Gentle Christian Mothers Community
 
Random Quotes from Wise Mamas

~* Please help keep GCM free by using our
Amazon.com affiliate link. Thank you! *~


Go Back   Gentle Christian Mothers Community > Specific Issues > Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public*
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing.
A public forum.
Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:

23. No posts harshly dissecting parenting moments of others since we desire to humbly cultivate a heart attitude of grace and not judgment towards other mamas. We all struggle at times as parents and have much to learn, and GCM's focus is to provide tools and information for each of us to parent more effectively. Posts voicing some frustration regarding choices made by others can be okay, but it needs to be within the overall context of seeking understanding or ideas for better responses in the future.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2012, 07:17 AM   #31
Zooey
Rose Trellis
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,179
Zooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond reputeZooey has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarefootBetsy View Post
I think that hitting is an instinct as well - in the heat of the moment, at least. Babies demonstrate that instinct really early on. But that's an instinct that I rejected ultimately because of my research, but also because (when one isn't in the heat of the moment), it seems to be a wrong thing to do. At least, I've been taught my entire life that hitting others is wrong, so why should there be an exception only for parents to hit tiny little children?

Does that make any sense? I'm not sure if it does or not It did in my head before I typed it out!
Yes, that does make sense, at least to me. I think this is why I am more upset (MUCH more upset) at the thought of cold-bloodedly planning out a spanking session, than at a mom (or a dad) losing her/his temper & hitting. Because I know that temptaion to violence is in me, too.
But I do see it as a temptation, even (especially?) when I see it on paper as part of a "plan" for childrearing. It would never occur to me as leading to a positive result.
__________________
"A person's a person, no matter how small"--Dr Seuss
Zooey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 08:25 AM   #32
Domina
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,642
Domina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Just to throw another wrench in the works...

My best friend is an OB nurse and she says that instant, overwhelming, amazing, I Would Kill For This Child love that hit me the moment Sumo was born is, in no way, a universal experience. She sees many, many mamas who are borderline indifferent to their new babies or see them as a nuisance from the start. So their "mama gut" or "instincts" would be a highly unreliable well to draw from in caring for their children.
__________________
~Sara~

Beaming mama to Sumo since 2010.
Addicted to , curry and my Kindle.

Martyrs make lousy lovers and party guests. ~ Michael Flocker
Domina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Domina For This Useful Post:
gracechelle (02-10-2012), rjy9343 (01-16-2012), Tasmanian Saint (01-18-2012), Zooey (01-16-2012)
Old 01-16-2012, 08:30 AM   #33
Apple-Saucy
Deactivated
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my Pants
Posts: 12,192
Apple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond reputeApple-Saucy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domina View Post
Just to throw another wrench in the works...

My best friend is an OB nurse and she says that instant, overwhelming, amazing, I Would Kill For This Child love that hit me the moment Sumo was born is, in no way, a universal experience. She sees many, many mamas who are borderline indifferent to their new babies or see them as a nuisance from the start. So their "mama gut" or "instincts" would be a highly unreliable well to draw from in caring for their children.
This makes me really angry

I fall into that category. I don't have the love at first sight thing happen. And I'm sure I appear to be indifferent to my babies. Mine have all been born by c-section and I've been on morphine. Also all of my babes have been taken to NICU regardless of if they actually needed to be in NICU or not.

You can't judge a woman's reaction to her baby child from a few hours of observation while she is recovering from birth. Especially not when you add in the after effects of pitocin, epidurals, narcotics, and surgery.

And frankly my first instinct is to make sure *i'm ok* I'm in pain and disoriented l can't move without assistance, I can't even lift my baby out of the bassinette without assistance.

Last edited by Apple-Saucy; 01-16-2012 at 08:33 AM.
Apple-Saucy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Apple-Saucy For This Useful Post:
Heather Micaela (01-16-2012), Tasmanian Saint (01-18-2012)
Old 01-16-2012, 08:38 AM   #34
Domina
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,642
Domina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond reputeDomina has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple-Saucy View Post
This makes me really angry

I fall into that category. I don't have the love at first sight thing happen. And I'm sure I appear to be indifferent to my babies. Mine have all been born by c-section and I've been on morphine. Also all of my babes have been taken to NICU regardless of if they actually needed to be in NICU or not.

You can't judge a woman's reaction to her baby child from a few hours of observation while she is recovering from birth. Especially not when you add in the after effects of pitocin, epidurals, narcotics, and surgery.

And frankly my first instinct is to make sure *i'm ok* I'm in pain and disoriented l can't move without assistance, I can't even lift my baby out of the bassinette without assistance.
No, that's a really good point. I think what my friend is saying is, you can't depend on a woman's passion for her baby to keep the baby safe, because not EVERYONE feels it right away. Could be due to medical issues, pressures in her life, drugs she's on, etc. You just don't know.

So there is some value in women having a set of principles to draw from in case the feelings take a while to kick in.

Hope I didn't hurt your feelings. That's all I was trying to say.
__________________
~Sara~

Beaming mama to Sumo since 2010.
Addicted to , curry and my Kindle.

Martyrs make lousy lovers and party guests. ~ Michael Flocker
Domina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #35
rjy9343
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 9,549
rjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domina View Post
Just to throw another wrench in the works...

My best friend is an OB nurse and she says that instant, overwhelming, amazing, I Would Kill For This Child love that hit me the moment Sumo was born is, in no way, a universal experience. She sees many, many mamas who are borderline indifferent to their new babies or see them as a nuisance from the start. So their "mama gut" or "instincts" would be a highly unreliable well to draw from in caring for their children.
I did not feel anything that close to love until Ivy was around ten weeks or so. But to say that I was indifferent or considered her a nuisance is harsh. Just because I was not totally in love with my baby as soon as I conceived her does not mean I found her to be inconvenient. Just that I needed time to get to know her and to develop a relationship with her. I also have to wonder how many new moms cover their fear by pretending they could not care less about the baby.

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
Yes, that does make sense, at least to me. I think this is why I am more upset (MUCH more upset) at the thought of cold-bloodedly planning out a spanking session, than at a mom (or a dad) losing her/his temper & hitting. Because I know that temptaion to violence is in me, too.
But I do see it as a temptation, even (especially?) when I see it on paper as part of a "plan" for childrearing. It would never occur to me as leading to a positive result.
I have to be honest. I see why parents would think it to be the best way. I heard the spanking verses my entire life and until God opened my eyes, I believed that hitting was the ONLY way to ensure you did not raise godless heathens. But it is only because I asked to God to show me his way that I was finally able to see the distortions for what they are. I am not defending hitting children, I want to make sure that is clear. And having learned what I have learned, I have to wonder how on earth the Christian psychologists and pastors can in good conscience scare parents into hitting their kids.
__________________
Rita s IstJ

Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08
Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10
mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15
Often Please forgive my frequent typos

Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!!
I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook
rjy9343 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rjy9343 For This Useful Post:
Domina (01-16-2012), Heather Micaela (01-16-2012), Zooey (01-16-2012)
Old 01-16-2012, 12:22 PM   #36
Heather Micaela
Rose Garden
 
Bar/Bat Mitzvah picture with husband Michael.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Within sight and earshot of the Disneyland fireworks
Posts: 39,961
Heather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond reputeHeather Micaela has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domina View Post
No, that's a really good point. I think what my friend is saying is, you can't depend on a woman's passion for her baby to keep the baby safe, because not EVERYONE feels it right away. Could be due to medical issues, pressures in her life, drugs she's on, etc. You just don't know.

So there is some value in women having a set of principles to draw from in case the feelings take a while to kick in.

Hope I didn't hurt your feelings. That's all I was trying to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjy9343 View Post
I did not feel anything that close to love until Ivy was around ten weeks or so. But to say that I was indifferent or considered her a nuisance is harsh. Just because I was not totally in love with my baby as soon as I conceived her does not mean I found her to be inconvenient. Just that I needed time to get to know her and to develop a relationship with her. I also have to wonder how many new moms cover their fear by pretending they could not care less about the baby.
I have had both medicated and natural births. I have not had that instant connection with ANY of my babies - even the one that I tried so hard to concieve after two losses and had 100% natural birth with and picked the most family orineted name of all of mine for. But seconds after her birth i was already protecting her insisting they not give her the Hep B shot that I disagree with. I can know to protect and care for my child and GIVE him/her love before it is a feeling
__________________
Heather

ESFJ T4 Messianic
Joshua-13
Christina- 11
Amalia Linda-8.5
Trinity-7
Gabriel-5
w/ADHD, ASD & Dyslexia
Taylor Jordan11/15/04 SkyeDakota10/12/05
Life is a pile of good things & bad things The good things don't always soften the bad things but the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things
Heather Micaela is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Heather Micaela For This Useful Post:
Daria_Aleksandrovna (01-19-2012), Domina (01-16-2012), rjy9343 (01-16-2012), Zooey (01-16-2012)
Old 01-16-2012, 01:46 PM   #37
rjy9343
Rose Garden
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 9,549
rjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond reputerjy9343 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather Micaela View Post
I have had both medicated and natural births. I have not had that instant connection with ANY of my babies - even the one that I tried so hard to concieve after two losses and had 100% natural birth with and picked the most family orineted name of all of mine for. But seconds after her birth i was already protecting her insisting they not give her the Hep B shot that I disagree with. I can know to protect and care for my child and GIVE him/her love before it is a feeling
Exactly, I researched everything and was ready to go to war to protect Ivy before she was born and after her birth. You don't need to feel something to know that you need to protect them.
__________________
Rita s IstJ

Wife to my brilliant geek James iNtJ since 4/08
Mom to our angel boy Jay 5/08 our quirky miracle DD Ivy 6/10
mellow miracle DS Jacob 7/15
Often Please forgive my frequent typos

Standing firmly on Team Lioness!!! Roar!!!
I am ready for people to know I am a GCM find me on Facebook
rjy9343 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rjy9343 For This Useful Post:
Heather Micaela (01-16-2012)
Old 01-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #38
Tasmanian Saint
Rose Trellis
I support GCM!
 
Go Team Lioness!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: This side of the black stump
Posts: 2,259
Tasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond reputeTasmanian Saint has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Common sense and intuition

I used to say that I ave no instincts, now I think I'd say I have trouble telling the difference between instincts and social programming. The thing is, what do you do if *all* options feel wrong? It feels wrong to leave my baby to cry *and* it feels wrong to disregard my father's advice that 'it won't hurt her'...
In fact, there are multiple instincts at play, in opposition to each other: One of the world's most basic/universal behaviours/values is respect for (perceived) authority. So if a respected friend/relative/pastor gives you a book telling you that it's *the* way, and the book makes that claim as well - and in choosing to read it, you're kind of placing yourself under its authority - then you've got an instinct-to-obey fighting your Mama instincts, if you even notice them. Then we're programmed to place the tribe above our individual instincts because being part of the group is so important to survival, so if everyone else around you is doing it, that's another instinct you need to fight. Even those of us who are attracted to 'alternative', counter-cultural stuff may feel uncomfortable talking about those things in a hostile group... And if it's what everyone is doing, then it must be common sense, right? And the people around you won't necessarily come out and say how they *didn't* follow the advice and in what ways they let their common sense prevail - they may not even be aware of it themselves, as others have mentioned the filter can be quite impressive - so you're left with the assumption that there's someting wrong with *you* or your child...

Probably enough rambling...
__________________
Our blossoms: DS "Little Bear" Apr '07 - The negotiator
DD "Miss Muffett" Nov '08 "Don't tell Daddy..."
DS "Mouse" Jan '12 "I Soup Baby, Man of steel! "
Myth Busting over at Dare to Disciple
"Believe in yourself. Trust your instincts. Unless your instincts are terrible." Vitruvius, The LEGO Movie.
Tasmanian Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Tasmanian Saint For This Useful Post:
Daria_Aleksandrovna (01-19-2012), gracechelle (02-10-2012), kbchavez (01-19-2012), LilacPhoenix (01-19-2012), rjy9343 (01-19-2012)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:56 AM.


A variety of opinions and ideas are shared on GCM. Personal experiences, suggestions, and tips found here are in no way intended to substitute for medical counsel from a healthcare professional. Always use your own good judgement and seek professional advice when in doubt about a health concern.

Amazon.com affiliate link

Copyright 1997-2017 by Gentle Christian Mothers™
An alternative-minded, evangelical Christian community supporting attachment parenting and natural living.

Do not post content elsewhere.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/

Some smilies created and copyrighted by Mazeguy.
Some smilies and avatars created and copyrighted by flowermama and children -- do not use elsewhere.

Soli Deo Gloria
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ~ Romans 16:27 (KJV)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.