Pearls inconsistencies

Someone on another list pointed this one out. . .one I hadn't even picked up on even after reading it at least 5 times ( ). Pearl talks about whipping a 4 month old child. A 4 month old child who was crawling and trying to climb up the stairs. And how she stood and bent over and presented her little diaper covered hiney -- he said that was all cute and everything, but you *still had to* whip her (sans diaper). Ok. . and weird that I never picked up on it. . .but. . . anyone else have a 4 month old babe crawling? Trying to climb stairs? Standing up and bending over to stick her hiney in the air? Anyone?

I would read his stuff again and make a list. .. but, I'm sooo afraid I'd get sucked in. I wish I had had a list like that, though, to give to Mandy!

[hsgbdmama]

Good point ... neither of mine were even rolling at that point. Although a family my parents were friends with had their firstborn **walking** at SIX MONTHS (but nevermind the kid's eye-hand coordination and fine motor skills were non-existant ) -- it was one of those "brag" things. Maybe it was a similar thing?

[MarynMunchkins]

I've always found that strange. :/

Well, the age and developmental ability of the child in question can't be proven or disproven.

If I were going to make a list, I would focus more on the inconsistencies in their actual philosophy.

(All the "nice" stuff they preach versus everything else that totally contradicts it.)

Ann's article touched on a few, and there are tons more. I remember being a bit confused about what they actually expected from boys. On one hand, MP talks about boys' need to move and jump around, etc. and--from a homeschooling perspective--says they shouldn't be sitting for long periods of time. (I'm guessing, but I think he said breaks every 15 min. ) Then he brags about how they would sit like statues for hours if he told them to (how would he know and why would he try if he really believed it was bad for them?) and talks about how very young kids can and should sit quietly and be well behaved during church services (which seemed to contradict what he said about boys and needing to move).

He talks a lot about respect and about not overwhelming the child with physical force... about forming strong ties and listening to them... about all sorts of great things... and then he teaches a disciplinary strategy that absolutely cannot coexist with those ideas.

When I first read Ann's article, I was nodding my head in agreement when she talked about her own confusion and blamed it on Pearl's lack of clarity. As I've thought more about it, I have to disagree with her just a tad. If we say something just "lacks clarity" then we are implying that the confusion could be cleared up and everything would make sense and fit together IF ONLY the ideas were explained in a better way (which is the thinking of some people who apologetically defend him) That's not the case with TTUAC et al. Micheal Pearl expresses his disciplinary ideas in plain language and gives numerous examples to illustrate them. He's not vague, and he doesn't leave himself much wiggle room. His ideas are not merely lacking in clarity, they are outright contradictory.

[at home momma]

my oldest dd was crawling very late in her 4th month or early early in her 5th. she sat up the day she turned 5 months. she was standing up at the end of 5 mo, cruising the furniture at 6 and a half months and walking by 9 months. running at a yr.

so it IS possible.

i got my copy of TTUAC to check, and the story of the child who 'presented her hiney' was about an older different child who 'spanked' her own bottom. MP says yes that's cute and all, but the parents should spank anyway.

In all fairness, their NGJ books are specific letters addressed to specific situations, so the advice could conceiveably be different for each case.

at home momma

my oldest dd was crawling very late in her 4th month or early early in her 5th. she sat up the day she turned 5 months. she was standing up at the end of 5 mo, cruising the furniture at 6 and a half months and walking by 9 months. running at a yr.

so it IS possible.

That's why I would focus on disputing their *deeply* flawed philosophies instead of particular details.

In all fairness, their NGJ books are specific letters addressed to specific situations, so the advice could conceiveably be different for each case.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how that is relevant. (ok, tbh, I'm not even sure what point you're making.. maybe you can clarify? )

His disciplinary tactics--both the general concepts and the many specific examples he gives--lean toward and often directly constitute emotional, spiritual, and/or physical abuse. Also, he published these select examples *as supplemental books* representative of his general disciplinary philosophy. He most certainly believes in spanking babes as young and younger than 4 months, as can be demonstrated by other excerpts from his writings.

[DogwoodMama]

at home momma I don't really understand your point.

[at home momma]

They might give different advice on similar situations. Different advice for different letters, etc. that might be one reason for a percieved inconsistency.

And before anyone asks, i am not defending their methods. Just making an observation that while they might answer a letter with "you need to do ABC" that doesn't mean they think everybody should do ABC in every situation.

at home momma

They might give different advice on similar situations. Different advice for different letters, etc. that might be one reason for a percieved inconsistency.

And before anyone asks, i am not defending their methods. Just making an observation that while they might answer a letter with "you need to do ABC" that doesn't mean they think everybody should do ABC in every situation.

Actually. . . .yes they do. It's a "one size fits all" thing with them. . . . .whipping. And it was one of their children, I believe (if I remember right).

I apologize if that sounded snippy. I'm still trying to recover from the damage of that kind of mindset. . . .and I *didn't* have a good day . .... and, to me, right now, with my mindset, with what's happened today. . . .it *does* sound a little like you're trying to defend them.

[at home momma]

sorry i upset you. I am a major perfectionist, and enjoy researching. When i read things like your statements, I want to find out exactly what was said by the original authors, so that I have the correct information. It really bothers me when I try to tell someone something about someone only to be proven wrong b/c of one little thing I didn't include etc. For example if I say something to someone trying to discourage them about using Ezzo, and one piece of my information is incorrect, then that person might discount my whole story, believeing me to simply be misinformed on Ezzo. So I try to find out the exact quote, the exact thing that was said, written etc. and correct wrong impressions or statements that aren'ts exactly right. Yes the 4 month old they 'switched' was their own daughter. I looked it up. The child that stood up and presented her bottom and spanked herself was an older child, and they don't say whetehr or not it was their own. I have had people say "But that's not what it says. See, you don't know anything about blah blah blah. You are just misinformed." If I disagree with something, I want to have the correct info to present. I was just trying to help others be correctly informed. I simply didn't want misinformation out there. Again, I apologize if i upset you. I won't post anymore in this thread.

at home momma

(( at home momma ))

If I disagree with something, I want to have the correct info to present. I was just trying to help others be correctly informed. I simply didn't want misinformation out there.

It's commendable to be accurate when you present information for dissent, and it *is* important to have our facts in order. Thanks for clearing up the details of those stories.

that while they might answer a letter with "you need to do ABC" that doesn't mean they think everybody should do ABC in every situation.

I think this is what we're reacting to. While clarifying the stories is useful for getting information correct, this comes across like you're trying to "soften" the harshness of the advice they give , or suggest that they tailor their parenting approach/advice to the specific needs of different children. The only way they "tailor" their approach (based on my reading of 4 of their books) is to punish or spank in a different way from usual. (like the time Debi spanked one of her boys every day for a week whether he had been caught lying or not--just to make the point that he was a liar and lying was bad , hosing down the little boy who kept pooping in his diaper instead of letting Mommy change him, denying a potty-training child the topping on his French toast until he stopped going in his diaper, etc. )

I'm hope you'll understand why we are quick to respond to statements that offer implicit defense of punitive parenting. We have had people with punitive mindsets join this board for the express purpose of "evangelizing" members, privately encouraging moms to become more punitive, or subtly defending those whose teachings disagree with our S0F. We are very open about our stance, and very clear that this board is for supporting and teaching Moms--not for debate (except in Intense Fellowship, where we welcome open discussion of things whether or not they line up with our stated beliefs)

[erinee]

I understand, at home momma. When I read the reviews of their book at Amazon.com, their defenders love to say that the people criticizing their methods haven't actually read their book. We need to be *so* careful about being accurate, or they'll just say we haven't actually read the book for ourselves and nothing we say will hold water.

I do agree with the others -- they *are* definitely about "one-size-fits-all". They claim their punitive, behavioral methods will work on every child, every time. While they may change the details in a specific situation, it's still about whipping and absolute control. But I also understand what you're saying about being careful when giving examples from their book.

[hsgbdmama]

Plus their responses to people who write in are utterly lacking in grace or love, IMHO -- after reading Mrs. Pearl's book, most letters were answered in the tone that the writer was stupid and a failure. Stuff I have read on their website are written in a similar vein. :-( Jesus doesn't respond to us that way, and we shouldn't respond to others honestly and genuinely seeking help that way, either.

[ArmsOfLove]

just fyi, dd crawled at 4 months and took her first step at 7.