Pope ok'd spanking?!

[Kat]

Ok, first, I'm typing from my iPad so I can't tell if this has already been addressed elsewhere. But I saw this on fb, so I wanted to share. I find this terribly disappointing, if it's true. :-(

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/...king/22958757/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hermana Linda]

I hadn't seen it elsewhere here. How sad. Thanks for sharing.

Sent by Tapatalk from my phone

[ArmsOfLove]

this is such a bizarre thought/disconnect being expressed

Pingleton believes that spanking done reactively, in a way that does not take into account leaving permanent physical damage or that has not been explained to a child, is wrong. But he believes if a family handles spanking proactively, by deciding on the punishment ahead of time and explaining the reason for the punishment, that it is helpful. He also believes it should be done in private and with a child clothed, so as not to cause humiliation.

"Discipline comes from the root word disciple, to teach, and punishment is angry, often out of control, motivated by emotional activity," Pingleton said.

[Aerynne]

He only said it was okay if it preserves the dignity of the child. Since spanking doesn't preserve the dignity of the child, spanking is not okay.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by Aerynne

He only said it was okay if it preserves the dignity of the child. Since spanking doesn't preserve the dignity of the child, spanking is not okay.

Except that disconnect is where I see the problem.

Like with this Pingleton guy - "reactive discipline that is punishment isn't okay" - spanking is for teaching so it's great if done this way we've outlined our book on it . . . .

[Aerynne]

I know there is a problem in the disconnect. I just had a weird reaction to the statement like I would have a problem with any oxymoron like that "It's okay to yell as long as you don't raise your voice" or "It's okay to stick out your tongue at someone as long as your tongue stays in your mouth."

[ctab]

I haven't read the full passage that this came from, but one thing I have learned about this Pope is that he is often taken out of context, mistranslated, ect. I also think he doesn't do the best job realizing that he when he speaks the whole world will take it as a message as opposed to him just talking to the person in front of him.

He also was a church leader in a part of the world where I am guessing corporal punishment in any form is still very accepted. So, he may be coming from the view that there can be progress in a good direction away from abuse if that makes sense.

And, most importantly I remember as a practicing Catholic that every statement the Pope says is not infallible. He is only infallible during with a very small set of circumstances when declaring church dogma. This is not that case. So in other words, I am free to disagree . Obviously, any non Catholic is free to disagree no matter what. I just want folks to know that this is not an explicit church teaching.

[rjy9343]

I don't really think this is going to matter one way or another. This is not a matter of church doctrine, so it is not something that is infallible. For that reason people who don't spank will shrug it off and say that it is his opinion. People who do spank will say the pope approves of it, but know because it is not an area where he is infallible, it is just another opinion. People on the fence will take his words into consideration, but that won't be the final word. And then you have all the non Catholics who don't care what the pope says because he is not their leader. This will die down in a few days and next year most people will not even remember that he weighed in on spanking let alone what he said.
Most people do not want to spank. Even in my conservative bible belt area, it is not something a lot of people want to admit. It is a last resort. Books that range from semi helpful like Love and Logic to the not so helpful like Creative Corrections are selling because parents know there must be a better way and are actively seeking it.

[Hermana Linda]

I read the stories in Spanish with the untranslated quotes. The translations I've seen so far seem fair. The part people are jumping on is that a man said that he sometimes spanks his son, but never on the face. The pope said that he thinks that was good. He did not say that everyone should spank, but he did commend a spanker for not hitting in the face. He assumes that parents spank. They usually leave out the part where he cautions against being controlling. He said to correct children strictly and firmly but not to be harsh. He says that discipline is important (which is is) and his background is such that I'm sure that the idea of discipline without spanking never crossed his mind.

For those who speak Spanish:
http://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/201...-bofetada.html



Sent by Tapatalk from my phone

[Sparrow]

I take it with a grain of salt. I think that's he's old - so from a generation that did spank, from a part of the world where spanking is normal.

Spanking reactively - hitting in anger you (universal) you are more likely to hit harder ad cause more physical damage.

Commending someone for not hitting In the face is a good step.

[Hermana Linda]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I take it with a grain of salt. I think that's he's old - so from a generation that did spank, from a part of the world where spanking is normal.

Spanking reactively - hitting in anger you (universal) you are more likely to hit harder ad cause more physical damage.

Commending someone for not hitting In the face is a good step.

Exactly!

Sent by Tapatalk from my phone

[rosesnsnails]

I was disappointed, but I hope that Hermana Linda and ctab's thoughts are correct.

[HadassahSukkot]

Originally Posted by ctab

He also was a church leader in a part of the world where I am guessing corporal punishment in any form is still very accepted.

Argentina banned corporal punishment last year.

The prohibition of corporal punishment is found in Title VII of the Code (“Parental Responsibility”), Chapter 2 (“Duties and rights of parents: General rules”), article 647 (“Prohibition of ill-treatment):

“All forms of corporal punishment, ill-treatment and any act that physically or mentally injures or impairs children and adolescents are prohibited.
Parents may request the assistance of guidance services by state agencies.”

The new Code will replace the Civil Code 1869, which in article 278 provides for the “power to correct”. There is no such power in the new Code.

http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org...html#Argentina


To me, it sounds like he assumed hitting and condoned not being harsh or hitting in the face. In a way, it was back-handed support for corporal punishment which is illegal in many countries with a high Catholic population.

Defending the pope's remarks, Rev. Thomas Rosica, who collaborates with the Vatican's press office, said Francis was not condoning violence or cruelty against children, but speaking about "helping someone to grow and mature."
"Simply watch Pope Francis when he is with children and let the images and gestures speak for themselves! To infer or distort anything else ... reveals a greater problem for those who don't seem to understand a pope who has ushered in a revolution of normalcy of simple speech and plain gesture," Rosica wrote.

http://www.dw.de/spank-the-kids-but-...ays/a-18237408

The Catholic Church, in a follow-up statement, said the Pope was not advocating for beating children, but for "helping someone to grow and mature."

The German Bishops Conference simply said "We don't speak for the pope."

http://www.thelocal.de/20150206/popes


OTOH, there is this:
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015...ignity/1121497


I can't find anything on Radio Vaticana (http://www.news.va/en) or the Vatican news site (http://www.news.va/en/) that references this comment... but I'm having difficulties thinking straight today with a stuffy head.




---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I take it with a grain of salt. I think that's he's old - so from a generation that did spank, from a part of the world where spanking is normal.

Spanking reactively - hitting in anger you (universal) you are more likely to hit harder ad cause more physical damage.

Commending someone for not hitting In the face is a good step.

Yes, and odds are, it was a shocking statement and "Oh, that's good" was better than saying "WHAAAAAAT? have you lost your MIND?!"

[Hermana Linda]

I did not realize that Argentina had banned spanking.

Sent by Tapatalk from my phone

[ctab]

Just because a country has banned something doesn't mean it isn't happening especially in more rural areas.

I have always found the Catholic communities I have been a part of to be very positive parenting oriented. I have never been taught anything in my religion education, or in the catechism that advocates spanking.

Like I said, unless it is a from a homily that I can access online in whole, an encyclical, etc. I take anything this Pope is quoted saying with a huge grain of salt for the reasons previously stated. And, at the end of the day he is human, and this is not an idea that was declared dogmatically and not infallible. I can just flat out disagree with the statement and move on.

And, I don't see a single Catholic that doesn't spank doing an about face, because of this statement. Someone that already spanks may be reassured by the statement, but if they do hit there child in the face they may also rethink things as well. But, honestly the bulk of my family and friends are Catholic and this quote has barely made a blip on the radar.