them, but i always cringe and wonder if we should be using paper towels.

We use a cloth towel and change it once a week. But we don't use it a ton because like I said, we don't wash our hands after pottying.

I wash my hands before cooking or before washing my face. But overall, we don't worry about germs much at all.

[Serafine]

Originally Posted by Love Bears All

I might be in a vast minority but I don't use anything on my skin that I would not put in my mouth.

Well, then that shouldn't rule out an ethanol (even 62%) hand sanitizer. That amount of ethanol (that is put on the hands) - even if it left a residue - would be the same or less than the amount in an herbal extract or a mixed drink.

BTW - I always find it funny that I am "debating" this particular side of things...considering we don't even own any hand sanitizer. But, I think it is important to flesh out facts, regardless of what I do personally.

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Originally Posted by HummusDip

So hand sanitizer is antibac but not antiviral? what's the difference?

Sort-of...

VIruses are not "alive" b/c they cannot replicate outside a host. (Lots and lots of fun debate in the science world about what constitutes alive/not alive when it comes to viruses)...so "death" of a virus is actually simply inactivation.

It is true that some viruses are readily inactivated by alcohol; however, some are not. Viruses consist of nucleic acid (either RNA or DNA) surrounded by a capsid (protein shell). Some viruses have an additional external layer or wrapping known as an envelope. The envelope is created from a piece of phospholipid membrane that comes from the infected host cell during the “budding” process when viral particles leave the infected cell. Enveloped viruses are referred to as lipophilic viruses, because of their lipid envelope, while nonenveloped viruses are referred to as non-lipophilic viruses.

Generally, enveloped (lipophilic) viruses are susceptible to alcohol: Herpes simplex virus (HSV), human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), influenza virus (Flu), respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), vaccinia virus, Hepatitis B and C viruses are considered susceptible to alcohols.

However, certain nonenveloped (nonlipophilic) viruses such as hepatitis A and enteroviruses, which are both responsible for viral gastrointestinal infections. Depending on the alcohol concentration of the hand-cleanser and time of exposure to the alcohol, hepatitis A and other nonlipophilic viruses may not be eliminated.

Alcohol breaks down the envelope IF in high enough concentration (minimum 62%) and IF used for appropriate time of exposure (15-20 seconds minimum).

[JavaMama]

I use both... at home or somewhere with access to running water I prefer soap and warm/hot water for adequate handwashing (I've heard some suggesting singing the ABC song as a way to know you've washed long enough).

However, I'm a midwife... when I have Amish appts, I am in and out of different family's homes all day- I really don't want to be spreading any colds or germs from one family to another if I can help it. Some have running water, others do not. So, on Amish prenatal days I use hand sanitizer (EO or Burt's Bees brand, chemical free) before and after I enter each home. If I am at a new order Amish home with running water, I'll wash my hands really good with soap while I'm there too.

And fwiw, I only use antibacterial soap if it is the only kind available... the common ingredient in antibacterial soap has been banned in Europe.

@home I tend to rinse my hands with water unless I've used the bathroom or touched meat, and then I wash my hands well with non-antibacterial soap.

My dh washes his hands all the time, lots of soap, and his hands are always dry... in the winter they end up cracked open.

[illinoismommy]

I change cloth towels several times a day usually. And I use 6+ washcloths a day. I'm crazy like that.

I agree about being exposed to germs except I am 32 weeks pregnant and in my dream world all sickness would be prevented until the spring. This just isn't the year of immune system strengthening for me...

[Serafine]

Originally Posted by Love Bears All

But what else is in that hand sanitizer? It is not ethanol I am ruling out. It is all of the other stuff. I am extremely sensitive to chemicals and it's not worth it to me to use something that contains questionable chemicals. I'd rather use a vodka/essential oil blend. Maybe some Everclear 191 would do.

Oh, I get what you are saying. THe only hand sanitizer that I allow here (DH keeps it at work, b/c he is a paramedic and deals with the kind of filth that I think even the most staunch opposers of hand sanitizers on this thread woudl choose to use hand sanitizer for ) is a straight spray mix of ethanol and distilled water...diluted to 70%. No other additives.

[zak]

Originally Posted by HummusDip

Do you dilute this?

Sometimes. I keep a spray bottle with some drops and water in the van, I use it for F's curls and our hands. If that isn't handy (no pun intended), I just use a couple drops of oil per person and rub. I didn't do the research about this... a friend told me to do it, so I'm just blindly trusting her. I should look it up, I guess.

I am enjoying reading all of these replies.

[Six Little Feet]

Originally Posted by HummusDip

Do you dilute this?




I know! but I'm worse. We don't wash our hands after we go to the bathroom, unless we're in a public place and that's because of all the germs we're toughing to get into the public restroom. But at home, never. Unless we were to get something on our hands!

I am a bit unsure how to respond. Feces are very dirty. They can cause many illnesses. E. coli. You are also potting others at risk. If I shake your hand then you could pass your germ on to me.

[hopeforchange]

Originally Posted by Six Little Feet

I am a bit unsure how to respond. Feces are very dirty. They can cause many illnesses. E. coli. You are also potting others at risk. If I shake your hand then you could pass your germ on to me.

but are you touching feces when you go to the bathroom?

[Six Little Feet]

Originally Posted by hopeforchange

but are you touching feces when you go to the bathroom?

Probably.

http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/post_flush.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/why-sho...o-the-bathroom

[TestifyToLove]

Only one strain of e.coli is truly dangerous and a person will not get sick from their own feces re-entering their intestinal tract from the other end (did that research when my ASD son told me I was lying that he would get sick by eating his own poop cause he had done it for years and never got sick from it ).

I'm a firm believer in the fact that germs are not the enemy per se and research consistently bears out the fact that trying to avoid germs is what is making Industrialized nations sicker, not learning to destroy those germs.

That said, we keep hand sanitizer and for certain situations we use it liberally. M is extremely oral seeking. I use hs liberally on his hands in public in-between hand washings. When we go to any doctor's office, I use hs on a paper towel to scrub down the toys before M gets them into his mouth. And, when I'm messing with Ch's port, I wash my hands with a surgical scrub but still apply h/s before sticking a needle in him. We also ambush all medical professionals in hospital stays with liberal amounts of h/s whether they wash their hands or not. M is always under contact isolation, more is better for his sake when nosicomal infections have taken him to the brink of death twice already.

But, in the house, we clean with vinegar, water and baking soda. TTO has fumes that are too harsh for M's lungs so we don't use it. Bleach sends M into near instant bronchiospasms so except for the nasty infestation of drain flies we battled this summer, we don't allow bleach anywhere in the house.

Several of the kids are really big on hs after going anywhere near M's poop. They wash well with soap and water first and then sanitize. In that situation, I don't know if it does any good except that it makes them feel better so I let them.

Hand sanitizer is better than nothing but it is not better than handwashing. It was never meant to replace handwashing in the first place. But, in medical situations, it does in fact serve a strong purpose that is healthy and does protect the health of patients.

[SamRose]

Originally Posted by hopeforchange

but are you touching feces when you go to the bathroom?

I saw one of those shows where they do science experiments to test thigns out, and they tested wrapping toilet paper vs wadding it to wipe, and see if one kept more berms off. They found that the more paper U use, the less likely the germs get thru to yer hands, obviously. But that even w/ wut seemed like more than avg amt of TP, germs still got thru the paper.

Originally Posted by TestifyToLove

Only one strain of e.coli is truly dangerous and a person will not get sick from their own feces re-entering their intestinal tract from the other end (did that research when my ASD son told me I was lying that he would get sick by eating his own poop cause he had done it for years and never got sick from it ).

Which would be cool if we stuck non-washers in a bubble of their own. I'm less concerned with a person making them self sick and more concerned with the spread of disease.